I am finishing working on this novel and writing the proposal for it, and I have long been curious as to how people in the architectural field would respond to it, gay or straight. A little late now, I know, but I knew I would write it regardless. The book is as much about architecture as it is this character. Do you find the topic too "stereotypical" or something you might relate to? I am not aware of this exact theme being addressed in a novel yet, but I could be wrong. Thank you for any input!
i'd be most interested in the novel's structure and where it goes, not so much whether the character is gay or an architect. michael cunningham writes about gay characters, but his novels do much more than this statement suggests, weaving a much larger understanding of an environment and a set of linked circumstances similar to those in books by eggers and franzen.
so, in the end, what sells it is if it's a solid book with enough sophistication and complexity to draw me in >gay theme, architecture theme, whatever. if its a sketch of what happens to a gay person in a situation dealing with architecuture - that's all - you probably wouldn't draw me very far into it.
no problem. i suggest you have more of a 'story' to pitching the book than gay/architecture theme. if i saw it in publishers weekly i wouldn't touch it, thinking it to be more genre than literature.
Yes, I struggle with that. Half of me hates that the bookstores have a separate "gay/lesbian" section although I understand they're making the public "aware." But good literature is good literature! At least Mary Renault got past the red tape. :) The universal themes in my book are relationships, religion, and the desire to achieve greatness in one's work. I guess "genre" is OK with me though--I can't deny what I'm writing. Thanks Steven.
Cyn: I know--YOU should write that! I read "Tipping the Velvet" and was *relieved* it was about lesbian women in the late 1800's because perhaps my novel would've otherwise been for naught. Didn't think it was the best but it was nice to see it out there and hey, BBC TV picked it up! I can't change 600 pages to a woman but wow, lesbian architects are far more under the radar, that's true. Great comment--thanks!
I'm still working on making the plot readable in a single paragraph. Here it is in a sentence: "This is a coming-of-age novel about a young American architect in Victorian England who struggles to cleave his homosexuality to his Catholic religion through a series of familial and social relationships, most notably the one he has with his adoptive father, mentor, and lover, Henry Sewell, and Henry’s two best friends." But my sentence doesn't explain yet the amazing world of architecture during the Industrial Revolution, and the opportunities architects had at that time to create entirely new structures with entirely new materials. My character is quite progressive, and the novel also focuses on the heresy of his theories at the time. And...that's enough chattiness. :P
Well, the idea of adopting your younger lover is rather lurid. The idea came from my visit to Robert Allerton's estate (of Monticello, IL) He was an architect who was so fond of his younger male friend that he adopted him!.It is rumored that he did that so that they could live together and travel together without any trouble (there is no outward admission that either was homosexual). I thought that was brilliant yet beyond belief that one would go to such lengths, and what a mark of the times that was. And yes, the struggle with religion is always difficult, I think. Still, this story ends well, something I find happens rarely with gay characters (or if it does end well, it's rather impractical, such as in the story "Maurice.") Thanks Cyn. :)
my feelings about your novel is that sex is out of fashion right now. Gay or straight: it doesn't matter. There is a new puritanism and with the revival of interest in religion and things with more intellectual content, I think people will be bored by the gay content of your novel. I wish it wasn't true, and things can turn around very quickly. Perhaps this revival of victorian values will die a natural death. My private belief is that we are losing too much by jettisoning sex out of our lives and culture. Blame it on Bush, blame it on the new pope, blame it on fear of disease and the disaster of overpopulation. It may turn around on a dime, in which case your novel will be a success and not just confined to the lesbian/gay shelves of the local bookstore.
