Vancouver is an exciting place to be right now. The market is the hottest in Canada, mabey even north america. Yet perhaps, it is overlooked from the simple fact that its period of growth has been over a considerable period of time, although it has excellerated as of late.
Latest I heard is that Calgary is the fastest growing city in Canada.
My friends in Canada all complain that Vancouver is expensive and overrated. I'm told Victoria is the place to be, but that's neither here nor there.
I don't think sprouting residential towers is exclusive to a small group of cities. South Flordia has been building like crazy. There always seems to be at least half-dozen towers going up in Chicago. Here in Minneapolis residential towers are going up everywhere. Practically every large city in N. America you see this. It's just a sign-of-the-times and not necessairly linked to fast growing populations.
While residential towers are being built everywhere Vancouver seems to be somewhat unique in the sheer number of them .... and the degree to which they dominate the skyline. It's certainly alone in Canada in this regard and most likely North America. It's often stated that the downtown peninsula of Vancouver is the second densest residential area in N. America after Manhattan.
The relation to Florida is interesting ... they're both recreation hotspots.
I would argue that both places are retirement hotspots. Several years ago I was having a conversation with a Chicago building official. At the time he had several proposals in his office for 50+ story high condo towers. When/if completed the units would run upwards of $500k. This seems to be uniform around the country, and Canada included I imagine. The building official told me these developers are selling almost exclusively to retirees that sold the suburban house or the trendy yuppies, dinks, etc. that don't have kids. Things that make a dense urban area great, like diversification, don't exist in these new condo towers. While I like dense urban areas, and applaud cities that accomplish this, I'm not a fan of the developers that have only profits on their mind, and likely not the goal of making the city truly great.
Vancouver, Victoria, and all of British Columbia are definiteley big as retirement destinations. Also propelling condo develop in these 'desirable' locations are the global wealthy buying third, fourth, and fifth homes as investments and pied a terres. A phenomenon shaping development everywhere.
What you say about diversification is true ... and Vancouver, like Dubai, and like the new Shanghai, lack it as these towers are catered to very specific demographics.
BTW ... the developers of New York had ONLY profit on their minds yet that city is one of the greatest locations of diversity in the history of civilization. Vancouver, by contrast, has an extremely powerful City Planning Department that controls how the city is developed.
Nathaniel .... if your looking for a nickel bag or a hit of Meth I suppose.
Lots of good stuff going on. Any locals been to the west-coast moderism shows in a couple of West Van galleries. Mostly residential scale but still important works for around these parts.
Oh and for everyone else ....its raining! Just want to make sure too many of you don't decide to flock out to Vangroovy, because its always raining. ( at least that's what we'd like you to think.)
Ask Paul what Victoria's like I seem to recal he might of spent a few years there! Good place for tea and scones at least. I was there last spring and thought it tended to have a pretty touristy feel, and i know what that's like.
I wouldn't doubt that Main Street and Hastings is on the verge of being developed in the next 10 years. Isn't there a huge old department store around the corner that was recently purchased by a foreign developer?
The City is actively encouraging the development of the Downtown Eastside. Let's hope people get their shit together and don't repeat Coal Harbor, False Creek, etc. Not that I particularly dislike those areas it's just that it's all you see now ... Variety Please.
Gasp, Yes its the old Woodward's department store soon to become a fairly large mixed -use commercial / residential project. It pretty much borders the edge of what once was skid row. It will be a big trigger to future re-development in the area.
Olympics are driving a ton of new work directly and indirectly. We are seeing a ton new work all indirectly related to Olympic fever. Expected to continue for a few years ( make hay when you can ). Everybody is busy, both consultants and trades, expected to be a problem in the next few years if it isn't already. Anybody looking for work shouldn't have too much of a problem, I know of three firms in the my neck of the woods ( quite literally ) that need people. The best part is that I see a distinct lack grinding of fees, actually get to work to a realistic schedule of fees. ...Nice!
whistler - yes, i grew up in victoria (spent lots of time in whistler too, we had a house in snowy creek).
victoria - beautiful small town (pop. around 300,000), looking back now one of the best places to raise kids (or be a kid). very few 20-40 year olds and a horrible job market. lots of kids and retired people (coined "the city of the newly wed and nearly dead"). a little too slow for me personally, but such a great escape from LA to go visit family. developers are going nuts right now with luxury suburban developments and golf courses. lots of land for the city to expand but i'm not sure if victoria has the infrastructure to become a big city.
vancouver - one of my favorite cities in the world. if it didn't rain so much i would probably try to convince my wife to move there. a great mix of urban/community spaces - lots of hiking/biking trails, parks, good public transit... ocean and mountains everywhere you look. it's also a very social city with a fun night life. the old expo 86 site is now completely crammed with high rise condos and it doesn't seem that Vancouver is going to stop the rapid development any time soon. home to archinect favorite patkau architects.
