no, well....some of what you said is true, that Shanghai has just begun, hmmm. maybe...what sets Shanghai apart from, say, Mumbai or Shenzhen or Lagos or Macau...all are in some state of transformation, Shanghai may garner more hype, but to say that it's "just begun." gimme some more to agree or disagree with...oh great Chairman....
fine- partly i suppose shanghai hase an incredible history as a den of depravity, freedom, vice, opium, and from that a glamorous romanitcism about it. I think that was then locked down, as the city fell into a sort of sleep. There is then this idea of a narrative defining parts of the city gives it i think far more character and potential, whereas... None of the places except macau that you mention have that sort of strange abience about them. So on one level its a historic glamour with fragments of the past that are excotic and alluring- but then is a totally futurisic city- and i mean totally. the most number of skyscrapers, a massive urban mass, hovering trains, millions entering the city every year, 24h construction sites. All of it colliding together, at all levels and all scales. Where In the mood for love/2046 meets Code 46(a brilliant film) and beautiful.
Basically incredible potential that is being realised, whereas Tokyo has been through it in a way and happenened.
yeah it seems like you could be right. on the other hand tokyo is still under construction big time. more stuff going on here than a lot of major cities in NA. And the city is finally getting kinda liveable. less smog more green, etc.
according to a colleague who is building there now supposedly there is a deadline for all the construction in beijing so the builders and so on are getting antsy. anyone know if that goes for the whole country or will the pace just keep on goin ?
I don't buy it. China is way behind in the dialogue of Contemporary Art and Architecture. face it 90% of whats being built in China is pure shit on top of shit.
Thriller- it may be behind, but certainly not way behind with contemporary art- there is an exhibition at London's V&A celebrating it and back in Beijing projects like 798 (a disused military facilty- now a massive collection of art spaces and galleries) are at the forefront of presenting something novel- with a very particular reaction to recent chinese history. Chinese artists have something to say- and are doing it very differently to what has become quite a stagnant modern art scene in the west. On architecture- yes they are producing a lot of shit- but look at american cities- are they really any different?
And on the architecture front- the next five years will be key- recently big name western architects have been employed for some massive schemes- and that has led to the creation of all sorts of testing grounds for new ideas. At least they are not afrain of big gestures and massive decisions, which while it may produce mistakes, can also be very liberating.
And apart from a few great retail spots and a few super houses there is not much great going on in Tokyo- its fundamentally a 70's/80's city where even the radical clothing styles have a certain uniformity- in that the rebellion only goes as far as the clothes. The buzz is lacking and its gone to shanghai.
On architecture- yes they are producing a lot of shit- but look at american cities- are they really any different?[/]
no, maybe they aren't, but that weakens you argument.
[i]...And on the architecture front- the next five years will be key- recently big name western architects have been employed for some massive schemes- and that has led to the creation of all sorts of testing grounds for new ideas.
I'm gonna be critical of this as well...
Xintiendi is unique (re-adaptation of the Shanghai lilong housing structure as a place for leisure / nightlife) HOWEVER, it's also a great example of EMINENT DOMAIN...
also, Nanjing Lu (the pedestrian / shopping corridor) near the bund is newly activated, but it's always been there to one degree or another, and retail corridors like are not a new idea...
finally, the Pudong financial area, while exhibiting a fair shair of skyscraper bravado, flaunting fancy hats and all...is a financial/business district primarily, and once the tourists have left at night, it's dead (as dead as any area in an Asian mega-city can be). Not a new idea. Not interesting (other than maybeaesthetically).
While I enjoy and appreciate the pedestrian area along the Pudong River, and Nanjing Lu, they do not support a notion that Shanghai is a testing ground for anything other than what has been proven to work in other parts of the world...as for most other activity in Shanghai, especially by corporate America arch firms, no thanks...
Okay then- Yes i agree that xintiandi is a bit odd taking a city remnant, filling it with overpriced shops and then polishing it so much that it looks like the thing is entirely new anyway. Pointless, odd and unremarkable too. But around that area with the demolitions still going on and skyscrapers being put up right next door there are incredible urban conditions that are starting to exist in a way that will never be found in an american city and may well be erased later from shanghai, but for me at least its very exciting now.
Nanjing lu again not a particularly wothy and interesting street, but it does act as a sort geographical linear reference point for the city, but for me far more interesting are the 6 storey express ways that take you over and the through the city in a very futuristic way.
