Is anyone in atlanta as disgusted with the atlanta station project as i am. The developer and city really had the opportunity to create a fantastic urban development here and have completely fucked it up. What is wrong with these people. The common area with the movie theatre and shopping that is nearing completion is by far the worst designed urban project I have seen in a long time. Couple that with the beezer row houses and the entire development is a joke. Although the project may be a financial success for the developers in the end, its the residents of Atlanta that must put up with this crap for the rest of our lives.
I live right behind Atlantic Station, or as I like to call it, the EIFS Monster From Hell. From an urban design standpoint, it isn't horrible. At least they are considering pedestrians and bicyclists. However, I'm not too sure who's gonna use that "park" with the fake pond. Unfortunately, the architecture is horrific. It's sad when Ikea has the best looking buidling. What's worse is the retail area they call The Distrtict looks like Mall of Georgia plugged into an urban site. I drive by it everyday and I have to keep myself from either gagging or laughing hysterically. Aside from the stupid steel-mill buildings that look like they belong in disney world, the absolute worst part has to be the fake atrium. They designed a "main street"-like entrance off 17th street with a large fenestrated facade as a focal point. Unfortuantely, the fenestrations lead to...you guessed it...nothing. It's more of a sign, stuck onto the building in a ridiculous way. Mall of Georgia has something similar, but at least that has a large, open food court space. I really don't know what they were thinking. I can take some pictures this week-end if anyone wants so you can see how bad it truly is.
that ikea is monstrous. for people supposedely so bent on design, you would figure they could do something better. a giant blue box.
the row of houses you can see from the 75/85 merger is absolutely hilarious. it's like they went to the suburbs, copied a house, put an FFD box on it, shrunk it one way, placed a row of instances along a spline, and put an ugly modifier on it with a strength of 10. if someone ever needs to expand a road, they should do it there, so they can be demolished.
yeah, i don't think too many of us in town are going to find much to like about the development as a whole. pretty much forgetable at this stage. (i drive by it and through it as well. there are some moments that could have been pretty nice - the little park at the split headed by the leftover machine or stack could have been quite nice if the buildings framing it had any character whatsoever.)
my disgust for this project goes back to before they broke ground...
is anyone familiar w/ 'freedom heights' on freedom parkway and ralph macgill (accross the street from copenhill lofts)?
anyway, somewhere along the way i learned that the same company (they're from houston, i think) that designed and built that monstrosity was the same one selected to do the apartment buildings on atlantic station...i pretty much gave up hope after that...i just can't put faith in a developer who believes that glue-ing scraps of corrugated metal to a cheap apt. building will make it "urban".
i ride through to laugh during lunch every couple of weeks. i think they've managed to run the gamut on available EIFS colors. The purple/blue is my favorite. I heard there was going to be a half scale replica of the arc d'triumph over there too. It'll look great next to the fenced off toxic pond. The abandoned brown field/steel mill was much better. Given half a chance, atlanta will fuck up anything.
Ruth's pictures are impressive. Hopefully she will include pictures from Peachtree going south as it crosses I-85. There, you can see the enormous EIFS backside of the cinema. Uggghh. And i have to see it everyday.
I used to intern a the firm that does most of Dillard's work and of course did the one in the Atlantic Station development. Typically Dillard's are just big boxes with no exterior windows and the same copy/paste elevations that are slightly altered for each store. For AS, they made an effort to create a more urban facade, albeit EIFS. At least they tried to incorporate some storefront displays to engage the pedesterian. E for Effort?
that murky detention pond and the surrounding residual landscape, together with the token benches, constitute the 'commons.'
from the atlantic station website:
Centered within Atlanta's next great gathering place, The Commons is an imaginative venture to create the most attractive urban neighborhood in the nation. A mix of apartment buildings, town homes and high-rise condominium towers will offer an opportunity to live in close proximity to Atlantic Station's Retail and Office Districts, with easy access to all the things to do in Atlanta. At the center of The Commons a new park and fountained lake will form the community "focal point" for concerts, festivals or simply an evening stroll.
Consumers Say Sayonara
to the Shopping Mall
From "Point of Purchase Magazine,"
February 2003
Atlanta GA — The shopping mall as we know it is on its way out the door. A movement dubbed new urbanism is sweeping the nation, promising consumer's intimacy, authenticity, convenience and a sense of neighborhood.
PlastiX,
i think the 'pedestrians' you speak of will already be going to AS to shop at dillards, ikea, etc. i doubt that people will just 'happen' to walk by the enormous big box retail building...it's not like it's on the way to anything except other big boxes and a theater. the giant 'Dillard's' sign that will seen from I-85 will have a much bigger effect on the pedestrian...i'm sorry, but i really can't give dillard's credit for doing anything positive...
but i guess what they did is better than the typical Dillards, pedestrians or no pedestrians... still, when it comes down to it, it's just another big anti-urban box.
