this is a great website where people from all around present projects...a lot in sketchup. spend some time looking at the excellant (and some bad) projects.
sketchup is a great program to design BOXES! I know your design vocabulary goes beyond that primitive shape, Veux. 3ds Max; because anything else would be uncivilized (anything = sketchup)!
agreed on the geometric limitations. but i wouldn't go as far as to rule it out. i think it's a great piece of software. it's not meant to make blobs or intricate curvilinear forms. but it is a great tool for studying basic masses in 3d. you can make a lot of things faster in sketchup than in 3ds or otherwise.
in the end it's just another tool you use. you have to use it appropriately and respect it's advantages and limitations w.r.t. other software.
yeah! make sure you don't design anything that looks like a box, it might be soooo boorring, make sure your designs are really entertaining and eye-catching!, after all that's what counts
there's nothing like like a cool , dynamic shape to create a grrrrreat rendering!
you can also very easily (from what i understand) take the SU model into 3ds....when it is time to get more acurate in the rendering.
as for a modeling tool at work you are not just interested in getting the perfect rendering...you are trying to communicate ideas to a client. the real benefit of sketchup is that you can communicate complex ideas VERY simply to a client who is not used to reading drawings!
this is why i just love a program like archiCAD...you don't have to use a seperate program. (before using a 3d type program none of my small projects had the money to spend to get a 3d model built...) now i get an acceptable model to show clients and they can understand what we are doing!
sketchup had been great from what i understand to even use...since a 3d model looks so finished. sketchup allows the client to feel they still can comment...
I haven't tried it yet, but supposedly the new release of SketchUp gives options to create meshes and terrains and that sort of thing... for all of you out there who like to design blobs.
I'd have to agree with Ants. I can create a nice looking model in a very short amount of time with that software. It's when people try to render directly from the program or use the poorly drawn textured surfaces in a final critique that makes studio instructors - and other students - cringe. Use it well and appropriately, and it can be a very nice addition to your toolbox.
anyone ever do a sketchup model, then export as a dwg to take light/material rendering further in 3dsmax? im just asking because its alot easier to make shapes in sketchup than in max...
It works... OK. SketchUp does its layer system kind of weird. Instead of saving entire objects by layer (like, say, Rhino or VIZ would), it saves surfaces and edges by layer, so it gets a little complicated when you bring it into MAX and want to start assigning materials. Worth a try, though.
I usually end up rendering the model in hidden line mode and hand coloring the JPG in Illustrator... but that's just a passing fad with me.
You know this program is great when meeting with indecisive clients, asking for this and that and you are able to chat with them and basically shoot out a 3d to shut them up...feed them their idea
Thats the benefit of this thing...and its getting better integrated
LBG: You can export a sketchup model to 3ds using the materials from sketchup as layers in the max model, instead of the sketchup layers.
I would say that sketchup's greatest asset is also it's greatest flaw. "3D for everyone". You can get some amazingly shitty images out of it by making it extremely easy for every tom dick and harry to "render" their latest and greatest bird bath, BUT you can also get some great, quick, and I would even go so far as to say finished images - if you hone methods enough. Renderings don't always have to be photoreal = especially early in the project (school or real world).
As someone said previously, its a great tool to have in the toolbox, and not an end all. A philips head screwdriver probably wouldn't be so stellar at pounding nails would it?
I personally have to disagree with the whole thinking that all images coming out of sketchup suck. It all depends on what you do with the rendering... I typically hate renderings that people take straight out of their 3d program, instead taking the time to make it approachable.
A little time adding things and enviroments in photoshop goes a hell of a long way. My problem with most people's renderings is how they come off as unoccupiable and cold.
More and more I find myself taking a hiddenline rendering from sketchup with shadows cast, and just recreating the scene in photoshop. This normally takes much less time than throwing it into max, applying decent materials get all of the mapping right, setting the lighting just so, and then the waiting to get the product or at least a decent enough one for basic photoshopping while the final one cranks.
