I am designing a gas burning fireplace (not wood burning). I have seen in some magazines where people have these long and narrow fireplace boxes and inside the box, instead of logs, they have pebbles or glass shards instead. Has anyone used any of these for interior use? I've looked and asked around, but haven't had any luck finding one.
They're probably mostly custom - my understanding is that it's just a gas line with a flame that can be turned on/off with a switch, similar to an outdoor firepit or broiler... Depending on what you were making the box out of, you'd want to talk to metal fabricator or masonry contractor, and/or plumber (for the gas line). Also, depending on where you are it may be tricky to have something like this permitted - we haven't tried it yet in LA but my guess is they would say no and it would have to be installed after inspection (because it's not a UL tested assembly & is interior... carbon monoxide worries)
Jeez I just looked a little more closely at that link I posted and I'm embarassed - those things are taaaacky (IMO).
I suppose there is some possibility of making a cool gas/pebble/glass fireplace, but I'm just not a fan. I like wood-burning fireplaces, and was looking for a less-expensive version of he beautiful Rais Round stove when I stumbled upon that web page earlier this week.
LIBERTY BELL - Thanks for the link, that could be useful.
RUDOLPH - That's been my assumption to this point also. The inspectors here said they probably would not allow it unless it was vented like a wood burning fireplace - which I am trying to avoid venting at all (vent-free FP) to keep costs down. It does look like I could just use a vent-free box and use the stuff shown in the above mentioned place, but I would be limited to a standard size box and I want a long one.
PAPERBOY - Thanks, I've seen that also and it is cool. For this project though, the FP needs to be part of a "feature wall" that is long and rectangular and includes other built-in elements such as plasma TV, stereo equip (hidden), artwork, etc...
I would really be careful about trying to rig something non-vented up - that's the good part of inspectors being strict... I recently did a lot of research on gas-burning fireplaces, and in talking to the tech people at several different companies the box really has to be designed with a vent if you want to have gas & no glass doors. In addition, it has to be a 'b-vent', not a direct vent... still don't quite understand the difference, but these days most gas fireplaces have direct vent systems, as opposed to b-vent (while wood fireplaces are available in b-vent more often). To make a long story short, they scared me about the carbon monoxide, and you don't want that kind of liability (esp. if the clients have kids!!!) Love the look though - and, the vent itself shouldn't cost much, depending on what floor of the building you're on &/0r how close to an exterior wall, etc., but the firebox we ended up using only needed a 4" vent & the box, vent etc. went in in a few hours...
trace-just went through the exact same search as you did. those huge rocks are horrendous. and while rais makes nice boxes, their insert is not that hot and doesn't fit in with our aesthetic.
moberg in PDX is one of the better outfits for custom contrempo fire-art. pricey, but some of their projects not on the website are even hotter. if memory serves, they do a lot of the las vegas/hollywood stuff. They do UL testing as well, unlike most of the above.
there is also some ethanol burning diddy in the back of dwell. but it hasn't finished ul testing, it is, however, available on west coast.
Can someone intellectually rationalize the fire pebble look of the contemporary fireplaces? Like, why are rocks on fire, is my question? sure it looks cool, and I have a fireplace picked out that I really like, I just don't know that my client will like the fire pebbles and if I can't back it up, what am I doing proposing it?
Anything?
if it is a gas fireplace, it doesnt really matter what is on fire, correct??? you could just have a gas line and nothing burning. with gas, wood is somewhat irrelevant
Check your local code for factory built fireplaces - ours will not allow vent free gas fireplaces due to the CO and water vapor they emit into the house.
Designing a custom gas fp sounds like a nice idea, but we explored it a couple years ago - very expensive and was requiring a UL test and certification that would've cost $20K! Yes, there are some very cool gas fp in Europe, but you won't find them here in the States.
Your best bet is to use an insert style, zero clearance model (Superior, Majestic, Lennox make some decent flat black models), then design a cool surround for it.
The gas log sets are ultra-cheesy - we've done gas fp with crushed black glass and chunks of lava rock. You can get the crushed glass from here: http://www.moderustic.com/
Ecosmart is not worth it - don't waste your time or client's money. We were excited about it and had the local reps (if you can call them that) come in for a demo. We were unimpressed once we saw it in action.
Strike 1: Very small flame out of a 12"x12" stainless steel box
Strike 2: Leaving the unburned fuel in the firebox will make your house smell like a distillery or bar (maybe that's not so bad)
Ball 1: "Green" fireplace - renewable fuel
Foul Ball: Doesn't require a chimney or vent, but not recognized by building codes or inspectors either as a "Fireplace". The reps were claiming that you can get around the code by saying it's no different than burning a bunch of candles or sterno in your house - hmmm...I'm not convinced. Local codes/inspectors will make you vent it and/or put glass doors over it.