John: Now that's interesting, because I was thinking the other way around. What with gay tv shows, coverage of gay issues in the media, gay lit in mainstream bookstores like B&N and Borders, and the increased number of pride parades and such, I think people may be bored with my novel BECAUSE it's not "a secret" anymore, or that BECAUSE men don't necessarily go underground anymore. However, maybe it's the old adage of "you go looking for it, you'll find it." And we know the majority of Americans still don't go looking for it and don't want to know it's there. There's no doubt that there's still a long way to go in some aspects, but still...again, the book is also about architecture--you architects/arch. students have my profound admiration! There is nothing that combines the aesthetic with the practical so well. Sure it's a romantic view but that's what makes it so alluring: the possibilities it affords. Back to John: I'm glad you made that point, as I will need to face that question when convincing the publishers (via agent). They may well bring up the same thing.
jules i think your initial instinct was correct. there are already alot of gay genre books etc out there and your novel will have to have a new twist to distinguish itself from the crowd. we live in a time of extremes and reactionism and that is why the bush/new pope thing which john correctly identifies...but there is definitely no revival of victorian values where i live. more like everyone is so jaded and blase that the sex in your novel will have to be pretty shocking to get anyone's attention.
from a literary point of view, how is architecture an essential part of the coming of age saga? it would seem that it needs to be integral to the coming of age process somehow in order to make it work.
when the love that dares not speak its name goes back in the closet, it is more attractive, because forbidden. everything is so open now that as cyn observes people are jaded about sex. since your novel takes place in the 1890s it is possible it will be truly erotic. also blasphemy doesn't hurt either (see Wilde's SALOME). How to tie it all in with architecture baffles me somehow. I guess I misused the word victorian, as, as we all know, they were so correct on the surface but really hot & horny underneath: a vast improvement on the situation of today with our ubiquitous rainbow pride parades etc.- most depressing...
John: How architecture ties in: Architects have the appearance of nobility and morality, of pureness and deep intellect, of creativity and responsibility. Think of Howard Roark in The Fountainhead. People live and die in architecture; they work and play, have sex, give birth, celebrate and mourn all in architecture. It is an absolute presence in the world. Because sexuality features largely in this story, as does religion, it was important to give my character a career that could stand on its own amongst those two very strong themes. The purity of architecture plays off of the (perceived) wickedness of same-sex love, occurring in one person (I understand that “obscene†architecture certainly exists—it gets a line in the book). My character also likes the idea of making something “eternal.†While his relationships with family, friends, and lovers turn out time and again to be ephemeral, he looks upon architecture (and religion) as eternal. And so he attempts in his work to achieve eternity. Eventually, the character comes to realize that it is not the building that will remain forever, but the design, and if one can create and idea nobody else has thought of, something that singularly stands on its own and is truly original, then it will be replicated or preserved by people forever. And that is the goal (similar to the idea of a soul vs. the physical body). Having him as an architect provides a way to show the attributes I mentioned in the first sentence, and very palpable achievement. Architecture is a testament to one’s very existence, is it not? Wherever a structure stands, its creator can point to it and say, “I was there. I made that. It would not exist now if not for me.†Again, a bit melodramatic (even the Forum is in ruins, after all) but it gets the point across.
Cyn: The coming of age theme: Well, I’m hard pressed to connect the architecture theme with the coming of age theme, other than the revelations aforementioned and the fact that his idol and mentor took him under his wing from age 20 to 30 and helped shape who he was. But I admit I think the issue of reconciling one’s homosexuality with one’s religion plays more of that role in my book. Finally, oh yes, Oscar Wilde. Of course my character meets him (and Bosie); you can’t have a Victorian book without him! The trial is featured, as it forced many men to flee the country after he was found guilty. My character is in the middle of a project, and so must find means to stay and be safe. Like you said, those crazy Victorians and their hypocritical ways. I’m not sure it’s as crazy as this country currently is. MTV giving girls body dysmorphic disorders while Bush thumps his macho chest. Yikes. But I wouldn’t have been able to write this book 100 years ago (and still wouldn’t be able to, in some countries)! So it’s a toss-up.
In response to Paris: Sure in the grand scheme of things, who cares what anyone is? But most interesting novels have some human struggles going on, and being a straight woman, I was fascinated with the struggle I will never experience: coming to terms with being a sexuality that is in the minority and considered “wrong†by many people. So I wrote about it. And you’re right, this may end up being “genre†because it won’t interest some the way it did me.