If i want something really polished I'll render the lighting in lightscape or in max (using either mental ray or vray). I'll use the sketchup model to setup my scene and my views, take the boss for a spin through the model and discuss changes and the overall feel that is desired, export a decent quality tif for backdrop work and let the final render crank in max.
I think the real value in something like sketchup is the ease... the ease of use the ease of simple readability and the ease of looking at something that is simple and ugly and does not aspire to be more. It's kind of the quick trash cut and tape paper model of the 3d world. anyone that has had to walk through a max model with a teacher or boss realizes the frustration that comes along with it. Sometimes things don't appear and are hard to understand, this what I appreciate about SU is that I can take something and show it to anyone I want and the will be able to understand the jist of it.
yeah if want something sexy and polished this isnt the program for you but if you want something that fits well into the middle of your workflow its perfect.
oh yeah and as far as exporting things to max... you can select everything that is a paticular material and then group them. Repeat this for all of the things you want to be able to apply different materials to in max and when exporting tell it do layers based on geometry and viola! perfecto!
Isn't the phrase nice-sketchup rendering an oxymoron, although you may be able to export skectchup files into other softwares you get 3d garbage when doing so. One of the things that I love about sketchup is that when you make a circle or an arc it requires you to enter the number of sides the shape should have. apparently a circel can have anywhere from 3-100 sides, I always thought they had one. If you're using sketchup you might as well dress up as a clown, because sketchup is a joke.
I checked this thread out beacause I was actually curious to see what some people are doing with Sketchup, and as usual it just turns out to be a complete waste of my time. These forums often start with a practical and interesting topic, but generally sink into a bitchfest by a bunch of total dorks! I could care less if you think FormZ is better than Sketchup, PC is better than Mac, or whatever. Get a frickin' life already.
It's not impossible to model some fairly complex geometry:
[url=http://www.link.com]One[/http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums//attachment.php?attachmentid=7597&stc=1&d=1133116261]
And using the Cheetah renderer (which is free, I think, but only available for Macs) you can get some pretty clean renders.
hey, gotta love the morons like jamez with the ridiculous comments. first dolt, you have no idea what you are talking about, and second if you spent 2 minutes looking at some of the work people can do with the software, then you might be able to frame a coherent argument against the software; like gee that looks cool, but did it take longer to make on SU, than it would on software x, y or z?
bryan with http://www.form-ula.net/ has a lot of great material on their website, and if you check out his myspace page - the link i posted at the top is to some of his SU work - you will find more work.
tell me that sucks.
it's limited yes, but it's far from useless, unless you happen to be jamez and then i think it's the user and not the tool or maybe the tool is the user...
It's so funny to see that some people just bashing SketchUp, because they either don't know how to use well or can't make up/cover their bad designs with fancy rendering. I'm pretty sure someone can render poop in 3D Max with full raytrace with multiple light sources, but hey, it's still poop. Someone also said it's only good to design boxes? I guess everyone is working at places like Gehry's firm now, eh?
Why can't people just say that they can't use or (don't know) SketchUp well but they are good at other programs? Rhino is awesome program to create nice blobs, and FormZ is relatively easy to use and can produce nice renderings, too. And of course, there's 3D Max; if you have to pick one rendering software to learn, I guess that will be it. SketchUp alone (I'm talking rendering here) can't compete with other powerful 3D programs, but there are some add-on rendering programs out there for SketchUp... like Maxwell, Vue, Cheetah, and VRAY.
I've been playing with VRAY for SketchUp for a month now, and I'm very impressed. It's add-on, so you don't have to worry about exporting and stuff. SketchUp users should give it a try (beta version is free until they release the final one... you need to sign up to download at here Here's some sample renderings from their user forum site.
I couldn't agree more, Sketchup is a great tool in the schematic design workflow, way up to client presentations if you know how to tweak your display settings. Being able to rotate the model fairly quickly and transitioning between views / sectional cuts in real time is invauable to conveying the design (making it understandable to the average client). If I need a high-quality render, I just throw it into Maxwell render, love the lighting ambience and ease of use in that renderer. Another thing SK is good for is using its wireframe or trnasparency modes to create diagrammatic models, exploded axonemetrics, and other conceptual diagrams that can be layered, combined, and edited in Photoshop.
