pulled this from the i love it when thread---Why is that everytime someone finds out that you're an architect, they assume you make a boatload of money? there is obviously a massive difference in reality vs. public opinion. Where is the mis-information coming from? How many other master's level professionals do you know that, on average, start below 40K? A friend of mine just finished law school - she started at 125k + 15k signing bonus - and went to a land grant law school! I would be happy with half of that.
i wish i had bennigan's on my first day, my boss took me to some upscale shitboat. i hate fancy ass foods that are overly dressed up in all there small portion glory. toca cabana would've been good too.
Your comment about land grant schools is representative of why people think architects make a lot of money. People assume that if you go to Harvard Law School you're better and worth higher pay, just like how they assume all architects make good money. Sterotypes are abundant, yet we only complain about them when the inaccuracies effect us personally.
point taken. however, sterotypes tend to be based on a reality at some point in their development. the harvard law payscale is more fact than fiction - the majority of harvard law students can make great money, unless they choose otherwise (at least they have a choice in the matter). the opposite would be true of arch. the very small minority of us make good money, yet the sterotype outside the profession is that we all are wealthy.
They assume you're making alot of money, because an architect is 9 times out of ten wearing black rectangular glasses, and they know that considering how many wear them, you won't settle for anything less than the best, most expensive, and hard to find frames.
It might help your earnings potential if you knew "a" and "lot" are two words. There is not such word as "alot" and employers are not going to be impressed if you send a cover letter talking about how you have "alot of experience".
More to the point, I'm getting really tired of these threads where people complain about salaries and try to compare us to other professions. It's pretty hypocritical to complain about how people make generalizations that we're all big earners but then turn around and make the same generalizations about other professions. I've known lawyers who've chosen to work for the federal government and non profit agencies advocating for the poor and weren't making anywhere even close to 125k.
unlike architecture, it actually 'pays' to go to a good school. Top schools will make exponentially more and they will learn from the best in the field. Not so with architecture and peolpe make about the same starting regardless if they went to a top school or not.
I am glad people think we make a lot, it gives us more respect and credibility. If people knew the truth, that architects slave away for next to nothing, have huge depths, and lost years of their life to stress and all nighters, people would not only lose respect they'd think we were idiots.
Enjoy one of the few perks of the profession: misrepresentation that is useful for hitting on people at bars. I mean when was the last time one of you CADers responded to the question "what do you do?" with "Oh, I'm an intern, but i'm gonna be architect some day..." I say keep the misconception alive!
The delirious pay would be there if "we" were better organized amongst ourselves, were politically represented in government policy, and conveyed a constant and consistent message to the public at large of who we are and what we can do. Also most, but not all, architects who complain about income and ivy schools likely are mediocre to begin with...in my experience. All I will say is that there also needs to be some "weeding" in our profession...way too many hacks, both professionally and in academia, are cluttering up the profession.
Wouldn't that be true of any profession? Even the ones that get paid alot. I believe we had a nice long discussion on the matter.
I'd be willing to bet most of us here like being of a different breed than the doctors and lawyers (not that some/most/whatever aren't wonderful, interesting people, yada yada yada). Also, I'd be scared to think of the result of everyone getting into architecture for the money.
Not that a little thicker wallet wouldn't be nice...
ahh bryan4..I mentioned a friend's salary to start discussion, then noted that lawyers have a choice in their economic path in life. Sure, lawyers can choose to serve society, but they also can choose to have a fiscally stable life. I didn't start the thread to bitch about my choice to work in a field that I enjoy a great deal, merely to ask why the disconnect between society's percieved monetary value of architects and reality. If we (speaking generally of arch and related fields) feel that our role in society is crucial, and society thinks we should be/are highly compensated for our valuable service, why aren't we?
btw onlyne diskussion grps are a wondurful way to evalu8 english skils
there's a balance to be sure. if you love what you do then that's payment beyond compare. but if you can't make a living doing it -- a living, mind you -- then only those who don't need to make a living will do it.
teachers, journalists, police officers and firefighters are all in our same boat. actually, at this point i'd be making more as an austin isd high-school geography teacher, which is my fallback position...!
