I'm about to move into the home-ownership game but I'm a little frustrated with my options here where I live. I'm seriously considering buying a modern prefab house. The cost of the house will be about $120-$160 / sq.ft. (around $190,000 for the entire house). Is it possible to get a custom designed house for around the same price, including architecture design fees and construction? Are there any precedents that I should take a look at. This is all very new to me so I would really appreciate some good feedback, especially from those who have had similar experience.
If I decide to work with an architect on a custom house, I'm not going to take a risk with anybody that hasn't complete at least a few similar projects.
john. you could probably work with an architect to design and build a house in the range that you are looking at. as with any project, what you can buy for that amount will depend on where the site is, transportation to the site, the amount of site work necessary, cost of labor in the area, etc. but you can definitely buy a modest house in most areas (and depending on your location, a much more extravagant house) for the amount you are stating. look into smaller, younger offices, though. they will be more willing to take on this type of work..but may not have as much experience. please post your location here and i'm sure there will be some potential prospects that would love to work with you on it.
as for precedents...many of the custom modern prefab houses you see started as case studies for individuals. actually there are very few modern prefab housing manufacturers currently going...so it will be worth looing into architects to weigh your options.
for the pre-fab, you should check out fabprefab.com to see the projects in development. you should also seriously consider what you'd get in a pre-fab, and how much goes into the project after the shell is on the site.
I'd be a fool not to tell you that you're better off with an architect - but I think there's very little debating this one. I also think going into a design/construction project with the dollars-per-square-foot figured before the design might be a mistake.
Ddot - prefab houses have the benefit of being mass-produced, which means that there's less likelyhood for problems. The design and construction has been thouroughly considered. Also, it's fast. After buying a lot, I don't want to be paying two mortgages while waiting a year for an architect to complete my design and construction.
On the other hand, a custom-designed house can be very personal and an overall better design.
I think I understand the benefit of both approaches. I'm just unsure if I would be able to get a 1500 square foot house, designed by an experienced architect, and built for under $200,000. I guess I just need to start shopping around for architects.
I run a practice that does 95% residential work. I can't even imagine being able to build for $175 per square foot (not including fees), at least not in my part of the country. I would probably recommend going pre-fab (although at the end of the day it will cost more that you think it will, now) or using some sort of design/build firm.
i'm sure both approaches will end up costing more than the initial estimates... but i think that the prefab option will be closer to the estimated time and cost than the custom option. i have a couple architect friends who will probably be willing to help me out with some details to keep the price as honest as possible.
AIA commercial...
If you are thinking about building a new house and not using an architect......
Seriously, the small amount you'd pay for an architect will pay off thousands of times over the life of that house. You'd be an idiot not to go with an architect even if it means spending an couple extra $$ up front.
I know the benefits of a mass produced, pre-fab house. However, as you went on to state, the design of your house with a qualified professional makes it YOUR house - it's very personal, and better suited to the way you do things.
You've stressed the word 'experienced' in your consideration of architects. In selecting an architect, you can certainly weed through those who can't deliver your project.
150/sf isn't a bad number in my area for traditional construction - like wood framed, 3x5 windows, stock cabinetry and fixtures. but a very fine modern home might be closer to 200/sf. I think others here might agree with me that the cost is almost always driven by the level of detail in the finishes the owner selects. So, you might find comparable costs for pre-fab components and custom designed components, that comparable cost might not extend to the entire project.
I have done a lot of houses over 31 years...and designed a nice little house for my brother on an 11 acre lot....several years later he gave an acre to my folks for them to build on (to be closer as they age, etc) and yep, they decided to buy a modular pre-fab rather than have me design something for them....go figure. But the point of that little story is that I see on a semi regular basis the things they "settled" for in working with the pre-fab company....that with a little bit of input from me could have been avoided, even if they had insisted on sticking with the pre-fab route. Also, the lower cost of most prefabs is due to a generally low to mid range choice of finishes, and as anyone here can tell you, finishes can dramatically affect final cost.
I would make one other point: the potential resale value (and future appreciation) of a custom designed home is typically considerably more than that of "plan B" from a modular company. Ask any real estate agent for an unbiased opinion on that. When you couple that with the joy of living in a home that has been tailored to you and your family, and the specifics of the site, a custom home is a much better investment, in my opinion.
Finally, you haven't stated what region of the country you are in and costs do vary considerably depending on location, including proximity to major metropolitan areas. My experience here in Colorado is that most of the residential additions and additions that I am doing now average from $125 to $200 per square foot, depending on complexity and finishes of course. New construction can range from $125 bare minimum to $450+ per square foot, again depending on site work, complexity, finishes, etc. $200K for 1500 sf is only $133 per sf, which is pretty basic, but could be possible with a lot of restraint.
