I'm working on a project that places a 1" thick plate of corten steel in concrete. Does anyone know what kind of long term deterioration can be expected from the interaction with the concrete and exposure to moisture below grade.
I know Richard Serra does this a lot, but i'm not sure if he uses some sort of coating or barrier to protect the corten.
I'm not sure what specific detailing or treatments are necessary, but it's often common practice to let rebar rust before cement work is done. I think if the corten were allowed to rust before placing it in the concrete, the problem you'd have with it corroding (and the life expectancy of the structure) would be greatly improved. Rust/concrete bonds are okay, as long as the corrosion isn't degrading (not a problem with corten) and as long as it doesn't happen while the metal is entrained in the cement. Because then you'll get spalling, flaking, cracks, etc. as the metal expands and whatnot.
Hi
Another non-expert will say that here there are a building with this paneling --- the rest are just a concrete building but, around the building the concrete sidewalk are acturly rust color , still the thing about corton shuld be, that it quickly rust but that rust process is different than the tradisional where there are in fact two ferro oxygne types , --- the corton stop rusting or shuld stop rusting , still maby this is just brag and the fact is that corton simply express rust, nice color though .
That seems to make sense to let the corten rust before setting it in the concrete.
I've been looking at a corten sculpture in downtown Dallas off of Pearl and Central Expressway. After digging below the dirt down to the concrete it looks like the steel has deteriorated about 1/16". I'm trying to any information on the project to see how it was constructed. It must be a Richard Serra knockoff because I can't find any information on it at all.
Recently on a project of mine in LA the building inspector wasn't going to let us pour the concrete footings because the rebar sat for awhile and started to rust.
He said the metal should be clean for the concrete to adhere to it properly. We said lighten up buddy it'll be okay. He let us pour.
i thought this was a thread about a guy names Will Corten...
isnt it Cor-Ten steel, not corten?
anyhow. i thought the fallacy of cor-ten and why it isnt in use so much anymore is because it would continue to rust.. unlike what was previously thought.
i use steel alot, though I have not worked with cor-ten so far. on the west coast it is ridiculously expensive & we don't need it from a weather standpoint. what i heard is the general purpose of core-ten is a weathering steel used where paint finishes would be problematic - for bridges & structural apps, etc. It is not generally intended to be embedded. Its use is mostly east coast. upon exposure to nasty weather and water, etc. it builds a sacrifice coating / surface. that slows down further corrossion and deteriouration. you might want to check on its corrosion rate from some group like steel.org or something. its probably a predictable limited rate and then it stops.
concrete generally inhibits rust. there is a great paint company that came into being because years ago the inventive observer was demolishing a building. when the rebar that had been embedded in the concrete building was split open.......... well, the guy noticed that there was no rust and was surprised. the inventiveness/observation led to the creation of tnemec which is cement backwards............ i found that out when I asked a rep from tnemec.
You could always pre-rust steel to have the weathered look of cor-ten, with acid. (this is pretty standard practice).
Though I can't speak from a engineers view in my experience rusting( or deterioration due to weathering) is mainly a surface issue. The structural capacity of the steel should be fine. [edit.. just noticed art tech geek said this as well.]
Remember that cor-ten will bleed rust onto the concrete and stain it (so, if your going for a look that demands a clean concrete face...use gel-stain or clear coat on the surface of the weather steel and it will seal the rusted "look" We've done that quite a bit on railings and such that needed to be weathered but also not get rust all over everyones clothing etc..
It's probably better to just coat the steel below grade to be safe..I don't think you should have much of problem though given the thickness your using.
[edit ..edit.. apparently all of this has been said before.. now that I actually read the thread so consider my vote added to those of the others]
Oct 12, 05 8:31 pm ·
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Will Corten deteriorate in concrete?
I'm working on a project that places a 1" thick plate of corten steel in concrete. Does anyone know what kind of long term deterioration can be expected from the interaction with the concrete and exposure to moisture below grade.