And for the record, I also know Max and Form Z. Each program has its strengths and weaknesses, it's just a matter of picking the right tool for the job. Sometimes I do complex geometry in Max, merge and edit with SK, and render in Maxwell.
if you know what you are doing with sketchup, it can be great.
i think people are anti-sketchup sometimes because it is a free program, therefore not worthy of their time. but if you learn it well it can be a great tool.
i cant think of the name of the program, but some guys in my firm do some real nice renders from sketchup and something else. comes out great if you know what youre doing.
i generally find that if someone bashes a program, its because they dont know how to use it
My problem with sketchup is not with the rendering, (I even happen to like the open gl interface and it is very clean and I think that sketchup is positive for the 3d community because it gives grandparents something to do in their free time other than knitting) but the geometry that sketchup produces is garbage. The problem is that people are using sketchup long past the preliminary 'sketching phase' which it was intended for. And it is also very cumbersome to do anything other than a box. When you use sketchup you limit yourself, that is a fact. I can model in FormZ or Rhino way faster than sketchup. And what is up with not having locks on layers! If you actually understand the principles of geometry and topology then you can do what you want fast in any program. Try using sketchup to fabricate parts to actually build a building. Sketchup is f'n clown shoes and if you are using sketchup in an architectural office you are a clown.
so i guess because jamez doesnt like it, we should all abandon sketchup forever. thanks for the advice. i will now advise everyone in my office who uses sketchup to switch to formz or rhino because you know those programs better.
there are ways to improve the geometry and use it past the sketching phase. i have seen very comprehensive models built with sketchup well into construction documents. i dont use it personally because i can model in other programs better than in sketchup. but that is because i have more experience in those programs, not because they are superior.
you dont like sketchup, thats fine, you dont know it as well as other programs, that is fine. calling people clowns is a little ridiculous and an excellent way to prove you are not to be taken seriously. and yes i got the movie reference from the quote, that doesnt change anything
This is why I do not befriend architects everybody is too damn serious, did I say that nobody should use sketchup? No! Did I say cause I don't use it nobody should use it? No! beta, it is a nice drawing, but I wouldn't go around telling people that it is an example of excellence in sketchup.
look jamez, its a pen/pencil/crayon/marker/brick/charcoal or whatever - a tool is a tool, the user decides what it makes it work. can SU do nurbs? no. can it create the greg lynn or gehry work? no. but by what standards did the tools you mention become the be all end all of the design world? i used 3dmax when you were still in high school listening to MC Hammer, i found out early on that while a great tool, i did not want to specialize in the creation of 3d images for the consumption of others sexualized desires. who cares. the images produced never look like the product built. does gehry or lyn or rem, holl know how that software works? fuck no, the hire people to do that shit and become the unmotivated sub-class of worker bees developing "great" images for no ones pleasure but their own.
a few years from now there will be tools that make formz/maya and every other super tool obsolete, do you know what they are? tell me where digital representation is heading, don't tell me where it is or has been.
until then i will grab every tool out there and create whatever i can.
imagine someone telling rauschenburg or pollock or others - you know there is a quicker and better way of doing that, and you are wasting time....ugh!
Nice SketchUp Renderings
so... Any Nice Student/Firm SketchUp renderings out there?
this is one i was proud of coming straight out of sketchup
http://www.archinect.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=25
this is a great website where people from all around present projects...a lot in sketchup. spend some time looking at the excellant (and some bad) projects.
pullpushbar
Do you guys like sketch up,
I use Form z and lightscape
is it easier? I like some of what I see in skecth up, but im not sure...
q
I hate that program.
