while lunching on some tasty potato poblano soup today, a very very attractive teenage girl came into the restaurant, stood in front of me for several minutes, as i was sitting right near where one orders their food, tried to keep my mind on the cubs boxscore, but must admit my eyes were all over this girl. couldnt help it.. another depressing thing about getting older. even lusting in your heart makes you feel creepy and pathetic.
if you must be on a diet and yet have a terrible weakness for chocolate does it make sense to keep chocolate in front of you?
yet..it is true that it is only crossing the line if you actually eat it...
but in the meantime, you can't do anything else because you obsess about the chocolate, and you probably don't want your vegetables either, because in comparison they are so uninteresting.
therefore
obsession with attractive people of the opposite sex can and does have an effect on an established relationship, whether or not you succomb to the temptation to touch.
it's more like cocoa beans vs. chocolate.
if you like chocolate and you see a unsweetened bar of baker's chocolate, you might accidentally be tempted to take a bite. but you definitely wouldn't go eating raw cocoa beans. if you had a hankering for those beans... then that's weird.
While walking to a meeting on a Philly sidewalk one summer day I saw a slight hubbub half a block ahead, people moving out of the way, some pounding noise - and suddenly I found myself facing the Penn men's track team jogging shirtless towards, then all around, then away from me. Whew.
I didn't concentrate too well on the meeting after that. Hot young women aren't the only ones on the receiving end of helpless staring.
Difference is, as a woman I don't feel creepy and pathetic doing it - but I do try to take care to do it discreetly. And sorry cyn but I disagree with you - looking but not touching is not only OK but healthy.
hey don't put words in my mouth, i never said it was unhealthy to look. read my posts again, please. i myself look at the young guys regularly.
BUT the title of this thread is humbert humbert--has anyone here ever read lolita????? HH was basically an autobiographical figure for ol' nabokov, who had the same problem...
it's about an older guy who was completely and pathetically obsessed with young girls--one in particular. we are NOT talking about healthy interest if we are talking about HH....we are talking about a weak old fool desperate because he is aging willing to do just about anything including marrying her mother to be near her to seduce her (nothing personal vado, but hey, you're the one who chose the title of the thread...ha ha--what were you thinking, anyway?!)
and just to put it in perspective...having been the object of interest for several HHs in the past...the young attractive girls think the old guys are pathetic...it is a complete turnoff to see an old man panting and drooling at you...ugh!
Sorry cyn you're right - we agree that if it's in the obsessive territory that is when it becomes unhealthy. But I'd argue that's true whether you're in a relationship or not.
To aim this back towards architecture, there are moments in life when some occurence catches you by surprise and redirects your attention for a moment. Maybe makes you suddenly aware that you have a body that inhabits a material earth that offers physical (including visual) pleasure. Suddenly being surrounded briefly by a crowd of half-naked men did this for me once, and walking into the Saarinen chapel at MIT did this for me too. Breaking a shoelace mid-tie can also do it!
I love when architecture can provide those moments. The wonderful little Michael Benedikt book (can't remember the title, it's on the archinect book list) is entirely about this phenomenon. I think as architects we need to be hyper aware of how physical material affects humans emotionally, and noticing the beauty of other human bodies is part of that expertise.
So ... speaking of HH ... one of my college advisors was Alfred Appel (author of "The Annotated Lolita"), and one of Vladimir Nabokov's gradutae students at Cornell during the 60s (or was it the 50s) ... anyways, Appel told us that Nabokov was a strange cat: he was a professional lepidopterist (butterfly catcher) and had thousands of insect specimens in his offices; he also had shoeboxes filled with English-language flash cards made out of index cards. The thing was that the index cards contained very baroque polysyllabic English words. Nabokov was also a masterful punner. The story goes that Appel and Nabokov were taking a bus into Ithaca, where by Appel saw a couple making out in front of them.
"Spooning is not allowed on buses," says Appel.