And Pudong is pants- but thats not really the point- the incredible scale of its masterplan is clearly not human, and therefore its unsuccessful, but becomes a massive step forward for the city to rise to and the react with and against. A place of that scale and height creates an incredible sense of the density of shanghai, and quite artificial conditions. All this then is a counterbalance with the rich preservation of 30's architecture in the french concession. It's the fact that both worlds exist at once in a very real sense and collide with each other. A man hand making noodles in a machine in his living room, with a major skyscraper being built next door. Its a sort of incredible city heritage that exists partly because the difference between external influence(the west capitalism, etc) meeting what is essentially a traditional village way of life. I think its the astounding ambition and character of the city that creates this intensity, a city that refuses to follow a masterplan, that is a very difficult place to really experience, and in many ways is london in its irregular mass and irregular dense conditions. All at once it leaps in to the future, while slowly being more and more influenced by its history. There is an arts street which i forget the name of that has started to capture a modern reworking of the old city that is far more successful that xintiandi, and for the best- the yong fu elite is a fantasic example of how preservation can work.
the "art" of shanghai: suzhou creek warehouses, moganshan lu.
you simply can't look at the city as a group of neighborhoods, like NY or London. there is no "this is the snooty shopping district, this is the gentrified mall, this is the hipster enclave." people swirl everywhere and are absurdly mobile; there is an extreme heterogeneity in the lifestyles of its inhabitants, i say more so than the typical western city. the physical intermingling and tolerance between economic classes is refreshing.
i've never worked in an office in the US where a performance artist steps in from the street and presents me with communist era food stamps and the key to his house. there are intellectuals walking the streets in dirty, sweaty shirts, and you don't even realize it.
Oct 14, 05 2:03 pm ·
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TOKYO IS OVER
and SHANGHAI is it.
I'm not just talking about architecture- its about the future/ambition and the character of the city.
discuss:
(pasted from the other thread)
no, well....some of what you said is true, that Shanghai has just begun, hmmm. maybe...what sets Shanghai apart from, say, Mumbai or Shenzhen or Lagos or Macau...all are in some state of transformation, Shanghai may garner more hype, but to say that it's "just begun." gimme some more to agree or disagree with...oh great Chairman....
fine- partly i suppose shanghai hase an incredible history as a den of depravity, freedom, vice, opium, and from that a glamorous romanitcism about it. I think that was then locked down, as the city fell into a sort of sleep. There is then this idea of a narrative defining parts of the city gives it i think far more character and potential, whereas... None of the places except macau that you mention have that sort of strange abience about them. So on one level its a historic glamour with fragments of the past that are excotic and alluring- but then is a totally futurisic city- and i mean totally. the most number of skyscrapers, a massive urban mass, hovering trains, millions entering the city every year, 24h construction sites. All of it colliding together, at all levels and all scales. Where In the mood for love/2046 meets Code 46(a brilliant film) and beautiful.
Basically incredible potential that is being realised, whereas Tokyo has been through it in a way and happenened.
yeah it seems like you could be right. on the other hand tokyo is still under construction big time. more stuff going on here than a lot of major cities in NA. And the city is finally getting kinda liveable. less smog more green, etc.
according to a colleague who is building there now supposedly there is a deadline for all the construction in beijing so the builders and so on are getting antsy. anyone know if that goes for the whole country or will the pace just keep on goin ?
Good Lord, thought I'd missed a CNN Breaking News bulletin about a crazy earthquake or something.
Phew!
But now at least you can buy the t-shirt to confirm it!
link">http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=91391]link[/url]
[url=http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=91391]link[/http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=91391
[url=http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=91391]link[/http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=91391]
sorry.
I don't buy it. China is way behind in the dialogue of Contemporary Art and Architecture. face it 90% of whats being built in China is pure shit on top of shit.
No way w/ Shanghai - Luanda is 'where it's at!' GAWD I hope it is, at least for the next year. "Luanda....a city on the grrrow?
no its not
Thriller- it may be behind, but certainly not way behind with contemporary art- there is an exhibition at London's V&A celebrating it and back in Beijing projects like 798 (a disused military facilty- now a massive collection of art spaces and galleries) are at the forefront of presenting something novel- with a very particular reaction to recent chinese history. Chinese artists have something to say- and are doing it very differently to what has become quite a stagnant modern art scene in the west. On architecture- yes they are producing a lot of shit- but look at american cities- are they really any different?