Good thinking ther ochona....I once read an article that was saying if you broke down what a teacher gets paid by # of hours working they are some of the highest paid people out there. (I know they put in time at home, etc.) Just saying...those long summers off isn't a bad perk.
Also, school administration is a highly paid career path. More thankless than being a teacher, but if life is all about the $$$.....
i just want to agree about the choice thing. even lawyers who choose to do the lower-paying non-profit/public route get paid more than we do. case in point: a friend of mine who attended a mid-level law school (rank b/n 25 & 50) who graduated well but not top of his class is working for the courts in his 1st year out for a salary in the 50k+ range in nyc.
the only way to earn 50k+ right out of school with an arch degree is to go to work for a large corporate conglomerate where you lose the ability to respectfully call yourself a "designer".
and b/c going to a top arch school generally corresponds with having (maybe idealistic) artistic ambition, and even more, coming out of a top arch school means having strengthened design abilities, the better your education means the more likely you'd have to forsake it in order to make money.
Anyone out there been able to successfully change things at their place of work (where the salary is fair) for the better from the inside rather than throwing our hands up in the air and saying to hell with it? Now dont misunderstand: this is not meant to be a criticizm. I am just wondering if it has ever been done and how to do it... I am talking about over a long period of suggestions to higher ups, exposing co-workers to more interesting work etc... will it actually bear fruit? or will I/ you/ we just become assimilated into the culture of mediocrity if we stay?
to be fair, most architects (employers) are fairly reasonable but it will take effort to make a positive change re: salary. many architects are under the impression that this is a permanent sellers' market in terms of labor, especially at the entry level.
you're an architect? you must make alot of money...
pulled this from the i love it when thread---Why is that everytime someone finds out that you're an architect, they assume you make a boatload of money? there is obviously a massive difference in reality vs. public opinion. Where is the mis-information coming from? How many other master's level professionals do you know that, on average, start below 40K? A friend of mine just finished law school - she started at 125k + 15k signing bonus - and went to a land grant law school! I would be happy with half of that.
jeez, i started with a quarter of that. only signing bonus i got was a free lunch my first day. at bennigan's.
slainte.
what's wrong with land grant schools?
:(
nada - i went to land grants for both my degrees, and proud of it!
i wish i had bennigan's on my first day, my boss took me to some upscale shitboat. i hate fancy ass foods that are overly dressed up in all there small portion glory. toca cabana would've been good too.
Your comment about land grant schools is representative of why people think architects make a lot of money. People assume that if you go to Harvard Law School you're better and worth higher pay, just like how they assume all architects make good money. Sterotypes are abundant, yet we only complain about them when the inaccuracies effect us personally.
Oh, and my first day I went to the deli across the street and paid $6 for my lunch.
i brought canned soup.
point taken. however, sterotypes tend to be based on a reality at some point in their development. the harvard law payscale is more fact than fiction - the majority of harvard law students can make great money, unless they choose otherwise (at least they have a choice in the matter). the opposite would be true of arch. the very small minority of us make good money, yet the sterotype outside the profession is that we all are wealthy.
i had leftover cold cuts my first day
They assume you're making alot of money, because an architect is 9 times out of ten wearing black rectangular glasses, and they know that considering how many wear them, you won't settle for anything less than the best, most expensive, and hard to find frames.
It might help your earnings potential if you knew "a" and "lot" are two words. There is not such word as "alot" and employers are not going to be impressed if you send a cover letter talking about how you have "alot of experience".
More to the point, I'm getting really tired of these threads where people complain about salaries and try to compare us to other professions. It's pretty hypocritical to complain about how people make generalizations that we're all big earners but then turn around and make the same generalizations about other professions. I've known lawyers who've chosen to work for the federal government and non profit agencies advocating for the poor and weren't making anywhere even close to 125k.
unlike architecture, it actually 'pays' to go to a good school. Top schools will make exponentially more and they will learn from the best in the field. Not so with architecture and peolpe make about the same starting regardless if they went to a top school or not.
I am glad people think we make a lot, it gives us more respect and credibility. If people knew the truth, that architects slave away for next to nothing, have huge depths, and lost years of their life to stress and all nighters, people would not only lose respect they'd think we were idiots.
