I grew up in Omaha and within the Saddle Creeker's earlier days before stardom. Their local fame was intrinsicly tied to the little unique and obscure venues where they played and the intimacy of these performances. Retro clothing stores, people's basements, old biker bars, etc - the stuff that eventually leads to fantastic urbanity.
Is what their building an institution to the non-institutional?
i was on the initial RFQ/RFP list - it's a great project that had enormous potential to address many of the paradoxes that crop up when design meets counter-culture (probably not solve them, but...).
unfortunately, there's a lot at stake for Saddle Creek and pressure from the community is driving them towards a conventional solution that will pass the local planning authorities and ensure they don't end up too far in the red.
can't blame them, but something more ambitious seems more appropriate considering the label's success with bringing relatively unknown acts into the limelight...
geno posted this in our discussion on the news posting:
"The whole notion is definitely a critique on current culture and the inseparable link between success in any genre and, essentially, land development.
The area they are building this complex in is 98% black, in a complete state of disrepair and neglect, however, contains a huge array of 50's wearhouses and storage yards. Therefore, artist communities have been rapidly renovating the spaces for co-op facilities, etc - the typical North American city story. Recently the City of Omaha cut an 6 lane 'Welcome to Omaha' boulevard through the area in order to connect downtown to the airport, which has attracted enormous corporate headquarters [Gallup Poll, etc]. Everytime I go home to Omaha to visit, I'm intrigued by the juxtapositions in this area [artists, black ghettos, glassy corporate monuments]. It's interesting to think about how the artist communities in Dallas were affecting by the collapse of Enron. Even the upper brow institutions - opera, symphony - felt it. They lost their patrons. I guess it's an unavoidable fact that artists of any kind are completely dependent on the patronage of corporate society. However, in the case of the Saddle Creek development, I don't understand why their plan has to be an institution. Why couldn't they, instead, strategically choose 4-5 sites in Omaha and use each one as a chance to introduce a smaller scale architecturally challenging intervention - thus contributing to Omahas urban fabric the very condition that built their success. The world doesn't need more institutions - especially in the forming of more engaging city fabric - which, believe me, Omaha is in DESPERATE need of."
i think that this is a development, not an institiution. i do share the same sentiment that building new does not seem intrinsic to this particular culture. the thing that concerns me the most is what impact the saddle creek development will have on the existing area. even though the "fun zone" is one of the most retarded labels for a downtown area i've heard recently and i'm not too jazzed about the given graphic. it sounds like it is an area that could use some work. and it sounds like this could be a positive thing. but i really have no idea, never having been to nebraska.
geno, i'm not really understanding your thoughts on "the institutional." saddle creek has done well for themselves, they've brought up some artists who have garnered moderate amounts of fame in the lives of hipsters and emo kids. i can understand fearing the success of the development if it is not met with open arm from the community of omaha, because they are what saddle creek will have to depend on for supporting it. but i think it is awesome that the company feels confident enough to try such a thing. i'm not familiar with a small record label supporting developments like this anywhere else, and will be interested to see how it turns out.
My opinions about this topic are probably more nostalgic than I would like them to be. I grew up in Omaha and within the Saddle Creek scene and have watched them grow from pubescent teenagers into the famed musicians they are today. I spent my highschool days at a hole in the wall called 'The Cog Factory' watching Slowdown Virginia, Commander Venus, Park Ave, etc. and many other bands that the rest of the world has never heard of. I have been to more solo Conor shows than I can ever begin to count. The success of these bands is of course due to many factors. But from a fan standpoint, it had a lot to do with the bizarreness of Omaha and their juxtaposition to it, the types of places they took over as venues, and how it affected the neighboring areas when they did.
Granted, all those bands have grown way beyond playing at crappy retro clothing store/juice bar venues behind miles thick nag champa incense smoke. They have become sophisticated. And the things they have done for Omaha have absolutely made it a more sophisticated place.
I think it is fabulous that Saddle Creek is merging with land development. They are the perfect people to do so, and the ones most of us want involved in new urban projects. And it is more than appropriate given the amount of impact they have had on Omaha as a physical city, although they might not realize that.
Their development plans remind me of a theme park. I can't help but think it's the antithesis of everything they reared. It's one concentrated block of activity - the opposite of the venues they have supported throughout their careers, but it is also recreating a historic Omaha architecture in a part of the city where none of that exists. The Saddle Creekers aren't historicists even if the way they dress would lead one to believe so.
I keep thinking what an amazing opportunity they are sitting upon to add unique [perhaps authored] architecture to Omaha in some way that actually enhances it's urbanity. Right now Omaha is dominated by large single block developments that create a strange 'business park suburbia, but not'. I don't see how their development is really any different.
Imagine how exciting it would be to have a student design competition for a project like this that has the option of creating one big complex, or breaking it up into sectioned pieces throughout the city.
This story got me thinking who's the most emo of all the starchitects? I'd say Vinoly is pretty damn emo. But largely because he loses so many high profile competitions. He's got a bit of euro-flair that puts him closer to electro-clash than emo. It's kinda funny how the emo boys and architects share the same glasses.
This, in turn, got me thinking of which bands would you pair with which architects? For example:
Jimmy Eat World and Richard Meier
(while both produce decent work, both are now disliked by their former fans for not staying true to their earlier work)
Meatloaf and Steven Holl
(they are both kinda slobs. And they produce work that punishes the senses.)
