Ok newbie. I can see that a trawl of the internet is the first port of call for those who don't have a library membership and are looking to cut down research time in favour of binge drinking and shagging. Send me your thesis brief and I will complete the entire work for you for a small fee.
That's a borad theme your basing your thesis on. What's your point precisely? Why do you want to know if these things have the same origin? How far in time you want to go to prove your point? How will this history of art and this research on possible common origins say something relevant today? Does it relate to the greek muses, to the beaux arts academy, to the renaissance...?
LOL, Bots. You mean you would actually force our new friend to do MORE keystrokes to send you his file? That presumes anything has been put on paper already, which I'd bet money against.
A thesis is an assumtion and an argument. What is yours? To me it appears to be a subject of interest which has been researched a gazillion times by people with much more experience and insight then you. Since your professors didn't it explain it to you here is an example of a thesis statement that broaches your topic of interest.
"Early modern architecture owes many of its ideas to Russian Supremacist painting through its use of layering simple geometric forms into a space/canvas devoid of surrounding context and consequence."
My sample statement has an assumtion- "Early modern architecture owes many of its ideas to Russian Supremacist painting"
and an argument- "through its use of layering simple geometric forms into a space/canvas devoid of surrounding context and consequence."
Come back with your own thesis statement and I will tell you what books may be of help.
pri, jg's comment is a great one - and necessary. i would add that, by developing a position/argument as he described, it will help you edit. any ONE of the relationships above has too much potential grist for a thesis, much less all of them.
you need to zero in on the specific relationship/dialectic that you want to explore - and then get MORE specific. if you keep things to vague, broad, and open-ended you'll never get to a strategy or even a tight enough argument because there will be too many variables.
this will be hard, but not as hard as taking on all of cultural history in your thesis project.
my professors have benn discouraging me in picking up something like this ,, . precisely , i want to prove that the origins of all art forms are similar ,, as all begin from desires , whims, or personal searches, or a self discovered message to be conveyed in one form or the other.
further, each of them have a relationship, their attributes being common , if i am being too vague, i'll give you an example ,
like balance
which stands true for all arts, but in different ways, and each art has a different way of representing it.
in painting, it is about the balance of colour,
while , in dance, it is the body , and more though, how the dance posture is is harmonized with the sound of music.
further, , as per the theory of wassily kandinsky, the quantum of colour - denoting a particul tone/pitch etc of sound.
these relationships amuse me,
but am still very unclear about what exactly i want to prove and get out of the whole study.
So make your thesis about kandinsky, balance, dance and space.
There's a reason everyone here, and your professors, are telling you your topic is too general.
proving that the origins of all art forms are similar is a very dubious thesis, because you have set yourself the task of proving your proposition; and you have to make some fairly debatable statements regarding how various arts 'began'.
you aren't giving yourself any limits to work within, which is a big mistake.
observations on 'balance' and implications in the various arts could make a thesis.
analysis of tone/pitch/spatial relationships of colors/sounds in kandinsky could make a thesis.
a pattern of sublimated desire in the arts could make a thesis...though it's probably still too big a topic.
your first statement ("i want to prove that the origins of all art forms are similar...") sounds like a unified theory of everything, something that a VERY accomplished philosopher, art historian, or theorist might do over the course of a career worth of work. i can't imagine that you know enough, have enough time, or have the research resources available to truly go after this subject.
c'mon, go easy on yourself, friend. don't miss the point of doing a thesis: in a lot of ways it's just like any other project > the difference not being primarily in its scope (bigger, more, proof, universal pronouncements about the state of things) but in its intentionality (setting a goal and pursuing it consistently and rigorously).
agree with mr ward. unifying theories don't fly very well any way cuz they need to ignore too many details and variations to work.
