I am putting together a quick proposal for a very small office reno for a friend in NYC. I could really use a gut-check on 3 questions from any NYC-experienced architect, please.
- DD, CDs, CA (2 visits + SD review, punchlist) : percentage of construction cost
- Additional CA / changes : add serv, hourly
Scope is:
~1400 sf; minor non-structural demo; new wall, floor, and ceiling finishes; new lighting; some kitchen cabinetry (may require relocation of existing sink lines and drain), probably some built-in shelving somewhere; new office doors & 1 new window.
1. What is a typical % of construction cost fee for a similar small office reno? This is in an institution; they want it to be as nice as possible within institutional cost range.
2. What is going hourly rate for sole proprietor in NYC?
3. Is there a handy place online where I can quickly review to be SURE that I don't need a NY license to perform this scope of services? (for example - in Illinois this language is buried in a state statute on some archaic bureaucratic website... am hoping to avoid hours of googling)
If you want to do it legit you will probably need a licensed architect and an expeditor to get a permit. You may need plumbing and electrical permits as well. A simple Alt. 2 permit would cover your architectural and plumbing permits, but I think the electrical may be a separate permit. It sounds complex, but a good expeditor could walk you through it and prepare all the paperwork. There are some shortcuts, like self-certification and same-day-filing that can speed up the process, but at the end of the day you will still probably need an RA to do it legally.
You could always just do the work and (if a neighbor complains and you are questioned by the DOB) claim that its simple repair work, which does not require a permit. It might be difficult to claim if your design requires altering the architectural, lighting and plumbing layouts but it may be worth a shot depending on the clients comfort level with the idea. Replacing windows may also push it over the edge from just repair work to a renovation.
I guess the question is how much do you trust your neighbors.
1. I think you're making your proposal too complicated. Why go hourly to percentage? Typically you would do a percentage of construction cost (adjusted as the project proceeds into construction) and you'd get a retainer up front to cover your survey costs. I've done a few of these office renovations...and they've ranged anywhere from 11-18% depending on the detailing and amount of CD's required. This is a small space, so you don't want to short-change yourself. The smaller the job, the higher the percentage of construction fee.
2. Each office hourly rate is different. I've seen principals in NYC as high as $225/hr, or as low as $180/hr. Project managers slightly below these (~$20) . Drafters below that...and so on. These are usually based on calculated multipliers...based on salary/overhead/etc. But it varies...you need to determine for yourself what will turn a profit for you. If you have no overhead your rate can be lower than the standard and still turn a decent profit. Hope this makes sense to you.
3. If you're adding or removing walls (even non-structural), it needs to be filed with the DOB by a licensed architect. If you're moving or adding more than 2 plumbing fixtures, it needs to be filed also (otherwise you could get away with filing a LAA1 application). Go to NYC dob website and look this stuff up. It's not that difficult to maneuver the site if you spend a bit of time searching. Lastly, some building landlords require filing all work with the DOB even if it's primarily cosmetic. Make sure you know the alteration requirements of the building.
1. 11-18% on office reno? Good for you! Seriously not being sarcastic, thats great money!
2. Agree completely, and yes those are the hourly rates.
3. 2008 NYC BC clarifies that non rated walls can be classified as 'ordinary repairs.' Technically true, but so many landlords/co-op boards dont know any better and fall back on "if you touch a wall, file it...."
You should also keep in mind that projects being done in the city take longer to complete do to the logistics. Street Parking is almost impossible, Use of the Elevators typically have limited hours, and well you don't want to be bumping shoulders with the Teflon Don's Son and the Carpenter Union.
I think I've run into Guido at the Chicago DOB :-)
Thanks everyone, this is all a big help. Still unclear whether we fall into "no permit needed" bucket or alt-2 bucket, but I will keep searching. (We're likely not moving any plumbing, just replacing fixtures; and same with light fixtures - not adding or deleting but just swapping out fixtures.) "window" is really just an interior glass partition, so should be fine there.
Thanks again!
Oct 18, 11 12:50 am ·
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3 Quick Questions for NYC Architects
Hi wise folks.
I am putting together a quick proposal for a very small office reno for a friend in NYC. I could really use a gut-check on 3 questions from any NYC-experienced architect, please.
