This is a continuation to a post I made in the "I hate people." thread.
I'm wondering if anyone out there has had a similar experience or can offer any advice.
My fiancé and I were supposed to move out of our apartment at the end of May but because I was starting grad school in the fall, we asked if he might extend the lease until middle of August. He said that was fine. We continued to pay rent and everything was great. Unfortunately we did not ask nor sign a temporary lease. In hindsight we should have done so.
We moved out middle of August and he still has not returned our security deposit. We've tried calling; he won't answer his phone. We've left numerous messages, none returned. We tried *67, he's answered once and said that he mailed the deposit, the check was signed and passed through the bank. My fiancé asked what the check number was and he got all flustered and said to call back the next day when he would give us the info. We called back and he hasn't answered or returned our messages. We didn't receive a check so I know he's lying.
We cleaned the apartment and patched all holes. Chicago law states that he has 30 days in which to give us an itemized list of any damages done to the apartment and provide receipts of payment if any repairs are needed. We have not received any word that repairs were needed. Chicago law also says that if a landlord does not return the deposit within 45 days we are entitled to double the security deposit.
We've also sent several priority, return receipt requested letters. He has not responded to any of them. The deposit is not huge but a significant amount of money to us. My fiancé and I are now in Michigan and I'm in the middle of grad school. The last thing we really want to do is deal with a lawsuit.
We've contacted an attorney and he basically laughed at us because we are naive to the situation. The attorney said the landlord is going to stand up in court and lie through his teeth about anything and everything - that we didn't give him proper notice of when we intened on moving out, that we were living in the apartment without a lease therefore should not have been there, that we trashed the place, etc etc. It was disgusting to hear all of the loop holes the landlord might be able to lie through. And in the end we might get some money but it might be less than our legal fees thus ened this farther in the hole.
Has anyone here ever had to sue a landlord for something like this and if so what was the experience like. Thanks.
Don't you have a paper trail of the lease, your notice to vacate, etc?
Typically, once the term in a lease expires, the contract becomes month to month with a 30 day notice to vacate. Does your lease state anything about that?
You wouldn't need an attorney to get involved, just go to small claims and file it yourself. Since you're out of state though, it is going to be a huge pain to get anything done. You may just have to eat it.
That attorney just sounds like an ass.
Sorry.
BTW, NOLO press is your salvation...
I had a similar problem with a Chicago landlord over the summer, didn't recieve contact for over 30 days, didn't recieve the check until 60 days after I moved out, and opened the check to find over $700 removed for damages (such as $50 for the removal of hangers left behind and the replacement of a smoke detector battery) and absolutely no interest paid on the money over the course of the 2 years I was hit tennant. In the end, with a costly move to LA looming, we decided it wasn't worth the fight. I took the $700 hit and settled for my remaining $400-some-odd-dollars. Makes my angry even thinking about it.
In your case, the first step is absolutely to talk to another lawyer. Particularly in Chicago, where the landlord ordinance leaves few grey areas, there are steps you can take. 30 days is 30 days, 45 days is 45 days, and bank records are bank records. You are entitled to double your deposit plus the interest you didn't earn, and you need to speak to another lawyer, and a third, and a fourth, until you find one who is not an absolute clown.
At the time, I tracked down some links for lawyers and pro-bono types who specialize in this sort of thing, but I can't find them now. Try researching the Metropolitan Tennant's Organization (or Association, can't remember). They're a Chicago group who handle this type of thing.
Here in SF i have taken my landlord to the RENT Board for mediation/abitration twice, and both times they have settle dwith me in my favor, in mediation, thus avoiding arbitration. Yes, when the lease expires, automatically reverts to month-to-month, and if he accepted and cashed your checks during those months then your living there is legit, as far as I understand. But with my problems i was never willing to pay lawyer fees for a lawsuit, so enagaging them at the rent board was a cheaper option and effective. if he said he sent the deposit to you then he has already admitted that you have deserved some return on your deposit, and now he needs to follow up and make sure you get it., so if you took him to court and he suddenly changes his tune, claiming you don't deserve any of it, then he will look foolish, since he has already claimed to have tried gettign you your deposit. go seek a tenants right org, they should be able to advise you and perhaps have a lawyer contect him on your behalf pro-bono, as MMatt provides.
but you werent living there illegally, if verbally he was notified of your intentions and gladly accepted your payments for those months. in the end he might owe you cahs for flaking on the deposit return and you can claim interest and/or penalties.
stuck with it, go though the tenant rights group, document your every move so he has little to contest.