Just keep raggin' on the ATL, YA'LL.....Errrr, yer kinda right about it though. I've lived in MetroATL for 28 yrs & have seen it go through approx 5 transitions. Atlantic Station is a manifest of the last one - an attempt at creating a place for people in this city that sometimes forgets that people are what cities are really about.
It's funny, you talk to the REAL old-timers & Atlanta of the early-mid 20th century sounds idyllic. If you Mix in the '60s, urban renewal, destroying thriving neighbrhoods for the sake of freeways, white-flight & just a general national apathy, your result is the City of Atlanta that is rediscovering itself, but is awakening to a bad hangover.
Today, it seems that Atlanta is starting to see the light, but it's still pretty dim
You think Atlantic Station is bad? You shoulda been here 10 yrs AGO! I went to GATech & you took your life into your own hands if you just wanted to get a beer around there (yes, near Atlantic Station). BTW, Atlantic Station's true sucess is that it is better than what was there, relatively speaking, at least.
I don't have time to elaborate on my experirences much more, but I'll say this: ATL is not there yet, architecturally & from an urban quqlity perspective. But give it another 10yrs & I think you'll see this city take Architecture seriously.
...and if'n that ain't good enough for ya: Go move back to Massachussetts & shovel snow all winter! So now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go work on plans for the dock I'm constructing on Lake Laurel...an artificial lake (no chit, man).
back in 1997 or so I was in an urban studio doing a plan for AS, and there were a lot of exciting ideas and schemes. But Atlanta's flaky when it comes to design ... at one point they considered Calatrava for the 17th street bridge, he presented, and they decided to go with a regular old concrete bridge after all, because it's cheaper. There's an office tower next to AS that started off looking OK during construction, then they started cladding and adding the top floors, which didn't seem to be part of the same building. It's very poorly proportioned. I think I prefer the old steel mill.
Sure Atlantic Station is better than what was there 10 years ago, but I am upset because of the missed opportunity. The site offered great potential, touted as one of the largest urban renewal projects in the US. Instead of being presented with something progressive, we're given blah.
Also, I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but the neighborhood is extremely isolated and, in my opinion, adds to it with its "wall of townhouses" and "fortress-like commerical space."
I think we should at least give credit where credit is due. the '96 olympics and all of the development/redevelopment of midtown and downtown atlanta is why its so much better around atlantic station. There is no way AS would be going in there if all of that work hadn't been redone same with the new aquarium.
yeah, even the ATLiens from 7-8 years ago (like myself) have seen some crazy changes...i honestly feel like the government/planning infrastructure is in place, but there is no money to do real civic projects. i know this might not be a popular opinion, but consider this: atlanta boasts one of the strongest markets for SMALL developers...a friend of mine did some research on development in atlanta and found out that unlike most 'young' cities, atlanta has a far greater percentage of small (or mom n pop) developers than mega-corporate developers. this is in contrast to say houston, which is dominated by 1 or 2 large deveopment companies. i think this is promising for architects...more opportunities for REAL urban projects and perhaps a little innovation, too (imagine that!). i agree that it will take some time, though.
my fear is that this current wave of development boom will eat up some prime real estate that should have beautiful buildings on it.
we'll see.
cvoogt...long time no communique. are you still at PW? holland?
I lived in Atlanta, too. Actually it was my first contact with American lifestyle. I was shocked when visited Savannah for first time (with grid, streets, pavement…). I would agree that there is lack of urban sense in Atlanta. It is THE anti-urban city. Everything is so far. I used to go in mall just to see people.
By the why, what is going with opera project? Is Calatrava still there?
being un-urban is one thing...being anti-urban is another. i'll be the first person to tell you how messed up most of the city is, but there are some genuinely unique and urban parts of atlanta that have a leg up on other cities.
downtown/fairly-poplar has a tight (pre-automobile) structure and is extremely walkable...and dare i say crowded during the day. at night is another story.
people tend to forget that from downtown, midtown is only a 15-20 minute walk, little 5 to candler is a 15 minute walk...edgewood to little 5 is a 15 minute walk...little 5 to the highlands is a 15 minute walk.
i only mention this because even in paris, getting to the nearest metro stop can sometimes take 15 minutes...the difference is the lack of public/commercial space in atlanta on your way to these different villages.
i ramble...
i'm constantly defending atlanta on archinect...it's just that i think architects like to jump to conclusions about cities...truly understanding a city takes several years.
btw, is anyone going to the corndogorama this weekend? should be lots of fun.