I'm a tower factory designing a ton of residential highrise in Vancouver. (At least that's how I feel some times) THe big trends I'm seeing are as follows:
Most of the downtown sites have been bought, planned and either developed or are in the process of being developed. COncord Pacific has finished off with what they have been touting as the last water front condos. All that's left is one little area left that Erickson is doing a twisty tower on - Very pricey stuff. This leaves only more marginal non view sites, and more outlying areas. WIth the high price of construction and marginal sites, the trend seems to be to build smaller and more expensive.
Also the South Side of False creek, (More waterfront property) Is just starting to get busy, with a masterplan finished and a ton of new projects slated to get started. The Election coming up will have some impact on this area, both mayoral candidates have different views on how this area should proceed.
vancouver is a great city to live in, basically i'm biased since i used to live there, but...
its very diverse, alot of asians, it feels like half the people you see are asian, great restaurants, some of the best food in north america, beautiful views of mountains as a backdrop for urban life, a wide variety of beautiful beaches, people are environmentally conscious... green design is kindof a big interest
some cool architecture firms... big and small... there are some smaller less known firms, they are hiring alot right now, alot of building going on right now... alot of stuff is for the 2010 olympics
its the city with the largest population of foreign students studying in language schools anywhere in north america, so alot of japanese and koreans there...
there are ski mountains-- grouse and cypress-- that are really close to downtown, and you can get deals on seasonal lift passes for a little over $200 Canadian, so people working downtown can go snowboarding or skiing every day after work. of course, tehres also whistler which you can go to on the weekends which has north america's largest ski facility... second in the world
great parks and beaches, lots of community... it was rated the best city in the world to live in a number of international rankings...
Since I sleep with a Candian every night I asked her what's up with Vancouver. She says all the recent growth is all thanks to the Olympics in '10. As far as the real economy growth in Canada, it's Alberta's time to shine. If you haven't been to Calgary recently you really are missing out of an 21st century boom town. Granted, they are growing more out than up. Then again, I'd take their few snowstorms over the rain of Vancouver. (Canada skiing is all the same to me...none of it equals Vail...sorry Whistler)
As far as Vancouver, I'm interested in what the real business growth is in that city. As I watch property values increase here in the midwest, I always look to see where the business economy is growing. No major corporations here are gowing. Nowhere in N. America are companies seeing double digit growth like residential markets are seeing. What's going to sustain the growth? That's what I'd ask of Vancouver. My inclination is more of the growth is speculative than anything else. See all the news about south Florida. I think both Vancouver and Miami have similar problems. Overbuilt real estate markets. At least Alberta has a booming energy economy. What does BC have? What are all these new residents going to do?
A, you're totally bang on the money. Vancouver is the northwest rainforest version of Miami's beach volleyball resortism. There is no significant business growth. It's resort urbanism.
Check the following article out ... really interesting:
IMO Vancouver now has the ugliest skyline in North America (ex. Mexico), especially when seen approaching from the Granville St. Bridge: choked full of cheaply-built, ugly, discordant condo towers in the worst tradition of, say, the worst parts of Hong Kong. Such a shame, given the exquisite, natural setting of the city.
innes.... care to elaborate! Comments like that don't go unchallenged without some due diligence, research, or review of the beans you got to spill.
Or is it you've been reading The Province front page too much!
I think more people commute out of the city than do those commuting in.
The Woodward's project is a block from where I now live and will undoubtedly become the future model for the redevelopment of the Downtown East Side. I've become intensely critical of the project since my recent move to the neighborhood and my ire only grows stronger each day it seems. Much because I can't think of a way to handle the issues and situations better, I suppose. You can find out more about the project here.
It would have been great if a project had been put forth that actually reflected the specific urban and built conditions of the DTES/Gastown/Hastings area [because it is truely a very different world from the rest of urbanized Vancouver] instead of yet another cut-and-paste tower and podium development that wouldn't have been any different if it'd been in Coal Harbor, Yaletown, or the north shore of False Creek.
And don't believe anything about "restoration" or "heritage" on the city's webpage. "Heritage" in Vancouver is one of the most questionable forms of "preservation" I've ever seen a city engaged in. Which is not to say there aren't some gorgeous examples, it's just that I think most of the bad ones seem to arise when the city pushes extra hard for it. I really dislike 'fascadism.' And while the city mentions that the tower is "...inspired by the scale and construction methods of the turn-of-the-century Dominion Building at Cambie and Hastings," what they fail to make clear is that it actually ended up being four times larger than the Dominion Building and between 5-10 times larger than the surrounding context--utterly and completely out of scale with the surrounding urban conditions.
It all comes down to the vast, innumerable opportunities that only Vancouver has to engage in truely visionary urbanism. It's at the most amazing confluence of North American, European, and Asian cultures; juxtaposed between natural and man-made landscapes and infrastructures (and all those spaces inbetween). And it all seems to be intersecting at that time in the city's development where it can actually push beyond what has already been done and make fundamental changes not only to itself, but to the model of what urban landscapes should be. Instead, the city's just doing what it's been doing for decades. I've never lived or visited anywhere that was so diverse and fun while being homogenous and boring at the same time.
