WOW... what a crock. Did you notice that the percentage increase in salary for principals/partners nearly equals the total of the rest of design staff/interns? That's where those overall salary increases are coming from. If you're not at the top, you're only getting 3% bumps annually, not 10%.
The attitude toward interns is enlightening. They seem to want a workforce of minimum wage drones and are a little put off that we're savvy about our careers. Things like competing for talent, putting people on good projects and not pigeon-holing the staff seem to be negatives.
Sartre would be proud of the hell that is the AIA. Truly sick fuckers those presenters are if they presented that garbage with a straight face.
and Funga, im not sure of what your particular experiences are but that compensation survey does NOT make architecture look like a well paid profession. In light that many grad school programs now have or are approaching $40,000/ year bills, working for 34-45K as an intern and topping out at 60-70K as a middle manager is not well paid.
Perhaps the AIA should spend less time constructing post rationalized justifications for exploiting interns, less time inventing sanctimonious terminology like "psychic income" and better invest their resources towards less self laudatory endeavors.
And the AIA wonders why they are fast becoming a souless hollow set of letters.
i just want to make clear - the robert smith, aia who wrote about non-monetary compensation is NOT the same robert smith who seranades caterpillar girls and falls in love on fridays.
this robert smith iai is targeting principals to evade pay-raises with self-esteem and peer-approval:
jaime: the barista at cafe coffee makes more, but I'm a DESIGNER
jule: you're an ass
meg brown (jeez could that name be more DULL? hi i'm meg; i'm brown, or brun if you liked french class!) is warning principals and managers of the evils of shady interns - who will take your careful, guarded shit miller hawkinson secrets and take them to another offices, at ANY time.
Suture - agree on the psycic income. My rent, food, water and lights aren't psycic. I'm going to need real income to those.
There is a neat contradiction in the presentation: interns wanting to be in interesting projects and move up the ladder are "challenges", but a way of getting around paying us is by putting us on good projects so we can be paid via ESP (Extra Salary Perception?). So the solution is the problem.
I also enjoyed the bit of hand-wringing over young architects not registering. Maybe if they showed us a few benefits of being part of the AIA, rather than joining to join, interns would be so ambivalent about registering.
They also need to understand that NCARB and the AIA are looked upon by many interns as a gigantic money siphoning scam. The more money I have to give them, the less I want anything to do with them.
just to clarify from my perspective a bit.. when they speak of registration, they are only speaking about interns working towards becomming licensed.. not joining the AIA which is something separate.. licensure is important.. the AIA isnt so much..
also..everyone likes to get upset about their odd comment about psychic income, but to me that makes sense..if you really loved what you were a part of, and felt it was important and you were involved,, you would be willing to work for less money than otherwise.. look at all the people who work for Peter Eisenman or Zaha Hadid or Rem Koolhaas or Richard Meier for zero or little income...they do it because they feel part of something bigger than just business.. people who work at HOK dont feel like their porjects are necesarrily important or will be studied in history class and so they tend to foxus more on the fact that they arent getting paid well, etc... so to me that makes sense.
Joining the AIA and getting registered are not independent of each other. To be registered, dues have to be paid. If you don't pay your yearly dues...you lose your registration.
yes, you have to pay a maintenance fee to your state's board of registration to keep your registration, but that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AIA.
you have to pay additional dues to be a member of the aia, and that has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR REGISTRATION - except that you have to be registered to be aia or you can be non registered and be an associate aia.
stop spreading misinformation without checking out the facts. please.
good comment, hotsies. I think psychic income is most affordable when you're young, child-free, mortgage-free, etc.
And as usual Steven is right - gravitas, AIA and registration have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Joining the AIA is strictly a voluntary desicion. But you have to pay your state of registration annual dues to mainatin registration as an architect - just like doctors, hairdressers, etc.
grav, aia and registration are seperate (ncarb and local state boards control registration), but you do have to be 'registered' to be a full member in AIA (or practice architecture as defined by ncarb).
psychic income...it seems they weren't really discussing ways to improve income/project quality/etc for architects/interns, but rather ways to manipulate our 'perceptions' and 'feelings' of these things.