Hey WEAVE,
I think that your fear of the 'current wave' (just one of many in this town) will definitely be the case. ATL is all about money, really. You see, I can hate on my town, too. Heylll, we even found unprecedented ways to turn the Olympics into a big cash cow that, to this day, is still pumping the economy. Ironic because you don't get much of a sense that the Olympics was ever here. In spite of that, ATL did pull off a damn good Games in '96 'cept for that kreep Rudolph.
With all of that said, we're missing the point about projects like Atlantic Station. ATL is not THE anti-urban center of the universe. Maybe most of it's'Burbs are. But Inside The Perimeter (ITP) is sucessfully playing catch-up w/ 30-40yrs of white flight & black negligence (the current mayor, Shirley Franklin has done a lot to push ATL forward from this). You all should see this city as an opportunity to be creative in promoting Architecture & Urban Design. I say that because if you can pull off those two goals, here, then it can be done anywhere.
Anyway, if we don't scare off Calatrava (for Symphony Hall), then maybe we can get Michael Graves back to do another mid-rise office bldgggggg...........but please, don't anybody wake John Portman.
It's all relative, and it's all a work in progress. ATL really is getting better & w/ all ya'll Einsteins moving down South to 'hep' us out, we'll move from being a nice city, to a Great city. If you don't dig it now, come back in 10 more years, Or just visit Europe for a while, but for goodness sake, stay away from Savannah! (Don't you guys enjoy Boston, or WDC enough)
With all of it's faults, I'd say Atlanta is one of the top cities in the South. But, I'm interested in which other Southern Cities impress ya'll (youse guys).
I'll start off w/: Savannah, Charleston, Chattanooga, Birmingham & Asheville. I'd mention a few FLA cities...but that's not really the South. Oh what the heyll: Miami, St. Pete, Seaside (to the extent that it ushered in a phase of Architecture to the region, but that sword is double-edged).
J,
You're right about those cities. All ya'll listen to J, you don't wanna waste your time with those places. I should be discouraging more people from visiting, what am I thinking. Now more room for me.
*Fun Fact: The arch from TEXAS is JHP. They are the Thomas Kincaid of our profession.
>"Dillard made an effort to create a more urban facade... E for Effort?"
*Please! I guess you are referring to the spandral glazing for the blank wall recesses on that HUGE box. 1. An urban facade has true transparency which contributes to implied and/or actual safety. 2. Effort is defined as making an attempt or actually trying. Sorry they get an F for Fukking Awful. 3. Also missing - Human scale, diverse use, natural lighting, and sustainable building materials/practices but the 1/4" brick veneer sure helps.
>"The shopping mall as we know it is on its way out the door. A movement dubbed new urbanism ..." *This quote is awesome! I think most developers stop listening right there. "SOLD! I'm off to buy more tassled loafers."
>"...the fountained lake will form the community 'focal point' for concerts, festivals or simply an evening stroll." *Maybe... IF you jump the 8'-0" fence which keeps you out of that nasty thing! I keep waiting on them to post this sign around it because it is probably seeping from all the hazards they 'capped.' http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/pictures/warning.jpg
Or a quaint image in the marketing package: http://devnull.alink.co.za/photos/misc/blanco09/big/05.jpg
Finally I think the only thing creative on this site is probably the financing and, of course, the fake fire hydrants in the dog-park. In case the dogs out there didn't know they could obviously crap anywhere - the developers did!
I was in grad school in ATL when construction began on Atlantic Station. We took a tour one day with the an architect that worked for the developer. He was so excited to tell us about this great EIFS brick that he had discovered. He told us how much money they were going to save by only using real brick for the "street level" and then this EIFS brick for the rest of the buildings. My class tried to hold back the laughter.
I was just in town again a few weeks ago, one week after the grand opening of the retail area, so I took some time to check out the train wreck. It was worse than I ever could have imagined. Apparently, they VE'd the real brick out at some point in time and decided to go all EIFS. YES!!!! There was one building that was not quite complete and at first glance I noticed that something looked strange. Upon further inspection, I realized that the painting was not complete. Half of the building had already had the fake "grout lines" painted, the other half was still just brick colored EIFS.
Another thing that drove me nuts was all of the expansion joints. THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!! They come down one side of a building, across the sidewalk and "street" and then up the next building. They are all just nasty black expansion joints. You'd think that they would have developed a better solution.
Finally, my biggest complaint was the sidewalks. They are about 10'-0" wide and brick paved, which is fine. However, the tree wells (w/o tree grates) are 5' to 6' square which reduces the walkable area of the sidewalk to about 4'. You can barely walk 2 people side by side. ARGH!!!