I love this city a great deal, but I know it could be so much more...
Right now, Vancouver is Canada's third largest city behind Toronto and Montreal, at about 2 and a half million in the greater vancouver area... At one time, experts predicted that it would become the largest city in Canada in 2040 with 10 million people, but that was an inflated number based on a huge expected exodus of people from hong kong which never really came.
Vancouver's primary industry is forestry and lumber... Its one of the world leaders in wood product... The second largest industry is tourism... It's also the third largest film production city in the world... mostly american tv and film...
It's Canada's largest port city... A major North American gateway for pan pacific trade... The port has the highest volume of annual foreign exports of any north american city, and also the largest cargo volume of any city on the west coast... with the growing importance of Asian industry and trade the next few decades, who knows how much growth we'll see...
I live in central downtown Vancouver - in an anonymous steel and glass tower. I have watched all the new towers be erected in the last 3 years.
A visiting friend put it well when upon crossing the Granville Bridge she asked if the towers are being built or being demolished? [she has no affiliation with design or construction]
I am a bit confused by earlier comments on the thread about Vancouver being a retirement mecca. I don't quite see that. More appropriately perhaps is Vancouver as Asia's Switzerland. Most of the new condos and apartments are being purchased by absentee Asian investors, and often occupied by their well funded 18 year old sons and daughters who spend their days cruising the streets in their BMW's or shopping on Robson Street.
Basically, Vancouver has been one big planning experiment, and in some regards has turned into a self-interested little utopia of towers in a park. It has somehow escaped any type of highway or freeway infrastructure - giving it a continuous urban fabric.
Name any other North American city that can boast these claims, and then we can stop asking what's up with Vancouver.
Having been born, raised, and schooled in Vancouver its a city that has had a profound effect on my work ( good and bad ). I think it, as a city, has recognized what it wants to be as they say and has been growing up very rapidly. As a person it would be seen to be a Teenager, expressing itself, not without faults, and discovering how it wants to be seen within the world, a little flashy, a little naive but grounded in some great planning principles that respect its "place".
geno - I would say that Portland, OR is a similar "big planning experiment" with much different results over the past 25 years.
Also thanks Brink for the info about Vacouver and business. A city lives and dies by their trade. One thing to note is that Canada has enjoyed a lot of foreign investment and growth thanks to a weak currency. Well, if you haven't checked lately the Canadian doller is almost on par with the US dollar. That could have a large backlash on a city that thrives on tourism and Hollywood. At least you got lumber, so long as there are forests left.
I don't want to overplay the problems Vancouver faces because I think the city's great. But I agree with A's concerns, the economic backbone of the city is vital to it's viability as a vibrant location.
Did anyone read the Trevor Boddy article I linked to in an earlier post?
There has been almost NO office space built in the city in a LONG time. Business is not growing in Vancouver ... and in a ratio with residential use it's shrinking fast. As Boddy says, the city has been Whistlerized.
BRink ... what you say glosses over the fundamental econonomics of the city. Let's take forestry. While British Columbia is a major forest products resevoir most of the companies that lead the industry have moved their head offices out of the city. For instance, MacMillan Bloedel, the grand daddy of coorporate Vancouver and Canada's leading forestry company was bought by American Weyerhaeuser Co. ... effectively relocating all important decisions and profits south of the border.
When you look at the top 500 list of Canadian companies it's embarrassing how few are located in Vancouver.
Such a shame. YVR has imo by far the best natural setting of any NA city (ok, a bit less rain and grey would be nice). The haphazard, cheap-quality condo development going on is heartbreaking to watch.
On the econ front, I always like to point to Seattle for comparison. 30 years ago the cities were virtual mirror images (save for Boeing), both being heavily dependent on the natural resources industry. Now look at the differences. Seattle is abuzz with vitality, from the evil empire (with all its many hi-tech spinoffs) to biotech to coffee to eBiz. Vancouver? Other than the influx of Asian $ which went mostly into real estate, it's econ base is no different from 30 years ago.
I don't intend to sound anti-Vancouver, but cypress seems to have gotten my point. I have similar concerns with many cities in the states as well. One could mirror my sentiments on the Why Not to Move to NYC thread, or Boston, or every worst city for businesses which I linked here
In Canada I've seen real economic growth in Alberta with the rising oil & gas industry. In Vacouver I saw a lot of residential construction but little to back it up. If all the construction is just condos attempting to turn BC into Canada's version of Florida, that's fine. Getting back to the original post I'd just argue it's a city rising on a much different foundation than the cities in China.
True. I would love to see more entrepreneurial energy in Vancouver.
I think precisely because of the natural beauty people are more complacent about ... and this shows in the architecture and urbanism. There should be a new slogan: "It's not just about the landscape anymore."
It is a shame. But hopefully the transition from teenager to adulthood will bring about a new age of more mature thinking.
A-
when and for how long did you live in Vancouver?