in response to your thoughts on balance, expression, etc... seems you are thinking about high-brow art, which is quite rational and formal to begin with; and in some ways not very expressive at all. that you can find a connection tween kandinsky and music is easy, but to find a connection between say a cave painting from lascaux, hip-hop, and a walmart box would be more difficult. i bring these three up as they are all art for everyday life and not made as formal decoration, if you get my meaning. you might find a connection between them and say, oh, Fragonard for example...but i can't think why it would matter...
commonalities between lascaux and hiphop would be a fun topic - bragging, storytelling, one-upmanship, etc. also because both can be thought of as a kind of folk art. translation from cave painting through the ancient tradition of the griot (keeper of the community's stories) to the country/folk/blues artists and then rap artist.
lascaux > walmart would be harder. maybe if you filtered it through venturi and scott-brown 'decorated shed' writings and referenced david byrne's thoughts on architecture from 'true stories'.
Sep 8, 05 10:32 am ·
·
Do a thesis on the commonality of brainwashing within architectural education within say that last two to three decades. Brainwashing in the sense of becoming blind to what is otherwise self evident. For example, is the Villa Savoye really a house? Yes, it's design intention was for it to be a house, but that's not what it really turned out to be, is it?
That would be a great topic for a thesis rita. Since it has probably been a museum for a very long time, after being a ruin, and before that for a short period an unsatisfying shelter for its inhabitants.
following the twig to the branch to the trunk
a 'crossdiscipinary' work, an explicit trace/simultaneity between 2 or more specifics, cited personal/professional relationships... stellar constellations of artists or/and architects (bloomsberries, team x, arts'n'craft gatherings, doxiades' cruises...)
and 'origin', in such a case, is a suspect word that doesnt necessarily mean what it says it says (vis a vis this most positivist of words..'proof') it means. origins are history's blind spots,
the mythical and the real confounded. the differences between the vitruvius,the laugier( cabane) and the viollet-le-duc hits are the differences between the 'first man's (the woman was busy coming up with petty schemes with snakes) as envisaged by the different author-ities. vitruvius' was a 'finder'..a mimicer of nature's imprints, laugier was a conceptualizer, viollet's was a maker...the closest to the greek techne model.
also this melting 'origins' into 'having commonality' as if they naturally belong to one another.it could easily be a case of cane(cain) and abel depending on the specifics.
Strech the last few pages of Francis Chings 'form space & order'...i suppose that makes your thesis complete :) ..........go to think of it ,isnt that most peoples thesis
Sep 8, 05 11:44 am ·
·
French, I was yesterday thinking of Savoye as a museum, perhaps specifically a museum of Modern architecture even?
What seems to be most common among creation/origin myths is indeed duality. The first paragraphs of Genesis, for example, is replete with dualities, and the notion of (generally good and evil) twins is found in creation/origin myths from all over the globe.
Maybe it's time to again publish online the dual second chapters on "Duality" from The Timepiece of Humanity.
i led a studio this summer in which we collaborated with a dance class and choreographed a dance piece based on analysis and impressions of 5 buildings: alsop's ocad, saarinen's dulles, hadid's cac, bramante's tempietto, and brinkman/van der vlugt's van nelle factory. both dancers and architecture students participated in drawing exercises, movement sequences, and imrovisational exercises, then teamed up to address the characteristics of each building and to work on the movements that each suggested. the piece was called 'how can architecture move you?'
i know, i just like the quote. a friend of mine used it as the basis for her thesis. a dance studio. though i've often enjoyed the idea of a home built like the set for singing in the rain with mr. kelly. to be able to walk inside my home, throw my hat, and have steps to jump off of, an old gas street light to swing around on...., a minature trolley, that's really my couch but goes around the house from room corner to street corner. exuberance. not a space to dance within, but a space with parts that dance with you.
pri, and if your professors are discouraging you, fuck em. if it feels right, do research, make a little five minute presentation to convince them, give clarity to where you think you're going; forget the destination for the time being, it is not as important, and if you put in the extra time and still feel like it's something you wanna do and your professors still have doubts.....fuck em, give it all you got and do it anyway.
