Any members out here working in China? What are your feelings on the building boom going on here?
i've been in Shanghai for about five months now (came from the states) and the consensus from almost every western architect that I've met that came over here for all of the 'opportunities' is that although there is an unbelievable amount of building happening here at an unprecedented scale, it's 95 percent crap. Some of the most interesting parts of the city are being torn down to make room for some of the most homogenous, hollow and invasive pieces of concrete I have ever seen. Not that this is a new occurrence, but its the speed that its all happening that blows my mind. Not to mention construction quality is nonexistent. The building I live in is a little over a year old and is already starting to fall apart.
Before I came here, looking at China from the West, everything seemed so ambitious and exciting. Now that I'm here, what is happening mostly just scares me.
maybe aesthetic is not priortized there yet. practicality and convenience come first. it's a country with lots of people and changing very fast. think of that....
When it comes to attracting international attention and international money the quaint has never done the trick. Investors prefer a homogenic "international" environment that's familiar to them, unless the quaintness and the local traditions etc are the REASONS for investing there. We see this everywhere. How Malaysian is Kuala Lumpur for instance?
In China's case the main reason for investing ofcouse isn't the Chinese culture but the number of people living there. Shanghai knows this and is ready to sell it's "soul" to be as attractive as possible. Simple as that.
I think its also important in looking backward that its probably fair to say that the fetishisation of history and historic buildings isnt nearly as important in china as in the west. in the last century the ambition of the idea of a project covers over any sense of the deliberate preservation of history- the three gorges dam is a good example- i think its true in shanghai too- that a lot of the older areas were torn down for 'progress' in all its forms. However i think more and more Shanghai is starting to mature- employing sensitive but modern restoration projects on the bund and in the french concession, Its a balance - running headlong into massive change is bound to make mistakes, but its the most exciting city in the world because of it. Goodbye Tokyo....
China has pushed up the cost of steel, in particular re-bar for concrete in the UK. Construction is much more expensive than it was before china's building boom. Shame they seem to be making our past (maybe current?) mistakes with poor quality construction and architecture.
yes totally! it is a city of the future, whereas tokyo apart form a few high profile examples is a city stuck in the age of its bubble, which has passed- yes tokyo is still exciting, but tokyo is over. shanghai has just begun!
no, well....some of what you said is true, that Shanghai has just begun, hmmm. maybe...what sets Shanghai apart from, say, Mumbai or Shenzhen or Lagos or Macau...all are in some state of transformation, Shanghai may garner more hype, but to say that it's "just begun." gimme some more to agree or disagree with...oh great Chairman.
hmmm ... china has a long history. i'd say a lot of whats built is poor quality, but it's true, ideas of preservation and history are very different from other countries. but i do believe it comes down to money, and an extreme tolerance towards money-making endeavors. developers' money is a very poweful force ...
a lot of what's done that's interesting feels more european than anything else. there's a dutch current definitely, esp amongst the housing. also, when i was working there, i remember tsinghua's architecture department linked up with an arch school in germany; they published a glossy scholarly comparison between shanghai and berlin. (which are interestingly similar).
you can capture the "china" feeling as a vast, very accessible, open frontier. it's more action, less philosophizing. (when i came back to the US, i felt like someone put the brakes on my output, and now i spend a lot of time thinking and waiting!)
you don't need a license to practice. if you go freelance, the opportunities are out there. with all the flow of capital from companies and individuals needing environments designed and built, you can see your ideas realized startlingly quickly.
I'm working over here as well, and I must say I agree with you, it is frightening to see everything that goes on here. Sadly the clients seems to be not so clueless sometimes, but the architects are.. .
likil: though the aesthetics are surely not what you are used to (except in clothes i guess...), it is not about that. It is about how to build a country. And the extremely low functional quality of the city they are building. So much money to invest, and yet noone sees more than 5 years in the future.
aemkei: It is certanly NOT as simple as that. I would say it is extremely complex. You're from Sweden btw? What part? Still study?
Oct 16, 05 2:21 pm ·
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Shanghai and China...what are we doing?