Zeth: I’m still figuring out how to safely have some people read the book to get their opinions before sending it out. I know people have put such things on the web but I’m just too old-fashioned to do it. But you made my day whether you intended the comment or not! Let’s hope you get to see it in print and if so, I’ll GIVE you as many copies as you want! Believe me, reading 650 pages and making comments would have to be a paid job. I have one friend who has volunteered, so that’s a start.
Thanks for everything, guys. You forced me to answer for what I’m doing.
Jun 14, 05 9:18 am ·
·
King Ludwig II of Bavaria died yesterday 119 years ago. Royal architecture was his legacy.
My (quondam) laptop was 'abducted' late 11 June (like Ludwig was abducted 11 June 1886 at Neuschwanstein). Then the laptop finally died yesterday.
Ludwig died in Starnberger See with the psychiatrist von Gudden. Ludwig was trying to kill von Gudden, so von Gudden was then trying to kill Ludwig. They eventually killed each other. So novel, no?
Could any of you give me a basic rundown of what being an architect is like? What's the real general feeling? From a lot of the threads I've read on Archinect, people sound overworked, underpaid, stressed out, and competing for jobs and changing firms time and again. I couldn't believe the site sells a t-shirt that says "Architecture Sucks!" I laughed out loud but then thought, one would have to have had some really crappy days to wear that shirt, even if it is tongue-in-cheek. Is the field flooded with surplus architects? As I wrote earlier, I very much romanticize the career, but don't want to sugar-coat it too much. I know being an architect back in 1890 was quite different from today. Do architects bemoan the fact that most of us are building for cheap practicality over aesthetics? What do you think of prefab housing? I know there's a push to prove beautiful structures can be built economically, but are the jobs out there? I have always thought of architects as a class unto themselves because they are (to me) much more artists in personality than they are physicists/engineers/draftsmen, yet they are the only combination I know of both (besides perhaps, interior designers, car designers, and graphic designers, none of which, I feel, make as much of a practical impact as architects). So in a way, it appears architects could be setting themselves up for letdowns throughout life, because they have the artistic sensibility, but they're in a 9-5 setting, complete with boss and cubicle. Or at least, that's the message I'm getting from the board. What is the average salary of an architect as well? The average size of an architectural firm? Do any of you think you would go into something different if you could do it all over? Or do you know you're in the right place, even with the sacrifices you may have had to made (and haven't we all)? Thank you!
we revel in our misery and celebrate through complaining.
your questions are on the mark, but it would take entirely too long to address them. lurking around this board is more likely to give you a good picture of what young architects/interns experience. even better, see if an office will let you hang around for a couple of days.
it's both as bad as it sounds and much, much better.
That is an inspiring line. I think most of your peers agree. Yes, I did risk it by being too long and hoping people had the time to answer free of charge. :D But your answer was great and what I'm looking for. I've been hesitant to do anything in person, but I guess if I start with a small, local firm they'd be more open to it perhaps than a place like Skidmore, Owens, and Merrill. And it couldn't hurt to ask though, you're right. Who doesn't do some kind of legwork to find out the real deal. OK!
That is an inspiring line. I think most of your peers agree. Yes, I did risk it by being too long and hoping people had the time to answer free of charge. :D But your answer was great and what I'm looking for. I've been hesitant to do anything in person, but I guess if I start with a small, local firm they'd be more open to it perhaps than a place like Skidmore, Owens, and Merrill. And it couldn't hurt to ask though, you're right. Who doesn't do some kind of legwork to find out the real deal. OK!
Thanks John! I definitely like the idea of falling in love/lust with a BUILDING. I have something already in the book that is similiar: "You and I are insane only in our perception of structural forms. We don't see them as other people do. Why, for example, take this afternoon: YOU practically climaxed upon seeing the Albert Memorial, whereas Howard here, well, to Howard it was just another structure, naturally. Perhaps he found it pleasing to look at but Howard, being of more sound mind, found something else more pleasing to look at, I'm sure." I should add that my character actually found the Prince Albert Memorial (no pun intended) in Hyde Park grotesque, but was taken by all of the gold leafing. Such a mini-shrine. And yes Vado, gay 90's indeed--I hope nobody says "This book puts the gay in 'gay 90's'!" God that would be awful, but probably deserved.
jules12: I am sure you have read Ibsen's "The Master Builder" about a very aggressive, ambitious architect. Published 1892. I just thought it related to your novel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_Builder
thanks for the last message. I saw the Albert Memorial years ago, but before he was re-gilded: I guess he is quite magnificent all in gold again...