....hmmmmmm.....
careful bryan4arch, you've just fed a potential generalization that maybe harvard kids are cocky. alot cocky!
everyone knows bryan is spelled brian too
Enjoy one of the few perks of the profession: misrepresentation that is useful for hitting on people at bars. I mean when was the last time one of you CADers responded to the question "what do you do?" with "Oh, I'm an intern, but i'm gonna be architect some day..." I say keep the misconception alive!
The delirious pay would be there if "we" were better organized amongst ourselves, were politically represented in government policy, and conveyed a constant and consistent message to the public at large of who we are and what we can do. Also most, but not all, architects who complain about income and ivy schools likely are mediocre to begin with...in my experience. All I will say is that there also needs to be some "weeding" in our profession...way too many hacks, both professionally and in academia, are cluttering up the profession.
Wouldn't that be true of any profession? Even the ones that get paid alot. I believe we had a nice long discussion on the matter.
I'd be willing to bet most of us here like being of a different breed than the doctors and lawyers (not that some/most/whatever aren't wonderful, interesting people, yada yada yada). Also, I'd be scared to think of the result of everyone getting into architecture for the money.
Not that a little thicker wallet wouldn't be nice...
word momentum, the cabana rocks. you must be in TX.
ahh bryan4..I mentioned a friend's salary to start discussion, then noted that lawyers have a choice in their economic path in life. Sure, lawyers can choose to serve society, but they also can choose to have a fiscally stable life. I didn't start the thread to bitch about my choice to work in a field that I enjoy a great deal, merely to ask why the disconnect between society's percieved monetary value of architects and reality. If we (speaking generally of arch and related fields) feel that our role in society is crucial, and society thinks we should be/are highly compensated for our valuable service, why aren't we?
btw onlyne diskussion grps are a wondurful way to evalu8 english skils
there's a balance to be sure. if you love what you do then that's payment beyond compare. but if you can't make a living doing it -- a living, mind you -- then only those who don't need to make a living will do it.
teachers, journalists, police officers and firefighters are all in our same boat. actually, at this point i'd be making more as an austin isd high-school geography teacher, which is my fallback position...!
Yeah, but you wouldn't be able to post while working.
i'd be able to post every minute of every day from memorial day to mid-august.
except teacher in-service days...
come to think of it, i'd do less paperwork, too
and i'd spend less of my own money, too
and, at the end of the day, i'd know that i actually made a difference in someone's life, too
but then again, i hated being a student -- why would i like being a teacher?
Good thinking ther ochona....I once read an article that was saying if you broke down what a teacher gets paid by # of hours working they are some of the highest paid people out there. (I know they put in time at home, etc.) Just saying...those long summers off isn't a bad perk.
Also, school administration is a highly paid career path. More thankless than being a teacher, but if life is all about the $$$.....
i just want to agree about the choice thing. even lawyers who choose to do the lower-paying non-profit/public route get paid more than we do. case in point: a friend of mine who attended a mid-level law school (rank b/n 25 & 50) who graduated well but not top of his class is working for the courts in his 1st year out for a salary in the 50k+ range in nyc.
the only way to earn 50k+ right out of school with an arch degree is to go to work for a large corporate conglomerate where you lose the ability to respectfully call yourself a "designer".
and b/c going to a top arch school generally corresponds with having (maybe idealistic) artistic ambition, and even more, coming out of a top arch school means having strengthened design abilities, the better your education means the more likely you'd have to forsake it in order to make money.
Anyone out there been able to successfully change things at their place of work (where the salary is fair) for the better from the inside rather than throwing our hands up in the air and saying to hell with it? Now dont misunderstand: this is not meant to be a criticizm. I am just wondering if it has ever been done and how to do it... I am talking about over a long period of suggestions to higher ups, exposing co-workers to more interesting work etc... will it actually bear fruit? or will I/ you/ we just become assimilated into the culture of mediocrity if we stay?
oh, and bryan4arch... if you are tired of "these" threads are you reading them just to point out spelling/ grammar errors?
you sad, sad boy.
to be fair, most architects (employers) are fairly reasonable but it will take effort to make a positive change re: salary. many architects are under the impression that this is a permanent sellers' market in terms of labor, especially at the entry level.
well go to law school and quit bitching.
haha
Yesssss, yess, I do. Quite, quite, harumphhh. Ahhh, Cubans.
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