I also cannot type... didn't read back over that before I posted it.

that is pretty normal... i would just take a half-size/11x17 set though... and, obviously, concentrate on the sheets that you have layed out and drawn...

don't ask, just do it. It's one of those understood things that people just don't talk about.

yeah i would just take it.  I think thats pretty typical. 

They arent looking to steal the design or anything, they are looking to see what your understanding of a CD set is, and give a quick look as to its overall product.

I brought an 11x17 set of a job i was responsible for the CD set of during my internships while in school when i interviewed for my first job out of school.  The guy i interviewed with just flipped through it casually as we talked.  It helps give an idea of a type of project you worked on

Now if they ask you to leave that set with them, it might be a bit out of the ordinary.  But to just bring as an example of something you have done, is really no big deal.

definitely do NOT leave the set with them... but it is certainly ok to take it for the sake of discussion...

tis better beg forgiveness than ask permission

Since the OP established this thread as an 'ethical' question, what part of "just take 'em" represents an ethical response? Have the ethics of our profession really sunk that low? In my experience, firms typically anticipate employees wanting samples of their work for portfolio purposes. In fact, the AIA Code of Ethics requires firms to cooperate in this way. However, to take without permission, and reimbursement of printing costs, is -- by any standard -- theft. Why put yourself in an ethically compromising position if, by asking a simple question and offering to reimburse a modest cost, you can achieve what you need without ringing any alarm bells.

Thanks, quiz.

quiz, I don't see how it wouldn't raise alarm bells.

Employee-who's-looking-for-something-better: "Hey, is it ok if I print a half-set of Project X for myself?"

Employer: "Now why would you need that?"

Employee: "um, uhhhhhh..."

yeah, I think we all know how that turns out. I would say if you're concerned about print costs, which is very considerate of you and I'm sure appreciated by your employer, you could either use a set that's lying around and bring it back when you're done, or take the files and get prints from kinko's or similar.

Granted my original answer was a bit flip, but what I meant was that it's not considered unethical within the profession to gather work samples for your personal portfolio. Since doing so is not a breach of ethics, and asking would turn into an uncomfortable situation, not asking seems like the way to go.

yeah i think printing a fresh set on your current employers dime specifically for an interview is a bit unethical, though i wouldnt say its that big a deal in most situations. That would just be you being too cheap to even print out materials for your interview.  Are you printing your resume out on your current employers dime as well?

Just grab a clean set that is most likely lying around your desk, bring it home that one night before the interview, then bring it back the next day.

It's an example of your work, there is nothing unethical about using it as an example of your work

Employers know their staff want and need materials for their portfolios. Employers also know their people have employment interviews from time to time -- especially their good people. Here at our firm, we know it happens all the time and we generally know when it's happening, even when the individual never says anything specific to us. Look folks - we're just not good actors.

What's the REAL downside here? 

IMO, the worst that can happen if your employer suspects you may be interviewing is to take a moment and evaluate just how valuable you are to their operation. If they like what you do for the firm, then that may prompt them to work a little harder to keep you happy. If they aren't all that thrilled with your work, they're extremely unlikely to fire you -- why should they do something that will increase their unemployment premiums when you're probably going to leave on your own anyway?

What CAN happen is that you can get caught stealing, get fired 'for cause' and be unable to collect unemployment.

I'm not arguing that you're not entitled to have examples of your work. However, I am arguing that there's no need to sneak around and obtain those examples in a dishonest manner. You can weigh the risks and make your own decision.

Thanks for all of the responses!  as an update I ran with the consensus and took pdf copies to print on my own dime.  I even double checked with my interviewer if a half-size set of arch. dwg's only were ok and told them I wouldn't be bringing any consultants drawings.  they were perfectly ok with it and reassured me that they weren't expecting to hold on to them, just to have as a discussion point. 

i think it's totally fine for you to print a set on your employer's dime.  you contributed to the work, and you get to keep a copy for your records and portfolio.  whether you use it for an interview is irrelevant, since it will be useful to you in many other ways as well, most notably as a reference for future similar projects.

i agree with quizzical.  just ask for the dwgs.  there is no real downside.

@ elinor: "it's totally fine for you to print a set on your employer's dime.  you contributed to the work, and you get to keep a copy for your records and portfolio"

I'm still trying to process this remarkable statement. My first impression is that you're advancing a position propped up on an awfully slippery slope. Where does one draw the line between what belongs to the employer and what's an 'entitlement' to the employee.?

Isn't  your suggestion pretty much the same as saying to a factory worker at Black and Decker -- "hey, you worked on the assembly of these circular saws -- it's fine for you to sneak a few home as evidence of your contribution."

My view is that the firm pays us for our work. That pay -- and the time we spend on the job -- does not entitle us to steal office supplies, copies, plots, photographic prints or any other item in the office that strikes our fancy.

As others have said above, certainly a firm should cooperate with its staff in providing access to documents relevant to a professional portfolio. However, that does not entitle employees to take whatever they want whenever it suits their needs or wants. Quizzical has it right: bring it out in the open and deal with the topic as adults -- not as sneak thieves.