"They are spooning now. Tonight they will be forking," says Nabokov.
what do guys find so appealing about these types of girls (aka the paris hilton types)? the breasts, fake hair and ample amounts of makeup? another guy hot that i don't get is the olsen twins... they look like little monkeys with big sunglasses.
the only thing appealing about paris is her money. better to be hot on liselle pritzker, she actually has acting talent and is much richer than paris and then their is her last name of course. any of you boys at columbia should look her up.
sunday while munching on a bagel and reading the sunday paper, one of the cute gurls who works at the cafe where i was breakfasting stood at the inside of the store's door with a puzzled look on her face. what are you doing i asked her. oh i am trying to read the hours on that we are open (which were on the door) so i can figure out how many hours i've worked, cuz i cant go over. are you on work release from jail? i asked. no she replied i can only work so many hours because i am under sixteen. god...
haha. man you should visit japan, or better, just tokyo. the girls here all wanna be lolitas (its aweird cultural thing here that i still don't quite get but the role models are 25 year olds that act, talk, and look like they are 14) and their school uniforms totally contribute to the ambition (ALL schools here are uniform mandatory, and lately the fashion is to hike the skirts up real high to make them VERY short). luckily the girls in uniform are without question off limits. so no surprises.
anyway, just looking is normal. there are some sick fucks out here who buy soiled panties from teenage girls, god knows what for, but this is a real business. nah. you is healthy vado. when you start spending cash on the dirty underwear of twelve year olds you come see me. i know all kinds of pavlovian techniques that will help...
My utterly adorable lawn boy looks to be about 16. Then I found out he's a college freshman, so 18 at least - whew!! Sadly the cold weather is now here and the lawn doesn't need mowing, so I can no longer make my totally selfless weekly contributions to his college fund. Awww.
very very attractive teenage girls are an indicator of societal health and should be appreciated as such. God loves them all! Check out as many as you can as discreetly as you can for as long as you can. That it lowers the blood pressure is a true fact - lusting in your heart is good for it! Not creepy and pathetic at all - as long as it stays in your heart . . .
I think people look better with their clothes on: clothes as an extension of the body. I love looking at people: mature adults. They are so unselfconscious of their beauty. My gazing is quite innocent. It keeps me young at heart even though I am a quite wasted and decrepit 51. The ferry, the sidewalk, the grocery store: this is my stomping ground...
Patrick: I applaud you for your sophistication. It works the other way around as well. As a young callow Canadian man in my 20s I was attracted to a much older European woman. It was all quite innocent but she was formative of my life much in the manner of the hero in "A Sentimental Education" by Bovary or the young man in "Cherie" by Colette.
Oh Patrick. When you were living here weren't you seeing a quite successful, fully adult investement banker? :)
I have found that age doesn't correlate with maturity or sanity at all. This is not specifically an age thing, but I don't understand wanting to be in a relationship where one person or the other was, mostly one-sidedly, "providing enrichment for one less experienced, both intellectually and materially."
If I were the provider, I would get seriously annoyed with the other person very quickly - I don't want actual children, so why would I babysit one in a dating context? If the other person were the provider the majority of the time, I'd feel inadequate or condescended-to; this is supposed to be the person I'm dating, not my parent!
Now, I think reciprocity is what's important, sometimes able to be strong, sometimes able to admit when support is needed, and to adapt as those roles change. Basically I need to feel funadmentally equal, and comfortable in both roles, and for the other person also to do that.
I have noticed that a lot of people, men especially, are terrified of letting anyone know that sometimes they do need support too and can't always be the provider. So to avoid confronting the fact that they have weaknesses as well as strengths, they go after "younger" people (not linked to temporal age, but anyone who is terribly needy.. it's most typical to read all of this into the biologically young, but they aren't always or only the needy ones). Because no matter what they face in the rest of their lives at work, etc. they will always be the stronger powerful one in their romantic lives. And a "younger" person who is dependent may not recognize or be able to call out any of the weaknesses present, as they will always be in a position of looking up to the other person. But it's much more genuinely strong to be able to own all every emotional state than to pretend to be such an unflinching rock all of the time.
So I think it's best to be capable of being attracted to the potential & the beauty of young people, and also to the confidence and maturity of older people, and be smart enough to weed out the stupid/psychotic people of all ages, and just like who you like.. right?
vado: there are 25 entries in google for "dressing you with my eyes"...
my great-grandfather Devlin enjoyed looking at the pretty girls up until his nineties. then one day he said, 'I'm tired of looking at pretty girls' and he up and died.
totally fucked up. its a problem in tokyo because of the high-expense youth culture and the lack of real challenges to otherwise grab their attention. its amazing to talk with the adults who grew up after the war and the kids growing up now. the former still work damn hard (my parents in law are my own example) and the youths are sorta wondering why. i think they are plain bored.
my daughters are still too young to be involved in any of that but is seriously worrying. maybe i'll move to amstredam where things are more sane...