Enough ranting for now. I don't even have time to get into the architectural design problems.
I live in Atlantic Station, mostly because my g-friend and I were looking for a specific type of apartment within a certain price-bracket. And, the potential pedestrian environment drew us to it.
My take on Atlantic Station is this: Of course the architecture is terrible and the urban planning is questionable (the sidewalk statement definitely made me laugh), but atleast everyday people are talking about urban planning. Remember, this is Atlanta, a city filled with urban sprawl, cheap developers, and strip malls. Just take a drive down 14th street on the West side of I-75 and see what Atlantic Station would have looked like had it been developed 20 years ago. Strip malls with empty parking lots galore.
i think the major thing that disappoints me about this project is not necessarily the architecture or the urban planning, but the public opinion of it. j, you are absolutely right when you say people love it. i've met several people who can't wait to move into one of the eifs boxes...some of them are even work in 'the arts'...
that's the thing, though: 90% of the general population doesn't know that the brick is painted styrofoam, and those who do probably don't care...it's more about having a new movie theater and a california pizza kitchen. in this case, 'quality' is not a physical thing but a state of mind or an experience. if john q public drives into atlantic station, parks in the deck, has a bite to eat, gets some new cargo pants, and can find his car again without seeing anything upsetting, i think his perception of the place will be favorable. i'm not trying to belittle the intelligence of the general population, but people have other preoccupations (different than myself and most archinectors), and developers know how to exploit that at the lowest cost.
i'd be very interested to see atlantic station in 15 years. i don't see how something built that fast and that cheap can last that long.
is it just me or do any of you here in ATL find the advertising for atlantic station disturbing? when i hear commercials for it on the radio, it is being dubbed as a place for fake breasts, one night stands, and morning after coffee for young atlantic station groupies. absolutely hilarious.
it really does amaze me how gullible we are sometimes.
I haven't heard the ads yet, because I try to avoid stupid commercials. But, I guess their target market is the 20-somethings, either in college or right out of college. Atlanta has also become a place where people start their careers right out of college from various parts of the country. They are probably trying to tap that market. It'll be interesting to see how they market Atlantic Station to the 20-somethings moving to Atlanta. I wonder what the perception of AS is to the non-Atlantan moving to the city for the first time.
For a man who used to live in Atlanta, and for someone who travels there frequently, all I can say is "meh". But this is Atlanta, and it's what we should expect of Atlanta. Atlanta is a city with near limitless opprotunity. And that opprotunity has been squandered at evey turn. Whenever any developer, be they Portman or the people behind Atlantic Station have tried to put any development project there that borders on urban renewal or new urbanism, even with the best intentions, they pretty much fail from an architectural standpoint. Portman has been attacked constantly for his efforts even though they have spurred growth and renewal in a few cases (Atlanta, Times Square), or failed horribly (Ren Cen, due to budget cuts). Why do these people fail? Because Atlanta is inherantly anti-urban, and even trying for a new urbanism there is to invite crushing defeat, it's like trying to invade Russia, some things just don't work. Atlantic Station could be designed by the world's greatest architect, but it would still appear overly internalized and village-like.
But is Atlanta as a city lost? No. You don't go to Atlanta for architecture, but for the very reason that it is anti-urban, it could become an excellent testing ground for all types of architecutral typolgies as yet unexplored. How much effort do architects have to go through to get a design realized in a city as political and historical as New York? Those kinds of restrictions don't exist in Atlanta, there isn't that much of a system there in place to define what an architecture should be, instead architecture can be what it wants to be, free of restrictions like the grid. It's just a damn shame no one (expect Portman, for as much as people hate him) has really tried it.
Nov 17, 05 10:55 pm ·
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atlantic station - atl
Is anyone in atlanta as disgusted with the atlanta station project as i am. The developer and city really had the opportunity to create a fantastic urban development here and have completely fucked it up. What is wrong with these people. The common area with the movie theatre and shopping that is nearing completion is by far the worst designed urban project I have seen in a long time. Couple that with the beezer row houses and the entire development is a joke. Although the project may be a financial success for the developers in the end, its the residents of Atlanta that must put up with this crap for the rest of our lives.