I don't think it is helpful to say "fuck the professors". This guy does not have a thesis, his professors are right to discourage him.
prl: listen to your professors. You are paying 30 gran a year to learn, not to be a bombastic know-it-all; we got enough of those in the profession already.
- one that doubles the one (one becomes one's own twin - dostoyevsky's double, the jungian shadow, the freudian triplets, jackal and hyde) it is the crucible of psychoanalysis, which itself works as a
discursive mirror (what are the oedipal and electra complexes (but not disorders, there is nothing 'wrong' per se in having a complex-the paradox of psychoanalysis) but
reflections of family members bouncing off each other, and schizophrenia seen as a fatal misalignment in that internal mirror,picking up askew unrecognizably hermetic reflections that do not correspond with the norm ). the mythological pater liber of this
archetype is, as always, dionysus. the god who wears masks, the whimsical divine camp youth and the terrible god, the god closest to and yet farthest away from people. of course, dionysus is other gods at other moments. names are not always so tenable.
- one that, through the delicately whimsical but most tenacious agency of similarity, eventually collapses the distance between duality, especially when twinned with the whimsy of play or death... cronenberg's dead ringers is an uneasy ode on that. twinship becomes a singularity. and i think this, more important than the good vs evil (which is simply a moral reflection on the structure set up) is the the need for death. it is almost as if twinship is hubris. romulus and remus, cain and abel, the dioscuri castor and pollux (a narrative rife with twinships within twinships), athena and pallas. the greek models set up additional twinship between the mortal and the immortal, with an ironic sense of the preordained. one has to die. is it because there is excess in signification, to many umbilical signs, that it does violence to an orderly world where similarity is more covert hidden thing? and then to absolve, a sacrificial violence affords catharsis?
sex with twins? is that typically of carnivalesque origins, sex with freaks, abominations, mutants of signification?
Sep 8, 05 5:03 pm ·
·
...and none of that changes "what seems to be most common among creation/origin myths is indeed duality." And one of the twins of creation myths winds up killing his other.
my posting doesnt attempt at changing yours. you neednt feel threatened when i post apropos yours rita dear. or do you only feel
comforted in a milieu of admiring peers and paper tiger cubs ?
how no(v)el coward of you
off to buy cherries and watch the witches of eastwick now
Sep 8, 05 6:09 pm ·
·
That's funny, because I bought some soft pretzels yesterday and then on a lark watched Muriel's Wedding, and then this morning there was a message on my answering machine (I don't hear the phone ringing when I'm asleep in the air-conditoning) and low and behold it was my cousin Alfred calling from where ever he's now living in Australia. I haven't spoken with Alfred in eight years.
When's the best time in the eastern standard time zone to call Australia at a decent hour in Australia? And can anyone suggest a cheap way to make an international call. I don't carry a long distance provider with my present phone service.
whore, i dont' admire rita. i love her. there's a big difference. and i know "fuck the professors" is a bit extreme, and it can be, but pri seems to be "feeling" his/her way towards something, and i think this to be a wise choice, and thus recommended they do more research, a bit more focus in order to clarify in his own mind, as well as theirs, his concept/idea of his thesis. sure, 30,000 is a lot of cash to piss it away by our own stubborn minds, and i absolutely loved most of my professors, though, surely, i hear even professors are wrong at times.....gasp! though this may only be a myth or a nasty rumour....one can never tell.
and whore, baby please, simply because i use a different side of this fabulous language it does not, by any means imply, or give you the shitforbrains to assume that i am, indeed, a cub. ya old hooch. tata.
are the origins common ? can we prove it ?
art - design - architecture
music - architecture
dance - architecture
poetry - architecture
painting - architecture . .
am working on my thesis, about art and architecture .
please send some links - i want to know their inter relationship.
thanks.