Bjork and Mori
(both very cute and produce interesting work.)
Cher and Zaha
(divas.)
LCD Soundsystem and Morphosis
(both think they are very cutting edge)
The Killers and SHoP
Both are way too over hyped. And they both have stupid names.
Aerosmith and Gehry
(they both keep on producing the same hit, over and over again... and they are both used in car commercials.)
Now, if you can cheer me up, it would be appreciated. I just found out that the seller of the apartment I put a bid on to buy decided to sell to another offer. Frustrating. It's the second apartment that I lost the bidding war...
How come there are so few emo songs about purchasing real estate?
Yeah but mm's situation is kinda like when you like a girl and she ends up liking someone else and dating them, and there are PLENtY of emo songs about that.
geno- as you said about making this into a student design competition...A friend of mine who graduated with me from the school of the art institute of chicagon this past year did this exact issue for her thesis project. She's from and lives in Omaha now. Her design used one of the old warehouses for the location...just athought. Her's wasn't all game-parkish, just a really cool underground venue...maybe I can get her to post some pictures of it here.
-pamea
interesting. what's she doing there?
i'd love to chat with her....have her email me through archinect.
and i'd like to see her project stuff.
i worked on several similar type projects there before leaving for grad school.
i'm seriously considering buying a couple of old warehouses before they're demolished to make way for hotels, etc. They're cheap and beautiful!
Geno- It was really weird to me that you mentioned the Cog Factory, so weird in fact that after a while of being a lurker you forced me into finally making my first post on this board.
To voice my opinion I think it is more interesting to see how the venue will be ran, rather than just assume it to be horrible since it’s condensed into one small area. I think more venues in Omaha is a good thing, even if it is one part of a large complex or institution. Contrary to popular belief Omaha doesn’t have the greatest music scene. To my knowledge there aren’t a lot of venues in town. Places for DIY shows are extremely limited. If this could turn into one I think it would be awesome, and a huge benefit to the city. I understand it’s probably not going to be completely DIY such as the Cog Factory was, but hopefully it will be run in a somewhat similar fashion since that is sort of their background or whatever.
Who knows, maybe if the Saddle Creek complex starts bringing in the shows/bands existing venues used to hold, it might force the existing ones to lower their price/percentage to hold the show. Wouldn’t this then help further the scene/city with more places to play at a cheaper cost to the bands/promoter? Who would have thought that by being the antithesis of their upbringing they really are more true than ever. Oh the irony! (This was meant as a joke, please don’t think I’m some arrogant jerk)
Also, I am interested by what you meant by the impact Saddle Creek has had on Omaha as a physical city?
Stephanie - you mentioned something about how it is received by the city. I grew up and currently live in Omaha, and from what I’ve heard most people are excited for a new venue and a new theater. I agree in that I think it is a pretty bold move by them even if it wasn't done as well as it could have. Given the history of being denied the opportunity before, I don't blame them for doing what is available now. Atleast they are trying to do something. Also, from what I understand Saddle Creek, despite their popularity, is run by a very small community. It is possible they didn’t have the manpower to run 4 or 5 different sites.
You mentioned that artist communities have been rapidly renovating the surrounding area. The only one I’m familiar with is the Hot Shops. What other places are there?
PSteiner- I’m really interested in seeing your friend’s thesis project. It sort of sucks to know that the idea I was thinking of for my thesis project has been done already. I have no idea if she ever did it, but she could post it on various Omaha message boards ( www.slamomaha.com or www.402hardcore.com/mb ) to see the public’s opinion, or atleast the music/artist community. That would be pretty interesting in my opinion, and also hear their opinion on the Saddle Creek venue.
PS – Geno - you said you’ve seen many other bands that the rest of the world has never heard of. Lets be honest here, Saddle Creek has enough fanboys/hipsters/emo kids that by now they know every last scrap of information on Connor Oberest (Also meant as a joke)
neill - you're hilarious. and right in everything you say!
my reaction to this whole thing is also out of simple exhaustion of omaha always thinking they can't do anything 'bold' but rather a rut of nostalgia.
i haven't seen the new performing arts center [that caused the demise of Frankie Payne's], but it might be the only semi-exciting piece of architecture???
as far as north omaha artist conversions - check out 'gallery 609' - same people used to run 'bar 415' - the little sassy vampire electronica joint where the chic bartenders would pour alcohol on the bar, light it on fire, and dance. their 609 place is dedicated to car art and kinda exclusive as a venue but they have some great bands from time to time. darktown house band used to play there. ohhhh darktown. god, they were awesome.
there's [or at least was about 5 years ago] another artist group around the corner from them somewhat tied to the anarchist group in town. i've only been there for a few shows and it was crazy sketchy but an amazing HUGE space.
as far as the impact Saddle Creek has had on the physical city? their acquisition of newell's bar, as their own, caused a temporary revival of that area. not sure what the state is now. the darkroom gallery at the edge of market opened by jean icontro hosts saddle creek a lot and has turned that space into a cool place.
god, i could go on and on. everyone else will get bored to death.
I grew up in Omaha, but no longer live there. I wanted to post something a friend emailed me in reaction to this thread. He writes for the Omaha Reader and has his ear pressed firmly against the ground.....
um, i'm no saddle creek apologist, but that's quite a lot of shit
talk. and i'd love to see were the "98% black" figure comes from.
people can slam omaha and saddle creek all they want, but there are
some core facts that should not go overlooked or brushed aside:
1. the label is opening a new venue in a town that sorely needs it.