Cypress -
you hit the nail on the head. the strange thing is that it's not just complacency, but a deep fear of individualism and boldness. for some reason it has sunk it's talons into everything Vancouver.
At one time, Microsoft was considering building its headquarters in Burnaby, BC instead of Redmond, WA... Although it might have just been talk though-- Microsoft playing that line as leverage in their negotiations with Seattle and the city of Redmond. It's interesting to think how things would have been different...
As far as comparisons with Seattle go, Vancouver is more the tourist destination, it's less built up than Seattle, Vancouver is located on a river delta and the mountains are right up against the city... It's scenic and urban... It had different cards, and it played its cards differently, but not necessarily in a bad way... Preserving view corridors and public beaches... Part of the vitality of Vancouver's downtown comes from its urban structure, for example, there is no large highway running by the downtown core. At one time there was a proposal to run a large highway into the downtown core... That might have generated some necessary infrastructure for growth, but it would have completely changed the nature of the city, it might not have the vitality it has now...
Sure, business wise, Seattle has the IT that came with microsoft, but as far as urban life goes, Redmond / Bellevue are not really bustling with life... They're more like large strip malls and dead quiet corporate offices in the forest. Vitality and money aren't the same thing...
Seattle is a great city, both cities have their own thing going, they're just different...
geno - I've never lived in Vancouver but have visited, most recently this past May. My friend who was working there moved south to Portland but I still have several friends at UBC.
Vancouver's beaches, views, lack of mega freeways bisecting the city ... NOONE would ever argue the great merits of these things.
But Vancouver doesn't only have to be a tourist destination bRink. It doesn't have to be in the cards. If we could bring together the entrepreneurial energy of, say, seattle with the care of stewardship of the landscape in Vancouver .... then we would have a great city.
It's not by chance that Seattle got OMA's Public Library and we got Moshe Safdie's PoMo Colliseum.
Vancouver's beaches, views, lack of mega freeways bisecting the city ... NOONE would ever argue the great merits of these things.
But Vancouver doesn't only have to be a tourist destination bRink. It doesn't have to be in the cards. If we could bring together the entrepreneurial energy of, say, seattle with the care of stewardship of the landscape in Vancouver .... then we would have a great city.
It's not by chance that Seattle got OMA's Public Library and we got Moshe Safdie's PoMo Colliseum.
Damn cypress. You summed up in three lines what I very ineffectively said in 4 paragraphs...
My question, though, is who are the complacent people?
And the issue of economics is rather interesting. This place is choke full of little, itty, bitty 'boutique' design firms [for everything from clothes to homes to those massive explosions you see on TV]. Some are quite deliberately temporary--especially those in the film industry. There's a great many smaller info/tech/web firms here as well. I wouldn't be surprised if MicroSoft had considered Burnaby in looking for a home. It'd be fun to see all the 'blue shirts' swarming Vancouver's streets.
It seems like a matter of scale. There's a lot of diversity in Vancouver's economy, it's just at such a small and highly specialized scale, that instead of forming a clear, well-defined picture, you see nothing but static.
Vancouver was always very small - Think the Beachcombers. It has just exploded with residential towers. All sold out - Most lived in (Except Coal Harbour towers). To me this indicates a certain change that will occure. The streets used to be empty at night. Now even a rainy cold october night will see non stop action on its main streets. I think that when this many people start to live in a place, more culture will definitely follow.
To be honest, I just don't see the "nature" thing as a bad thing, or as a hindrance to growth... Its another industry. Why does economic development have to be at the expense of environment? I like Vancouver precisely because it's not like just another north american city...
In an odd way, "nature" is a kind of business too... Ironically, tourism is what "preserves" all of these great natural elements in the urban setting... The best way to keep something is to know how to sell it... Without a kind of entrepreneurship, these things lose alot of their value, and in a competitive capitalist environment, where value is not tied to money things often get tossed aside in the face of short sighted gains... It's the "build a highway along the waterfront" syndrome, or the "fill in the harbour to make new valuable property" syndrome...
Once you lose it, it's gone... No city can go back and buy some of what Vancouver has... But Vancouver can always get some of what other cities have... And it can learn from others and be innovative and smart about urban growth. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I'm more inclined to think "raw" is good... "Dropping big corporate headquarters on your city" is not the same thing as entrepreneurship...
I think square footage of office space is less important than cultural diversity and vitality, something that is on the move in Vancouver... Economy is ultimately as much a function or people (markets and minds) as a function of capital investment... It's people growth that draws investment. The market wants residential towers now, but later it will want office space.
What's up with Vancouver?
Dubai, Shanghai, etc. Cities that grow fast get attention. What do people think about Vancouver? It's sprouting residential towers like crazy.
many in austin think vancouver is the model to emulate in terms of densification
Vancouver is an exciting place to be right now. The market is the hottest in Canada, mabey even north america. Yet perhaps, it is overlooked from the simple fact that its period of growth has been over a considerable period of time, although it has excellerated as of late.