"...You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many are so hopelessly dependent on the system, they'll fight to protect it." the matrix.
hey, I'm more than willing to say that some psychic income would be nice now and then to improve my current situation. but then again, I'm in liberty's catergory of young, child-free, and mortgage-free....
Gravitas is not wrong in the language used. It takes a patient person to understand the distinction being drawn. If your gripe is with the AIA fine, with your state board fine. But we're in this together right? I don't know any old people logging on and reading this, and I'm certain the person who signs my check will never understand why it is we are so interested in appropriate compensation for our work. It appears to me that "Psychic income" was used to beg the question "Are your interns bored to tears by your managerial neglect".
along the lines of the psychic income.....our office claims a sort of "benefit income"; the thought is that our flexible hours, 45 hour workweeks and warm/fuzzy environment merit a lower base pay than our competitors. We do not follow the aia numbers, despite having a former aia president in our midst.
Psychic income needs to go hand in hand with monetary income. Did you see the pyramid of needs? We need money more than anything else to survive.
It grates at me when someone will post asking about where the uber cool firms are and don't care that it pays $14/hr for 60+ hours a week and no OT. "I just want the experience." Spare me.
I don't care how great that psychic income is, by accepting poor monetary pay for your talents you are lowering the standards of pay across the board in this profession. I do not for a minute buy the bullshit that star architects have nothing to pay because they spend all this unbilled time designing for competitions. I don't know any star architects that are hurting, but I know a number of interns that can barely make their rent.
If OMA, Foster, Ghery, you name it, want to run sweatshops and pay little or nothing interns should be outraged and refuse to work there. There are excellent firms with solid designers that treat their interns well. It's ridiculous to work for someone just because of some famous building they've done...and use that as an excuse for getting used.
Qualifying psychic income as part of total compensation is a diss-service to the profession. I'm disgusted.
I'm really surprised at the level of intellect behind the arguments that this convention put forth. I guess they are assuming that most architects have no business training or savvy at all.
What is really sad is that a bunch of losers are going to start using this Psychic income argument when interviewing interns. Really, only a handful of architects can argue that their projects warrant lower payment. There are so many architects (especially in the NYC area) who think that their work is outstanding. I mean really, do you thik you are he first person to do a minimalist Soho loft?
Face it, most people will only take a salary hit for a job if they think it will greatly advance their career through either a better job later on or potential clients of their own someday.
is there a way to invite Robert P. Smith, AIAManaging Principal Culpepper, McAuliffe and Meaders, Inc. to particate in THIS discussion? I think he owes all young architects, at minimum, the curtesy of further explanating his ideas of "psychic income" and how it might pay student loan bills.
i'm not sure what the big fuss is over the 'psychic income.' smith doesn't seem to be advocating that firms pay their employees less if the working conditions are great or does the aia seem to be reporting 'psychic income' in the first part of the compensation report.
simply put, i think smith is saying that pay isn't everything and that designers need to be challenged in order to be happy. the two aren't mutually exclusive.
I don't really think he would have out-right said it in a powerpoint we pretty easily got access to. It seemed a pretty lightly glossed way to justify low wages and I don’t like the idea of a boss trying to quantify how much I enjoy my job into my payscale.
And what I really want to know is if they plan on paying me more if everything on the psychic-income side is in the negative?
I dont think this PwrPnt presentation was meant to teach employers smarter ways to screw employees.. I think it was to educate firm principals/partners/architects on how to retain talent, and how to recruit better talent. The point to me seems to show that money isnt everything and you should try to retain talent not just by giving quality pay, but by also giving them challenging work to pursue. because, their happiness is due to more than the number son their dollar paycheck, but are also from their job satisfaction... you guys should relax some.. really....
salaries by AIA
did anyone took a look to this document???
www.aia.org/siteobjects/files/econ_2005conventionpres.ppt
it make the architeecture looks a liek a well paid profesion
WOW... what a crock. Did you notice that the percentage increase in salary for principals/partners nearly equals the total of the rest of design staff/interns? That's where those overall salary increases are coming from. If you're not at the top, you're only getting 3% bumps annually, not 10%.
