it just came with a piece of paper that looks like an os disk that says ill never have to reformat so they didnt ship the disk. i did get some software disks maybe ill have to check that again.
that's odd. I have XP Pro and 2000, both came with disks specifically for each machine (you can only install back onto each respective machine). Who knows, though.
Damn, if Apple actually let's Windows run on their machines their market share would skyrocket! I'd certainly look at them, especially those gorgeous laptops. Too bad we'll have to wait so long.
Still, I won't hold my breath. They've switched manufacturer's before with no change. It seems odd that Jobs would do this, even with the obvious market increase - even using the Pentiums seems odd. Can't imagine Intel doesn't have some kind of deal with MS. We'll see.
Anyone know of links to articles? Yup, far too lazy to search ;-)
Nicoli - I've just gotten an XP media center laptop as well and am
a bit frustrated with the lack of a operating system disk - i.e.
the little disk shaped pc. of paper - what gives!!? - its already
asked me for the os disk when I tried to set up networking ....
alas
Nicoli - I've just gotten an XP media center laptop as well and am
a bit frustrated with the lack of a operating system disk - i.e.
the little disk shaped pc. of paper - what gives!!? - its already
asked me for the os disk when I tried to set up networking ....
alas
thaat is exactly what the guy i spoke to yesterday said. no disk. the os is inside the machine embedded onto a chip.
maybe they want you to buy a new machine when the os gets out of date?
I'd recommend you check out Slashdot for links and discussions.
However, your interpretation that Apple will now be a hardware maker building boxes that run Windows too seems farfetched. I recommend you check out Steve Jobs' keynote speech on the Apple website to get a better idea of what's going on. Basically, OSX is their baby and that's the market share they're looking to increase.
cyn:
Sorry about the link. I did post another none that should work.
No, I can't verify whether you can upgrade the Vaio. The whole mystery chip thing sounds way off to me. It just sounds like the guy's misunderstood something.
The Clie is a different piece of kit than a PC laptop. AFAIK, people are running Linux on these, but if the purpose is to run Windows it's quite possible you'll need to keep that Sony software to make it functional.
Nicoli:
Sometimes the OS or media discs are optional (at extra cost) when you order from Dell. But don't you want the Media Center services on your machine? Why do you want to reformat? I'd contact Dell support or check their website.
Oh, I'm talking out of my arse here...So did this guy ever get his laptop or what?
Ok, I just quickly looked at the Dell Media Center support pages.
It's pretty obvious that this is some combo of extra hardware and MS OS bits and so yeah, these extra OS bits might be 'embedded'.
Also, come to think of it, Sony usually offers these kind 'media experiences' type tools on their laptops. Maybe that's what the guy can't get drivers for.
henrik, i think what everyone is saying is that there are no disks because the os is 'hardwired'. you don't need disks because its 'already always there'. you know, as in 'being and time'....it is part of the 'being' of the machine...
whether you can install another os over the embedded chip-- like linux or an upgrade to a different windows version-- is also a question. i don't know the answer. like i said, the guy i spoke to said he could upgrade to xp pro by buying a registration key, but not sure of the other systems or later versions of windows. that setup with the embedded chip may be a marketing tool to get you to buy another machine.
henrik, i don't agree with your take on apple. and i wouldn't go solely by a keynote but take a look at apple's bigger strategy. i believe they are using osx to increase their market share of hardware sales. that only makes sense to me, otherwise they would be ok with licensing os x out to pc users and they have explicitly said no to that.
Ok, I finally started feeling uneasy about my arse doing the talking and have now done some research.
About the VAIO:
This link and this link both confirm the problem the poster in your link mentioned. However, they also suggest some solutions. As they are dated 2002 I'm not sure if they'd still be applicable. But in any case, it does seem that SOny will go out of their way to 'lock' you into a specific version of Windows.
About the Media Center:
Well, here's a Dutch person who HAS got the Dell MCE2005 cds, 'cept they don't work. But in his description you'll notice that MS informs him he should be able to use any Dell branded install cd or download as long as he has the original keys/license. I know this doesn't help you guys, but I would start hammering Dell for your Dell branded MCE2005 media. If not, then roam around for a download 'somewhere'.