I find it grotesque as design/architecture, but MAY one day love him.
John, you're always looking out for others! How did I miss "The Master Builder"?! It wasn't mentioned in any of my books on the period. The play presented in London on Feb. 20, 1893, so I must use it! I'll try to get a copy of the book today--seems like a pretty depressing story to me. Facing your mortality sucks! And I didn't even get to design an entire town...
I like that statement, "cleave his homosexuality to his Catholic religion," however would question its validity in a novel set in the 1890s where church wouldn't be his only worry...state, society, etc.
Additionally you speak about the opportunities that would of been afforded him, as a young architect. That to me seems to have the most holes. Much has been written about the limited success young architects had during the the industrial age relegated more times that not to the tradition that we are still trying to move beyond of simple draftsman no matter the scholastic training.
Any Interest in a Novel About a Gay Architect in 1890?
I am finishing working on this novel and writing the proposal for it, and I have long been curious as to how people in the architectural field would respond to it, gay or straight. A little late now, I know, but I knew I would write it regardless. The book is as much about architecture as it is this character. Do you find the topic too "stereotypical" or something you might relate to? I am not aware of this exact theme being addressed in a novel yet, but I could be wrong. Thank you for any input!
i'd be most interested in the novel's structure and where it goes, not so much whether the character is gay or an architect. michael cunningham writes about gay characters, but his novels do much more than this statement suggests, weaving a much larger understanding of an environment and a set of linked circumstances similar to those in books by eggers and franzen.
so, in the end, what sells it is if it's a solid book with enough sophistication and complexity to draw me in >gay theme, architecture theme, whatever. if its a sketch of what happens to a gay person in a situation dealing with architecuture - that's all - you probably wouldn't draw me very far into it.
Excellent. Very well put. Thank you so much.
P.S. If anyone cares to discuss at length, please feel free to email me at : [email protected] Thanks!
no problem. i suggest you have more of a 'story' to pitching the book than gay/architecture theme. if i saw it in publishers weekly i wouldn't touch it, thinking it to be more genre than literature.
what is the plot? the plot is everything.
maybe change to a lesbian architect for something new?
Yes, I struggle with that. Half of me hates that the bookstores have a separate "gay/lesbian" section although I understand they're making the public "aware." But good literature is good literature! At least Mary Renault got past the red tape. :) The universal themes in my book are relationships, religion, and the desire to achieve greatness in one's work. I guess "genre" is OK with me though--I can't deny what I'm writing. Thanks Steven.
Cyn: I know--YOU should write that! I read "Tipping the Velvet" and was *relieved* it was about lesbian women in the late 1800's because perhaps my novel would've otherwise been for naught. Didn't think it was the best but it was nice to see it out there and hey, BBC TV picked it up! I can't change 600 pages to a woman but wow, lesbian architects are far more under the radar, that's true. Great comment--thanks!
i can't write that book.
is there anything dark about the novel? sounds like there needs to be some intrigue...you know, to go with the dark secret...
I'm still working on making the plot readable in a single paragraph. Here it is in a sentence: "This is a coming-of-age novel about a young American architect in Victorian England who struggles to cleave his homosexuality to his Catholic religion through a series of familial and social relationships, most notably the one he has with his adoptive father, mentor, and lover, Henry Sewell, and Henry’s two best friends." But my sentence doesn't explain yet the amazing world of architecture during the Industrial Revolution, and the opportunities architects had at that time to create entirely new structures with entirely new materials. My character is quite progressive, and the novel also focuses on the heresy of his theories at the time. And...that's enough chattiness. :P
Well, the idea of adopting your younger lover is rather lurid. The idea came from my visit to Robert Allerton's estate (of Monticello, IL) He was an architect who was so fond of his younger male friend that he adopted him!.It is rumored that he did that so that they could live together and travel together without any trouble (there is no outward admission that either was homosexual). I thought that was brilliant yet beyond belief that one would go to such lengths, and what a mark of the times that was. And yes, the struggle with religion is always difficult, I think. Still, this story ends well, something I find happens rarely with gay characters (or if it does end well, it's rather impractical, such as in the story "Maurice.") Thanks Cyn. :)
yes that does sound lurid--and that may be great material for the novel --esp if it includes confusion that needs to be worked out.