Ok newbie. I can see that a trawl of the internet is the first port of call for those who don't have a library membership and are looking to cut down research time in favour of binge drinking and shagging. Send me your thesis brief and I will complete the entire work for you for a small fee.
That's a borad theme your basing your thesis on. What's your point precisely? Why do you want to know if these things have the same origin? How far in time you want to go to prove your point? How will this history of art and this research on possible common origins say something relevant today? Does it relate to the greek muses, to the beaux arts academy, to the renaissance...?
LOL, Bots. You mean you would actually force our new friend to do MORE keystrokes to send you his file? That presumes anything has been put on paper already, which I'd bet money against.
A thesis is an assumtion and an argument. What is yours? To me it appears to be a subject of interest which has been researched a gazillion times by people with much more experience and insight then you. Since your professors didn't it explain it to you here is an example of a thesis statement that broaches your topic of interest.
"Early modern architecture owes many of its ideas to Russian Supremacist painting through its use of layering simple geometric forms into a space/canvas devoid of surrounding context and consequence."
My sample statement has an assumtion- "Early modern architecture owes many of its ideas to Russian Supremacist painting"
and an argument- "through its use of layering simple geometric forms into a space/canvas devoid of surrounding context and consequence."
Come back with your own thesis statement and I will tell you what books may be of help.
zing
"music - architecture
dance - architecture
poetry - architecture
painting - architecture"
pri, jg's comment is a great one - and necessary. i would add that, by developing a position/argument as he described, it will help you edit. any ONE of the relationships above has too much potential grist for a thesis, much less all of them.
you need to zero in on the specific relationship/dialectic that you want to explore - and then get MORE specific. if you keep things to vague, broad, and open-ended you'll never get to a strategy or even a tight enough argument because there will be too many variables.
this will be hard, but not as hard as taking on all of cultural history in your thesis project.
thanx guys ...
my professors have benn discouraging me in picking up something like this ,, . precisely , i want to prove that the origins of all art forms are similar ,, as all begin from desires , whims, or personal searches, or a self discovered message to be conveyed in one form or the other.
further, each of them have a relationship, their attributes being common , if i am being too vague, i'll give you an example ,
like balance
which stands true for all arts, but in different ways, and each art has a different way of representing it.
in painting, it is about the balance of colour,
while , in dance, it is the body , and more though, how the dance posture is is harmonized with the sound of music.
further, , as per the theory of wassily kandinsky, the quantum of colour - denoting a particul tone/pitch etc of sound.
these relationships amuse me,
but am still very unclear about what exactly i want to prove and get out of the whole study.
So make your thesis about kandinsky, balance, dance and space.
There's a reason everyone here, and your professors, are telling you your topic is too general.
proving that the origins of all art forms are similar is a very dubious thesis, because you have set yourself the task of proving your proposition; and you have to make some fairly debatable statements regarding how various arts 'began'.
you aren't giving yourself any limits to work within, which is a big mistake.
observations on 'balance' and implications in the various arts could make a thesis.
analysis of tone/pitch/spatial relationships of colors/sounds in kandinsky could make a thesis.
a pattern of sublimated desire in the arts could make a thesis...though it's probably still too big a topic.
your first statement ("i want to prove that the origins of all art forms are similar...") sounds like a unified theory of everything, something that a VERY accomplished philosopher, art historian, or theorist might do over the course of a career worth of work. i can't imagine that you know enough, have enough time, or have the research resources available to truly go after this subject.
c'mon, go easy on yourself, friend. don't miss the point of doing a thesis: in a lot of ways it's just like any other project > the difference not being primarily in its scope (bigger, more, proof, universal pronouncements about the state of things) but in its intentionality (setting a goal and pursuing it consistently and rigorously).
agree with mr ward. unifying theories don't fly very well any way cuz they need to ignore too many details and variations to work.