As this thread would seem to indicate, being a pain in the ass should get you the cds eventually.
On Apple:
I'm not sure how anything I've contradicts your view. But I'm not an analyst or in the know. I don't think any of us really 'know' what Apple are up to or what specifically led them to announce the switch. I'm certain that with the BSD code base they can pretty much get OSX running on any kind of chip. Not just Intel. The feeling I got from the keynote (which I offered as an entry point to trace along with the recent Slashdot posts/discussions) was they want to built more fancy consumer style devices a la iPod. Basically become more Sony'esque (whatever the hell that means...). And they want to beat Longhorn.
Intel just wants to sell more chips and they need a company that deliver the can deliver the products that fit their strategy. In any case, it's a good coup for the new Intel CEO Let's wait and see. It'll be fun.
"At Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference earlier this month, Apple vice president Phil Schiller maintained the Mac OS X would run on Apple hardware only. "We will not allow running Mac OS X on anything other than an Apple Mac," he said.
But Schiller admitted, "That doesn't preclude someone from running [Windows] on a Mac. They probably will." "
After talking to my uber-computer friends, my understanding at this point, to boot from windows you'd have the completely flash your bios, as windows and OSX use different bios languages. So every time you'd want to switch OS, you'd have to reflash the bios. I'm sure someone will come up with a way around this, but it will make it unlikely that the average computer user will be running both Windows and OSX as a dual boot system. Then there are other issues, like with graphics cards. You used to be able to flash the PC bios over to the Mac version, but that is no longer the case on most cards (at least the ones I've looked at flashing over).
However, is it coincidence that Microsoft owns VirtualPC? I'm going to guess not. I bet it won't take them long to develop and release a version that runs extremely smoothly inside Tiger on the x86, with minimal performance hit. This way Apple isn't stepping on Microsoft's toes too much, but allows them to steal people from Windows much more easier.
But like henrik says, none of us "know" what Apple is really up to at this point.
could you eleborate 3ifs? I am not disagreeing, just want to hear why you think it a better value. Seems like they are pretty similar hardware wise, save for the pentium differences. Is it in the support? Well, that Pentium M processor has twice the cache which usually goes a long way for performance. I would take the higher cache. I need to read up more on the processors though. Don't pentium 4s run crazy hot? Don't have much experience with the Ms.
DO NOT GET MEDIA EDITION xp it sucks, well it is not as good as it should be.
nicoli and others: you are not crazy your system more than likely did NOT come with os boot disk, as mine did not. Media edition ios not even a microsoft product it is a special dell product microsoft does not support. I reformatted my machine 8 months ago a then brand new machine, but came with a ton of shit from dell, so i just whipped it clean. It took 2 weeks to get the operating system from dell. Then after reinstalling i moved to San francisco and 1 week later my harddrive fried, another 2 weeks later and a new harddrive with media edition it is just ok. Nothing too special but a big pain if something goes wrong, i would just stay away from it, unless you like talking to India.
Dell even with their problems still seem to be the cheapest, and still a descent computer. It is like they expect shit to go wrong with them so they just send you the part relativly pain free. Thats service from india.
Go with the dell
fwiw, a thinkpad is the only non-apple laptop I can imagine owning. (I have a 12in powerbook). solid build quality, great keyboard (never underestimate the importance of these two factors)
I subscribe to the notion that I don't need a Cadillac...err, sorry, we're in a forum of stylish folk - I don't need a BMW. But, I need performance better than a Kia. So, I bought either a Honda, or a Ford: I use a Copaq Presario R3000 w/ a 15" screen & a bunch of features that makes me yawn to describe 'em, but they do a very good job for what I need. That would be AutoCAD, Adobe stuff, Internet, etc, etc. I'm a power user, but I really could care less about the PC techobabble, it deos what I want for a fraction of the cost of a Vaio (the BMW of PCs) or a Mac (also a BMW).