Latest I heard is that Calgary is the fastest growing city in Canada.
My friends in Canada all complain that Vancouver is expensive and overrated. I'm told Victoria is the place to be, but that's neither here nor there.
I don't think sprouting residential towers is exclusive to a small group of cities. South Flordia has been building like crazy. There always seems to be at least half-dozen towers going up in Chicago. Here in Minneapolis residential towers are going up everywhere. Practically every large city in N. America you see this. It's just a sign-of-the-times and not necessairly linked to fast growing populations.
While residential towers are being built everywhere Vancouver seems to be somewhat unique in the sheer number of them .... and the degree to which they dominate the skyline. It's certainly alone in Canada in this regard and most likely North America. It's often stated that the downtown peninsula of Vancouver is the second densest residential area in N. America after Manhattan.
The relation to Florida is interesting ... they're both recreation hotspots.
I would argue that both places are retirement hotspots. Several years ago I was having a conversation with a Chicago building official. At the time he had several proposals in his office for 50+ story high condo towers. When/if completed the units would run upwards of $500k. This seems to be uniform around the country, and Canada included I imagine. The building official told me these developers are selling almost exclusively to retirees that sold the suburban house or the trendy yuppies, dinks, etc. that don't have kids. Things that make a dense urban area great, like diversification, don't exist in these new condo towers. While I like dense urban areas, and applaud cities that accomplish this, I'm not a fan of the developers that have only profits on their mind, and likely not the goal of making the city truly great.
Vancouver, Victoria, and all of British Columbia are definiteley big as retirement destinations. Also propelling condo develop in these 'desirable' locations are the global wealthy buying third, fourth, and fifth homes as investments and pied a terres. A phenomenon shaping development everywhere.
What you say about diversification is true ... and Vancouver, like Dubai, and like the new Shanghai, lack it as these towers are catered to very specific demographics.
BTW ... the developers of New York had ONLY profit on their minds yet that city is one of the greatest locations of diversity in the history of civilization. Vancouver, by contrast, has an extremely powerful City Planning Department that controls how the city is developed.
Main Street and Hastings is really happening these days, definitely the place to be!
What's going on??
Nathaniel .... if your looking for a nickel bag or a hit of Meth I suppose.
Lots of good stuff going on. Any locals been to the west-coast moderism shows in a couple of West Van galleries. Mostly residential scale but still important works for around these parts.
Oh and for everyone else ....its raining! Just want to make sure too many of you don't decide to flock out to Vangroovy, because its always raining. ( at least that's what we'd like you to think.)
Ask Paul what Victoria's like I seem to recal he might of spent a few years there! Good place for tea and scones at least. I was there last spring and thought it tended to have a pretty touristy feel, and i know what that's like.
so where do all ye vancouver folks work?
I wouldn't doubt that Main Street and Hastings is on the verge of being developed in the next 10 years. Isn't there a huge old department store around the corner that was recently purchased by a foreign developer?
The City is actively encouraging the development of the Downtown Eastside. Let's hope people get their shit together and don't repeat Coal Harbor, False Creek, etc. Not that I particularly dislike those areas it's just that it's all you see now ... Variety Please.
Gasp, Yes its the old Woodward's department store soon to become a fairly large mixed -use commercial / residential project. It pretty much borders the edge of what once was skid row. It will be a big trigger to future re-development in the area.
Olympics are driving a ton of new work directly and indirectly. We are seeing a ton new work all indirectly related to Olympic fever. Expected to continue for a few years ( make hay when you can ). Everybody is busy, both consultants and trades, expected to be a problem in the next few years if it isn't already. Anybody looking for work shouldn't have too much of a problem, I know of three firms in the my neck of the woods ( quite literally ) that need people. The best part is that I see a distinct lack grinding of fees, actually get to work to a realistic schedule of fees. ...Nice!
Is the new convention center going to be any good?
whistler - yes, i grew up in victoria (spent lots of time in whistler too, we had a house in snowy creek).
victoria - beautiful small town (pop. around 300,000), looking back now one of the best places to raise kids (or be a kid). very few 20-40 year olds and a horrible job market. lots of kids and retired people (coined "the city of the newly wed and nearly dead"). a little too slow for me personally, but such a great escape from LA to go visit family. developers are going nuts right now with luxury suburban developments and golf courses. lots of land for the city to expand but i'm not sure if victoria has the infrastructure to become a big city.
vancouver - one of my favorite cities in the world. if it didn't rain so much i would probably try to convince my wife to move there. a great mix of urban/community spaces - lots of hiking/biking trails, parks, good public transit... ocean and mountains everywhere you look. it's also a very social city with a fun night life. the old expo 86 site is now completely crammed with high rise condos and it doesn't seem that Vancouver is going to stop the rapid development any time soon. home to archinect favorite patkau architects.