Why not use a program that is more comprehensive and save yourself the time?
relax spiffy it has its uses, ask bryan....
good for the concept stuff
sketchup is a great program to design BOXES! I know your design vocabulary goes beyond that primitive shape, Veux. 3ds Max; because anything else would be uncivilized (anything = sketchup)!
i agree about its limitations becoming formal directive in design.
i'd stick to formz, or 3dsmax or viz and have more options available.
agreed on the geometric limitations. but i wouldn't go as far as to rule it out. i think it's a great piece of software. it's not meant to make blobs or intricate curvilinear forms. but it is a great tool for studying basic masses in 3d. you can make a lot of things faster in sketchup than in 3ds or otherwise.
in the end it's just another tool you use. you have to use it appropriately and respect it's advantages and limitations w.r.t. other software.
yeah! make sure you don't design anything that looks like a box, it might be soooo boorring, make sure your designs are really entertaining and eye-catching!, after all that's what counts
there's nothing like like a cool , dynamic shape to create a grrrrreat rendering!
you knuckleheads --
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=13716002&imageID=101951466&Mytoken=20050901022020
what was used for this model/rendering?
you can also very easily (from what i understand) take the SU model into 3ds....when it is time to get more acurate in the rendering.
as for a modeling tool at work you are not just interested in getting the perfect rendering...you are trying to communicate ideas to a client. the real benefit of sketchup is that you can communicate complex ideas VERY simply to a client who is not used to reading drawings!
this is why i just love a program like archiCAD...you don't have to use a seperate program. (before using a 3d type program none of my small projects had the money to spend to get a 3d model built...) now i get an acceptable model to show clients and they can understand what we are doing!
sketchup had been great from what i understand to even use...since a 3d model looks so finished. sketchup allows the client to feel they still can comment...
Moratto
i knew i could get your attention, by trying to support SketchUp
check your email
I haven't tried it yet, but supposedly the new release of SketchUp gives options to create meshes and terrains and that sort of thing... for all of you out there who like to design blobs.
I'd have to agree with Ants. I can create a nice looking model in a very short amount of time with that software. It's when people try to render directly from the program or use the poorly drawn textured surfaces in a final critique that makes studio instructors - and other students - cringe. Use it well and appropriately, and it can be a very nice addition to your toolbox.
anyone ever do a sketchup model, then export as a dwg to take light/material rendering further in 3dsmax? im just asking because its alot easier to make shapes in sketchup than in max...
It works... OK. SketchUp does its layer system kind of weird. Instead of saving entire objects by layer (like, say, Rhino or VIZ would), it saves surfaces and edges by layer, so it gets a little complicated when you bring it into MAX and want to start assigning materials. Worth a try, though.
I usually end up rendering the model in hidden line mode and hand coloring the JPG in Illustrator... but that's just a passing fad with me.
You know this program is great when meeting with indecisive clients, asking for this and that and you are able to chat with them and basically shoot out a 3d to shut them up...feed them their idea
Thats the benefit of this thing...and its getting better integrated
LBG: You can export a sketchup model to 3ds using the materials from sketchup as layers in the max model, instead of the sketchup layers.
I would say that sketchup's greatest asset is also it's greatest flaw. "3D for everyone". You can get some amazingly shitty images out of it by making it extremely easy for every tom dick and harry to "render" their latest and greatest bird bath, BUT you can also get some great, quick, and I would even go so far as to say finished images - if you hone methods enough. Renderings don't always have to be photoreal = especially early in the project (school or real world).
As someone said previously, its a great tool to have in the toolbox, and not an end all. A philips head screwdriver probably wouldn't be so stellar at pounding nails would it?
These images were straight outta sketchup:
SketchUp1
SketchUp2
holla.
I personally have to disagree with the whole thinking that all images coming out of sketchup suck. It all depends on what you do with the rendering... I typically hate renderings that people take straight out of their 3d program, instead taking the time to make it approachable.
A little time adding things and enviroments in photoshop goes a hell of a long way. My problem with most people's renderings is how they come off as unoccupiable and cold.
More and more I find myself taking a hiddenline rendering from sketchup with shadows cast, and just recreating the scene in photoshop. This normally takes much less time than throwing it into max, applying decent materials get all of the mapping right, setting the lighting just so, and then the waiting to get the product or at least a decent enough one for basic photoshopping while the final one cranks.
