I'm assuming you aren't working in a traditional arch office if you don't ever get to work on CD's. As for learning how it's done, I tend to think that it's just something you've gotta do.

A good way to really know how a set of CD's truly comes together is take an entire set and redi-check it before it's issued. Checking each and ever bubble and note, making sure everything matches and cross references, etc. Then again, that is something I wouldn't imagine someone with no CD experience would understand the best. Might be worth a shot to find a book or publication on redi-check. Not sure if the process goes by other names but that's what I've always heard it called.

Possibly doing cost estimates of a set would be a way to learn the CD's inside and out, and I imagine there is info about doing that out there.

Hope this helps. One question, do you want to learn to get a job? I think most firms would understand a recent grad wouldn't be familir with assembling CD's. Besides, each firm has their own little style of doing it. Useful skill to have but not necessary to get a job.

Short answer:

-Yes you can teach your self. Why not?
-CD's process and finished product varies from office to office.
-Hint: get your hands on a complete set of drawings meaning: A,E,M,S for a commercial project and for a residencial. Than tweek it as you see fit.

No I am not working at a traditional architecture firm, but it is my first job after graduating. I don't have a lot of experience but I am learning some useful things at work. However, I would like to know how to put together a cd set to get a more useful experience. In hopes of getting a better job eventually. It is a skill that firms are interested in (it seems). After being in school for so long I really want to learn more technical and job realted skills, so I am trying to learn as much as possible from people I work with and in related fields. I had asked someone the other day if a could have a copy of cds so I could pick them apart. Seems like a good way to learn more about them.

you should switch jobs. there is no reason you can't get started on helping w cd's. it is not very complicated - quite base + i am SURE many firms out there be dying to get you on some cds, even if you are only starting as you'll pick it up VERY fast!

I agree... learning how to do good CDs is a black art, and one only gained from lots of good experience. Try and find a design firm who puts emphasis on implementation and solid detailing (rather than big gestures) and you'll loads. I can't imagine trying to pick it up by oneself - I've often thought that you could spend an entire day talking about the philosophy of good dimensioning practice if you really wanted to.

Imagine us - sitting here - telling someone to go get a job doing CD's - anyone else see the Irony?

Sullivan J...what kind of stuff do you do at work?

This book is not bad, and I've heard good things about it from others in this forum too:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0823030024/qid=1116403088/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-5943153-9814347

A Manual of Construction Documentation: An Illustrated Guide to Preparing Construction Drawings
by Glenn E. Wiggins

i worked for a couple of years on CD's and later doing whole projects on my own...but it was not until i did construction estimates that i learned about what we should and shouldn't have.

my suggestion is get a set of CD's and walk around the site with them ... understand why they are there. that will give you the knowledge...the rest is really just stuff different offices want you to have. (easy to copy and paste!)

LEARN CONSTRUCTION... then CD's are natural!

Thanks for the suggestions. zoroaster, I checked out the book you mentioned could be a good start. Kissy_face, I mostly make changes on drawings, update space plans in older buildings, edit, clean up, basically correct incorrect drawings. Sometimes it is something simple, sometimes it involves changing everything in the building shell. I also survey and document the existing building conditions. So I guess that can be helpful when trying to gain a better understanding of building methods and construction, and thus cds. I know it may sound a little strange or ironic to be interested in putting together a good set of cds. It is totally boring, grunt work. The kind out stuff you say you are never going to get stuck doing, especially when you are in school and still under some false impression of what working in a firm is really like (unless working while in school). I am as passionate about designing beautiful thoughtful architecture as I was in school; but I think that good design can be lost in bad details. I want to be a good designer and good technically. Didn't anyone else want to sink their teeth into the more technical realities of architecture (after graduating)?

Yes, it's a good thing to want to be technically adept.
One of my first projects was an addition, a new wing nearly identical to others. Boring and simple, but I basically copied the CD's from the original drawings modifying them as I went and learned a lot this way without getting too frustrated. Maybe you can seek a similar opportunity.

I think you are wise to ask the question but i dont think it's something they teach in school...i mean they dont...and they shouldnt. it's different in every office and i have been in many. it is 80% of what architects do, and it is the meat and bones of what we do (unfortunately) and it is just something you pick up...and have to do. the ones who dont have to do cd's are the lucky ones - like the designers in big firms who get to do concept drawings and models.

every firm has it's own version of construction documents as a phase too and that will vary not only from firm to firm but from project to project and team to team in firms. i see cd's as the "final presentation" of a set of developed design documents (drawings and specifications) that becomes construction documents (drawings and specification) that goes out the door and grows into a bigger cd set as construction goes on...and more cd's are added: change orders, ccds, prs, rfi's, asi's bla bla bla

there are many books you can buy about how to draw architecture for contractors and i have looked at almost all of them but i think they are generally dumb. get your hands on as many sets of drawings as you can and KEEP THEM ALL. i have worked on dozens of projects and now that i am thinking about going out on my own i wish i had kept a set of drawings of every stupid project i ever did. because most of it is regurgetation and stealing from one project to another.