2. they're doing so after getting bitch-slapped by the neighborhood
community they initially approached about the idea
3. the city went out of their way to include -- and yes, capitalize on
-- saddle creek in this north of downtown development plan (and anyone
moderately knowledgeable about the issue understands it is in fact a
development plan that includes, but is by no means limited to, the
slowdown venue)
4. omaha, which apparently is the only city in the world that allows
big box development to go on, will soon see construction on at least
three fairly big mixed-use projects in the mid-to-downtown area
(mutual of omaha's project at 33rd and dodge, the aksarben project,
and north downtown), none of which include anything close to big box
stores or "anchors."
not to get too cranky, but i think more people need to attend an
actual city planning meeting before lobbing real world criticism. do i
think the LOOK of these new developments is particularly inspiring?
no. am i happy their occurring? without question.
i know nothing about omaha. have never been, never plan to go, even though i'm a saddle creek fan, i would never take a specific trip - or even a divergence from a drive - to see this thing they are proposing.
geno - you may be a bit of an activist for the perfect world. even to the point of proposing hairbrained ideas that no middle america municipality would ever adopt - interesting urban fabric? and letting influential groups express themselves through architecture and urban planning? no way.
popeye - sounds like you're ok with something as long as it's better than what is currently out there - average is ok to you. you settle easy and are ready to point that out to the dreamers of the world, geno for example.
but the biggest problem here is what the hell would i stop in omaha to see?
if saddle creek isn't going to provide something interesting, who is?
i don't care about yet another run-of-mill mixed used development in some subpar part of town. even if it's attached to a cool record label. i can see that in hollywood, orlando, and vegas.
i'm sorry that my ranting has come across as a slight on saddle creek and omaha to both you and your friend at The Reader. i never meant it that way. i only wish for bigger and better things everywhere - not just omaha - and this seems like one of those opportunities to break out and do something cool. but that's not going to happen as long as influential people keep saying: "well, it's better than a big box, so hey, lets stop fighting and settle for what might at least be an ok venue". go big, or go home???????
Greenmach-
Not to split hairs, but I was quoting a friend. I don't think my friend is settling for average either......
However, I think Comaha is settling for average, as do many flyover cities. We are atuned the rest of the countries "why the hell would I stop in Omaha" attitude, and it gives us a collective complex. This complex is what leads to apathetic attempts at "downtown revitalization".
But hey, it will give the people of Omaha something to feel good about for awhile. That is what it is about, not attracting a class act like yourself to our humble little cowtown.
hmmm. why not attract class acts like our friend greenmach?
maybe he/she is actually celine dion or someone really important.
but then again, i always tell people "it's a great place to grow up, not a great place to visit. unless you like steak."
maybe saddle creek should merge with omaha steaks for the world largest slaughter house/steak distribution center/emo rock concert hall.
dying cow moooing would sound nice in the background.
drop the inferiority complex, get some balls, and make a god damned statement once and for all. you all have the cash - saddle creek, warren buffet, mutual of omaha, corporate headquarters central. geez people.
and by the way, i'm WAY more class act than celine. i'm rod stewart. he's been around longer and i think he's sexy. i know he'd gladly play at the cutesy-emo-village-theme-park if invited.
yes greenmach, we have been raised to actively defend our inferiority complex and in school we learn skills to make fab excuses for the rampant conservativism around us that makes us settle for shite. i mean, come on, isn't a 'cutesy-emo-village-theme-park' WAY better than Wal-mart? hell yeah!!!!!!! anyone would agree with that. wouldn't they?
stephanie - of course there's tons to do there. my personal favorite is a good drunken escapade at La Buvette - a parisian wine bar downtown. a good cab-sav goes well with copious amounts of red meat.
by the way greenmach, i've been in some funny discussions with you. you're from the east aren't you?
i lived in omaha for 3 years, its a great place, great zoo, some places to see music, some decent architects, a ton of a-e firms, great little old market, nice art scene, an okay museum, great movie theaters- AMC 24 by the mall - and don't forget the main attraction....Nebraska Furniture Mart! both furniture and electronics super stores.............one thing though, most people there have major attitudes for such a laid back town. traffic can suck ass too, but rent is super low......
i have been spying on conversations on archinect for months. this is the first time i have been intrigued to actually post. i even registered in order to do so.
the ranting, the mudslinging, all so tantalizing and quite in the vein of emo music - how appropriate - your 'people' would be proud.
i have three simple questions:
is there at least one piece of controversial architecture or urban structure in Omaha, Nebraska? if yes, tell me what and where and i will stop the next chance i have.
if no, why is that?
and, is there an architecture school there? because i've never heard of one.
Greenmarch-
To me there doesn't need to a "architecturally interesting place." (does that make sense?) I would hope it isn’t their goal. I would much prefer a place similar to that of the cog factory. For those who don't know it was a venue that was ran in Omaha a couple years ago, in some random empty plain boring building. It was ran by people who were more into music and having a good time rather than a company making money or bringing in tourists. They kept it open by accepting many different kinds of bands, and did the work themselves. Some examples of this are: people often had to chip in their own pocket money to pay rent or utilities, run the door for free cause your friend is the one who brought in the touring band, or pay touring bands out of their pocket if they had a guarantee that didn't get covered. Unfortunately it got closed down when they found that they owed a killing in taxes that they never knew about. It was the type of place that the people who went there really cared about. I think a place with the heart and character of the cog factory would be a much greater benefit to the people of Omaha.