I live right behind Atlantic Station, or as I like to call it, the EIFS Monster From Hell. From an urban design standpoint, it isn't horrible. At least they are considering pedestrians and bicyclists. However, I'm not too sure who's gonna use that "park" with the fake pond. Unfortunately, the architecture is horrific. It's sad when Ikea has the best looking buidling. What's worse is the retail area they call The Distrtict looks like Mall of Georgia plugged into an urban site. I drive by it everyday and I have to keep myself from either gagging or laughing hysterically. Aside from the stupid steel-mill buildings that look like they belong in disney world, the absolute worst part has to be the fake atrium. They designed a "main street"-like entrance off 17th street with a large fenestrated facade as a focal point. Unfortuantely, the fenestrations lead to...you guessed it...nothing. It's more of a sign, stuck onto the building in a ridiculous way. Mall of Georgia has something similar, but at least that has a large, open food court space. I really don't know what they were thinking. I can take some pictures this week-end if anyone wants so you can see how bad it truly is.
a pathetic collection of pre-packaged suburban building types artificially stitched together by a nostalgic and inappropriate 'urban' system.
that ikea is monstrous. for people supposedely so bent on design, you would figure they could do something better. a giant blue box.
the row of houses you can see from the 75/85 merger is absolutely hilarious. it's like they went to the suburbs, copied a house, put an FFD box on it, shrunk it one way, placed a row of instances along a spline, and put an ugly modifier on it with a strength of 10. if someone ever needs to expand a road, they should do it there, so they can be demolished.
yeah, i don't think too many of us in town are going to find much to like about the development as a whole. pretty much forgetable at this stage. (i drive by it and through it as well. there are some moments that could have been pretty nice - the little park at the split headed by the leftover machine or stack could have been quite nice if the buildings framing it had any character whatsoever.)
my disgust for this project goes back to before they broke ground...
is anyone familiar w/ 'freedom heights' on freedom parkway and ralph macgill (accross the street from copenhill lofts)?
anyway, somewhere along the way i learned that the same company (they're from houston, i think) that designed and built that monstrosity was the same one selected to do the apartment buildings on atlantic station...i pretty much gave up hope after that...i just can't put faith in a developer who believes that glue-ing scraps of corrugated metal to a cheap apt. building will make it "urban".
somehow i don't mind the ikea building, though...
those are some sweet dryer vents
i ride through to laugh during lunch every couple of weeks. i think they've managed to run the gamut on available EIFS colors. The purple/blue is my favorite. I heard there was going to be a half scale replica of the arc d'triumph over there too. It'll look great next to the fenced off toxic pond. The abandoned brown field/steel mill was much better. Given half a chance, atlanta will fuck up anything.
if you are truly interested in what has happened to this site, check out ruth dessault's impressive photo-documentary. it's a must-see:
http://www.coa.gatech.edu/~rd107/
what the hell is in this water feature?
Ruth's pictures are impressive. Hopefully she will include pictures from Peachtree going south as it crosses I-85. There, you can see the enormous EIFS backside of the cinema. Uggghh. And i have to see it everyday.
el jeffe: some fake pond. Once I saw a church group have a picnic next to it and they looked really awkward.
wonder if they were considering baptisms. it'd be cool if the water in the pond were flammable....
I used to intern a the firm that does most of Dillard's work and of course did the one in the Atlantic Station development. Typically Dillard's are just big boxes with no exterior windows and the same copy/paste elevations that are slightly altered for each store. For AS, they made an effort to create a more urban facade, albeit EIFS. At least they tried to incorporate some storefront displays to engage the pedesterian. E for Effort?
that murky detention pond and the surrounding residual landscape, together with the token benches, constitute the 'commons.'
from the atlantic station website:
Centered within Atlanta's next great gathering place, The Commons is an imaginative venture to create the most attractive urban neighborhood in the nation. A mix of apartment buildings, town homes and high-rise condominium towers will offer an opportunity to live in close proximity to Atlantic Station's Retail and Office Districts, with easy access to all the things to do in Atlanta. At the center of The Commons a new park and fountained lake will form the community "focal point" for concerts, festivals or simply an evening stroll.
the only thing duany said that was complimentary of atlantic station was how the parking garage lined up with the streets above.
my favorite part of atlantic station was watching them frame windows on top of the insulation for 'elevational intrique' or some other drivel.
also from the atlantic station website:
Consumers Say Sayonara
to the Shopping Mall
From "Point of Purchase Magazine,"
February 2003
Atlanta GA — The shopping mall as we know it is on its way out the door. A movement dubbed new urbanism is sweeping the nation, promising consumer's intimacy, authenticity, convenience and a sense of neighborhood.
authenticity? i just purged my lunch.........
can someone post the website, i need a good laugh right now.
have a barf bag at the ready.......
hope that wasn't on your keyboard
PlastiX,
i think the 'pedestrians' you speak of will already be going to AS to shop at dillards, ikea, etc. i doubt that people will just 'happen' to walk by the enormous big box retail building...it's not like it's on the way to anything except other big boxes and a theater. the giant 'Dillard's' sign that will seen from I-85 will have a much bigger effect on the pedestrian...i'm sorry, but i really can't give dillard's credit for doing anything positive...