There is a film out about that exact subject called "L'amant". It should be around your local independent theater or film festival near you.
Description:
Pledged to fulfill their mentor's pornographic dying wish, three middle-aged men (Ren Osugi, Jun Murakami and Tomorowo Taguchi), called simply A, B and C, establish a sex-contract for one year with Chikako (Nozomi Ando), a 17-year-old schoolgirl. They are prototypical vitality-deficient men on the verge of impotence. She is required to respond to their demands at any time. Sexually, Chikako (or Hanako, as the men name her after their bosses daughter, whom he had a deep obsession with) is game, but emotionally, she is entirely shut down. She doesn't care about her own name, or the names of the men. At no point does Chikako become passionate. Instead, she is always somber, appearing to have successfully numbed her mind and soul. Despite owning her, the men never seem to have a grasp on Chikako, and as she grows and matures, the men regress. The girl notices a childishness in the men that is both pathetic and endearing. From her perspective, she is capitalizing on her youth and sexuality, outsmarting the men, selling her body to become rich. The men are not the only ones looking to sexually exploit. After spilling a drink on her dress at a movie, her female schoolmate begins lusting for her. Chikako leaves, only to be raped in the washroom by a stranger. Days pass, and she discovers why she was chosen as the contract ends. Controversial themes tweak morals and emotions, and sex with a teen may offend, but Chikako is calculating and intelligent, foregoing appearances of the victim. Director Hiroki Ryuichi shows the dark, stoic side of life, and it's all business. Based on a popular shojo manga by Naito Yamada, "L'Amant" deals with gender politics and raises questions about social values and beliefs.
yeah, pretty much real (in certain areas), though i have never seen a woman wait at home and bow down when the hubby returns. That is i believe some very serious fiction, or else just wishful thinking...
my mother in law is tough as nails and won't put up with shit no how no way from anyone who doesn't show her respect inclusing her husband; and as far as i can tell she is typical of the conservative 50-somethings in japan. so am not so sure of that image of japanese women as soft and obedient. i don't know if it ever existed but it certainly hasn't been real since the war. step-mum does on the other hand cook and clean and do all the housework, and she would be deeply dissapointed in her husband if he was a freeter who didn't know that working hard is the meaning of life and didn't work like the devil to support the family.
I think the male/female situation here has always been different than in the west in subtle ways that made the sexual revolution sort of a non-event here. sex is to begin with incredibly open and not a taboo (no christian-murky morality to deal with), and that is i think both good and bad. but it is true that women are only just beginning to get anywhere in the work force and the sex trade does seem to be filled with images of violence towards women that os quite disturbing (the comics are very insane). but just wait a few more years when the shrinking population really becomes painful for the country. women are gonna become much more powerful. The nuclear family is still viable here but it may go the way of the dodo after that. will be interesting to see...
but getting back to the skank stuff, the most horrible sign that the culture is getting weird is the need for women-only cars in the subways. made necessary by the ubiquity of men surreptitiously fondling the women during crowded rush hour when it is nearly impossible to ID the offender. No vados or humberts allowed on those trains. sad (that it is necessary).
Humbert Humbert
while lunching on some tasty potato poblano soup today, a very very attractive teenage girl came into the restaurant, stood in front of me for several minutes, as i was sitting right near where one orders their food, tried to keep my mind on the cubs boxscore, but must admit my eyes were all over this girl. couldnt help it.. another depressing thing about getting older. even lusting in your heart makes you feel creepy and pathetic.
mmm, potato poblano...
"You can always count on a murderer for a fancy prose style."
attributable to H.H.
american beauty -
Angela Hayes: What do you want?
Lester Burnham: Are you kidding? I want you.
are you single? if so, it's ok. if not...
if not, it's still okay. i look at both beautiful and ugly ppl alike. touching? now you've crossed the line.
You are a pedophile...
I am a pedophile...