Thanks guys. Great information and encouraging words.
I tried a few more law firms today. Only one was in the office at the time of my call. He thought I would not need a lawyer and suggested I should file suit in small claims courts. I have talked to the tenant rights assoc. but they provide minimal resources (so far at least - I'm planning on calling again). They gave me a few law firms who specialize in these sorts of disputes (one of which was the jackass from above). I will have to see if there is a Rent Board in Chicago. From my research, I have not seen one yet.
I see the biggest frustration is the documentation and preperation for the suit. Bryan, I like your point about him changing his tune after he already said he sent the check. I haven't thought of that. Also the first lawyer we talked to said the landlord was potentiall setting himself up for a fraud charge. It's just a little ammo but if we can document more then our case can look better and better. The way I see it is he had 30 days to itemize any subractions from our deposit and present them to us. After 30 days, I don't see how any repairs would matter. And after 45 days we are entitled to double our deposit. It's pretty clear verbage. It's the he said she said stuff that I do not have in writing that worries me.
He has had your phone number too all this time, i suppose, so he could have contacted you any time he wanted regarding any issues with the deposit. but he (from the way it sunds) has failed to make any such attempts. that constitutes a huge lack of sincerity in his behavior. the burden has been on you the entire time to get the issue of your deposit resolved. and you have made every attempt to do so yourself. i see that as the bigest flaw in his case, he has made neither attempt to contact, resolve, or respond to your bringing the issue forth, which indicate he has no interest in abiding by his obligations.
Also, summons to even a small claims court can be a powerfully persuasive document. Best case scenario, he's chickenshit. Worst case, you get an appearance on Judge Judy (or Judge Mathis, if you're in Chicago. He's right on Halsted and Monroe in the WCIU building.)
Target Landlord
This is a continuation to a post I made in the "I hate people." thread.
I'm wondering if anyone out there has had a similar experience or can offer any advice.
My fiancé and I were supposed to move out of our apartment at the end of May but because I was starting grad school in the fall, we asked if he might extend the lease until middle of August. He said that was fine. We continued to pay rent and everything was great. Unfortunately we did not ask nor sign a temporary lease. In hindsight we should have done so.
We moved out middle of August and he still has not returned our security deposit. We've tried calling; he won't answer his phone. We've left numerous messages, none returned. We tried *67, he's answered once and said that he mailed the deposit, the check was signed and passed through the bank. My fiancé asked what the check number was and he got all flustered and said to call back the next day when he would give us the info. We called back and he hasn't answered or returned our messages. We didn't receive a check so I know he's lying.
We cleaned the apartment and patched all holes. Chicago law states that he has 30 days in which to give us an itemized list of any damages done to the apartment and provide receipts of payment if any repairs are needed. We have not received any word that repairs were needed. Chicago law also says that if a landlord does not return the deposit within 45 days we are entitled to double the security deposit.
We've also sent several priority, return receipt requested letters. He has not responded to any of them. The deposit is not huge but a significant amount of money to us. My fiancé and I are now in Michigan and I'm in the middle of grad school. The last thing we really want to do is deal with a lawsuit.
We've contacted an attorney and he basically laughed at us because we are naive to the situation. The attorney said the landlord is going to stand up in court and lie through his teeth about anything and everything - that we didn't give him proper notice of when we intened on moving out, that we were living in the apartment without a lease therefore should not have been there, that we trashed the place, etc etc. It was disgusting to hear all of the loop holes the landlord might be able to lie through. And in the end we might get some money but it might be less than our legal fees thus ened this farther in the hole.
Has anyone here ever had to sue a landlord for something like this and if so what was the experience like. Thanks.
Don't you have a paper trail of the lease, your notice to vacate, etc?
Typically, once the term in a lease expires, the contract becomes month to month with a 30 day notice to vacate. Does your lease state anything about that?
You wouldn't need an attorney to get involved, just go to small claims and file it yourself. Since you're out of state though, it is going to be a huge pain to get anything done. You may just have to eat it.
That attorney just sounds like an ass.
Sorry.