The attitude toward interns is enlightening. They seem to want a workforce of minimum wage drones and are a little put off that we're savvy about our careers. Things like competing for talent, putting people on good projects and not pigeon-holing the staff seem to be negatives.
im sorry but what the fuck is...
"Psychic income?????????""
is this a sick joke????
Sartre would be proud of the hell that is the AIA. Truly sick fuckers those presenters are if they presented that garbage with a straight face.
and Funga, im not sure of what your particular experiences are but that compensation survey does NOT make architecture look like a well paid profession. In light that many grad school programs now have or are approaching $40,000/ year bills, working for 34-45K as an intern and topping out at 60-70K as a middle manager is not well paid.
Perhaps the AIA should spend less time constructing post rationalized justifications for exploiting interns, less time inventing sanctimonious terminology like "psychic income" and better invest their resources towards less self laudatory endeavors.
And the AIA wonders why they are fast becoming a souless hollow set of letters.
i just want to make clear - the robert smith, aia who wrote about non-monetary compensation is NOT the same robert smith who seranades caterpillar girls and falls in love on fridays.
this robert smith iai is targeting principals to evade pay-raises with self-esteem and peer-approval:
jaime: the barista at cafe coffee makes more, but I'm a DESIGNER
jule: you're an ass
meg brown (jeez could that name be more DULL? hi i'm meg; i'm brown, or brun if you liked french class!) is warning principals and managers of the evils of shady interns - who will take your careful, guarded shit miller hawkinson secrets and take them to another offices, at ANY time.
i love these people i really do
Suture - agree on the psycic income. My rent, food, water and lights aren't psycic. I'm going to need real income to those.
There is a neat contradiction in the presentation: interns wanting to be in interesting projects and move up the ladder are "challenges", but a way of getting around paying us is by putting us on good projects so we can be paid via ESP (Extra Salary Perception?). So the solution is the problem.
I also enjoyed the bit of hand-wringing over young architects not registering. Maybe if they showed us a few benefits of being part of the AIA, rather than joining to join, interns would be so ambivalent about registering.
They also need to understand that NCARB and the AIA are looked upon by many interns as a gigantic money siphoning scam. The more money I have to give them, the less I want anything to do with them.
chaglang,
just to clarify from my perspective a bit.. when they speak of registration, they are only speaking about interns working towards becomming licensed.. not joining the AIA which is something separate.. licensure is important.. the AIA isnt so much..
also..everyone likes to get upset about their odd comment about psychic income, but to me that makes sense..if you really loved what you were a part of, and felt it was important and you were involved,, you would be willing to work for less money than otherwise.. look at all the people who work for Peter Eisenman or Zaha Hadid or Rem Koolhaas or Richard Meier for zero or little income...they do it because they feel part of something bigger than just business.. people who work at HOK dont feel like their porjects are necesarrily important or will be studied in history class and so they tend to foxus more on the fact that they arent getting paid well, etc... so to me that makes sense.
Joining the AIA and getting registered are not independent of each other. To be registered, dues have to be paid. If you don't pay your yearly dues...you lose your registration.
Can psychic income help me feed my 2 yr. old and save for his college fund?
gravitas-
yes, you have to pay a maintenance fee to your state's board of registration to keep your registration, but that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AIA.
you have to pay additional dues to be a member of the aia, and that has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR REGISTRATION - except that you have to be registered to be aia or you can be non registered and be an associate aia.
stop spreading misinformation without checking out the facts. please.
good comment, hotsies. I think psychic income is most affordable when you're young, child-free, mortgage-free, etc.
And as usual Steven is right - gravitas, AIA and registration have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Joining the AIA is strictly a voluntary desicion. But you have to pay your state of registration annual dues to mainatin registration as an architect - just like doctors, hairdressers, etc.
grav, aia and registration are seperate (ncarb and local state boards control registration), but you do have to be 'registered' to be a full member in AIA (or practice architecture as defined by ncarb).
psychic income...it seems they weren't really discussing ways to improve income/project quality/etc for architects/interns, but rather ways to manipulate our 'perceptions' and 'feelings' of these things.