good luck! sounds interesting!
my feelings about your novel is that sex is out of fashion right now. Gay or straight: it doesn't matter. There is a new puritanism and with the revival of interest in religion and things with more intellectual content, I think people will be bored by the gay content of your novel. I wish it wasn't true, and things can turn around very quickly. Perhaps this revival of victorian values will die a natural death. My private belief is that we are losing too much by jettisoning sex out of our lives and culture. Blame it on Bush, blame it on the new pope, blame it on fear of disease and the disaster of overpopulation. It may turn around on a dime, in which case your novel will be a success and not just confined to the lesbian/gay shelves of the local bookstore.
John: Now that's interesting, because I was thinking the other way around. What with gay tv shows, coverage of gay issues in the media, gay lit in mainstream bookstores like B&N and Borders, and the increased number of pride parades and such, I think people may be bored with my novel BECAUSE it's not "a secret" anymore, or that BECAUSE men don't necessarily go underground anymore. However, maybe it's the old adage of "you go looking for it, you'll find it." And we know the majority of Americans still don't go looking for it and don't want to know it's there. There's no doubt that there's still a long way to go in some aspects, but still...again, the book is also about architecture--you architects/arch. students have my profound admiration! There is nothing that combines the aesthetic with the practical so well. Sure it's a romantic view but that's what makes it so alluring: the possibilities it affords. Back to John: I'm glad you made that point, as I will need to face that question when convincing the publishers (via agent). They may well bring up the same thing.
jules i think your initial instinct was correct. there are already alot of gay genre books etc out there and your novel will have to have a new twist to distinguish itself from the crowd. we live in a time of extremes and reactionism and that is why the bush/new pope thing which john correctly identifies...but there is definitely no revival of victorian values where i live. more like everyone is so jaded and blase that the sex in your novel will have to be pretty shocking to get anyone's attention.
from a literary point of view, how is architecture an essential part of the coming of age saga? it would seem that it needs to be integral to the coming of age process somehow in order to make it work.
when the love that dares not speak its name goes back in the closet, it is more attractive, because forbidden. everything is so open now that as cyn observes people are jaded about sex. since your novel takes place in the 1890s it is possible it will be truly erotic. also blasphemy doesn't hurt either (see Wilde's SALOME). How to tie it all in with architecture baffles me somehow. I guess I misused the word victorian, as, as we all know, they were so correct on the surface but really hot & horny underneath: a vast improvement on the situation of today with our ubiquitous rainbow pride parades etc.- most depressing...
Cyn and John--GREAT stuff and I'll definitely reply tomorrow on the architecture bit from both of you. My brain is currently fried!
who cars if an architect is gay or straight?
can i get a copy
John: How architecture ties in: Architects have the appearance of nobility and morality, of pureness and deep intellect, of creativity and responsibility. Think of Howard Roark in The Fountainhead. People live and die in architecture; they work and play, have sex, give birth, celebrate and mourn all in architecture. It is an absolute presence in the world. Because sexuality features largely in this story, as does religion, it was important to give my character a career that could stand on its own amongst those two very strong themes. The purity of architecture plays off of the (perceived) wickedness of same-sex love, occurring in one person (I understand that “obscene†architecture certainly exists—it gets a line in the book). My character also likes the idea of making something “eternal.†While his relationships with family, friends, and lovers turn out time and again to be ephemeral, he looks upon architecture (and religion) as eternal. And so he attempts in his work to achieve eternity. Eventually, the character comes to realize that it is not the building that will remain forever, but the design, and if one can create and idea nobody else has thought of, something that singularly stands on its own and is truly original, then it will be replicated or preserved by people forever. And that is the goal (similar to the idea of a soul vs. the physical body). Having him as an architect provides a way to show the attributes I mentioned in the first sentence, and very palpable achievement. Architecture is a testament to one’s very existence, is it not? Wherever a structure stands, its creator can point to it and say, “I was there. I made that. It would not exist now if not for me.†Again, a bit melodramatic (even the Forum is in ruins, after all) but it gets the point across.