We are all pedophiles, lusting and craving that most crafty of illusions: perpetual youth, timelessness, immortality...
if you must be on a diet and yet have a terrible weakness for chocolate does it make sense to keep chocolate in front of you?
yet..it is true that it is only crossing the line if you actually eat it...
but in the meantime, you can't do anything else because you obsess about the chocolate, and you probably don't want your vegetables either, because in comparison they are so uninteresting.
therefore
obsession with attractive people of the opposite sex can and does have an effect on an established relationship, whether or not you succomb to the temptation to touch.
biologically speaking...
sex traits on animals mark the development of an animal and if they are capable of reproducing. i like boobies cause it's hardwired into my brain.
essentially, i wouldn't worry too much if she was passable for 18, 20 or so. if she looked like she was 12. you've got problems.
cyn-
it's more like cocoa beans vs. chocolate.
if you like chocolate and you see a unsweetened bar of baker's chocolate, you might accidentally be tempted to take a bite. but you definitely wouldn't go eating raw cocoa beans. if you had a hankering for those beans... then that's weird.
no this girly was close to legal and not a relative.
While walking to a meeting on a Philly sidewalk one summer day I saw a slight hubbub half a block ahead, people moving out of the way, some pounding noise - and suddenly I found myself facing the Penn men's track team jogging shirtless towards, then all around, then away from me. Whew.
I didn't concentrate too well on the meeting after that. Hot young women aren't the only ones on the receiving end of helpless staring.
Difference is, as a woman I don't feel creepy and pathetic doing it - but I do try to take care to do it discreetly. And sorry cyn but I disagree with you - looking but not touching is not only OK but healthy.
just be sure to wipe the drool from your face.
hoosiermama-well make sure you treat yourself and check out the i.u. swim team.
hey don't put words in my mouth, i never said it was unhealthy to look. read my posts again, please. i myself look at the young guys regularly.
BUT the title of this thread is humbert humbert--has anyone here ever read lolita????? HH was basically an autobiographical figure for ol' nabokov, who had the same problem...
it's about an older guy who was completely and pathetically obsessed with young girls--one in particular. we are NOT talking about healthy interest if we are talking about HH....we are talking about a weak old fool desperate because he is aging willing to do just about anything including marrying her mother to be near her to seduce her (nothing personal vado, but hey, you're the one who chose the title of the thread...ha ha--what were you thinking, anyway?!)
and just to put it in perspective...having been the object of interest for several HHs in the past...the young attractive girls think the old guys are pathetic...it is a complete turnoff to see an old man panting and drooling at you...ugh!
Sorry cyn you're right - we agree that if it's in the obsessive territory that is when it becomes unhealthy. But I'd argue that's true whether you're in a relationship or not.
Discretion is key.
To aim this back towards architecture, there are moments in life when some occurence catches you by surprise and redirects your attention for a moment. Maybe makes you suddenly aware that you have a body that inhabits a material earth that offers physical (including visual) pleasure. Suddenly being surrounded briefly by a crowd of half-naked men did this for me once, and walking into the Saarinen chapel at MIT did this for me too. Breaking a shoelace mid-tie can also do it!
I love when architecture can provide those moments. The wonderful little Michael Benedikt book (can't remember the title, it's on the archinect book list) is entirely about this phenomenon. I think as architects we need to be hyper aware of how physical material affects humans emotionally, and noticing the beauty of other human bodies is part of that expertise.
yuk
So ... speaking of HH ... one of my college advisors was Alfred Appel (author of "The Annotated Lolita"), and one of Vladimir Nabokov's gradutae students at Cornell during the 60s (or was it the 50s) ... anyways, Appel told us that Nabokov was a strange cat: he was a professional lepidopterist (butterfly catcher) and had thousands of insect specimens in his offices; he also had shoeboxes filled with English-language flash cards made out of index cards. The thing was that the index cards contained very baroque polysyllabic English words. Nabokov was also a masterful punner. The story goes that Appel and Nabokov were taking a bus into Ithaca, where by Appel saw a couple making out in front of them.
"Spooning is not allowed on buses," says Appel.
"They are spooning now. Tonight they will be forking," says Nabokov.
Hahaha.... That man was brilliant.
liberty bell--I believe the book is "An Architecture for Reality"?
paris and her mom are so hot
hot to trot?
