Not busy at work, not enough money, a friend graduate at the same time makes $26,000 more, I'm thinking about changing my job. Unfortunatly, money seems always the issue. Had a couple of interviews, and they seems are not willing to offer more that $60,000. The AIA reports doesn't help much either, since the big range on it.
Maybe I'm too bad at negotiation. Anyone would like to share some tips on that? I wonder how much more should I change? Working environment right now is relaxing, people and bosses are friendly, just feel waste of time not doing much, taking more responsibilities. What would you do?
If you feel comfortable there, then why not try taking on more responsibility and after a while re-negotiate because of your added value to the firm? You'll be gaining skills for yourself should you decide to bail anyway.
To el jeffe, I'm willing to take more responsibilities, but we just don't have much work going on now. The boss I work with now, who mainly doing residential project , is so controling. He is not willing to give any responsibiltiess away. Things didn't change at all after I talked with him several times. He is also very unorganized, I found I don't have much to do a lot of the times. It's waste of time.
To sameolddoctor, acturally I asked for $60,000, but they seems only want to offer earlier to mid $50,000, Big differences. Should I change for just several thousands $?
Reason- never expect to get what you ask for. It might happen occasionally, but it's rare. If you really want 60g, you should be asking for around 64g. That's why it's called 'negotiation'. You highball, they lowball, you settle somewhere in between. With a combination of luck, skill, and a confident interview persona, you can put your highball at the right price that their lowball will still be a price you can live with. My former pro-practice teacher always said that you'll get whatever amount of money you can ask for with a straight face, and so far I've found it to be true. Don't look or sound shy when you name your price, but state it in a firm (but not too loud) voice and look the interviewer square in the eye, and it will come across that you firmly believe that that price is what your services are worth.
I agree that a place that doesn't show any opportunities for upward mobility isn't somewhere to stay for the long term. Stay long enough to get what you need from them (learn what they have to teach, make some good connections), and move on. Good luck.
Rationalist, Thanks for your advice. I did asked for 63g, and backed up with AIA survey. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to go to AIA(becaue of their 10:00AM-5:00PM hours). They called me in again just talk about money. They think what I asked was too high. They went to AIA and got the survey, and based on that the most I can got with my experiences will be only upper $50,000. I'm not sure what to say from there?
Reason ... dude ... maybe your grammar and spelling skills have something to do with your problem ... at $60k, a firm has a reasonable expectation you would be handling external communications with a certain degree of proficiency ... you're not demonstrating that ability, man !
How much experience do you have and where are you? Licensed?
I've found that asking for a raise at small firms is usually a lost cause- they just don't have the money. They budgeted to hire you at a certain pay scale and it's near impossible to get them to go higher. That's the problem with small places- you're always working for someone else. I've come to the conclusion that I'm not working small anymore unless I own the firm. Financially, it's just not feasible.
Reason- being that I don't know you, the first thing that comes to my mind on reading that is that you've got to consider that maybe your services aren't worth 60k. If you don't have the resume and portfolio to back it up, there's no help for it. I'd love to make 60k too, but I know that that's not reasonable given the level I'm currently at.
The other option is that that firm is a bunch of tightwads. This is what you'll have to judge for yourself- if this is a one-off, then go with the tightwad theory. But if this is a trend, then you should engage in some serious, honest self evaluation.
i agree with rationalist ... we are not selling wheat here ... one hour of my time will never be identical to one hour of your time ... surveys are useful but they're only general guidelines ... your services aren't a commodity ... value is capability and performance driven ... nobody here has a clue whether you're overpriced or underpaid ... only you and your employer can figure that out ... the market is always set by a "willing buyer" and a "willing seller" ... anything else is simply armwaving.
Sep 28, 05 11:55 am ·
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Tips on salary negotiation? How much more money should you change your job?
Not busy at work, not enough money, a friend graduate at the same time makes $26,000 more, I'm thinking about changing my job. Unfortunatly, money seems always the issue. Had a couple of interviews, and they seems are not willing to offer more that $60,000. The AIA reports doesn't help much either, since the big range on it.
Maybe I'm too bad at negotiation. Anyone would like to share some tips on that? I wonder how much more should I change? Working environment right now is relaxing, people and bosses are friendly, just feel waste of time not doing much, taking more responsibilities. What would you do?
60K is not bad at all, reason
If you feel comfortable there, then why not try taking on more responsibility and after a while re-negotiate because of your added value to the firm? You'll be gaining skills for yourself should you decide to bail anyway.
...been there, done that.
oh. mistake too.
To el jeffe, I'm willing to take more responsibilities, but we just don't have much work going on now. The boss I work with now, who mainly doing residential project , is so controling. He is not willing to give any responsibiltiess away. Things didn't change at all after I talked with him several times. He is also very unorganized, I found I don't have much to do a lot of the times. It's waste of time.
To sameolddoctor, acturally I asked for $60,000, but they seems only want to offer earlier to mid $50,000, Big differences. Should I change for just several thousands $?
Reason- never expect to get what you ask for. It might happen occasionally, but it's rare. If you really want 60g, you should be asking for around 64g. That's why it's called 'negotiation'. You highball, they lowball, you settle somewhere in between. With a combination of luck, skill, and a confident interview persona, you can put your highball at the right price that their lowball will still be a price you can live with. My former pro-practice teacher always said that you'll get whatever amount of money you can ask for with a straight face, and so far I've found it to be true. Don't look or sound shy when you name your price, but state it in a firm (but not too loud) voice and look the interviewer square in the eye, and it will come across that you firmly believe that that price is what your services are worth.
I agree that a place that doesn't show any opportunities for upward mobility isn't somewhere to stay for the long term. Stay long enough to get what you need from them (learn what they have to teach, make some good connections), and move on. Good luck.
Rationalist, Thanks for your advice. I did asked for 63g, and backed up with AIA survey. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to go to AIA(becaue of their 10:00AM-5:00PM hours). They called me in again just talk about money. They think what I asked was too high. They went to AIA and got the survey, and based on that the most I can got with my experiences will be only upper $50,000. I'm not sure what to say from there?
Reason ... dude ... maybe your grammar and spelling skills have something to do with your problem ... at $60k, a firm has a reasonable expectation you would be handling external communications with a certain degree of proficiency ... you're not demonstrating that ability, man !
How much experience do you have and where are you? Licensed?
I've found that asking for a raise at small firms is usually a lost cause- they just don't have the money. They budgeted to hire you at a certain pay scale and it's near impossible to get them to go higher. That's the problem with small places- you're always working for someone else. I've come to the conclusion that I'm not working small anymore unless I own the firm. Financially, it's just not feasible.
be your own boss, set your own pay and schedule
Reason- being that I don't know you, the first thing that comes to my mind on reading that is that you've got to consider that maybe your services aren't worth 60k. If you don't have the resume and portfolio to back it up, there's no help for it. I'd love to make 60k too, but I know that that's not reasonable given the level I'm currently at.
The other option is that that firm is a bunch of tightwads. This is what you'll have to judge for yourself- if this is a one-off, then go with the tightwad theory. But if this is a trend, then you should engage in some serious, honest self evaluation.
i agree with rationalist ... we are not selling wheat here ... one hour of my time will never be identical to one hour of your time ... surveys are useful but they're only general guidelines ... your services aren't a commodity ... value is capability and performance driven ... nobody here has a clue whether you're overpriced or underpaid ... only you and your employer can figure that out ... the market is always set by a "willing buyer" and a "willing seller" ... anything else is simply armwaving.
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