I know Richard Serra does this a lot, but i'm not sure if he uses some sort of coating or barrier to protect the corten.
Well, nothing lasts forever, as they say...
I'm not sure what specific detailing or treatments are necessary, but it's often common practice to let rebar rust before cement work is done. I think if the corten were allowed to rust before placing it in the concrete, the problem you'd have with it corroding (and the life expectancy of the structure) would be greatly improved. Rust/concrete bonds are okay, as long as the corrosion isn't degrading (not a problem with corten) and as long as it doesn't happen while the metal is entrained in the cement. Because then you'll get spalling, flaking, cracks, etc. as the metal expands and whatnot.
Hope my nonexpert opinion helps.
Hi
Another non-expert will say that here there are a building with this paneling --- the rest are just a concrete building but, around the building the concrete sidewalk are acturly rust color , still the thing about corton shuld be, that it quickly rust but that rust process is different than the tradisional where there are in fact two ferro oxygne types , --- the corton stop rusting or shuld stop rusting , still maby this is just brag and the fact is that corton simply express rust, nice color though .
That seems to make sense to let the corten rust before setting it in the concrete.
I've been looking at a corten sculpture in downtown Dallas off of Pearl and Central Expressway. After digging below the dirt down to the concrete it looks like the steel has deteriorated about 1/16". I'm trying to any information on the project to see how it was constructed. It must be a Richard Serra knockoff because I can't find any information on it at all.
Recently on a project of mine in LA the building inspector wasn't going to let us pour the concrete footings because the rebar sat for awhile and started to rust.
He said the metal should be clean for the concrete to adhere to it properly. We said lighten up buddy it'll be okay. He let us pour.
juan moment;
that sculpture is by Mark di Suvero called Proverb and it is by no means a "knock off"
bLayer
Actually, the sculpture is by Robert Irwin and is called Portal Park Slice.
You're still right though, it is by no means a knock off.
oh...
i thought this was a thread about a guy names Will Corten...
isnt it Cor-Ten steel, not corten?
anyhow. i thought the fallacy of cor-ten and why it isnt in use so much anymore is because it would continue to rust.. unlike what was previously thought.
juan moment;
Sorry, I spaced out there. I thought you meant the one on N. Pearl at Woodall Rodgers on the north lawn of the Meyerson.
I'm sure you have seen the Serra one in FW by the Modern.
i use steel alot, though I have not worked with cor-ten so far. on the west coast it is ridiculously expensive & we don't need it from a weather standpoint. what i heard is the general purpose of core-ten is a weathering steel used where paint finishes would be problematic - for bridges & structural apps, etc. It is not generally intended to be embedded. Its use is mostly east coast. upon exposure to nasty weather and water, etc. it builds a sacrifice coating / surface. that slows down further corrossion and deteriouration. you might want to check on its corrosion rate from some group like steel.org or something. its probably a predictable limited rate and then it stops.
concrete generally inhibits rust. there is a great paint company that came into being because years ago the inventive observer was demolishing a building. when the rebar that had been embedded in the concrete building was split open.......... well, the guy noticed that there was no rust and was surprised. the inventiveness/observation led to the creation of tnemec which is cement backwards............ i found that out when I asked a rep from tnemec.
You could always pre-rust steel to have the weathered look of cor-ten, with acid. (this is pretty standard practice).
Though I can't speak from a engineers view in my experience rusting( or deterioration due to weathering) is mainly a surface issue. The structural capacity of the steel should be fine. [edit.. just noticed art tech geek said this as well.]
Remember that cor-ten will bleed rust onto the concrete and stain it (so, if your going for a look that demands a clean concrete face...use gel-stain or clear coat on the surface of the weather steel and it will seal the rusted "look" We've done that quite a bit on railings and such that needed to be weathered but also not get rust all over everyones clothing etc..
It's probably better to just coat the steel below grade to be safe..I don't think you should have much of problem though given the thickness your using.
[edit ..edit.. apparently all of this has been said before.. now that I actually read the thread so consider my vote added to those of the others]
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