Steal enough prints and maybe you can make your own commercial building out of them!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxLJkphanN4&feature=related

stone--for the record, i am not saying that if you print a set of drawings, you are then entitled to build a building from them...or sell them to someone else to build a building, etc.  this would be stealing/infringing upon the intellectual property of the firm.  keeping a set for your own use/reference is more like keeping a record of actual experience earned...like the knowledge you have in your head after working on a project, but less likely to be forgotten...

I would just say that quizz and stone sound like they've worked for much more reasonable employers than I have. Pretty much anyone I've ever worked for would fire an employee they knew was actively looking to leave. In fact, one employer threatened to not let me have the time off to interview for grad school, because he didn't want me to go. So while I know the original poster has already made their choice, for anyone else reading this stuff I'd just encourage you to use your judgement regarding how much being open about this stuff would risk your job.

And, for the record, you're saying put the cost of that record on the employer's account - whether the employer authorizes that or not. Elinor, you're splitting hairs to suit your own ends.

a ream of 11x17 paper is what...6 bucks?  and printing 30 or 40 sheets of work you've executed is some sort of ethical crime?  come on, guys, this is just not a big deal, as long as you use it responsibly. consider it compensation for any unpaid overtime you've ever worked.

and erin's right...most employers aren't very forgiving about an employee's intent to leave.  it's important to keep things in perspective here, and protect yourselves a little bit.  your future is more important than your current employer's $2.50...

this reminds me of the time in high school when i applied for a job at a chain clothing store and they made me take one of those ethics tests, with questions like 'what color is cocaine, red, white, or blue?' (still not sure what the 'right' answer to that one was...is it better to know or not to know?).  another question was 'i think taking a pen home from the office is not a big deal', true or false.  so i said 'true', and had to have a 10 min. conversation with the manager about it.  well, i still don't think taking a pen home from the office is a big deal.....if i said i did, i would be lying.  and that would be unethical.  :)

and sorry for third post, but here is a problem with which i've been struggling lately:  i worked at a large office that did a lot of work that was considered confidential.  two major projects i worked on had strict requirements for keeping the information secret, for anti-terrorism reasons.  these projects account for about 1-1.5 years of my experience. two other projects were confidential for other reasons...the client didn't want to disclose their involvement, for whatever reason.  so i don't work there anymore, and have interviewed for other jobs since.  i've been asked several times to show construction drawings...one guy got all suspicious and pissed off when i refused, although i'm sure he wouldn't be too happy if someone showed his confidential cds around to firms after they left.

anyway, i don't really have a problem editing the work and showing some sort of vague version at interviews, but it does bother me to send some of this work out (not construction drawings, but renderings of projects that may still be in the pipeline or were put on hold) in an email as part of my professional work sample. i feel like i'm throwing it out there and making it public in ways i can't really control.  the problem is, if i don't, i have very little to show other than student work done 10+ years ago.  so.... ?

i'm really not comfortable with how we have to send our (and our employers') design work out into the void these days...i feel like, well, that's what the interview is supposed to be for...

Erin: yes, I have always managed to work for some pretty reasonable employers. My own experience, compared to what I read about here on Archinect, generally has been positive. Coming up in the profession, my employers always seemed to treat me, and my colleagues, as grown ups and we, in turn, tried to act that way ourselves. Mutual respect and trust always seemed to be a part of the deal.

Now that I own my own firm, I try to operate in that same mode. As elinor states, the cost of B&W copies generally isn't that much so, when employees ask about obtaining copies of their work product for their portfolios, I always tell them to charge the copies to our overhead acccount, unless we're talking about large quantities of color reproductions. Then, we just ask for reimbursement of our actual costs..

However, I do confess that it makes me uncomfortable when I become aware of staff sneaking around to obtain copies that -- had they asked -- we graciously would have authorized. Once, we had an employee who sneaked into our marketing office -- at night and on the weekend -- to swipe color photographs for her portfolio. That always left a very unpleasant taste in my mouth and I never trusted her after that.

IMO - just ask for a half-size set "for your record."  even if you don't end up leaving it's useful to keep around at your desk for reference - typically you'd want a copy during the end of each phase of the project anyway.  unless they explicitly say they don't want it leaving the office, then I think it's understood that there is a possibility you might take it along to an interview.

besides - if those drawings have been filed for a building permit, then they're likely safe to show to other architects because they're already available to the public. 

I think if you are going for a generally low level, entry level type position is the only time bringing a set of CDs would make any sense at all.  If you are any higher up, your resume and references should speak for themself and bringing a cd set probably has as much weight as letting them know you can use AutoCAD.

If you cant print out a set of 11x17 on your own at Kinkos, then you are just being overly cheap.  If you are sneaking around the office after hours printing a bunch of stuff on the company's dime just to save yourself $20 so you can then leave the company, its mildly unethical, but mainly just pathetic and petty.

I think its a good point about what type of project you bring though, as anything confidential (and i mean really confidential, not some client who thinks they are) isnt the best to bring.  Thats an unfortunate situation if that is your only work, but i think that falls into the unethical category.  Bringing a CD set of an elementary school isnt something that should be considered confidential.

Again though, if the interviewer is just casually flipping through the set to see that it looks like a basic CD set, then you are fine pretty much no matter what you bring.  If they are taking notes on something in the drawings, and asking incredibly specific questions about the project that had little to do with what you did or make copies of it, then maybe there is something up.  I doubt that happens in 99.999999% of the interviews though.