In short, I much prefer a place that serves the people of Omaha, rather than a place for hipster tourists to come and see "the place that Saddle Creek built."
yup geno. boston. born, bred and schooled and the nations 'finest'. heh.
and i promise to stop in Omaha, Nebraska at my next convenience. as long as you all promise not to beat me to a bloody pulp, or force feed me beef.
i'll be wearing the t-shirt that says
'sir greenmach - class act, esquire. looking for a ride to slowdown virgina'. i'm only assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that public transit is difficult to find in omaha.
oh before i forget the people in omaha love having sex with animals, i heard at least a half dozen news stories about guys and pigs, guys and girls with great danes, couples with small critters, couples with rabbits and cats....so beware they fuck anything.
what? no hipster tourists?
and omaha's not a mecca?
shit.
i'm out.
and, i have spent the entire afternoon checking on this thread.
damn ocd aroused by a thrilling conversation about omaha, nebraska.
genderbender - there's an architecture school in lincoln. another great town containing the state capital - the largest phallus you're ever seen. referred to as 'penis of the plains.' now THAT'S worth a trip all in itself.
Genderbender-
Lincoln, Nebraska has the highest gays per capita of any city in the U.S.
The neighborhood just south of the "Penis on the Plains" is refered to as the "Fruit Loop" Not my words.
The "Penis" is one of the best examples of Beaux Arts arch in the country. Little known fact: Hitler wanted to take over the U.S., break it into quadrants, and live in the Penis. Not kidding.
I thought you were making it out to be a type of tourist attraction, and I just assume it isn’t supposed to be that. Sorry if I misunderstood you, or came across as a whiner.
I'm not saying it should be another ranch bowl, although I do think it is unfortunate that ranch bowl closed down. I've been to a ton of really good shows there, and as a whole I think it was a good venue. The sound was usually good, and when they allowed floor shows in the Snookers bar area, those were really fun. I'm not commenting on the architecture, just stating that I don't really know of another true music venue in town, and I think there is a need. Of course it would be really neat if Saddle Creek produced an amazing venue. I guess I’m just optimistic about there being something. If any of you know of places to hold hardcore shows in town let me know, so I can pass word on. I’m not trying to be a jerk or a whiner, seriously if people know of places to play I’d like to tell people who want to know.
Tonight my friend told me that he heard the Saddle Creek venue was going to be around the size of Sokol. I have no idea if this is right. Anyone with any proper knowledge of the development want to correct me since all my thoughts are all just speculation, and possibly incorrect information?
Betadinesultures – Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by a-e firms?
Genderbender - I’m really not trying to sound like a jerk or start a debate, but does it have to be controversial to be deemed worthy visiting? Just curious about your opinion. Also, your comment about the hurting ass was very funny to me.
It’s funny in my opinion to see what Omaha/Lincoln consists in this post:
Bestiality
a lack of “ballsâ€
a HUGE penis
Saddle Creek records
desired residence of Hitler
good steak
a high percentage of gays
lack of public transportation
lots of money
“big-box developmentâ€
the underachieving Saddle Creek development
everything betadinesutures previously mentioned
I’ve also been told we have one of the highest STD rates. Don’t forget the College World Series, and the Nebraska football team. (On a game day the stadium has more people than any town in NE other than Omaha or Lincoln) Also, the normally delicious Runza and Valentinos. Atleast I’ve always thought those fast food places were only in this region. Can anyone verify?
On a side note, I'll probably be moving to the area south of the capital building, so if anyone knows of a cheap 4 bedroom house available in august please let me know. --- {{Hmm… is he interested because of the aforementioned title, or because it’s close to downtown and the UNL city campus???}}
Emo Architecture hits Omaha
......and it's not pretty.
This was a news topic posted by 'Stephanie':
http://www.tinymixtapes.com/2005_05_01_archivenews.htm#111716946509207387
I grew up in Omaha and within the Saddle Creeker's earlier days before stardom. Their local fame was intrinsicly tied to the little unique and obscure venues where they played and the intimacy of these performances. Retro clothing stores, people's basements, old biker bars, etc - the stuff that eventually leads to fantastic urbanity.
Is what their building an institution to the non-institutional?
best topic title ever.
interesting question. haight/ashbury culture never built itself a monument, why does saddle creek think emo needs one?
oh my...
i love saddle creek bands... interesting idea for the project... but it's not how i might have imagined it would have looked.
i would have thought that a renovation/transformation project would have been more appropriate for an indie rock venue...
tune in, turn on, and develop mixed-use parcels.
geno -
i was on the initial RFQ/RFP list - it's a great project that had enormous potential to address many of the paradoxes that crop up when design meets counter-culture (probably not solve them, but...).
unfortunately, there's a lot at stake for Saddle Creek and pressure from the community is driving them towards a conventional solution that will pass the local planning authorities and ensure they don't end up too far in the red.
can't blame them, but something more ambitious seems more appropriate considering the label's success with bringing relatively unknown acts into the limelight...
story at pitchfork.
geno posted this in our discussion on the news posting:
"The whole notion is definitely a critique on current culture and the inseparable link between success in any genre and, essentially, land development.
