I need some serious design help.
I'm designing a giant concrete coil [at it's widest diameter is 60 ft.] as a pedestrian on/off ramp of a large industrial modern inner city bridge. The structure coils around the bridge pylons and when possible, utilizes them for support. It also widens and narrows to provide some experience of compression. I'm having tremendous railing issues - don't want to dumb it down with standard steel or even concrete railings. Has anyone seen something that might be appropriate?
Not sure I have a suggestion for you, geno, but I can appreciate the problem! Handrails so often do "dumb down" a form. It sounds like cable rails might seem puny not to mention obvious. Does the existing bridge (I assume it's for cars) have a railing that you could use as a cue, like redesign it for the hand vs. for the auto? Hmmm....
someone just told me about a project in Toronto where a designer was hired by the city to design a railing to stop prolific suicides from a bridge structure. whoever it was came up with some type of imperceptible tension wires [like tight guitar strings]. it's now called 'the veil'.
what about embedded reinforcing steel scaled to the compression factor of the experience? simply embed steel cable in to the ramp that is thick enough to be taller than a person standing next to it.. that way people wouldn't stand a chance of impaling themselves on it. vary the diameter and maybe the height proportional to the width of the ramp. the spacing could either be constant or somehow relative to the experience.
That project at the prince edward viaduct was great but the railing (it's more like a fence) was very visible if I'm remembering the right thing. The way steel rods are tensioned vertically seems like a pretty cool way to accomplish the fence though.
Hey don't forget to go to the Embarcadero building. It is the building adjacent to that bigg water sculpture thing. Just walk into the courtyard in the center of the building. This is exactly what we are trying to do. We should try to find out who designed it... Talk to you later
question: is the concrete coil only the horizontal of this ramp, not the side/vertical? i'm guessing this is true, because otherwise you may have already come up with the following...
if there is a vertical plane of concrete that spirals down, couldn't you extend it up high enough to dispense with a separate railing entirely? you could even have a handrail cast into the vertical wall of concrete as a negative space.
If you make it probably 54" tall and the slope is gradual - you might not even need a hand rail. I did a bridge railing and they speced that the height had to be 42" +++. they were worried about pedestrians, car bumpers (matched a caltrans a-26 spec of 17 - 27" inch engineering bumber guard continuous ribbon intent) - and bicyclists. If you do a cap contour that is not basically flat - something with a peak (slanted 45 degrees) the whole problem is mute.
probably you only need a gripping rail at 36 - 38" if the slope is more than an ADA ramp.
client was the bureau of engineering for the city of LA & a big bridge engineering firm - so that is probably enough to satisfy your headache.
found an image of the idea - this is at Point Fermin park in SP. Railing is about 55" tall.
I know some states allows a raised ledge at bench height with the depth of a guardrail instead of a guardrail, which may work out for you visually, although it would substantially widen the coil...
Aug 5, 05 12:14 pm ·
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Giant Concrete Coil
I need some serious design help.
I'm designing a giant concrete coil [at it's widest diameter is 60 ft.] as a pedestrian on/off ramp of a large industrial modern inner city bridge. The structure coils around the bridge pylons and when possible, utilizes them for support. It also widens and narrows to provide some experience of compression. I'm having tremendous railing issues - don't want to dumb it down with standard steel or even concrete railings. Has anyone seen something that might be appropriate?
Thanks so much!
Not sure I have a suggestion for you, geno, but I can appreciate the problem! Handrails so often do "dumb down" a form. It sounds like cable rails might seem puny not to mention obvious. Does the existing bridge (I assume it's for cars) have a railing that you could use as a cue, like redesign it for the hand vs. for the auto? Hmmm....
thanks for the empathy liberty bell!
someone just told me about a project in Toronto where a designer was hired by the city to design a railing to stop prolific suicides from a bridge structure. whoever it was came up with some type of imperceptible tension wires [like tight guitar strings]. it's now called 'the veil'.
gotta find some info on it.
what about embedded reinforcing steel scaled to the compression factor of the experience? simply embed steel cable in to the ramp that is thick enough to be taller than a person standing next to it.. that way people wouldn't stand a chance of impaling themselves on it. vary the diameter and maybe the height proportional to the width of the ramp. the spacing could either be constant or somehow relative to the experience.
Here's a link to the luminous veil...
http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/issues/060101/4Human/human01.shtml
That project at the prince edward viaduct was great but the railing (it's more like a fence) was very visible if I'm remembering the right thing. The way steel rods are tensioned vertically seems like a pretty cool way to accomplish the fence though.
thanks for the link and the steel cable suggestion.
the trick is to do this without creating a caged people effect.
Hey don't forget to go to the Embarcadero building. It is the building adjacent to that bigg water sculpture thing. Just walk into the courtyard in the center of the building. This is exactly what we are trying to do. We should try to find out who designed it... Talk to you later
http://waderoush.typepad.com/photos/a_treocam_album/photo_050705_010.html
great precedent. thanks.
question: is the concrete coil only the horizontal of this ramp, not the side/vertical? i'm guessing this is true, because otherwise you may have already come up with the following...
if there is a vertical plane of concrete that spirals down, couldn't you extend it up high enough to dispense with a separate railing entirely? you could even have a handrail cast into the vertical wall of concrete as a negative space.
If you make it probably 54" tall and the slope is gradual - you might not even need a hand rail. I did a bridge railing and they speced that the height had to be 42" +++. they were worried about pedestrians, car bumpers (matched a caltrans a-26 spec of 17 - 27" inch engineering bumber guard continuous ribbon intent) - and bicyclists. If you do a cap contour that is not basically flat - something with a peak (slanted 45 degrees) the whole problem is mute.
probably you only need a gripping rail at 36 - 38" if the slope is more than an ADA ramp.
client was the bureau of engineering for the city of LA & a big bridge engineering firm - so that is probably enough to satisfy your headache.
found an image of the idea - this is at Point Fermin park in SP. Railing is about 55" tall.
I know some states allows a raised ledge at bench height with the depth of a guardrail instead of a guardrail, which may work out for you visually, although it would substantially widen the coil...
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