"...You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many are so hopelessly dependent on the system, they'll fight to protect it." the matrix.
don't take the blue pill.
hey, I'm more than willing to say that some psychic income would be nice now and then to improve my current situation. but then again, I'm in liberty's catergory of young, child-free, and mortgage-free....
Gravitas is not wrong in the language used. It takes a patient person to understand the distinction being drawn. If your gripe is with the AIA fine, with your state board fine. But we're in this together right? I don't know any old people logging on and reading this, and I'm certain the person who signs my check will never understand why it is we are so interested in appropriate compensation for our work. It appears to me that "Psychic income" was used to beg the question "Are your interns bored to tears by your managerial neglect".
thank you for clarifying my point steven ward. I apologize for the perceived misinformation.
that link crashed my computer...yet another reason to hate the AIA
along the lines of the psychic income.....our office claims a sort of "benefit income"; the thought is that our flexible hours, 45 hour workweeks and warm/fuzzy environment merit a lower base pay than our competitors. We do not follow the aia numbers, despite having a former aia president in our midst.
Psychic income needs to go hand in hand with monetary income. Did you see the pyramid of needs? We need money more than anything else to survive.
It grates at me when someone will post asking about where the uber cool firms are and don't care that it pays $14/hr for 60+ hours a week and no OT. "I just want the experience." Spare me.
I don't care how great that psychic income is, by accepting poor monetary pay for your talents you are lowering the standards of pay across the board in this profession. I do not for a minute buy the bullshit that star architects have nothing to pay because they spend all this unbilled time designing for competitions. I don't know any star architects that are hurting, but I know a number of interns that can barely make their rent.
If OMA, Foster, Ghery, you name it, want to run sweatshops and pay little or nothing interns should be outraged and refuse to work there. There are excellent firms with solid designers that treat their interns well. It's ridiculous to work for someone just because of some famous building they've done...and use that as an excuse for getting used.
Qualifying psychic income as part of total compensation is a diss-service to the profession. I'm disgusted.
I'm really surprised at the level of intellect behind the arguments that this convention put forth. I guess they are assuming that most architects have no business training or savvy at all.
What is really sad is that a bunch of losers are going to start using this Psychic income argument when interviewing interns. Really, only a handful of architects can argue that their projects warrant lower payment. There are so many architects (especially in the NYC area) who think that their work is outstanding. I mean really, do you thik you are he first person to do a minimalist Soho loft?
Face it, most people will only take a salary hit for a job if they think it will greatly advance their career through either a better job later on or potential clients of their own someday.
i was waiting for somebody to mercifully let us know that the slide show was some kind of dark comedy...
...the truth is that it was scheduled as part of the AIA 2005 convention.
http://www.aia.org/aiarchitect/thisweek05/tw0415/0415convention_classes.htm
is there a way to invite Robert P. Smith, AIAManaging Principal Culpepper, McAuliffe and Meaders, Inc. to particate in THIS discussion? I think he owes all young architects, at minimum, the curtesy of further explanating his ideas of "psychic income" and how it might pay student loan bills.
i'm not sure what the big fuss is over the 'psychic income.' smith doesn't seem to be advocating that firms pay their employees less if the working conditions are great or does the aia seem to be reporting 'psychic income' in the first part of the compensation report.
simply put, i think smith is saying that pay isn't everything and that designers need to be challenged in order to be happy. the two aren't mutually exclusive.
I don't really think he would have out-right said it in a powerpoint we pretty easily got access to. It seemed a pretty lightly glossed way to justify low wages and I don’t like the idea of a boss trying to quantify how much I enjoy my job into my payscale.
And what I really want to know is if they plan on paying me more if everything on the psychic-income side is in the negative?
I dont think this PwrPnt presentation was meant to teach employers smarter ways to screw employees.. I think it was to educate firm principals/partners/architects on how to retain talent, and how to recruit better talent. The point to me seems to show that money isnt everything and you should try to retain talent not just by giving quality pay, but by also giving them challenging work to pursue. because, their happiness is due to more than the number son their dollar paycheck, but are also from their job satisfaction... you guys should relax some.. really....
i get psycho income from my job...
fafafafa fafafafafafa better run run run run away....
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