And on the architecture front- the next five years will be key- recently big name western architects have been employed for some massive schemes- and that has led to the creation of all sorts of testing grounds for new ideas. At least they are not afrain of big gestures and massive decisions, which while it may produce mistakes, can also be very liberating.
And apart from a few great retail spots and a few super houses there is not much great going on in Tokyo- its fundamentally a 70's/80's city where even the radical clothing styles have a certain uniformity- in that the rebellion only goes as far as the clothes. The buzz is lacking and its gone to shanghai.
no, maybe they aren't, but that weakens you argument.
[i]...And on the architecture front- the next five years will be key- recently big name western architects have been employed for some massive schemes- and that has led to the creation of all sorts of testing grounds for new ideas.
I'm gonna be critical of this as well...
Xintiendi is unique (re-adaptation of the Shanghai lilong housing structure as a place for leisure / nightlife) HOWEVER, it's also a great example of EMINENT DOMAIN...
also, Nanjing Lu (the pedestrian / shopping corridor) near the bund is newly activated, but it's always been there to one degree or another, and retail corridors like are not a new idea...
finally, the Pudong financial area, while exhibiting a fair shair of skyscraper bravado, flaunting fancy hats and all...is a financial/business district primarily, and once the tourists have left at night, it's dead (as dead as any area in an Asian mega-city can be). Not a new idea. Not interesting (other than maybeaesthetically).
While I enjoy and appreciate the pedestrian area along the Pudong River, and Nanjing Lu, they do not support a notion that Shanghai is a testing ground for anything other than what has been proven to work in other parts of the world...as for most other activity in Shanghai, especially by corporate America arch firms, no thanks...
OOPS! my friend (plastikman33) was logged in, so the above comments should be attributed to me...my bad
....bad formatting too,
this part wasn't supposed to be italic:
"no, maybe they aren't, but that weakens your argument."
Okay then- Yes i agree that xintiandi is a bit odd taking a city remnant, filling it with overpriced shops and then polishing it so much that it looks like the thing is entirely new anyway. Pointless, odd and unremarkable too. But around that area with the demolitions still going on and skyscrapers being put up right next door there are incredible urban conditions that are starting to exist in a way that will never be found in an american city and may well be erased later from shanghai, but for me at least its very exciting now.
Nanjing lu again not a particularly wothy and interesting street, but it does act as a sort geographical linear reference point for the city, but for me far more interesting are the 6 storey express ways that take you over and the through the city in a very futuristic way.
And Pudong is pants- but thats not really the point- the incredible scale of its masterplan is clearly not human, and therefore its unsuccessful, but becomes a massive step forward for the city to rise to and the react with and against. A place of that scale and height creates an incredible sense of the density of shanghai, and quite artificial conditions. All this then is a counterbalance with the rich preservation of 30's architecture in the french concession. It's the fact that both worlds exist at once in a very real sense and collide with each other. A man hand making noodles in a machine in his living room, with a major skyscraper being built next door. Its a sort of incredible city heritage that exists partly because the difference between external influence(the west capitalism, etc) meeting what is essentially a traditional village way of life. I think its the astounding ambition and character of the city that creates this intensity, a city that refuses to follow a masterplan, that is a very difficult place to really experience, and in many ways is london in its irregular mass and irregular dense conditions. All at once it leaps in to the future, while slowly being more and more influenced by its history. There is an arts street which i forget the name of that has started to capture a modern reworking of the old city that is far more successful that xintiandi, and for the best- the yong fu elite is a fantasic example of how preservation can work.
the "art" of shanghai: suzhou creek warehouses, moganshan lu.
you simply can't look at the city as a group of neighborhoods, like NY or London. there is no "this is the snooty shopping district, this is the gentrified mall, this is the hipster enclave." people swirl everywhere and are absurdly mobile; there is an extreme heterogeneity in the lifestyles of its inhabitants, i say more so than the typical western city. the physical intermingling and tolerance between economic classes is refreshing.
i've never worked in an office in the US where a performance artist steps in from the street and presents me with communist era food stamps and the key to his house. there are intellectuals walking the streets in dirty, sweaty shirts, and you don't even realize it.
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