> if she looked like she was 12. you've got problems.
how then to reconcile one's feelings for "the professional"-era natalie portman. seriously... and she was 11 in that one.
the cuervo gold
the fine colombian
make tonight a beautiful thing.
well honey that kinda is creepy. maybe you need some professional help!
yum yum!?!?!
what do guys find so appealing about these types of girls (aka the paris hilton types)? the breasts, fake hair and ample amounts of makeup? another guy hot that i don't get is the olsen twins... they look like little monkeys with big sunglasses.
it's natalie portman all the way people...
the only thing appealing about paris is her money. better to be hot on liselle pritzker, she actually has acting talent and is much richer than paris and then their is her last name of course. any of you boys at columbia should look her up.
sunday while munching on a bagel and reading the sunday paper, one of the cute gurls who works at the cafe where i was breakfasting stood at the inside of the store's door with a puzzled look on her face. what are you doing i asked her. oh i am trying to read the hours on that we are open (which were on the door) so i can figure out how many hours i've worked, cuz i cant go over. are you on work release from jail? i asked. no she replied i can only work so many hours because i am under sixteen. god...
haha. man you should visit japan, or better, just tokyo. the girls here all wanna be lolitas (its aweird cultural thing here that i still don't quite get but the role models are 25 year olds that act, talk, and look like they are 14) and their school uniforms totally contribute to the ambition (ALL schools here are uniform mandatory, and lately the fashion is to hike the skirts up real high to make them VERY short). luckily the girls in uniform are without question off limits. so no surprises.
anyway, just looking is normal. there are some sick fucks out here who buy soiled panties from teenage girls, god knows what for, but this is a real business. nah. you is healthy vado. when you start spending cash on the dirty underwear of twelve year olds you come see me. i know all kinds of pavlovian techniques that will help...
thats just wrong man.
My utterly adorable lawn boy looks to be about 16. Then I found out he's a college freshman, so 18 at least - whew!! Sadly the cold weather is now here and the lawn doesn't need mowing, so I can no longer make my totally selfless weekly contributions to his college fund. Awww.
juicy!
very very attractive teenage girls are an indicator of societal health and should be appreciated as such. God loves them all! Check out as many as you can as discreetly as you can for as long as you can. That it lowers the blood pressure is a true fact - lusting in your heart is good for it! Not creepy and pathetic at all - as long as it stays in your heart . . .
lb maybe he could clean your gutter(s)
Maybe....but I doubt he'd do it w/o his shirt on.
I think people look better with their clothes on: clothes as an extension of the body. I love looking at people: mature adults. They are so unselfconscious of their beauty. My gazing is quite innocent. It keeps me young at heart even though I am a quite wasted and decrepit 51. The ferry, the sidewalk, the grocery store: this is my stomping ground...
the more clothes i have on, the better i look. bring on winter. wears my parka?
Patrick: I applaud you for your sophistication. It works the other way around as well. As a young callow Canadian man in my 20s I was attracted to a much older European woman. It was all quite innocent but she was formative of my life much in the manner of the hero in "A Sentimental Education" by Bovary or the young man in "Cherie" by Colette.
Oh Patrick. When you were living here weren't you seeing a quite successful, fully adult investement banker? :)
I have found that age doesn't correlate with maturity or sanity at all. This is not specifically an age thing, but I don't understand wanting to be in a relationship where one person or the other was, mostly one-sidedly, "providing enrichment for one less experienced, both intellectually and materially."
If I were the provider, I would get seriously annoyed with the other person very quickly - I don't want actual children, so why would I babysit one in a dating context? If the other person were the provider the majority of the time, I'd feel inadequate or condescended-to; this is supposed to be the person I'm dating, not my parent!
Now, I think reciprocity is what's important, sometimes able to be strong, sometimes able to admit when support is needed, and to adapt as those roles change. Basically I need to feel funadmentally equal, and comfortable in both roles, and for the other person also to do that.
I have noticed that a lot of people, men especially, are terrified of letting anyone know that sometimes they do need support too and can't always be the provider. So to avoid confronting the fact that they have weaknesses as well as strengths, they go after "younger" people (not linked to temporal age, but anyone who is terribly needy.. it's most typical to read all of this into the biologically young, but they aren't always or only the needy ones). Because no matter what they face in the rest of their lives at work, etc. they will always be the stronger powerful one in their romantic lives. And a "younger" person who is dependent may not recognize or be able to call out any of the weaknesses present, as they will always be in a position of looking up to the other person. But it's much more genuinely strong to be able to own all every emotional state than to pretend to be such an unflinching rock all of the time.