now if dillards were to take a floor of the soon-to-be redeveloped City Hall East, that would be another story...
i meant that with a dose of sarcasm =)
but i guess what they did is better than the typical Dillards, pedestrians or no pedestrians... still, when it comes down to it, it's just another big anti-urban box.
yes
Just keep raggin' on the ATL, YA'LL.....Errrr, yer kinda right about it though. I've lived in MetroATL for 28 yrs & have seen it go through approx 5 transitions. Atlantic Station is a manifest of the last one - an attempt at creating a place for people in this city that sometimes forgets that people are what cities are really about.
It's funny, you talk to the REAL old-timers & Atlanta of the early-mid 20th century sounds idyllic. If you Mix in the '60s, urban renewal, destroying thriving neighbrhoods for the sake of freeways, white-flight & just a general national apathy, your result is the City of Atlanta that is rediscovering itself, but is awakening to a bad hangover.
Today, it seems that Atlanta is starting to see the light, but it's still pretty dim
You think Atlantic Station is bad? You shoulda been here 10 yrs AGO! I went to GATech & you took your life into your own hands if you just wanted to get a beer around there (yes, near Atlantic Station). BTW, Atlantic Station's true sucess is that it is better than what was there, relatively speaking, at least.
I don't have time to elaborate on my experirences much more, but I'll say this: ATL is not there yet, architecturally & from an urban quqlity perspective. But give it another 10yrs & I think you'll see this city take Architecture seriously.
...and if'n that ain't good enough for ya: Go move back to Massachussetts & shovel snow all winter! So now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go work on plans for the dock I'm constructing on Lake Laurel...an artificial lake (no chit, man).
back in 1997 or so I was in an urban studio doing a plan for AS, and there were a lot of exciting ideas and schemes. But Atlanta's flaky when it comes to design ... at one point they considered Calatrava for the 17th street bridge, he presented, and they decided to go with a regular old concrete bridge after all, because it's cheaper. There's an office tower next to AS that started off looking OK during construction, then they started cladding and adding the top floors, which didn't seem to be part of the same building. It's very poorly proportioned. I think I prefer the old steel mill.
Sure Atlantic Station is better than what was there 10 years ago, but I am upset because of the missed opportunity. The site offered great potential, touted as one of the largest urban renewal projects in the US. Instead of being presented with something progressive, we're given blah.
Also, I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but the neighborhood is extremely isolated and, in my opinion, adds to it with its "wall of townhouses" and "fortress-like commerical space."
I think we should at least give credit where credit is due. the '96 olympics and all of the development/redevelopment of midtown and downtown atlanta is why its so much better around atlantic station. There is no way AS would be going in there if all of that work hadn't been redone same with the new aquarium.
yeah, even the ATLiens from 7-8 years ago (like myself) have seen some crazy changes...i honestly feel like the government/planning infrastructure is in place, but there is no money to do real civic projects. i know this might not be a popular opinion, but consider this: atlanta boasts one of the strongest markets for SMALL developers...a friend of mine did some research on development in atlanta and found out that unlike most 'young' cities, atlanta has a far greater percentage of small (or mom n pop) developers than mega-corporate developers. this is in contrast to say houston, which is dominated by 1 or 2 large deveopment companies. i think this is promising for architects...more opportunities for REAL urban projects and perhaps a little innovation, too (imagine that!). i agree that it will take some time, though.
my fear is that this current wave of development boom will eat up some prime real estate that should have beautiful buildings on it.
we'll see.
cvoogt...long time no communique. are you still at PW? holland?
I lived in Atlanta, too. Actually it was my first contact with American lifestyle. I was shocked when visited Savannah for first time (with grid, streets, pavement…). I would agree that there is lack of urban sense in Atlanta. It is THE anti-urban city. Everything is so far. I used to go in mall just to see people.
By the why, what is going with opera project? Is Calatrava still there?
being un-urban is one thing...being anti-urban is another. i'll be the first person to tell you how messed up most of the city is, but there are some genuinely unique and urban parts of atlanta that have a leg up on other cities.
downtown/fairly-poplar has a tight (pre-automobile) structure and is extremely walkable...and dare i say crowded during the day. at night is another story.
people tend to forget that from downtown, midtown is only a 15-20 minute walk, little 5 to candler is a 15 minute walk...edgewood to little 5 is a 15 minute walk...little 5 to the highlands is a 15 minute walk.
i only mention this because even in paris, getting to the nearest metro stop can sometimes take 15 minutes...the difference is the lack of public/commercial space in atlanta on your way to these different villages.
i ramble...
i'm constantly defending atlanta on archinect...it's just that i think architects like to jump to conclusions about cities...truly understanding a city takes several years.
btw, is anyone going to the corndogorama this weekend? should be lots of fun.