Strike 3: It costs around $5K for this tiny piece of crap that emits a small flame and not much heat...
Don't get me wrong, it's a nice idea in theory, but it's way overpriced for such a minimal impact...
we looked at ecosmart a week ago and the number one turn off, as mentioned, is the price. it's pretty much a $3K st. steel trough. surprisingly, we felt it produced enough heat and is more attractive than the kit with crushed glass piled on top of a burner. for several reasons, our client prefers to burn ethanol instead of natural gas. i'm wondering if anyone have experience with a knock-off...??
our last resort is to have our sheet metal contractor fabricate something similar...
low temperature floor heating is much nicer. you don't have to be confined to the bearskin in front of the fireplace any longer but can be much more spontaneous in the entire house without catching a cold...
to echo nwalker27 above, check out spark (again, http://www.sparkfires.com/) i used the 3' dv model in a project; i really liked the product and would quickly use it again if the application and budget might allow. also, you can design any surround for the face of the unit, making it look exactly (or completely different) from a traditional fireplace. contractor had no difficulty installing but beware: there are several states where you cannot use this product in certain applications (i cannot remember specifically which, as it did not affect my project). they have plenty of galleries/manufacturer/installation info on their website.
Oct 24, 09 2:44 pm ·
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Modern fireplace
I am designing a gas burning fireplace (not wood burning). I have seen in some magazines where people have these long and narrow fireplace boxes and inside the box, instead of logs, they have pebbles or glass shards instead. Has anyone used any of these for interior use? I've looked and asked around, but haven't had any luck finding one.
You mean, like this?
fire-n-ice
They're probably mostly custom - my understanding is that it's just a gas line with a flame that can be turned on/off with a switch, similar to an outdoor firepit or broiler... Depending on what you were making the box out of, you'd want to talk to metal fabricator or masonry contractor, and/or plumber (for the gas line). Also, depending on where you are it may be tricky to have something like this permitted - we haven't tried it yet in LA but my guess is they would say no and it would have to be installed after inspection (because it's not a UL tested assembly & is interior... carbon monoxide worries)
Jeez I just looked a little more closely at that link I posted and I'm embarassed - those things are taaaacky (IMO).
I suppose there is some possibility of making a cool gas/pebble/glass fireplace, but I'm just not a fan. I like wood-burning fireplaces, and was looking for a less-expensive version of he beautiful Rais Round stove when I stumbled upon that web page earlier this week.
Sorry.
Noura Cafe in LA...great ringside seats.
Doug Garafolo has a pretty cool fireblob
http://garofalo.a-node.net/fireorb.html
LIBERTY BELL - Thanks for the link, that could be useful.
RUDOLPH - That's been my assumption to this point also. The inspectors here said they probably would not allow it unless it was vented like a wood burning fireplace - which I am trying to avoid venting at all (vent-free FP) to keep costs down. It does look like I could just use a vent-free box and use the stuff shown in the above mentioned place, but I would be limited to a standard size box and I want a long one.
PAPERBOY - Thanks, I've seen that also and it is cool. For this project though, the FP needs to be part of a "feature wall" that is long and rectangular and includes other built-in elements such as plasma TV, stereo equip (hidden), artwork, etc...
I would really be careful about trying to rig something non-vented up - that's the good part of inspectors being strict... I recently did a lot of research on gas-burning fireplaces, and in talking to the tech people at several different companies the box really has to be designed with a vent if you want to have gas & no glass doors. In addition, it has to be a 'b-vent', not a direct vent... still don't quite understand the difference, but these days most gas fireplaces have direct vent systems, as opposed to b-vent (while wood fireplaces are available in b-vent more often). To make a long story short, they scared me about the carbon monoxide, and you don't want that kind of liability (esp. if the clients have kids!!!) Love the look though - and, the vent itself shouldn't cost much, depending on what floor of the building you're on &/0r how close to an exterior wall, etc., but the firebox we ended up using only needed a 4" vent & the box, vent etc. went in in a few hours...
