An award-winning multidisciplinary design studio that was bashed quite harshly a few months ago is once again advertising an unpaid internship position. They've since learned from their mistake and added this statement to their ad to legitimize their exploitation.
(NOTE: unpaid internship positions at *** are in full compliance with Fact Sheet #71 as promulgated by the Department of Labor)...
Well here's the criteria that must be met in order for this to be "legal"
1. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment;
2. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;
3. The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff;
4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;
5. The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship; and
6. The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.
If all of the factors listed above are met, an employment relationship does not exist under the FLSA, and the Act’s minimum wage and overtime provisions do not apply to the intern. This exclusion from the definition of employment is necessarily quite narrow because the FLSA’s definition of “employ” is very broad. Some of the most commonly discussed factors for “for-profit” private sector internship programs are considered below.
"We don't benefit, and we're the good guys here. We're doing you a favour by babysitting you, and wasting our time".
Hey, I guess they have an ego about how efficient they are. It's no biggie though, being that if other firms have paid internships then this one won't get any. The free market will rectify the problem on its own.
If you look at the criteria for how it's legal to have an "Unpaid" internship, it seems that it's more geared toward a situation where a business owner's friend has a kid that's interested in the same type of work that their parent's friend does.
Then the parent says to their friend, "Hey, my kid is interested in becoming an architect." (For Example) "Would you mind if he came and hung around your office for the summer?"
I think the very act of advertising for someone to work for free completely undercuts the notion that they wouldn't provide any benefit to the company. Whose business is so successful that they can load on encumbrances?
Then in this particular ad, there is specific mention of "Design Talent" and other skills. "Take Ownership" - does that mean the intern is gaining an ownership stake of the firm? And therefore if the firm doesn't make money then the "Owner" doesn't get paid? Is that how they're meant to duck around the fact that they're breaking the law?
As an additional note...
In the profession and in academia, we are trained that in the Architectural Discipline one puts in the extra effort. In School we've stayed awake for three days straight before a final review. At work, we put in the sixty hour weeks. This is part of the "architect's mindset," I would argue.
My question is this... If the architectural profession were to cut all of its participant's work-weeks to say... 45 hours, how many additional people would be employed? How many people are out of work because the owner ditched them, and turned the cubicle next to theirs into a Dickensian-era sweatshop?
"You sir, no longer have a job... and You SIr - will have to pick up the slack. I'm going to lunch."
Advertising for free work again RUX? A Pox Upon Your House!
I was happy to see this thread, I felt the exact same way about the RUX job post. As an instructor at a university that does not allow students to get credit for internships (let alone require it!) and discourages them from taking these unpaid internships, I get so frustrated when I see this in addition to the firms that pretend to be searching for paid, Intern Architects, but are actually looking for free graduate labor. Perhaps Archinect should allow comments on job postings, I would love to see the drop in unpaid postings!!!
If you guys feel so strongly about it, you should all apply. Then be totally lazy, have a pizza party every night, snort when someone shows a plan, and brush it off with "We're not getting paid anyway."
since archinect makes money from advertising, i'm not sure if it is in their interest to ban ads. at least by allowing comments, they will give a voice to the people
Advertising unpaid internships again? That's so 2009
An award-winning multidisciplinary design studio that was bashed quite harshly a few months ago is once again advertising an unpaid internship position. They've since learned from their mistake and added this statement to their ad to legitimize their exploitation.
(NOTE: unpaid internship positions at *** are in full compliance with Fact Sheet #71 as promulgated by the Department of Labor)...
Well here's the criteria that must be met in order for this to be "legal"
1. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment;
2. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;
3. The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff;
4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;
5. The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship; and
6. The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.
If all of the factors listed above are met, an employment relationship does not exist under the FLSA, and the Act’s minimum wage and overtime provisions do not apply to the intern. This exclusion from the definition of employment is necessarily quite narrow because the FLSA’s definition of “employ” is very broad. Some of the most commonly discussed factors for “for-profit” private sector internship programs are considered below.
(http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf) - link to DOL
I have a very hard time believing that Criteria #4 will be satisfied...if there's no benefit then why hire them.
I saw that too. It's hard to argue for architects to be given the proper respect and esteem as professionals when we regularly eat our own.
newguy, I'm sure #4 is their way of saying:
"We don't benefit, and we're the good guys here. We're doing you a favour by babysitting you, and wasting our time".
Hey, I guess they have an ego about how efficient they are. It's no biggie though, being that if other firms have paid internships then this one won't get any. The free market will rectify the problem on its own.
If you look at the criteria for how it's legal to have an "Unpaid" internship, it seems that it's more geared toward a situation where a business owner's friend has a kid that's interested in the same type of work that their parent's friend does.
Then the parent says to their friend, "Hey, my kid is interested in becoming an architect." (For Example) "Would you mind if he came and hung around your office for the summer?"
I think the very act of advertising for someone to work for free completely undercuts the notion that they wouldn't provide any benefit to the company. Whose business is so successful that they can load on encumbrances?
Then in this particular ad, there is specific mention of "Design Talent" and other skills. "Take Ownership" - does that mean the intern is gaining an ownership stake of the firm? And therefore if the firm doesn't make money then the "Owner" doesn't get paid? Is that how they're meant to duck around the fact that they're breaking the law?
As an additional note...
In the profession and in academia, we are trained that in the Architectural Discipline one puts in the extra effort. In School we've stayed awake for three days straight before a final review. At work, we put in the sixty hour weeks. This is part of the "architect's mindset," I would argue.
My question is this... If the architectural profession were to cut all of its participant's work-weeks to say... 45 hours, how many additional people would be employed? How many people are out of work because the owner ditched them, and turned the cubicle next to theirs into a Dickensian-era sweatshop?
"You sir, no longer have a job... and You SIr - will have to pick up the slack. I'm going to lunch."
Advertising for free work again RUX? A Pox Upon Your House!
I was happy to see this thread, I felt the exact same way about the RUX job post. As an instructor at a university that does not allow students to get credit for internships (let alone require it!) and discourages them from taking these unpaid internships, I get so frustrated when I see this in addition to the firms that pretend to be searching for paid, Intern Architects, but are actually looking for free graduate labor. Perhaps Archinect should allow comments on job postings, I would love to see the drop in unpaid postings!!!
they should just pay minimum wage for interns.
I think ARCHINECT mods should ban these unpaid postings if they really want to make a change in this field.
If you guys feel so strongly about it, you should all apply. Then be totally lazy, have a pizza party every night, snort when someone shows a plan, and brush it off with "We're not getting paid anyway."
That would show 'em!
Or just steal all of their office supplies.
I was tempted to make a stink about this job post. Glad someone else took the initiative.
Dani Zoe, that is one brilliant idea...allowing people to comment on job postings
archinect please take note
WTF! seriously, they should be banned from advertising. PERIOD.
since archinect makes money from advertising, i'm not sure if it is in their interest to ban ads. at least by allowing comments, they will give a voice to the people
Accepting unpaid internship kills ARCHITECTURE!
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