in response to your thoughts on balance, expression, etc... seems you are thinking about high-brow art, which is quite rational and formal to begin with; and in some ways not very expressive at all. that you can find a connection tween kandinsky and music is easy, but to find a connection between say a cave painting from lascaux, hip-hop, and a walmart box would be more difficult. i bring these three up as they are all art for everyday life and not made as formal decoration, if you get my meaning. you might find a connection between them and say, oh, Fragonard for example...but i can't think why it would matter...
now jump just made this conversation more fun!
commonalities between lascaux and hiphop would be a fun topic - bragging, storytelling, one-upmanship, etc. also because both can be thought of as a kind of folk art. translation from cave painting through the ancient tradition of the griot (keeper of the community's stories) to the country/folk/blues artists and then rap artist.
lascaux > walmart would be harder. maybe if you filtered it through venturi and scott-brown 'decorated shed' writings and referenced david byrne's thoughts on architecture from 'true stories'.
Do a thesis on the commonality of brainwashing within architectural education within say that last two to three decades. Brainwashing in the sense of becoming blind to what is otherwise self evident. For example, is the Villa Savoye really a house? Yes, it's design intention was for it to be a house, but that's not what it really turned out to be, is it?
That would be a great topic for a thesis rita. Since it has probably been a museum for a very long time, after being a ruin, and before that for a short period an unsatisfying shelter for its inhabitants.
following the twig to the branch to the trunk
a 'crossdiscipinary' work, an explicit trace/simultaneity between 2 or more specifics, cited personal/professional relationships... stellar constellations of artists or/and architects (bloomsberries, team x, arts'n'craft gatherings, doxiades' cruises...)
and 'origin', in such a case, is a suspect word that doesnt necessarily mean what it says it says (vis a vis this most positivist of words..'proof') it means. origins are history's blind spots,
the mythical and the real confounded. the differences between the vitruvius,the laugier( cabane) and the viollet-le-duc hits are the differences between the 'first man's (the woman was busy coming up with petty schemes with snakes) as envisaged by the different author-ities. vitruvius' was a 'finder'..a mimicer of nature's imprints, laugier was a conceptualizer, viollet's was a maker...the closest to the greek techne model.
also this melting 'origins' into 'having commonality' as if they naturally belong to one another.it could easily be a case of cane(cain) and abel depending on the specifics.
Strech the last few pages of Francis Chings 'form space & order'...i suppose that makes your thesis complete :) ..........go to think of it ,isnt that most peoples thesis
French, I was yesterday thinking of Savoye as a museum, perhaps specifically a museum of Modern architecture even?
What seems to be most common among creation/origin myths is indeed duality. The first paragraphs of Genesis, for example, is replete with dualities, and the notion of (generally good and evil) twins is found in creation/origin myths from all over the globe.
Maybe it's time to again publish online the dual second chapters on "Duality" from The Timepiece of Humanity.
please do, i'd like to read them.
"talking about love is like dancing about architecture....you just can't do it"
paper tiger-
i led a studio this summer in which we collaborated with a dance class and choreographed a dance piece based on analysis and impressions of 5 buildings: alsop's ocad, saarinen's dulles, hadid's cac, bramante's tempietto, and brinkman/van der vlugt's van nelle factory. both dancers and architecture students participated in drawing exercises, movement sequences, and imrovisational exercises, then teamed up to address the characteristics of each building and to work on the movements that each suggested. the piece was called 'how can architecture move you?'
i know, i just like the quote. a friend of mine used it as the basis for her thesis. a dance studio. though i've often enjoyed the idea of a home built like the set for singing in the rain with mr. kelly. to be able to walk inside my home, throw my hat, and have steps to jump off of, an old gas street light to swing around on...., a minature trolley, that's really my couch but goes around the house from room corner to street corner. exuberance. not a space to dance within, but a space with parts that dance with you.
pri, and if your professors are discouraging you, fuck em. if it feels right, do research, make a little five minute presentation to convince them, give clarity to where you think you're going; forget the destination for the time being, it is not as important, and if you put in the extra time and still feel like it's something you wanna do and your professors still have doubts.....fuck em, give it all you got and do it anyway.