So I think it's best to be capable of being attracted to the potential & the beauty of young people, and also to the confidence and maturity of older people, and be smart enough to weed out the stupid/psychotic people of all ages, and just like who you like.. right?
vado: there are 25 entries in google for "dressing you with my eyes"...
my great-grandfather Devlin enjoyed looking at the pretty girls up until his nineties. then one day he said, 'I'm tired of looking at pretty girls' and he up and died.
do they put that on their college apps as community service?
totally fucked up. its a problem in tokyo because of the high-expense youth culture and the lack of real challenges to otherwise grab their attention. its amazing to talk with the adults who grew up after the war and the kids growing up now. the former still work damn hard (my parents in law are my own example) and the youths are sorta wondering why. i think they are plain bored.
my daughters are still too young to be involved in any of that but is seriously worrying. maybe i'll move to amstredam where things are more sane...
There is a film out about that exact subject called "L'amant". It should be around your local independent theater or film festival near you.
Description:
Pledged to fulfill their mentor's pornographic dying wish, three middle-aged men (Ren Osugi, Jun Murakami and Tomorowo Taguchi), called simply A, B and C, establish a sex-contract for one year with Chikako (Nozomi Ando), a 17-year-old schoolgirl. They are prototypical vitality-deficient men on the verge of impotence. She is required to respond to their demands at any time. Sexually, Chikako (or Hanako, as the men name her after their bosses daughter, whom he had a deep obsession with) is game, but emotionally, she is entirely shut down. She doesn't care about her own name, or the names of the men. At no point does Chikako become passionate. Instead, she is always somber, appearing to have successfully numbed her mind and soul. Despite owning her, the men never seem to have a grasp on Chikako, and as she grows and matures, the men regress. The girl notices a childishness in the men that is both pathetic and endearing. From her perspective, she is capitalizing on her youth and sexuality, outsmarting the men, selling her body to become rich. The men are not the only ones looking to sexually exploit. After spilling a drink on her dress at a movie, her female schoolmate begins lusting for her. Chikako leaves, only to be raped in the washroom by a stranger. Days pass, and she discovers why she was chosen as the contract ends. Controversial themes tweak morals and emotions, and sex with a teen may offend, but Chikako is calculating and intelligent, foregoing appearances of the victim. Director Hiroki Ryuichi shows the dark, stoic side of life, and it's all business. Based on a popular shojo manga by Naito Yamada, "L'Amant" deals with gender politics and raises questions about social values and beliefs.
jump: does any of this ring true?
hey john,
yeah, pretty much real (in certain areas), though i have never seen a woman wait at home and bow down when the hubby returns. That is i believe some very serious fiction, or else just wishful thinking...
my mother in law is tough as nails and won't put up with shit no how no way from anyone who doesn't show her respect inclusing her husband; and as far as i can tell she is typical of the conservative 50-somethings in japan. so am not so sure of that image of japanese women as soft and obedient. i don't know if it ever existed but it certainly hasn't been real since the war. step-mum does on the other hand cook and clean and do all the housework, and she would be deeply dissapointed in her husband if he was a freeter who didn't know that working hard is the meaning of life and didn't work like the devil to support the family.
I think the male/female situation here has always been different than in the west in subtle ways that made the sexual revolution sort of a non-event here. sex is to begin with incredibly open and not a taboo (no christian-murky morality to deal with), and that is i think both good and bad. but it is true that women are only just beginning to get anywhere in the work force and the sex trade does seem to be filled with images of violence towards women that os quite disturbing (the comics are very insane). but just wait a few more years when the shrinking population really becomes painful for the country. women are gonna become much more powerful. The nuclear family is still viable here but it may go the way of the dodo after that. will be interesting to see...
but getting back to the skank stuff, the most horrible sign that the culture is getting weird is the need for women-only cars in the subways. made necessary by the ubiquity of men surreptitiously fondling the women during crowded rush hour when it is nearly impossible to ID the offender. No vados or humberts allowed on those trains. sad (that it is necessary).
i would never grope a woman without permission.
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