Cyn: The coming of age theme: Well, I’m hard pressed to connect the architecture theme with the coming of age theme, other than the revelations aforementioned and the fact that his idol and mentor took him under his wing from age 20 to 30 and helped shape who he was. But I admit I think the issue of reconciling one’s homosexuality with one’s religion plays more of that role in my book. Finally, oh yes, Oscar Wilde. Of course my character meets him (and Bosie); you can’t have a Victorian book without him! The trial is featured, as it forced many men to flee the country after he was found guilty. My character is in the middle of a project, and so must find means to stay and be safe. Like you said, those crazy Victorians and their hypocritical ways. I’m not sure it’s as crazy as this country currently is. MTV giving girls body dysmorphic disorders while Bush thumps his macho chest. Yikes. But I wouldn’t have been able to write this book 100 years ago (and still wouldn’t be able to, in some countries)! So it’s a toss-up.
In response to Paris: Sure in the grand scheme of things, who cares what anyone is? But most interesting novels have some human struggles going on, and being a straight woman, I was fascinated with the struggle I will never experience: coming to terms with being a sexuality that is in the minority and considered “wrong†by many people. So I wrote about it. And you’re right, this may end up being “genre†because it won’t interest some the way it did me.
Zeth: I’m still figuring out how to safely have some people read the book to get their opinions before sending it out. I know people have put such things on the web but I’m just too old-fashioned to do it. But you made my day whether you intended the comment or not! Let’s hope you get to see it in print and if so, I’ll GIVE you as many copies as you want! Believe me, reading 650 pages and making comments would have to be a paid job. I have one friend who has volunteered, so that’s a start.
Thanks for everything, guys. You forced me to answer for what I’m doing.
King Ludwig II of Bavaria died yesterday 119 years ago. Royal architecture was his legacy.
My (quondam) laptop was 'abducted' late 11 June (like Ludwig was abducted 11 June 1886 at Neuschwanstein). Then the laptop finally died yesterday.
Ludwig died in Starnberger See with the psychiatrist von Gudden. Ludwig was trying to kill von Gudden, so von Gudden was then trying to kill Ludwig. They eventually killed each other. So novel, no?
Could any of you give me a basic rundown of what being an architect is like? What's the real general feeling? From a lot of the threads I've read on Archinect, people sound overworked, underpaid, stressed out, and competing for jobs and changing firms time and again. I couldn't believe the site sells a t-shirt that says "Architecture Sucks!" I laughed out loud but then thought, one would have to have had some really crappy days to wear that shirt, even if it is tongue-in-cheek. Is the field flooded with surplus architects? As I wrote earlier, I very much romanticize the career, but don't want to sugar-coat it too much. I know being an architect back in 1890 was quite different from today. Do architects bemoan the fact that most of us are building for cheap practicality over aesthetics? What do you think of prefab housing? I know there's a push to prove beautiful structures can be built economically, but are the jobs out there? I have always thought of architects as a class unto themselves because they are (to me) much more artists in personality than they are physicists/engineers/draftsmen, yet they are the only combination I know of both (besides perhaps, interior designers, car designers, and graphic designers, none of which, I feel, make as much of a practical impact as architects). So in a way, it appears architects could be setting themselves up for letdowns throughout life, because they have the artistic sensibility, but they're in a 9-5 setting, complete with boss and cubicle. Or at least, that's the message I'm getting from the board. What is the average salary of an architect as well? The average size of an architectural firm? Do any of you think you would go into something different if you could do it all over? Or do you know you're in the right place, even with the sacrifices you may have had to made (and haven't we all)? Thank you!
we revel in our misery and celebrate through complaining.
your questions are on the mark, but it would take entirely too long to address them. lurking around this board is more likely to give you a good picture of what young architects/interns experience. even better, see if an office will let you hang around for a couple of days.
it's both as bad as it sounds and much, much better.