The 'pros': Cost, very good speed, easy to use, no problems (after 8mos), exc. features.
The 'cons': A bit bulky, not as kool to look at as a Vaio, crummy pointer-pad (when you don't have a mouse), power adapter is too dang big, but I think that's common among laptops.
This one cost abt. $1200 & I'm very happy w/ the purchase.
Kia..................Ford............................BMW. Most architects should live w/in their means & shun the Bimmer.
MysteryMan, I have a Compaq Evo N1020v. It has a 2.4ghz P4, 512MB Ram, etc. I bought Compaq pretty much because of the price, and because my uni used Compaq computers exclusively.
I have never had a problem in 2 years of daily running, including running Autocad, Viz, Rhino, Photoshop etc. No regrets. Thats also why I am getting a new HP NW8240.
Hey DIABASE,
I'm looking for a 2nd laptop 'cause I'm looking to be on the road & wanna give my current Compaq to my wife. What does your Compaq/HP cost? That sounds like something for me to look into.
wow, that's pricey! look around, esp at the Dell's, you should be able to get comparable specs for much, much less. Read this entire post and many have suggest places (www.techbargains.com is my fav) to get coupons.
Give us the specs. I think if it's just basic Cad work and 3d modeling, there shouldn't be any problem using off the shelf power laptops out there (cpu speed, amount of memory, video memory).
can you recommend for a laptop?
Nicoli - you should have the OS disk, but it'll be marked as a Dell CD (with Windows on it).
it just came with a piece of paper that looks like an os disk that says ill never have to reformat so they didnt ship the disk. i did get some software disks maybe ill have to check that again.
that's odd. I have XP Pro and 2000, both came with disks specifically for each machine (you can only install back onto each respective machine). Who knows, though.
Damn, if Apple actually let's Windows run on their machines their market share would skyrocket! I'd certainly look at them, especially those gorgeous laptops. Too bad we'll have to wait so long.
Still, I won't hold my breath. They've switched manufacturer's before with no change. It seems odd that Jobs would do this, even with the obvious market increase - even using the Pentiums seems odd. Can't imagine Intel doesn't have some kind of deal with MS. We'll see.
Anyone know of links to articles? Yup, far too lazy to search ;-)
Nicoli - I've just gotten an XP media center laptop as well and am
a bit frustrated with the lack of a operating system disk - i.e.
the little disk shaped pc. of paper - what gives!!? - its already
asked me for the os disk when I tried to set up networking ....
alas
Nicoli - I've just gotten an XP media center laptop as well and am
a bit frustrated with the lack of a operating system disk - i.e.
the little disk shaped pc. of paper - what gives!!? - its already
asked me for the os disk when I tried to set up networking ....
alas
thaat is exactly what the guy i spoke to yesterday said. no disk. the os is inside the machine embedded onto a chip.
maybe they want you to buy a new machine when the os gets out of date?
trace:
I'd recommend you check out Slashdot for links and discussions.
However, your interpretation that Apple will now be a hardware maker building boxes that run Windows too seems farfetched. I recommend you check out Steve Jobs' keynote speech on the Apple website to get a better idea of what's going on. Basically, OSX is their baby and that's the market share they're looking to increase.
cyn:
Sorry about the link. I did post another none that should work.
No, I can't verify whether you can upgrade the Vaio. The whole mystery chip thing sounds way off to me. It just sounds like the guy's misunderstood something.
The Clie is a different piece of kit than a PC laptop. AFAIK, people are running Linux on these, but if the purpose is to run Windows it's quite possible you'll need to keep that Sony software to make it functional.
Nicoli:
Sometimes the OS or media discs are optional (at extra cost) when you order from Dell. But don't you want the Media Center services on your machine? Why do you want to reformat? I'd contact Dell support or check their website.
Oh, I'm talking out of my arse here...So did this guy ever get his laptop or what?
Ok, I just quickly looked at the Dell Media Center support pages.
It's pretty obvious that this is some combo of extra hardware and MS OS bits and so yeah, these extra OS bits might be 'embedded'.