Any members out here working in China? What are your feelings on the building boom going on here?
i've been in Shanghai for about five months now (came from the states) and the consensus from almost every western architect that I've met that came over here for all of the 'opportunities' is that although there is an unbelievable amount of building happening here at an unprecedented scale, it's 95 percent crap. Some of the most interesting parts of the city are being torn down to make room for some of the most homogenous, hollow and invasive pieces of concrete I have ever seen. Not that this is a new occurrence, but its the speed that its all happening that blows my mind. Not to mention construction quality is nonexistent. The building I live in is a little over a year old and is already starting to fall apart.
Before I came here, looking at China from the West, everything seemed so ambitious and exciting. Now that I'm here, what is happening mostly just scares me.
Thoughts?
maybe aesthetic is not priortized there yet. practicality and convenience come first. it's a country with lots of people and changing very fast. think of that....
When it comes to attracting international attention and international money the quaint has never done the trick. Investors prefer a homogenic "international" environment that's familiar to them, unless the quaintness and the local traditions etc are the REASONS for investing there. We see this everywhere. How Malaysian is Kuala Lumpur for instance?
In China's case the main reason for investing ofcouse isn't the Chinese culture but the number of people living there. Shanghai knows this and is ready to sell it's "soul" to be as attractive as possible. Simple as that.
I think its also important in looking backward that its probably fair to say that the fetishisation of history and historic buildings isnt nearly as important in china as in the west. in the last century the ambition of the idea of a project covers over any sense of the deliberate preservation of history- the three gorges dam is a good example- i think its true in shanghai too- that a lot of the older areas were torn down for 'progress' in all its forms. However i think more and more Shanghai is starting to mature- employing sensitive but modern restoration projects on the bund and in the french concession, Its a balance - running headlong into massive change is bound to make mistakes, but its the most exciting city in the world because of it. Goodbye Tokyo....
China has pushed up the cost of steel, in particular re-bar for concrete in the UK. Construction is much more expensive than it was before china's building boom. Shame they seem to be making our past (maybe current?) mistakes with poor quality construction and architecture.
(more exciting that Tokyo?)
yes totally! it is a city of the future, whereas tokyo apart form a few high profile examples is a city stuck in the age of its bubble, which has passed- yes tokyo is still exciting, but tokyo is over. shanghai has just begun!
ok, maybe.
no, well....some of what you said is true, that Shanghai has just begun, hmmm. maybe...what sets Shanghai apart from, say, Mumbai or Shenzhen or Lagos or Macau...all are in some state of transformation, Shanghai may garner more hype, but to say that it's "just begun." gimme some more to agree or disagree with...oh great Chairman.
(we can do this in the new thread that you started, if you prefer)
hmmm ... china has a long history. i'd say a lot of whats built is poor quality, but it's true, ideas of preservation and history are very different from other countries. but i do believe it comes down to money, and an extreme tolerance towards money-making endeavors. developers' money is a very poweful force ...
a lot of what's done that's interesting feels more european than anything else. there's a dutch current definitely, esp amongst the housing. also, when i was working there, i remember tsinghua's architecture department linked up with an arch school in germany; they published a glossy scholarly comparison between shanghai and berlin. (which are interestingly similar).
you can capture the "china" feeling as a vast, very accessible, open frontier. it's more action, less philosophizing. (when i came back to the US, i felt like someone put the brakes on my output, and now i spend a lot of time thinking and waiting!)
you don't need a license to practice. if you go freelance, the opportunities are out there. with all the flow of capital from companies and individuals needing environments designed and built, you can see your ideas realized startlingly quickly.
I'm working over here as well, and I must say I agree with you, it is frightening to see everything that goes on here. Sadly the clients seems to be not so clueless sometimes, but the architects are.. .
likil: though the aesthetics are surely not what you are used to (except in clothes i guess...), it is not about that. It is about how to build a country. And the extremely low functional quality of the city they are building. So much money to invest, and yet noone sees more than 5 years in the future.
aemkei: It is certanly NOT as simple as that. I would say it is extremely complex. You're from Sweden btw? What part? Still study?
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