Hey WEAVE,
I think that your fear of the 'current wave' (just one of many in this town) will definitely be the case. ATL is all about money, really. You see, I can hate on my town, too. Heylll, we even found unprecedented ways to turn the Olympics into a big cash cow that, to this day, is still pumping the economy. Ironic because you don't get much of a sense that the Olympics was ever here. In spite of that, ATL did pull off a damn good Games in '96 'cept for that kreep Rudolph.
With all of that said, we're missing the point about projects like Atlantic Station. ATL is not THE anti-urban center of the universe. Maybe most of it's'Burbs are. But Inside The Perimeter (ITP) is sucessfully playing catch-up w/ 30-40yrs of white flight & black negligence (the current mayor, Shirley Franklin has done a lot to push ATL forward from this). You all should see this city as an opportunity to be creative in promoting Architecture & Urban Design. I say that because if you can pull off those two goals, here, then it can be done anywhere.
Anyway, if we don't scare off Calatrava (for Symphony Hall), then maybe we can get Michael Graves back to do another mid-rise office bldgggggg...........but please, don't anybody wake John Portman.
It's all relative, and it's all a work in progress. ATL really is getting better & w/ all ya'll Einsteins moving down South to 'hep' us out, we'll move from being a nice city, to a Great city. If you don't dig it now, come back in 10 more years, Or just visit Europe for a while, but for goodness sake, stay away from Savannah! (Don't you guys enjoy Boston, or WDC enough)
Well, back to my artificial lake.
With all of it's faults, I'd say Atlanta is one of the top cities in the South. But, I'm interested in which other Southern Cities impress ya'll (youse guys).
I'll start off w/: Savannah, Charleston, Chattanooga, Birmingham & Asheville. I'd mention a few FLA cities...but that's not really the South. Oh what the heyll: Miami, St. Pete, Seaside (to the extent that it ushered in a phase of Architecture to the region, but that sword is double-edged).
Hey J,
Yeah, it's a big un, (aren't they always)..but I can't wait to have an IKEA here.
some northern cities havent been very cool the past few days....
J,
You're right about those cities. All ya'll listen to J, you don't wanna waste your time with those places. I should be discouraging more people from visiting, what am I thinking. Now more room for me.
i didn't do it.
the block where the fire started didnt have any electrical in it yet so there's a decent chance its arson.
howard roark?
I was in church. I got witnesses. I refer you to my post on "Most Dangerous Things You've Ever Done". Attempted arson isn't there....yet.
Got some comments... couldn't resist:*
*Fun Fact: The arch from TEXAS is JHP. They are the Thomas Kincaid of our profession.
>"Dillard made an effort to create a more urban facade... E for Effort?"
*Please! I guess you are referring to the spandral glazing for the blank wall recesses on that HUGE box. 1. An urban facade has true transparency which contributes to implied and/or actual safety. 2. Effort is defined as making an attempt or actually trying. Sorry they get an F for Fukking Awful. 3. Also missing - Human scale, diverse use, natural lighting, and sustainable building materials/practices but the 1/4" brick veneer sure helps.
>"The shopping mall as we know it is on its way out the door. A movement dubbed new urbanism ..." *This quote is awesome! I think most developers stop listening right there. "SOLD! I'm off to buy more tassled loafers."
>"...the fountained lake will form the community 'focal point' for concerts, festivals or simply an evening stroll." *Maybe... IF you jump the 8'-0" fence which keeps you out of that nasty thing! I keep waiting on them to post this sign around it because it is probably seeping from all the hazards they 'capped.' http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/pictures/warning.jpg
Or a quaint image in the marketing package: http://devnull.alink.co.za/photos/misc/blanco09/big/05.jpg
Finally I think the only thing creative on this site is probably the financing and, of course, the fake fire hydrants in the dog-park. In case the dogs out there didn't know they could obviously crap anywhere - the developers did!
Icing on the cake... the 'Arc de Bubba' IS coming. http://www.atlanticstation.com/pressrelease_peaceandjustice.php
I was in grad school in ATL when construction began on Atlantic Station. We took a tour one day with the an architect that worked for the developer. He was so excited to tell us about this great EIFS brick that he had discovered. He told us how much money they were going to save by only using real brick for the "street level" and then this EIFS brick for the rest of the buildings. My class tried to hold back the laughter.