The area they are building this complex in is 98% black, in a complete state of disrepair and neglect, however, contains a huge array of 50's wearhouses and storage yards. Therefore, artist communities have been rapidly renovating the spaces for co-op facilities, etc - the typical North American city story. Recently the City of Omaha cut an 6 lane 'Welcome to Omaha' boulevard through the area in order to connect downtown to the airport, which has attracted enormous corporate headquarters [Gallup Poll, etc]. Everytime I go home to Omaha to visit, I'm intrigued by the juxtapositions in this area [artists, black ghettos, glassy corporate monuments]. It's interesting to think about how the artist communities in Dallas were affecting by the collapse of Enron. Even the upper brow institutions - opera, symphony - felt it. They lost their patrons. I guess it's an unavoidable fact that artists of any kind are completely dependent on the patronage of corporate society. However, in the case of the Saddle Creek development, I don't understand why their plan has to be an institution. Why couldn't they, instead, strategically choose 4-5 sites in Omaha and use each one as a chance to introduce a smaller scale architecturally challenging intervention - thus contributing to Omahas urban fabric the very condition that built their success. The world doesn't need more institutions - especially in the forming of more engaging city fabric - which, believe me, Omaha is in DESPERATE need of."
i think that this is a development, not an institiution. i do share the same sentiment that building new does not seem intrinsic to this particular culture. the thing that concerns me the most is what impact the saddle creek development will have on the existing area. even though the "fun zone" is one of the most retarded labels for a downtown area i've heard recently and i'm not too jazzed about the given graphic. it sounds like it is an area that could use some work. and it sounds like this could be a positive thing. but i really have no idea, never having been to nebraska.
geno, i'm not really understanding your thoughts on "the institutional." saddle creek has done well for themselves, they've brought up some artists who have garnered moderate amounts of fame in the lives of hipsters and emo kids. i can understand fearing the success of the development if it is not met with open arm from the community of omaha, because they are what saddle creek will have to depend on for supporting it. but i think it is awesome that the company feels confident enough to try such a thing. i'm not familiar with a small record label supporting developments like this anywhere else, and will be interested to see how it turns out.
great comments.
My opinions about this topic are probably more nostalgic than I would like them to be. I grew up in Omaha and within the Saddle Creek scene and have watched them grow from pubescent teenagers into the famed musicians they are today. I spent my highschool days at a hole in the wall called 'The Cog Factory' watching Slowdown Virginia, Commander Venus, Park Ave, etc. and many other bands that the rest of the world has never heard of. I have been to more solo Conor shows than I can ever begin to count. The success of these bands is of course due to many factors. But from a fan standpoint, it had a lot to do with the bizarreness of Omaha and their juxtaposition to it, the types of places they took over as venues, and how it affected the neighboring areas when they did.
Granted, all those bands have grown way beyond playing at crappy retro clothing store/juice bar venues behind miles thick nag champa incense smoke. They have become sophisticated. And the things they have done for Omaha have absolutely made it a more sophisticated place.
I think it is fabulous that Saddle Creek is merging with land development. They are the perfect people to do so, and the ones most of us want involved in new urban projects. And it is more than appropriate given the amount of impact they have had on Omaha as a physical city, although they might not realize that.
Their development plans remind me of a theme park. I can't help but think it's the antithesis of everything they reared. It's one concentrated block of activity - the opposite of the venues they have supported throughout their careers, but it is also recreating a historic Omaha architecture in a part of the city where none of that exists. The Saddle Creekers aren't historicists even if the way they dress would lead one to believe so.
I keep thinking what an amazing opportunity they are sitting upon to add unique [perhaps authored] architecture to Omaha in some way that actually enhances it's urbanity. Right now Omaha is dominated by large single block developments that create a strange 'business park suburbia, but not'. I don't see how their development is really any different.
Imagine how exciting it would be to have a student design competition for a project like this that has the option of creating one big complex, or breaking it up into sectioned pieces throughout the city.
holy f*^k!
this is very frightening.
who would've thought it would come to this.
the liberal underground has bought into the most conservative of planning worlds.
i hope this doesn't change how my 'bright eyes' albums sound.
This story got me thinking who's the most emo of all the starchitects? I'd say Vinoly is pretty damn emo. But largely because he loses so many high profile competitions. He's got a bit of euro-flair that puts him closer to electro-clash than emo. It's kinda funny how the emo boys and architects share the same glasses.
This, in turn, got me thinking of which bands would you pair with which architects? For example:
Jimmy Eat World and Richard Meier
(while both produce decent work, both are now disliked by their former fans for not staying true to their earlier work)
Meatloaf and Steven Holl
(they are both kinda slobs. And they produce work that punishes the senses.)
Bjork and Mori
(both very cute and produce interesting work.)
Cher and Zaha
(divas.)
LCD Soundsystem and Morphosis
(both think they are very cutting edge)
The Killers and SHoP
Both are way too over hyped. And they both have stupid names.
Aerosmith and Gehry
(they both keep on producing the same hit, over and over again... and they are both used in car commercials.)
dear mm:
thank you for making my day
truly,
pixelwhore
Dear Pixel,
You're welcome.
Now, if you can cheer me up, it would be appreciated. I just found out that the seller of the apartment I put a bid on to buy decided to sell to another offer. Frustrating. It's the second apartment that I lost the bidding war...