Depending on the firm, you could pay anywhere from 5% to 18%, or the equivalent, for architectural (and engineering) fees.
JohnL: if you decide to go the pre-fab route, make sure that you get a copy of their specifications before you sign anything, and review it carefully. Most likely (based on the experience I had with my parents choice, as well as a $35,000,000 retirement community I designed that utilized modular construction for all of the independent living cottages) the "standard" material choices are pretty basic. The faucet sets are the $59 variety, not the $275 set, and most definitely not the $750 set.....the flooring is lower end sheet vinyl and carpet, not higher quality carpet and hardwood and tile.....if there is tile it is 4 1/4 x 4 1/4, not 12 x 12....the windows are lower end vinyl, not clad wood, ....the piping is not insulated (you can do this yourself of course)....the roof shingles are 20 or 25 year, not 40 year....tub surrounds are mono fiberglass, not tile....etc etc etc....you get the idea. With some negotiation skill, you can upgrade some things without too much additional expense, since they have the labor cost well controlled already, you should only have to pay the upgrade delta on the material only. For instance, the delta in material cost for fiberglass/asphalt shingles to go from 25 year to 40 year is not much, and the quality and aesthetics are better....the labor is essentially the same.
Again, I would argue that a good architect can design something that will far surpass a modular in terms of reflecting you and your family without a huge difference in cost. But...don't make the mistake of paying the architect on a percentage fee basis...which penalizes them for saving you money in construction costs...pay them either on a fixed fee, or hourly basis. My opinion of course. Best wishes.
thanks. again, great advice. the prefab house that i'm looking at seems to be quite well constructed and designed. some of the materials are more on the affordable side, but they are tasteful, natural materials. apparently there are also many options to customize the prefab house at additional costs. i've got some shopping and research to do. it will be a tough decision.
please take care to figure out who's (and for how much) doing the site work, siting the structure, delivering the utilities, negotiating the different trades, and assembling all the pieces. I understand that this cost is not insignificant with a prefab (no more than a traditional construction, but not necessarily advertised as part of the true cost).
you may try searching dwell's forum for people with experience going through this process.
i dont know what area of the country you live in (or if you have a flat site, etc) so i cant for sure say what buildings costs would be but frankly, in my experience here in LA pre-fab is, in theory, a good idea, but in reality not significantly cheaper than a custom house if you are careful with your choices.
soleproprietor has really hit the nail on the head with the cons of going prefab... and it isnt really prefab anyway-- you'll find in the end that it is, in a sense, as customed designed as an architect-designed house with basically less options to choose from. we're doing a house for $150/sf, wood frame, and are quite happy with the results.
A little off topic and just for reference,
In my side of the world, and mainly in South America, a house with good materials, that would be comparable with US standards for insulation and security, mostly concrete frame and hollow brick masonry, carpeting, kitchen and bath equipment, etc. should never exceed 180 $ / sqr. Meter, that is almost 1/3 of your costs in the US, the only materials that would be left out in this calculations are special PVC widows with double glazing, etc.
60% difference is a lot isn’t it?
Where would you guys place that significant difference?
And how are the prices in Europe?
If any Europeans on the forum?
And elsewhere?
Asia?
Labor... just compare how much the people doing the actual building are paid. Here laborers/carpenters etc. are likely paid from $15/hr on the low end to $40/hr and up for a carpenter, etc. On top of that straight labor cost, the employer/contractor has to pay worker's compensation and general liability insurance, which can be very high, esp. in California. Add to that the cost of basic building materials which has recently skyrocketed, the cost of fixtures, tile etc. which are likely much higher in the US, as well as building department and engineering fees, and you will begin to see where the difference comes from. It is not uncommon for "custom" projects (meaning designed by an architect) in the LA area to cost $350-$450/sq.ft. We have a small design/build office and are finding that we really can't build for less than $200/sq.ft., unless it's for ourselves or very standard "match existing" add-ons.
do you think recent huricanes will have a negative effect on prefab trailer type of design sales? i think it will be a long time for people to forget the images of blown trailer parks. even if they want to invest in one in a non huricane region.
Aug 21, 04 9:47 pm ·
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Custom design by architect, or prefab house?
I'm about to move into the home-ownership game but I'm a little frustrated with my options here where I live. I'm seriously considering buying a modern prefab house. The cost of the house will be about $120-$160 / sq.ft. (around $190,000 for the entire house). Is it possible to get a custom designed house for around the same price, including architecture design fees and construction? Are there any precedents that I should take a look at. This is all very new to me so I would really appreciate some good feedback, especially from those who have had similar experience.