Also, come to think of it, Sony usually offers these kind 'media experiences' type tools on their laptops. Maybe that's what the guy can't get drivers for.
henrik, i think what everyone is saying is that there are no disks because the os is 'hardwired'. you don't need disks because its 'already always there'. you know, as in 'being and time'....it is part of the 'being' of the machine...
whether you can install another os over the embedded chip-- like linux or an upgrade to a different windows version-- is also a question. i don't know the answer. like i said, the guy i spoke to said he could upgrade to xp pro by buying a registration key, but not sure of the other systems or later versions of windows. that setup with the embedded chip may be a marketing tool to get you to buy another machine.
henrik, i don't agree with your take on apple. and i wouldn't go solely by a keynote but take a look at apple's bigger strategy. i believe they are using osx to increase their market share of hardware sales. that only makes sense to me, otherwise they would be ok with licensing os x out to pc users and they have explicitly said no to that.
cyn:
Ok, I finally started feeling uneasy about my arse doing the talking and have now done some research.
About the VAIO:
This link and this link both confirm the problem the poster in your link mentioned. However, they also suggest some solutions. As they are dated 2002 I'm not sure if they'd still be applicable. But in any case, it does seem that SOny will go out of their way to 'lock' you into a specific version of Windows.
About the Media Center:
Well, here's a Dutch person who HAS got the Dell MCE2005 cds, 'cept they don't work. But in his description you'll notice that MS informs him he should be able to use any Dell branded install cd or download as long as he has the original keys/license. I know this doesn't help you guys, but I would start hammering Dell for your Dell branded MCE2005 media. If not, then roam around for a download 'somewhere'.
As this thread would seem to indicate, being a pain in the ass should get you the cds eventually.
On Apple:
I'm not sure how anything I've contradicts your view. But I'm not an analyst or in the know. I don't think any of us really 'know' what Apple are up to or what specifically led them to announce the switch. I'm certain that with the BSD code base they can pretty much get OSX running on any kind of chip. Not just Intel. The feeling I got from the keynote (which I offered as an entry point to trace along with the recent Slashdot posts/discussions) was they want to built more fancy consumer style devices a la iPod. Basically become more Sony'esque (whatever the hell that means...). And they want to beat Longhorn.
Intel just wants to sell more chips and they need a company that deliver the can deliver the products that fit their strategy. In any case, it's a good coup for the new Intel CEO Let's wait and see. It'll be fun.
Sorry about the long posts.
And I should read my posts before submitting, but I hope you get the point when I get the sentences mixed up a little.
"At Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference earlier this month, Apple vice president Phil Schiller maintained the Mac OS X would run on Apple hardware only. "We will not allow running Mac OS X on anything other than an Apple Mac," he said.
But Schiller admitted, "That doesn't preclude someone from running [Windows] on a Mac. They probably will." "
After talking to my uber-computer friends, my understanding at this point, to boot from windows you'd have the completely flash your bios, as windows and OSX use different bios languages. So every time you'd want to switch OS, you'd have to reflash the bios. I'm sure someone will come up with a way around this, but it will make it unlikely that the average computer user will be running both Windows and OSX as a dual boot system. Then there are other issues, like with graphics cards. You used to be able to flash the PC bios over to the Mac version, but that is no longer the case on most cards (at least the ones I've looked at flashing over).
However, is it coincidence that Microsoft owns VirtualPC? I'm going to guess not. I bet it won't take them long to develop and release a version that runs extremely smoothly inside Tiger on the x86, with minimal performance hit. This way Apple isn't stepping on Microsoft's toes too much, but allows them to steal people from Windows much more easier.
But like henrik says, none of us "know" what Apple is really up to at this point.