I'm a tower factory designing a ton of residential highrise in Vancouver. (At least that's how I feel some times) THe big trends I'm seeing are as follows:
Most of the downtown sites have been bought, planned and either developed or are in the process of being developed. COncord Pacific has finished off with what they have been touting as the last water front condos. All that's left is one little area left that Erickson is doing a twisty tower on - Very pricey stuff. This leaves only more marginal non view sites, and more outlying areas. WIth the high price of construction and marginal sites, the trend seems to be to build smaller and more expensive.
Also the South Side of False creek, (More waterfront property) Is just starting to get busy, with a masterplan finished and a ton of new projects slated to get started. The Election coming up will have some impact on this area, both mayoral candidates have different views on how this area should proceed.
vancouver is a great city to live in, basically i'm biased since i used to live there, but...
its very diverse, alot of asians, it feels like half the people you see are asian, great restaurants, some of the best food in north america, beautiful views of mountains as a backdrop for urban life, a wide variety of beautiful beaches, people are environmentally conscious... green design is kindof a big interest
some cool architecture firms... big and small... there are some smaller less known firms, they are hiring alot right now, alot of building going on right now... alot of stuff is for the 2010 olympics
its the city with the largest population of foreign students studying in language schools anywhere in north america, so alot of japanese and koreans there...
there are ski mountains-- grouse and cypress-- that are really close to downtown, and you can get deals on seasonal lift passes for a little over $200 Canadian, so people working downtown can go snowboarding or skiing every day after work. of course, tehres also whistler which you can go to on the weekends which has north america's largest ski facility... second in the world
great parks and beaches, lots of community... it was rated the best city in the world to live in a number of international rankings...
Since I sleep with a Candian every night I asked her what's up with Vancouver. She says all the recent growth is all thanks to the Olympics in '10. As far as the real economy growth in Canada, it's Alberta's time to shine. If you haven't been to Calgary recently you really are missing out of an 21st century boom town. Granted, they are growing more out than up. Then again, I'd take their few snowstorms over the rain of Vancouver. (Canada skiing is all the same to me...none of it equals Vail...sorry Whistler)
As far as Vancouver, I'm interested in what the real business growth is in that city. As I watch property values increase here in the midwest, I always look to see where the business economy is growing. No major corporations here are gowing. Nowhere in N. America are companies seeing double digit growth like residential markets are seeing. What's going to sustain the growth? That's what I'd ask of Vancouver. My inclination is more of the growth is speculative than anything else. See all the news about south Florida. I think both Vancouver and Miami have similar problems. Overbuilt real estate markets. At least Alberta has a booming energy economy. What does BC have? What are all these new residents going to do?
Vancouver is no Shanghai. That's all I'm saying.
A, you're totally bang on the money. Vancouver is the northwest rainforest version of Miami's beach volleyball resortism. There is no significant business growth. It's resort urbanism.
Check the following article out ... really interesting:
http://www.archnewsnow.com/features/Feature174.htm
IMO Vancouver now has the ugliest skyline in North America (ex. Mexico), especially when seen approaching from the Granville St. Bridge: choked full of cheaply-built, ugly, discordant condo towers in the worst tradition of, say, the worst parts of Hong Kong. Such a shame, given the exquisite, natural setting of the city.
vancouver's growth is to a significant extent fuelled by illegal business.
innes.... care to elaborate! Comments like that don't go unchallenged without some due diligence, research, or review of the beans you got to spill.
Or is it you've been reading The Province front page too much!
Well, drug production is certainly an area wherethe economy is growing. Grow ops may be a new area of architectural investigation.
Oh Vancouver...
What can I say that hasn't already been said...
I think more people commute out of the city than do those commuting in.
The Woodward's project is a block from where I now live and will undoubtedly become the future model for the redevelopment of the Downtown East Side. I've become intensely critical of the project since my recent move to the neighborhood and my ire only grows stronger each day it seems. Much because I can't think of a way to handle the issues and situations better, I suppose. You can find out more about the project here.
It would have been great if a project had been put forth that actually reflected the specific urban and built conditions of the DTES/Gastown/Hastings area [because it is truely a very different world from the rest of urbanized Vancouver] instead of yet another cut-and-paste tower and podium development that wouldn't have been any different if it'd been in Coal Harbor, Yaletown, or the north shore of False Creek.
And don't believe anything about "restoration" or "heritage" on the city's webpage. "Heritage" in Vancouver is one of the most questionable forms of "preservation" I've ever seen a city engaged in. Which is not to say there aren't some gorgeous examples, it's just that I think most of the bad ones seem to arise when the city pushes extra hard for it. I really dislike 'fascadism.' And while the city mentions that the tower is "...inspired by the scale and construction methods of the turn-of-the-century Dominion Building at Cambie and Hastings," what they fail to make clear is that it actually ended up being four times larger than the Dominion Building and between 5-10 times larger than the surrounding context--utterly and completely out of scale with the surrounding urban conditions.