I was just in town again a few weeks ago, one week after the grand opening of the retail area, so I took some time to check out the train wreck. It was worse than I ever could have imagined. Apparently, they VE'd the real brick out at some point in time and decided to go all EIFS. YES!!!! There was one building that was not quite complete and at first glance I noticed that something looked strange. Upon further inspection, I realized that the painting was not complete. Half of the building had already had the fake "grout lines" painted, the other half was still just brick colored EIFS.
Another thing that drove me nuts was all of the expansion joints. THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!! They come down one side of a building, across the sidewalk and "street" and then up the next building. They are all just nasty black expansion joints. You'd think that they would have developed a better solution.
Finally, my biggest complaint was the sidewalks. They are about 10'-0" wide and brick paved, which is fine. However, the tree wells (w/o tree grates) are 5' to 6' square which reduces the walkable area of the sidewalk to about 4'. You can barely walk 2 people side by side. ARGH!!!
Enough ranting for now. I don't even have time to get into the architectural design problems.
I live in Atlantic Station, mostly because my g-friend and I were looking for a specific type of apartment within a certain price-bracket. And, the potential pedestrian environment drew us to it.
My take on Atlantic Station is this: Of course the architecture is terrible and the urban planning is questionable (the sidewalk statement definitely made me laugh), but atleast everyday people are talking about urban planning. Remember, this is Atlanta, a city filled with urban sprawl, cheap developers, and strip malls. Just take a drive down 14th street on the West side of I-75 and see what Atlantic Station would have looked like had it been developed 20 years ago. Strip malls with empty parking lots galore.
i'm feeling a touch cynical today so here goes:
i think the major thing that disappoints me about this project is not necessarily the architecture or the urban planning, but the public opinion of it. j, you are absolutely right when you say people love it. i've met several people who can't wait to move into one of the eifs boxes...some of them are even work in 'the arts'...
that's the thing, though: 90% of the general population doesn't know that the brick is painted styrofoam, and those who do probably don't care...it's more about having a new movie theater and a california pizza kitchen. in this case, 'quality' is not a physical thing but a state of mind or an experience. if john q public drives into atlantic station, parks in the deck, has a bite to eat, gets some new cargo pants, and can find his car again without seeing anything upsetting, i think his perception of the place will be favorable. i'm not trying to belittle the intelligence of the general population, but people have other preoccupations (different than myself and most archinectors), and developers know how to exploit that at the lowest cost.
i'd be very interested to see atlantic station in 15 years. i don't see how something built that fast and that cheap can last that long.
is it just me or do any of you here in ATL find the advertising for atlantic station disturbing? when i hear commercials for it on the radio, it is being dubbed as a place for fake breasts, one night stands, and morning after coffee for young atlantic station groupies. absolutely hilarious.
it really does amaze me how gullible we are sometimes.
I haven't heard the ads yet, because I try to avoid stupid commercials. But, I guess their target market is the 20-somethings, either in college or right out of college. Atlanta has also become a place where people start their careers right out of college from various parts of the country. They are probably trying to tap that market. It'll be interesting to see how they market Atlantic Station to the 20-somethings moving to Atlanta. I wonder what the perception of AS is to the non-Atlantan moving to the city for the first time.
For a man who used to live in Atlanta, and for someone who travels there frequently, all I can say is "meh". But this is Atlanta, and it's what we should expect of Atlanta. Atlanta is a city with near limitless opprotunity. And that opprotunity has been squandered at evey turn. Whenever any developer, be they Portman or the people behind Atlantic Station have tried to put any development project there that borders on urban renewal or new urbanism, even with the best intentions, they pretty much fail from an architectural standpoint. Portman has been attacked constantly for his efforts even though they have spurred growth and renewal in a few cases (Atlanta, Times Square), or failed horribly (Ren Cen, due to budget cuts). Why do these people fail? Because Atlanta is inherantly anti-urban, and even trying for a new urbanism there is to invite crushing defeat, it's like trying to invade Russia, some things just don't work. Atlantic Station could be designed by the world's greatest architect, but it would still appear overly internalized and village-like.
But is Atlanta as a city lost? No. You don't go to Atlanta for architecture, but for the very reason that it is anti-urban, it could become an excellent testing ground for all types of architecutral typolgies as yet unexplored. How much effort do architects have to go through to get a design realized in a city as political and historical as New York? Those kinds of restrictions don't exist in Atlanta, there isn't that much of a system there in place to define what an architecture should be, instead architecture can be what it wants to be, free of restrictions like the grid. It's just a damn shame no one (expect Portman, for as much as people hate him) has really tried it.
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