I finally reach to choose one between two.
gimme a final decision
1. alienware MJ-12m 7700
intel pentium4 3.2GHz 1MB cache
Nvidia Quadro FX Go 1400 256m
80G 5400RPM
1G ddram
$3,560
2. Dell Precision Mobile Workstation M70
intel petium M 760 (2Ghz, 2Mb cache)
Nvidia Quadro FX Go 1400 256m
80G 5400RPM
1G ddram
$3,024
almost similar spec..except for major processor. pentium 4 or M
what would you choose if you were?
there's no doubt that the dell is the better value.
could you eleborate 3ifs? I am not disagreeing, just want to hear why you think it a better value. Seems like they are pretty similar hardware wise, save for the pentium differences. Is it in the support? Well, that Pentium M processor has twice the cache which usually goes a long way for performance. I would take the higher cache. I need to read up more on the processors though. Don't pentium 4s run crazy hot? Don't have much experience with the Ms.
DO NOT GET MEDIA EDITION xp it sucks, well it is not as good as it should be.
nicoli and others: you are not crazy your system more than likely did NOT come with os boot disk, as mine did not. Media edition ios not even a microsoft product it is a special dell product microsoft does not support. I reformatted my machine 8 months ago a then brand new machine, but came with a ton of shit from dell, so i just whipped it clean. It took 2 weeks to get the operating system from dell. Then after reinstalling i moved to San francisco and 1 week later my harddrive fried, another 2 weeks later and a new harddrive with media edition it is just ok. Nothing too special but a big pain if something goes wrong, i would just stay away from it, unless you like talking to India.
Dell even with their problems still seem to be the cheapest, and still a descent computer. It is like they expect shit to go wrong with them so they just send you the part relativly pain free. Thats service from india.
Go with the dell
what do people think about IBM thinkpads? how come i don't hear or see many people use these machines for school? at least in my program?
fwiw, a thinkpad is the only non-apple laptop I can imagine owning. (I have a 12in powerbook). solid build quality, great keyboard (never underestimate the importance of these two factors)
I subscribe to the notion that I don't need a Cadillac...err, sorry, we're in a forum of stylish folk - I don't need a BMW. But, I need performance better than a Kia. So, I bought either a Honda, or a Ford: I use a Copaq Presario R3000 w/ a 15" screen & a bunch of features that makes me yawn to describe 'em, but they do a very good job for what I need. That would be AutoCAD, Adobe stuff, Internet, etc, etc. I'm a power user, but I really could care less about the PC techobabble, it deos what I want for a fraction of the cost of a Vaio (the BMW of PCs) or a Mac (also a BMW).
The 'pros': Cost, very good speed, easy to use, no problems (after 8mos), exc. features.
The 'cons': A bit bulky, not as kool to look at as a Vaio, crummy pointer-pad (when you don't have a mouse), power adapter is too dang big, but I think that's common among laptops.
This one cost abt. $1200 & I'm very happy w/ the purchase.
Kia..................Ford............................BMW. Most architects should live w/in their means & shun the Bimmer.
Oops, I meant to say 'Compaq', not 'Copaq'. Did I say that the 'm' key doesn't cooperate on this machine?
MysteryMan, I have a Compaq Evo N1020v. It has a 2.4ghz P4, 512MB Ram, etc. I bought Compaq pretty much because of the price, and because my uni used Compaq computers exclusively.
I have never had a problem in 2 years of daily running, including running Autocad, Viz, Rhino, Photoshop etc. No regrets. Thats also why I am getting a new HP NW8240.
I'd never had a freeze, or a hardware problem.
Hey DIABASE,
I'm looking for a 2nd laptop 'cause I'm looking to be on the road & wanna give my current Compaq to my wife. What does your Compaq/HP cost? That sounds like something for me to look into.
Its here. You can get one from USD$2200, and it will kick some arse. Here is a review.
And anotherthread with some more pictures.
wow, that's pricey! look around, esp at the Dell's, you should be able to get comparable specs for much, much less. Read this entire post and many have suggest places (www.techbargains.com is my fav) to get coupons.
need to revive this discussion:
I'm thinking of getting the TOSHIBA Portégé R200. I'll be doing the occasional 3D stuff, and some AutoCAD. This is fine, Right?
Give us the specs. I think if it's just basic Cad work and 3d modeling, there shouldn't be any problem using off the shelf power laptops out there (cpu speed, amount of memory, video memory).
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.