I'm thinking of structuring the proposal as:
- Existing conditions documentation + schematic design : Hourly rate
- DD, CDs, CA (2 visits + SD review, punchlist) : percentage of construction cost
- Additional CA / changes : add serv, hourly
Scope is:
~1400 sf; minor non-structural demo; new wall, floor, and ceiling finishes; new lighting; some kitchen cabinetry (may require relocation of existing sink lines and drain), probably some built-in shelving somewhere; new office doors & 1 new window.
1. What is a typical % of construction cost fee for a similar small office reno? This is in an institution; they want it to be as nice as possible within institutional cost range.
2. What is going hourly rate for sole proprietor in NYC?
3. Is there a handy place online where I can quickly review to be SURE that I don't need a NY license to perform this scope of services? (for example - in Illinois this language is buried in a state statute on some archaic bureaucratic website... am hoping to avoid hours of googling)
Thanks in advance for any help you can give!
bump...
#3) I believe you will need either a licensed architect or engineer to file the permit application. check with the borough building department.
If you want to do it legit you will probably need a licensed architect and an expeditor to get a permit. You may need plumbing and electrical permits as well. A simple Alt. 2 permit would cover your architectural and plumbing permits, but I think the electrical may be a separate permit. It sounds complex, but a good expeditor could walk you through it and prepare all the paperwork. There are some shortcuts, like self-certification and same-day-filing that can speed up the process, but at the end of the day you will still probably need an RA to do it legally.
You could always just do the work and (if a neighbor complains and you are questioned by the DOB) claim that its simple repair work, which does not require a permit. It might be difficult to claim if your design requires altering the architectural, lighting and plumbing layouts but it may be worth a shot depending on the clients comfort level with the idea. Replacing windows may also push it over the edge from just repair work to a renovation.
I guess the question is how much do you trust your neighbors.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/homeowners_and_tenants/cons_basic.shtml
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/consbroch.pdf
1. I think you're making your proposal too complicated. Why go hourly to percentage? Typically you would do a percentage of construction cost (adjusted as the project proceeds into construction) and you'd get a retainer up front to cover your survey costs. I've done a few of these office renovations...and they've ranged anywhere from 11-18% depending on the detailing and amount of CD's required. This is a small space, so you don't want to short-change yourself. The smaller the job, the higher the percentage of construction fee.
2. Each office hourly rate is different. I've seen principals in NYC as high as $225/hr, or as low as $180/hr. Project managers slightly below these (~$20) . Drafters below that...and so on. These are usually based on calculated multipliers...based on salary/overhead/etc. But it varies...you need to determine for yourself what will turn a profit for you. If you have no overhead your rate can be lower than the standard and still turn a decent profit. Hope this makes sense to you.
3. If you're adding or removing walls (even non-structural), it needs to be filed with the DOB by a licensed architect. If you're moving or adding more than 2 plumbing fixtures, it needs to be filed also (otherwise you could get away with filing a LAA1 application). Go to NYC dob website and look this stuff up. It's not that difficult to maneuver the site if you spend a bit of time searching. Lastly, some building landlords require filing all work with the DOB even if it's primarily cosmetic. Make sure you know the alteration requirements of the building.
Good luck.
@ Farleft
1. 11-18% on office reno? Good for you! Seriously not being sarcastic, thats great money!
2. Agree completely, and yes those are the hourly rates.
3. 2008 NYC BC clarifies that non rated walls can be classified as 'ordinary repairs.' Technically true, but so many landlords/co-op boards dont know any better and fall back on "if you touch a wall, file it...."
myriam,
You should also keep in mind that projects being done in the city take longer to complete do to the logistics. Street Parking is almost impossible, Use of the Elevators typically have limited hours, and well you don't want to be bumping shoulders with the Teflon Don's Son and the Carpenter Union.
your scope of work will require an alt-3 permit from the DOB, for which you will need a NY license.
sorry, I meant alt-2
alt-2 or Guido......who carries a big stick and speaks very little.
I think I've run into Guido at the Chicago DOB :-)
Thanks everyone, this is all a big help. Still unclear whether we fall into "no permit needed" bucket or alt-2 bucket, but I will keep searching. (We're likely not moving any plumbing, just replacing fixtures; and same with light fixtures - not adding or deleting but just swapping out fixtures.) "window" is really just an interior glass partition, so should be fine there.
Thanks again!
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