It all comes down to the vast, innumerable opportunities that only Vancouver has to engage in truely visionary urbanism. It's at the most amazing confluence of North American, European, and Asian cultures; juxtaposed between natural and man-made landscapes and infrastructures (and all those spaces inbetween). And it all seems to be intersecting at that time in the city's development where it can actually push beyond what has already been done and make fundamental changes not only to itself, but to the model of what urban landscapes should be. Instead, the city's just doing what it's been doing for decades. I've never lived or visited anywhere that was so diverse and fun while being homogenous and boring at the same time.
I love this city a great deal, but I know it could be so much more...
Right now, Vancouver is Canada's third largest city behind Toronto and Montreal, at about 2 and a half million in the greater vancouver area... At one time, experts predicted that it would become the largest city in Canada in 2040 with 10 million people, but that was an inflated number based on a huge expected exodus of people from hong kong which never really came.
Vancouver's primary industry is forestry and lumber... Its one of the world leaders in wood product... The second largest industry is tourism... It's also the third largest film production city in the world... mostly american tv and film...
It's Canada's largest port city... A major North American gateway for pan pacific trade... The port has the highest volume of annual foreign exports of any north american city, and also the largest cargo volume of any city on the west coast... with the growing importance of Asian industry and trade the next few decades, who knows how much growth we'll see...
I live in central downtown Vancouver - in an anonymous steel and glass tower. I have watched all the new towers be erected in the last 3 years.
A visiting friend put it well when upon crossing the Granville Bridge she asked if the towers are being built or being demolished? [she has no affiliation with design or construction]
I am a bit confused by earlier comments on the thread about Vancouver being a retirement mecca. I don't quite see that. More appropriately perhaps is Vancouver as Asia's Switzerland. Most of the new condos and apartments are being purchased by absentee Asian investors, and often occupied by their well funded 18 year old sons and daughters who spend their days cruising the streets in their BMW's or shopping on Robson Street.
Basically, Vancouver has been one big planning experiment, and in some regards has turned into a self-interested little utopia of towers in a park. It has somehow escaped any type of highway or freeway infrastructure - giving it a continuous urban fabric.
Name any other North American city that can boast these claims, and then we can stop asking what's up with Vancouver.
I concur with your thoughts geno.
Having been born, raised, and schooled in Vancouver its a city that has had a profound effect on my work ( good and bad ). I think it, as a city, has recognized what it wants to be as they say and has been growing up very rapidly. As a person it would be seen to be a Teenager, expressing itself, not without faults, and discovering how it wants to be seen within the world, a little flashy, a little naive but grounded in some great planning principles that respect its "place".
geno - I would say that Portland, OR is a similar "big planning experiment" with much different results over the past 25 years.
Also thanks Brink for the info about Vacouver and business. A city lives and dies by their trade. One thing to note is that Canada has enjoyed a lot of foreign investment and growth thanks to a weak currency. Well, if you haven't checked lately the Canadian doller is almost on par with the US dollar. That could have a large backlash on a city that thrives on tourism and Hollywood. At least you got lumber, so long as there are forests left.
I don't want to overplay the problems Vancouver faces because I think the city's great. But I agree with A's concerns, the economic backbone of the city is vital to it's viability as a vibrant location.
Did anyone read the Trevor Boddy article I linked to in an earlier post?
There has been almost NO office space built in the city in a LONG time. Business is not growing in Vancouver ... and in a ratio with residential use it's shrinking fast. As Boddy says, the city has been Whistlerized.
BRink ... what you say glosses over the fundamental econonomics of the city. Let's take forestry. While British Columbia is a major forest products resevoir most of the companies that lead the industry have moved their head offices out of the city. For instance, MacMillan Bloedel, the grand daddy of coorporate Vancouver and Canada's leading forestry company was bought by American Weyerhaeuser Co. ... effectively relocating all important decisions and profits south of the border.
When you look at the top 500 list of Canadian companies it's embarrassing how few are located in Vancouver.
Such a shame. YVR has imo by far the best natural setting of any NA city (ok, a bit less rain and grey would be nice). The haphazard, cheap-quality condo development going on is heartbreaking to watch.
On the econ front, I always like to point to Seattle for comparison. 30 years ago the cities were virtual mirror images (save for Boeing), both being heavily dependent on the natural resources industry. Now look at the differences. Seattle is abuzz with vitality, from the evil empire (with all its many hi-tech spinoffs) to biotech to coffee to eBiz. Vancouver? Other than the influx of Asian $ which went mostly into real estate, it's econ base is no different from 30 years ago.
I don't intend to sound anti-Vancouver, but cypress seems to have gotten my point. I have similar concerns with many cities in the states as well. One could mirror my sentiments on the Why Not to Move to NYC thread, or Boston, or every worst city for businesses which I linked here
In Canada I've seen real economic growth in Alberta with the rising oil & gas industry. In Vacouver I saw a lot of residential construction but little to back it up. If all the construction is just condos attempting to turn BC into Canada's version of Florida, that's fine. Getting back to the original post I'd just argue it's a city rising on a much different foundation than the cities in China.