I don't think it is helpful to say "fuck the professors". This guy does not have a thesis, his professors are right to discourage him.
prl: listen to your professors. You are paying 30 gran a year to learn, not to be a bombastic know-it-all; we got enough of those in the profession already.
hits = huts
there are two ends to the archtype thread
- one that doubles the one (one becomes one's own twin - dostoyevsky's double, the jungian shadow, the freudian triplets, jackal and hyde) it is the crucible of psychoanalysis, which itself works as a
discursive mirror (what are the oedipal and electra complexes (but not disorders, there is nothing 'wrong' per se in having a complex-the paradox of psychoanalysis) but
reflections of family members bouncing off each other, and schizophrenia seen as a fatal misalignment in that internal mirror,picking up askew unrecognizably hermetic reflections that do not correspond with the norm ). the mythological pater liber of this
archetype is, as always, dionysus. the god who wears masks, the whimsical divine camp youth and the terrible god, the god closest to and yet farthest away from people. of course, dionysus is other gods at other moments. names are not always so tenable.
- one that, through the delicately whimsical but most tenacious agency of similarity, eventually collapses the distance between duality, especially when twinned with the whimsy of play or death... cronenberg's dead ringers is an uneasy ode on that. twinship becomes a singularity. and i think this, more important than the good vs evil (which is simply a moral reflection on the structure set up) is the the need for death. it is almost as if twinship is hubris. romulus and remus, cain and abel, the dioscuri castor and pollux (a narrative rife with twinships within twinships), athena and pallas. the greek models set up additional twinship between the mortal and the immortal, with an ironic sense of the preordained. one has to die. is it because there is excess in signification, to many umbilical signs, that it does violence to an orderly world where similarity is more covert hidden thing? and then to absolve, a sacrificial violence affords catharsis?
sex with twins? is that typically of carnivalesque origins, sex with freaks, abominations, mutants of signification?
...and none of that changes "what seems to be most common among creation/origin myths is indeed duality." And one of the twins of creation myths winds up killing his other.
my posting doesnt attempt at changing yours. you neednt feel threatened when i post apropos yours rita dear. or do you only feel
comforted in a milieu of admiring peers and paper tiger cubs ?
how no(v)el coward of you
off to buy cherries and watch the witches of eastwick now
That's funny, because I bought some soft pretzels yesterday and then on a lark watched Muriel's Wedding, and then this morning there was a message on my answering machine (I don't hear the phone ringing when I'm asleep in the air-conditoning) and low and behold it was my cousin Alfred calling from where ever he's now living in Australia. I haven't spoken with Alfred in eight years.
When's the best time in the eastern standard time zone to call Australia at a decent hour in Australia? And can anyone suggest a cheap way to make an international call. I don't carry a long distance provider with my present phone service.
after 8:00 PM for their morning, 7:00Pm for the afternoon (9PM there)
thanks a lot +q.
I meant 7am for around 9pm there
whore, i dont' admire rita. i love her. there's a big difference. and i know "fuck the professors" is a bit extreme, and it can be, but pri seems to be "feeling" his/her way towards something, and i think this to be a wise choice, and thus recommended they do more research, a bit more focus in order to clarify in his own mind, as well as theirs, his concept/idea of his thesis. sure, 30,000 is a lot of cash to piss it away by our own stubborn minds, and i absolutely loved most of my professors, though, surely, i hear even professors are wrong at times.....gasp! though this may only be a myth or a nasty rumour....one can never tell.
and whore, baby please, simply because i use a different side of this fabulous language it does not, by any means imply, or give you the shitforbrains to assume that i am, indeed, a cub. ya old hooch. tata.
shitforbrains?
cute, fresh flesh
yes.
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