I'd design a house with you for $150/sq. ft.
If I decide to work with an architect on a custom house, I'm not going to take a risk with anybody that hasn't complete at least a few similar projects.
john. you could probably work with an architect to design and build a house in the range that you are looking at. as with any project, what you can buy for that amount will depend on where the site is, transportation to the site, the amount of site work necessary, cost of labor in the area, etc. but you can definitely buy a modest house in most areas (and depending on your location, a much more extravagant house) for the amount you are stating. look into smaller, younger offices, though. they will be more willing to take on this type of work..but may not have as much experience. please post your location here and i'm sure there will be some potential prospects that would love to work with you on it.
as for precedents...many of the custom modern prefab houses you see started as case studies for individuals. actually there are very few modern prefab housing manufacturers currently going...so it will be worth looing into architects to weigh your options.
Ok, I've completed a few similar (judging by your description) projects.
I've completed a few too.
for the pre-fab, you should check out fabprefab.com to see the projects in development. you should also seriously consider what you'd get in a pre-fab, and how much goes into the project after the shell is on the site.
I'd be a fool not to tell you that you're better off with an architect - but I think there's very little debating this one. I also think going into a design/construction project with the dollars-per-square-foot figured before the design might be a mistake.
Ddot - prefab houses have the benefit of being mass-produced, which means that there's less likelyhood for problems. The design and construction has been thouroughly considered. Also, it's fast. After buying a lot, I don't want to be paying two mortgages while waiting a year for an architect to complete my design and construction.
On the other hand, a custom-designed house can be very personal and an overall better design.
I think I understand the benefit of both approaches. I'm just unsure if I would be able to get a 1500 square foot house, designed by an experienced architect, and built for under $200,000. I guess I just need to start shopping around for architects.
I run a practice that does 95% residential work. I can't even imagine being able to build for $175 per square foot (not including fees), at least not in my part of the country. I would probably recommend going pre-fab (although at the end of the day it will cost more that you think it will, now) or using some sort of design/build firm.
Good luck.
i'm sure both approaches will end up costing more than the initial estimates... but i think that the prefab option will be closer to the estimated time and cost than the custom option. i have a couple architect friends who will probably be willing to help me out with some details to keep the price as honest as possible.
AIA commercial...
If you are thinking about building a new house and not using an architect......
Seriously, the small amount you'd pay for an architect will pay off thousands of times over the life of that house. You'd be an idiot not to go with an architect even if it means spending an couple extra $$ up front.
I know the benefits of a mass produced, pre-fab house. However, as you went on to state, the design of your house with a qualified professional makes it YOUR house - it's very personal, and better suited to the way you do things.
You've stressed the word 'experienced' in your consideration of architects. In selecting an architect, you can certainly weed through those who can't deliver your project.
150/sf isn't a bad number in my area for traditional construction - like wood framed, 3x5 windows, stock cabinetry and fixtures. but a very fine modern home might be closer to 200/sf. I think others here might agree with me that the cost is almost always driven by the level of detail in the finishes the owner selects. So, you might find comparable costs for pre-fab components and custom designed components, that comparable cost might not extend to the entire project.
Best of luck.
I have done a lot of houses over 31 years...and designed a nice little house for my brother on an 11 acre lot....several years later he gave an acre to my folks for them to build on (to be closer as they age, etc) and yep, they decided to buy a modular pre-fab rather than have me design something for them....go figure. But the point of that little story is that I see on a semi regular basis the things they "settled" for in working with the pre-fab company....that with a little bit of input from me could have been avoided, even if they had insisted on sticking with the pre-fab route. Also, the lower cost of most prefabs is due to a generally low to mid range choice of finishes, and as anyone here can tell you, finishes can dramatically affect final cost.
I would make one other point: the potential resale value (and future appreciation) of a custom designed home is typically considerably more than that of "plan B" from a modular company. Ask any real estate agent for an unbiased opinion on that. When you couple that with the joy of living in a home that has been tailored to you and your family, and the specifics of the site, a custom home is a much better investment, in my opinion.
Finally, you haven't stated what region of the country you are in and costs do vary considerably depending on location, including proximity to major metropolitan areas. My experience here in Colorado is that most of the residential additions and additions that I am doing now average from $125 to $200 per square foot, depending on complexity and finishes of course. New construction can range from $125 bare minimum to $450+ per square foot, again depending on site work, complexity, finishes, etc. $200K for 1500 sf is only $133 per sf, which is pretty basic, but could be possible with a lot of restraint.
Depending on the firm, you could pay anywhere from 5% to 18%, or the equivalent, for architectural (and engineering) fees.
well said, soleproprietornow.
helpful information.
thanks.