True. I would love to see more entrepreneurial energy in Vancouver.
I think precisely because of the natural beauty people are more complacent about ... and this shows in the architecture and urbanism. There should be a new slogan: "It's not just about the landscape anymore."
It is a shame. But hopefully the transition from teenager to adulthood will bring about a new age of more mature thinking.
A-
when and for how long did you live in Vancouver?
Cypress -
you hit the nail on the head. the strange thing is that it's not just complacency, but a deep fear of individualism and boldness. for some reason it has sunk it's talons into everything Vancouver.
At one time, Microsoft was considering building its headquarters in Burnaby, BC instead of Redmond, WA... Although it might have just been talk though-- Microsoft playing that line as leverage in their negotiations with Seattle and the city of Redmond. It's interesting to think how things would have been different...
As far as comparisons with Seattle go, Vancouver is more the tourist destination, it's less built up than Seattle, Vancouver is located on a river delta and the mountains are right up against the city... It's scenic and urban... It had different cards, and it played its cards differently, but not necessarily in a bad way... Preserving view corridors and public beaches... Part of the vitality of Vancouver's downtown comes from its urban structure, for example, there is no large highway running by the downtown core. At one time there was a proposal to run a large highway into the downtown core... That might have generated some necessary infrastructure for growth, but it would have completely changed the nature of the city, it might not have the vitality it has now...
Sure, business wise, Seattle has the IT that came with microsoft, but as far as urban life goes, Redmond / Bellevue are not really bustling with life... They're more like large strip malls and dead quiet corporate offices in the forest. Vitality and money aren't the same thing...
Seattle is a great city, both cities have their own thing going, they're just different...
geno - I've never lived in Vancouver but have visited, most recently this past May. My friend who was working there moved south to Portland but I still have several friends at UBC.
Vancouver's beaches, views, lack of mega freeways bisecting the city ... NOONE would ever argue the great merits of these things.
But Vancouver doesn't only have to be a tourist destination bRink. It doesn't have to be in the cards. If we could bring together the entrepreneurial energy of, say, seattle with the care of stewardship of the landscape in Vancouver .... then we would have a great city.
It's not by chance that Seattle got OMA's Public Library and we got Moshe Safdie's PoMo Colliseum.
Vancouver's beaches, views, lack of mega freeways bisecting the city ... NOONE would ever argue the great merits of these things.
But Vancouver doesn't only have to be a tourist destination bRink. It doesn't have to be in the cards. If we could bring together the entrepreneurial energy of, say, seattle with the care of stewardship of the landscape in Vancouver .... then we would have a great city.
It's not by chance that Seattle got OMA's Public Library and we got Moshe Safdie's PoMo Colliseum.
try this
Damn cypress. You summed up in three lines what I very ineffectively said in 4 paragraphs...
My question, though, is who are the complacent people?
And the issue of economics is rather interesting. This place is choke full of little, itty, bitty 'boutique' design firms [for everything from clothes to homes to those massive explosions you see on TV]. Some are quite deliberately temporary--especially those in the film industry. There's a great many smaller info/tech/web firms here as well. I wouldn't be surprised if MicroSoft had considered Burnaby in looking for a home. It'd be fun to see all the 'blue shirts' swarming Vancouver's streets.
It seems like a matter of scale. There's a lot of diversity in Vancouver's economy, it's just at such a small and highly specialized scale, that instead of forming a clear, well-defined picture, you see nothing but static.
Vancouver was always very small - Think the Beachcombers. It has just exploded with residential towers. All sold out - Most lived in (Except Coal Harbour towers). To me this indicates a certain change that will occure. The streets used to be empty at night. Now even a rainy cold october night will see non stop action on its main streets. I think that when this many people start to live in a place, more culture will definitely follow.
To be honest, I just don't see the "nature" thing as a bad thing, or as a hindrance to growth... Its another industry. Why does economic development have to be at the expense of environment? I like Vancouver precisely because it's not like just another north american city...
In an odd way, "nature" is a kind of business too... Ironically, tourism is what "preserves" all of these great natural elements in the urban setting... The best way to keep something is to know how to sell it... Without a kind of entrepreneurship, these things lose alot of their value, and in a competitive capitalist environment, where value is not tied to money things often get tossed aside in the face of short sighted gains... It's the "build a highway along the waterfront" syndrome, or the "fill in the harbour to make new valuable property" syndrome...
Once you lose it, it's gone... No city can go back and buy some of what Vancouver has... But Vancouver can always get some of what other cities have... And it can learn from others and be innovative and smart about urban growth. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I'm more inclined to think "raw" is good... "Dropping big corporate headquarters on your city" is not the same thing as entrepreneurship...
I think square footage of office space is less important than cultural diversity and vitality, something that is on the move in Vancouver... Economy is ultimately as much a function or people (markets and minds) as a function of capital investment... It's people growth that draws investment. The market wants residential towers now, but later it will want office space.
Or you will see residential towers converted to office space!
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