BTW, NOLO press is your salvation...
I had a similar problem with a Chicago landlord over the summer, didn't recieve contact for over 30 days, didn't recieve the check until 60 days after I moved out, and opened the check to find over $700 removed for damages (such as $50 for the removal of hangers left behind and the replacement of a smoke detector battery) and absolutely no interest paid on the money over the course of the 2 years I was hit tennant. In the end, with a costly move to LA looming, we decided it wasn't worth the fight. I took the $700 hit and settled for my remaining $400-some-odd-dollars. Makes my angry even thinking about it.
In your case, the first step is absolutely to talk to another lawyer. Particularly in Chicago, where the landlord ordinance leaves few grey areas, there are steps you can take. 30 days is 30 days, 45 days is 45 days, and bank records are bank records. You are entitled to double your deposit plus the interest you didn't earn, and you need to speak to another lawyer, and a third, and a fourth, until you find one who is not an absolute clown.
At the time, I tracked down some links for lawyers and pro-bono types who specialize in this sort of thing, but I can't find them now. Try researching the Metropolitan Tennant's Organization (or Association, can't remember). They're a Chicago group who handle this type of thing.
.mm
Here is the MTO website.
http://www.tenants-rights.org/chicago/index.php
.mm
Here in SF i have taken my landlord to the RENT Board for mediation/abitration twice, and both times they have settle dwith me in my favor, in mediation, thus avoiding arbitration. Yes, when the lease expires, automatically reverts to month-to-month, and if he accepted and cashed your checks during those months then your living there is legit, as far as I understand. But with my problems i was never willing to pay lawyer fees for a lawsuit, so enagaging them at the rent board was a cheaper option and effective. if he said he sent the deposit to you then he has already admitted that you have deserved some return on your deposit, and now he needs to follow up and make sure you get it., so if you took him to court and he suddenly changes his tune, claiming you don't deserve any of it, then he will look foolish, since he has already claimed to have tried gettign you your deposit. go seek a tenants right org, they should be able to advise you and perhaps have a lawyer contect him on your behalf pro-bono, as MMatt provides.
but you werent living there illegally, if verbally he was notified of your intentions and gladly accepted your payments for those months. in the end he might owe you cahs for flaking on the deposit return and you can claim interest and/or penalties.
stuck with it, go though the tenant rights group, document your every move so he has little to contest.
good luck!
Thanks guys. Great information and encouraging words.
I tried a few more law firms today. Only one was in the office at the time of my call. He thought I would not need a lawyer and suggested I should file suit in small claims courts. I have talked to the tenant rights assoc. but they provide minimal resources (so far at least - I'm planning on calling again). They gave me a few law firms who specialize in these sorts of disputes (one of which was the jackass from above). I will have to see if there is a Rent Board in Chicago. From my research, I have not seen one yet.
I see the biggest frustration is the documentation and preperation for the suit. Bryan, I like your point about him changing his tune after he already said he sent the check. I haven't thought of that. Also the first lawyer we talked to said the landlord was potentiall setting himself up for a fraud charge. It's just a little ammo but if we can document more then our case can look better and better. The way I see it is he had 30 days to itemize any subractions from our deposit and present them to us. After 30 days, I don't see how any repairs would matter. And after 45 days we are entitled to double our deposit. It's pretty clear verbage. It's the he said she said stuff that I do not have in writing that worries me.
Oh well, let the stategery begin.
Thanks again folks.
j, I'm not at the University of Michigan but thank you for offering the resource.
He has had your phone number too all this time, i suppose, so he could have contacted you any time he wanted regarding any issues with the deposit. but he (from the way it sunds) has failed to make any such attempts. that constitutes a huge lack of sincerity in his behavior. the burden has been on you the entire time to get the issue of your deposit resolved. and you have made every attempt to do so yourself. i see that as the bigest flaw in his case, he has made neither attempt to contact, resolve, or respond to your bringing the issue forth, which indicate he has no interest in abiding by his obligations.
just more for ya.
Also, summons to even a small claims court can be a powerfully persuasive document. Best case scenario, he's chickenshit. Worst case, you get an appearance on Judge Judy (or Judge Mathis, if you're in Chicago. He's right on Halsted and Monroe in the WCIU building.)
.mm
[before i get jumped on, the tv court comment was a joke.]
.mm
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