Prefab vs Custom designed and built
First rule : your get what you pay for
Prefab will have limited design choices
Custom has unlimited design choices
Second rule: do your home work
If you rush into any type of construction your going to make rush decisions and you'll have to live with for a long time.
Find out who in your area is doing what work. Have them take you to their projects. See what type of operation they run.
Design/build firms are a good choice.
JohnL: if you decide to go the pre-fab route, make sure that you get a copy of their specifications before you sign anything, and review it carefully. Most likely (based on the experience I had with my parents choice, as well as a $35,000,000 retirement community I designed that utilized modular construction for all of the independent living cottages) the "standard" material choices are pretty basic. The faucet sets are the $59 variety, not the $275 set, and most definitely not the $750 set.....the flooring is lower end sheet vinyl and carpet, not higher quality carpet and hardwood and tile.....if there is tile it is 4 1/4 x 4 1/4, not 12 x 12....the windows are lower end vinyl, not clad wood, ....the piping is not insulated (you can do this yourself of course)....the roof shingles are 20 or 25 year, not 40 year....tub surrounds are mono fiberglass, not tile....etc etc etc....you get the idea. With some negotiation skill, you can upgrade some things without too much additional expense, since they have the labor cost well controlled already, you should only have to pay the upgrade delta on the material only. For instance, the delta in material cost for fiberglass/asphalt shingles to go from 25 year to 40 year is not much, and the quality and aesthetics are better....the labor is essentially the same.
Again, I would argue that a good architect can design something that will far surpass a modular in terms of reflecting you and your family without a huge difference in cost. But...don't make the mistake of paying the architect on a percentage fee basis...which penalizes them for saving you money in construction costs...pay them either on a fixed fee, or hourly basis. My opinion of course. Best wishes.
thanks. again, great advice. the prefab house that i'm looking at seems to be quite well constructed and designed. some of the materials are more on the affordable side, but they are tasteful, natural materials. apparently there are also many options to customize the prefab house at additional costs. i've got some shopping and research to do. it will be a tough decision.
johnL
sorry if I missed it above...
please take care to figure out who's (and for how much) doing the site work, siting the structure, delivering the utilities, negotiating the different trades, and assembling all the pieces. I understand that this cost is not insignificant with a prefab (no more than a traditional construction, but not necessarily advertised as part of the true cost).
you may try searching dwell's forum for people with experience going through this process.
i dont know what area of the country you live in (or if you have a flat site, etc) so i cant for sure say what buildings costs would be but frankly, in my experience here in LA pre-fab is, in theory, a good idea, but in reality not significantly cheaper than a custom house if you are careful with your choices.
soleproprietor has really hit the nail on the head with the cons of going prefab... and it isnt really prefab anyway-- you'll find in the end that it is, in a sense, as customed designed as an architect-designed house with basically less options to choose from. we're doing a house for $150/sf, wood frame, and are quite happy with the results.
A little off topic and just for reference,
In my side of the world, and mainly in South America, a house with good materials, that would be comparable with US standards for insulation and security, mostly concrete frame and hollow brick masonry, carpeting, kitchen and bath equipment, etc. should never exceed 180 $ / sqr. Meter, that is almost 1/3 of your costs in the US, the only materials that would be left out in this calculations are special PVC widows with double glazing, etc.
60% difference is a lot isn’t it?
Where would you guys place that significant difference?
And how are the prices in Europe?
If any Europeans on the forum?
And elsewhere?
Asia?
Labor... just compare how much the people doing the actual building are paid. Here laborers/carpenters etc. are likely paid from $15/hr on the low end to $40/hr and up for a carpenter, etc. On top of that straight labor cost, the employer/contractor has to pay worker's compensation and general liability insurance, which can be very high, esp. in California. Add to that the cost of basic building materials which has recently skyrocketed, the cost of fixtures, tile etc. which are likely much higher in the US, as well as building department and engineering fees, and you will begin to see where the difference comes from. It is not uncommon for "custom" projects (meaning designed by an architect) in the LA area to cost $350-$450/sq.ft. We have a small design/build office and are finding that we really can't build for less than $200/sq.ft., unless it's for ourselves or very standard "match existing" add-ons.
woops, that last post was from me, not my partner who was logged in...
Here is one firm that does a good job of splitting the difference, if you will:
www.massiearchitecture.com
Youmay have found this already (it's in the links) but it's a decent recource on prefab stuff:
http://www.fabprefab.com/
do you think recent huricanes will have a negative effect on prefab trailer type of design sales? i think it will be a long time for people to forget the images of blown trailer parks. even if they want to invest in one in a non huricane region.
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