How come there are so few emo songs about purchasing real estate?
- mm
because couch surfing or living off your parents/signifigant other doesn't require purchase of real estate?
Yeah but mm's situation is kinda like when you like a girl and she ends up liking someone else and dating them, and there are PLENtY of emo songs about that.
mm:
see Sunny Day Real Estate.
geno- as you said about making this into a student design competition...A friend of mine who graduated with me from the school of the art institute of chicagon this past year did this exact issue for her thesis project. She's from and lives in Omaha now. Her design used one of the old warehouses for the location...just athought. Her's wasn't all game-parkish, just a really cool underground venue...maybe I can get her to post some pictures of it here.
-pamea
hey psteiner,
interesting. what's she doing there?
i'd love to chat with her....have her email me through archinect.
and i'd like to see her project stuff.
i worked on several similar type projects there before leaving for grad school.
i'm seriously considering buying a couple of old warehouses before they're demolished to make way for hotels, etc. They're cheap and beautiful!
geno
Geno- It was really weird to me that you mentioned the Cog Factory, so weird in fact that after a while of being a lurker you forced me into finally making my first post on this board.
To voice my opinion I think it is more interesting to see how the venue will be ran, rather than just assume it to be horrible since it’s condensed into one small area. I think more venues in Omaha is a good thing, even if it is one part of a large complex or institution. Contrary to popular belief Omaha doesn’t have the greatest music scene. To my knowledge there aren’t a lot of venues in town. Places for DIY shows are extremely limited. If this could turn into one I think it would be awesome, and a huge benefit to the city. I understand it’s probably not going to be completely DIY such as the Cog Factory was, but hopefully it will be run in a somewhat similar fashion since that is sort of their background or whatever.
Who knows, maybe if the Saddle Creek complex starts bringing in the shows/bands existing venues used to hold, it might force the existing ones to lower their price/percentage to hold the show. Wouldn’t this then help further the scene/city with more places to play at a cheaper cost to the bands/promoter? Who would have thought that by being the antithesis of their upbringing they really are more true than ever. Oh the irony! (This was meant as a joke, please don’t think I’m some arrogant jerk)
Also, I am interested by what you meant by the impact Saddle Creek has had on Omaha as a physical city?
Stephanie - you mentioned something about how it is received by the city. I grew up and currently live in Omaha, and from what I’ve heard most people are excited for a new venue and a new theater. I agree in that I think it is a pretty bold move by them even if it wasn't done as well as it could have. Given the history of being denied the opportunity before, I don't blame them for doing what is available now. Atleast they are trying to do something. Also, from what I understand Saddle Creek, despite their popularity, is run by a very small community. It is possible they didn’t have the manpower to run 4 or 5 different sites.
You mentioned that artist communities have been rapidly renovating the surrounding area. The only one I’m familiar with is the Hot Shops. What other places are there?
PSteiner- I’m really interested in seeing your friend’s thesis project. It sort of sucks to know that the idea I was thinking of for my thesis project has been done already. I have no idea if she ever did it, but she could post it on various Omaha message boards ( www.slamomaha.com or www.402hardcore.com/mb ) to see the public’s opinion, or atleast the music/artist community. That would be pretty interesting in my opinion, and also hear their opinion on the Saddle Creek venue.
PS – Geno - you said you’ve seen many other bands that the rest of the world has never heard of. Lets be honest here, Saddle Creek has enough fanboys/hipsters/emo kids that by now they know every last scrap of information on Connor Oberest (Also meant as a joke)
neill - you're hilarious. and right in everything you say!
my reaction to this whole thing is also out of simple exhaustion of omaha always thinking they can't do anything 'bold' but rather a rut of nostalgia.
i haven't seen the new performing arts center [that caused the demise of Frankie Payne's], but it might be the only semi-exciting piece of architecture???
as far as north omaha artist conversions - check out 'gallery 609' - same people used to run 'bar 415' - the little sassy vampire electronica joint where the chic bartenders would pour alcohol on the bar, light it on fire, and dance. their 609 place is dedicated to car art and kinda exclusive as a venue but they have some great bands from time to time. darktown house band used to play there. ohhhh darktown. god, they were awesome.
there's [or at least was about 5 years ago] another artist group around the corner from them somewhat tied to the anarchist group in town. i've only been there for a few shows and it was crazy sketchy but an amazing HUGE space.
as far as the impact Saddle Creek has had on the physical city? their acquisition of newell's bar, as their own, caused a temporary revival of that area. not sure what the state is now. the darkroom gallery at the edge of market opened by jean icontro hosts saddle creek a lot and has turned that space into a cool place.
god, i could go on and on. everyone else will get bored to death.
I grew up in Omaha, but no longer live there. I wanted to post something a friend emailed me in reaction to this thread. He writes for the Omaha Reader and has his ear pressed firmly against the ground.....
um, i'm no saddle creek apologist, but that's quite a lot of shit
talk. and i'd love to see were the "98% black" figure comes from.
people can slam omaha and saddle creek all they want, but there are
some core facts that should not go overlooked or brushed aside:
1. the label is opening a new venue in a town that sorely needs it.