If i want something really polished I'll render the lighting in lightscape or in max (using either mental ray or vray). I'll use the sketchup model to setup my scene and my views, take the boss for a spin through the model and discuss changes and the overall feel that is desired, export a decent quality tif for backdrop work and let the final render crank in max.
I think the real value in something like sketchup is the ease... the ease of use the ease of simple readability and the ease of looking at something that is simple and ugly and does not aspire to be more. It's kind of the quick trash cut and tape paper model of the 3d world. anyone that has had to walk through a max model with a teacher or boss realizes the frustration that comes along with it. Sometimes things don't appear and are hard to understand, this what I appreciate about SU is that I can take something and show it to anyone I want and the will be able to understand the jist of it.
yeah if want something sexy and polished this isnt the program for you but if you want something that fits well into the middle of your workflow its perfect.
oh yeah and as far as exporting things to max... you can select everything that is a paticular material and then group them. Repeat this for all of the things you want to be able to apply different materials to in max and when exporting tell it do layers based on geometry and viola! perfecto!
sketchup:
Isn't the phrase nice-sketchup rendering an oxymoron, although you may be able to export skectchup files into other softwares you get 3d garbage when doing so. One of the things that I love about sketchup is that when you make a circle or an arc it requires you to enter the number of sides the shape should have. apparently a circel can have anywhere from 3-100 sides, I always thought they had one. If you're using sketchup you might as well dress up as a clown, because sketchup is a joke.
I always dress up like a clown when I render, keeps me on my toes.
I checked this thread out beacause I was actually curious to see what some people are doing with Sketchup, and as usual it just turns out to be a complete waste of my time. These forums often start with a practical and interesting topic, but generally sink into a bitchfest by a bunch of total dorks! I could care less if you think FormZ is better than Sketchup, PC is better than Mac, or whatever. Get a frickin' life already.
well that's a mighty helpful input. well done.
It's not impossible to model some fairly complex geometry:
[url=http://www.link.com]One[/http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums//attachment.php?attachmentid=7597&stc=1&d=1133116261]
And using the Cheetah renderer (which is free, I think, but only available for Macs) you can get some pretty clean renders.
[url=http://www.link.com]Two[/http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7723&stc=1&d=1133373103]
I never get links to work right on the first try. . .
One
Two
hey, gotta love the morons like jamez with the ridiculous comments. first dolt, you have no idea what you are talking about, and second if you spent 2 minutes looking at some of the work people can do with the software, then you might be able to frame a coherent argument against the software; like gee that looks cool, but did it take longer to make on SU, than it would on software x, y or z?
bryan with http://www.form-ula.net/ has a lot of great material on their website, and if you check out his myspace page - the link i posted at the top is to some of his SU work - you will find more work.
tell me that sucks.
it's limited yes, but it's far from useless, unless you happen to be jamez and then i think it's the user and not the tool or maybe the tool is the user...
It's so funny to see that some people just bashing SketchUp, because they either don't know how to use well or can't make up/cover their bad designs with fancy rendering. I'm pretty sure someone can render poop in 3D Max with full raytrace with multiple light sources, but hey, it's still poop. Someone also said it's only good to design boxes? I guess everyone is working at places like Gehry's firm now, eh?
Why can't people just say that they can't use or (don't know) SketchUp well but they are good at other programs? Rhino is awesome program to create nice blobs, and FormZ is relatively easy to use and can produce nice renderings, too. And of course, there's 3D Max; if you have to pick one rendering software to learn, I guess that will be it. SketchUp alone (I'm talking rendering here) can't compete with other powerful 3D programs, but there are some add-on rendering programs out there for SketchUp... like Maxwell, Vue, Cheetah, and VRAY.
I've been playing with VRAY for SketchUp for a month now, and I'm very impressed. It's add-on, so you don't have to worry about exporting and stuff. SketchUp users should give it a try (beta version is free until they release the final one... you need to sign up to download at here
Here's some sample renderings from their user forum site.
Peace, man. Peace.