Haven't read the posts....but thought my recent research could help:
http://www.barbas.com/en/
http://www.europeanhome.com/products/fireplaces/vision.htm
http://www.rasmussen.biz/fireshapes.htm
Pretty Neato, but ain't cheap:
http://www.heatnglo.com/products/fireplaces/gasFireplaceDetail.asp?f=03550
http://www.lennoxhearthproducts.com/
Look at the Vision line
http://www.raiswittus.com/
http://www.realflame.co.uk/minimalist.html
Very cool
http://www.platonicfireplaces.co.uk/
http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/products.cfm?category=11
cheesy site but sweet fireplaces:
http://www.focus-creation.com/UK/loader.html
trace-just went through the exact same search as you did. those huge rocks are horrendous. and while rais makes nice boxes, their insert is not that hot and doesn't fit in with our aesthetic.
moberg in PDX is one of the better outfits for custom contrempo fire-art. pricey, but some of their projects not on the website are even hotter. if memory serves, they do a lot of the las vegas/hollywood stuff. They do UL testing as well, unlike most of the above.
there is also some ethanol burning diddy in the back of dwell. but it hasn't finished ul testing, it is, however, available on west coast.
Can someone intellectually rationalize the fire pebble look of the contemporary fireplaces? Like, why are rocks on fire, is my question? sure it looks cool, and I have a fireplace picked out that I really like, I just don't know that my client will like the fire pebbles and if I can't back it up, what am I doing proposing it?
Anything?
strawbeary
if it is a gas fireplace, it doesnt really matter what is on fire, correct??? you could just have a gas line and nothing burning. with gas, wood is somewhat irrelevant
in my mind, a no wood fire beats a fake wood fire any day.
It's kind of a post-modern thing to me, taking the fuel out of the fire.
Through a fake log in for an added PoMo measure.
Also throw a fake log in...
Check your local code for factory built fireplaces - ours will not allow vent free gas fireplaces due to the CO and water vapor they emit into the house.
Designing a custom gas fp sounds like a nice idea, but we explored it a couple years ago - very expensive and was requiring a UL test and certification that would've cost $20K! Yes, there are some very cool gas fp in Europe, but you won't find them here in the States.
Your best bet is to use an insert style, zero clearance model (Superior, Majestic, Lennox make some decent flat black models), then design a cool surround for it.
The gas log sets are ultra-cheesy - we've done gas fp with crushed black glass and chunks of lava rock. You can get the crushed glass from here: http://www.moderustic.com/
[url=http://www.ecosmartfire.com/default.htm]ecosmart flueless fireplaces[url/]
oops
ecosmart
Yeah, I was going to recommend ecosmart also.
melivt: What's this 'moberg' thing in Portland? I'm local, and might check them out.
thanks
Ecosmart is not worth it - don't waste your time or client's money. We were excited about it and had the local reps (if you can call them that) come in for a demo. We were unimpressed once we saw it in action.
Strike 1: Very small flame out of a 12"x12" stainless steel box
Strike 2: Leaving the unburned fuel in the firebox will make your house smell like a distillery or bar (maybe that's not so bad)
Ball 1: "Green" fireplace - renewable fuel
Foul Ball: Doesn't require a chimney or vent, but not recognized by building codes or inspectors either as a "Fireplace". The reps were claiming that you can get around the code by saying it's no different than burning a bunch of candles or sterno in your house - hmmm...I'm not convinced. Local codes/inspectors will make you vent it and/or put glass doors over it.
Strike 3: It costs around $5K for this tiny piece of crap that emits a small flame and not much heat...
Don't get me wrong, it's a nice idea in theory, but it's way overpriced for such a minimal impact...
I looked at Ecosmart a while ago and I'd have to agree with the above, not much different than setting a couple cans of sterno about.
we looked at ecosmart a week ago and the number one turn off, as mentioned, is the price. it's pretty much a $3K st. steel trough. surprisingly, we felt it produced enough heat and is more attractive than the kit with crushed glass piled on top of a burner. for several reasons, our client prefers to burn ethanol instead of natural gas. i'm wondering if anyone have experience with a knock-off...??
our last resort is to have our sheet metal contractor fabricate something similar...
also, if anyone is thinking of specifying spark fires, there's a less expensive version made by a company called montigo
SPARK
http://www.sparkfires.com/
they are not cheap.
fire places are soooo second millennium AD... CENTRALAIR4LYFE.
low temperature floor heating is much nicer. you don't have to be confined to the bearskin in front of the fireplace any longer but can be much more spontaneous in the entire house without catching a cold...
Try this out, its a little more budget friendly if thats a concern. These sell for < $1000
to echo nwalker27 above, check out spark (again, http://www.sparkfires.com/) i used the 3' dv model in a project; i really liked the product and would quickly use it again if the application and budget might allow. also, you can design any surround for the face of the unit, making it look exactly (or completely different) from a traditional fireplace. contractor had no difficulty installing but beware: there are several states where you cannot use this product in certain applications (i cannot remember specifically which, as it did not affect my project). they have plenty of galleries/manufacturer/installation info on their website.
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