robot's do cd's.

actually (not to be rude) i would un-ask the question. you will pick it up like everyone else.

as a matter of fact, if you want to save yourself years of headaches and getting sucked in by the autocad BLACKHOLE you are better off doing construction for a year if you want to understand how things go together. and go and look at construction sites.

i worked for a highend residential architect doing construction on one of his houses when he ran out of drafting for me to do, and it was imensly helpful. he is also the only architect i have ever worked for who did anything interesting...curved walls, details out of his head. he thought about what he wanted and figured out a way to build it by drawing it. that, to me, is far more helpful.

most architecture is boring. and most interesting architecture has really badly coordinated cd's or very schematic drawings that the contractor doesnt sqwalk about (they are the best).

so maybe your choice is: well organized cd's or interesting architecture.

sully...

you should tell your bosses what you want. in my experience, if you ask for something like that, they'll be happy to try and give you some of that opportunity.

i worked for a couple of years in a little firm that did predominantly residential additions, kitchens, some new custom construction. almost entirely type V, but really good, cleanly detailed stuff. some of it published.

at this place, i was hired basically because i knew vectorworks pretty well. they're a mac office too...anyway, point is, i had never really worked in an architecture firm before, and had never put together anything more complicated than some custom detailing for one-off pieces of furniture and kitchen counters and the like. fortunately the two partners were really involved in the CD process even though i did ALL of the drafting.

i sat between them, and they would look at and review my work, then we'd go over sketches, tricky conditions and what-not, and then i'd go on to the next bit of scope. it was a great time for me because over a couple of years i had the opportunity to put out fully coordinated CD's for jobs ranging from single bathroom remodels to moderately sized commercial tenant improvements. granted i wasn't detailing curtain walls and elevator cores without supervision, but hey...

i don't know if you can teach yourself entirely how to detail a set of CD's, but if you've got access to people who are at least willing to redline (heavily redline) your work and have you go at it again...it'll definitely be worth your time...and theirs if you stick around.

i agree with the suggestion made above that any time you can spend LOOKING AT AND STUDYING other completed sets will be time well spent. i was also fortunate through another designer i know to have access to some completed sets from some pretty well-known architects (think all white buildings...) and they provided much fodder for what is good, and more often what is not good.

i put a lot of pride into the drawing sets i did there...and the G.C.'s working on those jobs could all tell. neat, clean, tidy and highly descriptive. i was the guy who'd draw monograms on the towels hanging from the towel bars in the bathroom elevations.

what they couldn't tell was that i was a chef with no formal architectural training other than what i learned on the job.

now i draw with broader strokes and let the shop drawings pick up what i might have missed...but it's totally different work what i'm doing now. apples and oranges.

anyway, there you go. proof is in the pudding.

i agree with the last post

this is a great book about components and how materials go together and it goes through case study buildings with really conceptual drawings up to detailed drawings:

http://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Architecture-Materials-Processes-Structures/dp/3764371897

it's well worth the money. i went through the same exercise a year or two ago as well and that is the book i ended up using the most.

i would also keep a copy of ching's building construction illustrated around.
or something like this might be useful but i have never really found what i was looking for in this kind of book: http://www.amazon.com/Working-Drawing-Manual-Fred-Stitt/dp/0070615543/ref=sr_1_1/102-4902380-0165722?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179502688&sr=1-1

i guess i am pushing more in the direction of "how materials go together" than how to organize the drawings, but one follows the other

good luck

you guys realize you're giving advice to someone who posted this two years ago.

yeah, but maybe it's going to help others.

like myself, who doesn't know dick about construction documents.

i think there are classes that are taught on this.

do you l.a. archinectors know of where i might take a cd class?

...tumbleweed..., yeah, you definitely have a point. however, where i am now, i am not learning about cds because, well, we don't do cds!

yeah, i should pick my co-worker's brain more. he's an architect and has his own practice aside from what we do here.

thanks! =)

d'oh!

good point though jafidler. i hadn't looked at the date. but hey...you read it.

and apparently others did too.

i stand by my belated advice for poor sully. you know, i wonder where he's at these days?

you think he ever taught himself cd's after all??

maybe he applied to the ivies for another degree, got rejected, tried the second tier schools like Bowdoin and Middlebury in hopes of learning those pesky CD's, failed miserably, moved to Hollywood, stalked Brad Pitt until he relented and said "Sure, sully, tag along with me and Maddux, we're going to Franks office to design a skyscraper."

During the meeting with Frank and co., he was offered a job as a mail-clerk to which he said "F.U. man...I want to learn CD's" at which point Brad said "I like your style. Why don't you come live with me and Angelina. I can't keep her satisfied anyway...if you catch my drift."

And he lived happily ever after.

And we never spoke of him again.

nice. that was worth resurrecting a two year old thread.

but i think sully was brad pitt...

sullys prolly registered by now. way to go sully!!!

ahahahahaha, nice.