That is an inspiring line. I think most of your peers agree. Yes, I did risk it by being too long and hoping people had the time to answer free of charge. :D But your answer was great and what I'm looking for. I've been hesitant to do anything in person, but I guess if I start with a small, local firm they'd be more open to it perhaps than a place like Skidmore, Owens, and Merrill. And it couldn't hurt to ask though, you're right. Who doesn't do some kind of legwork to find out the real deal. OK!
That is an inspiring line. I think most of your peers agree. Yes, I did risk it by being too long and hoping people had the time to answer free of charge. :D But your answer was great and what I'm looking for. I've been hesitant to do anything in person, but I guess if I start with a small, local firm they'd be more open to it perhaps than a place like Skidmore, Owens, and Merrill. And it couldn't hurt to ask though, you're right. Who doesn't do some kind of legwork to find out the real deal. OK!
jules 12: you might find this thread to be of some interest (perhaps)
http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=21173_0_42_0_C
I hope all goes well with your novel
it was called the "gay 90's" afterall.
Thanks John! I definitely like the idea of falling in love/lust with a BUILDING. I have something already in the book that is similiar: "You and I are insane only in our perception of structural forms. We don't see them as other people do. Why, for example, take this afternoon: YOU practically climaxed upon seeing the Albert Memorial, whereas Howard here, well, to Howard it was just another structure, naturally. Perhaps he found it pleasing to look at but Howard, being of more sound mind, found something else more pleasing to look at, I'm sure." I should add that my character actually found the Prince Albert Memorial (no pun intended) in Hyde Park grotesque, but was taken by all of the gold leafing. Such a mini-shrine. And yes Vado, gay 90's indeed--I hope nobody says "This book puts the gay in 'gay 90's'!" God that would be awful, but probably deserved.
jules12: I am sure you have read Ibsen's "The Master Builder" about a very aggressive, ambitious architect. Published 1892. I just thought it related to your novel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_Builder
thanks for the last message. I saw the Albert Memorial years ago, but before he was re-gilded: I guess he is quite magnificent all in gold again...
I find it grotesque as design/architecture, but MAY one day love him.
John, you're always looking out for others! How did I miss "The Master Builder"?! It wasn't mentioned in any of my books on the period. The play presented in London on Feb. 20, 1893, so I must use it! I'll try to get a copy of the book today--seems like a pretty depressing story to me. Facing your mortality sucks! And I didn't even get to design an entire town...
honestly, i live architecture 80 hrs a week, I would never waste my free time reading a novel about a fictional architect.
I like that statement, "cleave his homosexuality to his Catholic religion," however would question its validity in a novel set in the 1890s where church wouldn't be his only worry...state, society, etc.
Additionally you speak about the opportunities that would of been afforded him, as a young architect. That to me seems to have the most holes. Much has been written about the limited success young architects had during the the industrial age relegated more times that not to the tradition that we are still trying to move beyond of simple draftsman no matter the scholastic training.
But far too much bitch for a post from 2005
is this sh*t out yet? Haven't seen it on the bookshelves or Amazon yet
I'm so glad that someone namechecked "Tipping The Velvet" on Archinect.
Juiciest. Melodramatic. TV. Miniseries. EVER.
i watched that show susan! of course im into corsets :P
I (unfortunately) was suckered into watching the entire Tipping the Velvet miniseries about two years ago.
I think Susan Surface summed it up pretty well with her last five words.
i luv philip johnson :D but don't find him sexy
I wasn't even born in 1890. What would I be doing reading a novel in 1890?
Fair warning: this post has nothing to do with design.
Anyone heard of The Ditty Bops?
These two hot ladies play fun and whimsical, yet, beautiful music. This picture totally reminds me of Nan and Kitty from Tipping the Velvet.
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