I couldn't agree more, Sketchup is a great tool in the schematic design workflow, way up to client presentations if you know how to tweak your display settings. Being able to rotate the model fairly quickly and transitioning between views / sectional cuts in real time is invauable to conveying the design (making it understandable to the average client). If I need a high-quality render, I just throw it into Maxwell render, love the lighting ambience and ease of use in that renderer. Another thing SK is good for is using its wireframe or trnasparency modes to create diagrammatic models, exploded axonemetrics, and other conceptual diagrams that can be layered, combined, and edited in Photoshop.
And for the record, I also know Max and Form Z. Each program has its strengths and weaknesses, it's just a matter of picking the right tool for the job. Sometimes I do complex geometry in Max, merge and edit with SK, and render in Maxwell.
if you know what you are doing with sketchup, it can be great.
i think people are anti-sketchup sometimes because it is a free program, therefore not worthy of their time. but if you learn it well it can be a great tool.
i cant think of the name of the program, but some guys in my firm do some real nice renders from sketchup and something else. comes out great if you know what youre doing.
i generally find that if someone bashes a program, its because they dont know how to use it
heh heh jamez got a beat down lol
Wow. So many great renderings in this thread! I think I get this Sket-chump!
My problem with sketchup is not with the rendering, (I even happen to like the open gl interface and it is very clean and I think that sketchup is positive for the 3d community because it gives grandparents something to do in their free time other than knitting) but the geometry that sketchup produces is garbage. The problem is that people are using sketchup long past the preliminary 'sketching phase' which it was intended for. And it is also very cumbersome to do anything other than a box. When you use sketchup you limit yourself, that is a fact. I can model in FormZ or Rhino way faster than sketchup. And what is up with not having locks on layers! If you actually understand the principles of geometry and topology then you can do what you want fast in any program. Try using sketchup to fabricate parts to actually build a building. Sketchup is f'n clown shoes and if you are using sketchup in an architectural office you are a clown.
p.s. that sucks
so i guess because jamez doesnt like it, we should all abandon sketchup forever. thanks for the advice. i will now advise everyone in my office who uses sketchup to switch to formz or rhino because you know those programs better.
there are ways to improve the geometry and use it past the sketching phase. i have seen very comprehensive models built with sketchup well into construction documents. i dont use it personally because i can model in other programs better than in sketchup. but that is because i have more experience in those programs, not because they are superior.
you dont like sketchup, thats fine, you dont know it as well as other programs, that is fine. calling people clowns is a little ridiculous and an excellent way to prove you are not to be taken seriously. and yes i got the movie reference from the quote, that doesnt change anything
jamez, as the teacher would say to Charlie Brown, Wah, wah, wah, wa wahn waha wah...
Given the oh so complexity of your work sucks is a word I think you are all to familiar with.
This is why I do not befriend architects everybody is too damn serious, did I say that nobody should use sketchup? No! Did I say cause I don't use it nobody should use it? No! beta, it is a nice drawing, but I wouldn't go around telling people that it is an example of excellence in sketchup.
look jamez, its a pen/pencil/crayon/marker/brick/charcoal or whatever - a tool is a tool, the user decides what it makes it work. can SU do nurbs? no. can it create the greg lynn or gehry work? no. but by what standards did the tools you mention become the be all end all of the design world? i used 3dmax when you were still in high school listening to MC Hammer, i found out early on that while a great tool, i did not want to specialize in the creation of 3d images for the consumption of others sexualized desires. who cares. the images produced never look like the product built. does gehry or lyn or rem, holl know how that software works? fuck no, the hire people to do that shit and become the unmotivated sub-class of worker bees developing "great" images for no ones pleasure but their own.
a few years from now there will be tools that make formz/maya and every other super tool obsolete, do you know what they are? tell me where digital representation is heading, don't tell me where it is or has been.
until then i will grab every tool out there and create whatever i can.
imagine someone telling rauschenburg or pollock or others - you know there is a quicker and better way of doing that, and you are wasting time....ugh!
You agree with me but you are to educated to understand.
sidney pollock is good. i have never seen any movies by this rauschburg fellow.
too educated to understand
you think very highly of yourself jamez, i suppose thats a good thing
annoying
but good
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