2. they're doing so after getting bitch-slapped by the neighborhood
community they initially approached about the idea
3. the city went out of their way to include -- and yes, capitalize on
-- saddle creek in this north of downtown development plan (and anyone
moderately knowledgeable about the issue understands it is in fact a
development plan that includes, but is by no means limited to, the
slowdown venue)
4. omaha, which apparently is the only city in the world that allows
big box development to go on, will soon see construction on at least
three fairly big mixed-use projects in the mid-to-downtown area
(mutual of omaha's project at 33rd and dodge, the aksarben project,
and north downtown), none of which include anything close to big box
stores or "anchors."
not to get too cranky, but i think more people need to attend an
actual city planning meeting before lobbing real world criticism. do i
think the LOOK of these new developments is particularly inspiring?
no. am i happy their occurring? without question.
i know nothing about omaha. have never been, never plan to go, even though i'm a saddle creek fan, i would never take a specific trip - or even a divergence from a drive - to see this thing they are proposing.
geno - you may be a bit of an activist for the perfect world. even to the point of proposing hairbrained ideas that no middle america municipality would ever adopt - interesting urban fabric? and letting influential groups express themselves through architecture and urban planning? no way.
popeye - sounds like you're ok with something as long as it's better than what is currently out there - average is ok to you. you settle easy and are ready to point that out to the dreamers of the world, geno for example.
but the biggest problem here is what the hell would i stop in omaha to see?
if saddle creek isn't going to provide something interesting, who is?
i don't care about yet another run-of-mill mixed used development in some subpar part of town. even if it's attached to a cool record label. i can see that in hollywood, orlando, and vegas.
hi popeye,
i'm sorry that my ranting has come across as a slight on saddle creek and omaha to both you and your friend at The Reader. i never meant it that way. i only wish for bigger and better things everywhere - not just omaha - and this seems like one of those opportunities to break out and do something cool. but that's not going to happen as long as influential people keep saying: "well, it's better than a big box, so hey, lets stop fighting and settle for what might at least be an ok venue". go big, or go home???????
Greenmach-
Not to split hairs, but I was quoting a friend. I don't think my friend is settling for average either......
However, I think Comaha is settling for average, as do many flyover cities. We are atuned the rest of the countries "why the hell would I stop in Omaha" attitude, and it gives us a collective complex. This complex is what leads to apathetic attempts at "downtown revitalization".
But hey, it will give the people of Omaha something to feel good about for awhile. That is what it is about, not attracting a class act like yourself to our humble little cowtown.
hmmm. why not attract class acts like our friend greenmach?
maybe he/she is actually celine dion or someone really important.
but then again, i always tell people "it's a great place to grow up, not a great place to visit. unless you like steak."
maybe saddle creek should merge with omaha steaks for the world largest slaughter house/steak distribution center/emo rock concert hall.
dying cow moooing would sound nice in the background.
what is the population of omaha?
is all of omaha this pouty?
drop the inferiority complex, get some balls, and make a god damned statement once and for all. you all have the cash - saddle creek, warren buffet, mutual of omaha, corporate headquarters central. geez people.
and by the way, i'm WAY more class act than celine. i'm rod stewart. he's been around longer and i think he's sexy. i know he'd gladly play at the cutesy-emo-village-theme-park if invited.
nevermind...i just checked something that said in 2000 it was 390,000.
there must be stuff to do there, right? i mean, maybe not a reason to stop there, but not much more to do than eat steak???
i can think of better things to do in boise, and we're a town of 208,000!
yes greenmach, we have been raised to actively defend our inferiority complex and in school we learn skills to make fab excuses for the rampant conservativism around us that makes us settle for shite. i mean, come on, isn't a 'cutesy-emo-village-theme-park' WAY better than Wal-mart? hell yeah!!!!!!! anyone would agree with that. wouldn't they?
stephanie - of course there's tons to do there. my personal favorite is a good drunken escapade at La Buvette - a parisian wine bar downtown. a good cab-sav goes well with copious amounts of red meat.
by the way greenmach, i've been in some funny discussions with you. you're from the east aren't you?
i lived in omaha for 3 years, its a great place, great zoo, some places to see music, some decent architects, a ton of a-e firms, great little old market, nice art scene, an okay museum, great movie theaters- AMC 24 by the mall - and don't forget the main attraction....Nebraska Furniture Mart! both furniture and electronics super stores.............one thing though, most people there have major attitudes for such a laid back town. traffic can suck ass too, but rent is super low......
i have been spying on conversations on archinect for months. this is the first time i have been intrigued to actually post. i even registered in order to do so.
the ranting, the mudslinging, all so tantalizing and quite in the vein of emo music - how appropriate - your 'people' would be proud.
i have three simple questions:
is there at least one piece of controversial architecture or urban structure in Omaha, Nebraska? if yes, tell me what and where and i will stop the next chance i have.
if no, why is that?
and, is there an architecture school there? because i've never heard of one.
Greenmarch-
To me there doesn't need to a "architecturally interesting place." (does that make sense?) I would hope it isn’t their goal. I would much prefer a place similar to that of the cog factory. For those who don't know it was a venue that was ran in Omaha a couple years ago, in some random empty plain boring building. It was ran by people who were more into music and having a good time rather than a company making money or bringing in tourists. They kept it open by accepting many different kinds of bands, and did the work themselves. Some examples of this are: people often had to chip in their own pocket money to pay rent or utilities, run the door for free cause your friend is the one who brought in the touring band, or pay touring bands out of their pocket if they had a guarantee that didn't get covered. Unfortunately it got closed down when they found that they owed a killing in taxes that they never knew about. It was the type of place that the people who went there really cared about. I think a place with the heart and character of the cog factory would be a much greater benefit to the people of Omaha.
In short, I much prefer a place that serves the people of Omaha, rather than a place for hipster tourists to come and see "the place that Saddle Creek built."
hipster tourists?
are you projecting omaha to be a mecca?
keep crying in your milk, dear.
it should be a place like the Ranch Bowl right?
there is "some" architecture there, no gehry, eisenman, holl, tsien, ando, or anything but small relevant works....
***sorry , that was a bit mean. i'm a little drunk.
what 40's on the stoop?
yup geno. boston. born, bred and schooled and the nations 'finest'. heh.
and i promise to stop in Omaha, Nebraska at my next convenience. as long as you all promise not to beat me to a bloody pulp, or force feed me beef.
i'll be wearing the t-shirt that says
'sir greenmach - class act, esquire. looking for a ride to slowdown virgina'. i'm only assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that public transit is difficult to find in omaha.
oh before i forget the people in omaha love having sex with animals, i heard at least a half dozen news stories about guys and pigs, guys and girls with great danes, couples with small critters, couples with rabbits and cats....so beware they fuck anything.
what? no hipster tourists?
and omaha's not a mecca?
shit.
i'm out.
and, i have spent the entire afternoon checking on this thread.
damn ocd aroused by a thrilling conversation about omaha, nebraska.
genderbender - there's an architecture school in lincoln. another great town containing the state capital - the largest phallus you're ever seen. referred to as 'penis of the plains.' now THAT'S worth a trip all in itself.
hmmm. perhaps we've made the connection between sex with animals and the state capital. see, architecture has a HUGE impact on culture!
omaha is sounding more and more like idaho.
the other thing i love about this thread is that it has encouraged so many people to come out from the lurker realm.
damn emos.
hmmm. i think i might move to nebraska.
seems like an appropriate move from l.a.
animals, a giant phallus'.
would my gender bending be a problem?
and with that, i'm outta here for the weekend.
very large surf is calling me. can't find that in omaha!
ciao.
i see the capital, but no city.
my ass hurts.
Genderbender-
Lincoln, Nebraska has the highest gays per capita of any city in the U.S.
The neighborhood just south of the "Penis on the Plains" is refered to as the "Fruit Loop" Not my words.
The "Penis" is one of the best examples of Beaux Arts arch in the country. Little known fact: Hitler wanted to take over the U.S., break it into quadrants, and live in the Penis. Not kidding.
i hereby retract my interest in visiting nebraska.
the 'per capita' thing always makes me think 'small population'.
hitler in nebraska. OF COURSE he'd want to live in a penis.
wouldn't you if you had plans to take over the world?
i get it! it's at the center of the country!
a giant penis at the center.
oh my god.
that is best story of phallo-centricity i have ever heard.
screw saddle creek. they've got nothing on that story.
i can't stay away.
maybe george bush should move to the penis.
I thought you were making it out to be a type of tourist attraction, and I just assume it isn’t supposed to be that. Sorry if I misunderstood you, or came across as a whiner.
I'm not saying it should be another ranch bowl, although I do think it is unfortunate that ranch bowl closed down. I've been to a ton of really good shows there, and as a whole I think it was a good venue. The sound was usually good, and when they allowed floor shows in the Snookers bar area, those were really fun. I'm not commenting on the architecture, just stating that I don't really know of another true music venue in town, and I think there is a need. Of course it would be really neat if Saddle Creek produced an amazing venue. I guess I’m just optimistic about there being something. If any of you know of places to hold hardcore shows in town let me know, so I can pass word on. I’m not trying to be a jerk or a whiner, seriously if people know of places to play I’d like to tell people who want to know.
Tonight my friend told me that he heard the Saddle Creek venue was going to be around the size of Sokol. I have no idea if this is right. Anyone with any proper knowledge of the development want to correct me since all my thoughts are all just speculation, and possibly incorrect information?
Betadinesultures – Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by a-e firms?
Genderbender - I’m really not trying to sound like a jerk or start a debate, but does it have to be controversial to be deemed worthy visiting? Just curious about your opinion. Also, your comment about the hurting ass was very funny to me.
It’s funny in my opinion to see what Omaha/Lincoln consists in this post:
Bestiality
a lack of “ballsâ€
a HUGE penis
Saddle Creek records
desired residence of Hitler
good steak
a high percentage of gays
lack of public transportation
lots of money
“big-box developmentâ€
the underachieving Saddle Creek development
everything betadinesutures previously mentioned
I’ve also been told we have one of the highest STD rates. Don’t forget the College World Series, and the Nebraska football team. (On a game day the stadium has more people than any town in NE other than Omaha or Lincoln) Also, the normally delicious Runza and Valentinos. Atleast I’ve always thought those fast food places were only in this region. Can anyone verify?
On a side note, I'll probably be moving to the area south of the capital building, so if anyone knows of a cheap 4 bedroom house available in august please let me know. --- {{Hmm… is he interested because of the aforementioned title, or because it’s close to downtown and the UNL city campus???}}
Clearly the "fruit loop" title is way more important. I love Toucan Sam, but I think you misspelled it popeye. It's supposed to be "Froot Loop."
architecture - engineering firms; leo daly, hdr, dlr, a few others i think.....
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