i am from suburban detroit and developing an architecture theory on mobility and urban evolution. i'm considering running a historic shuttled tour of detroit to inspire my research. to gage initial feasability i need your feedback. good-bad-ugly all responses,questions, remarks, hecklers welcome.
sincerely
road agent
and? not too much to go on here.
feasibility of what?
- it;s cool your interested in detroit- i am too ( see 2 days in detroit thread) - but as for a shuttle- i just don';t think there will be enough people interested in it. - why not just go there on your own and check it out, snap some pics- go to a show, have a drink and leave?
bossman - thanks for link, very helpful
mr. c - what do you want a business plan? true, who in america cares about detroit. on the other hand i think there's an immediate regional segment just waiting to take a tour, it's called suburbia. suburbanites are all a bunch of devout cynics about detroit, but behind every cynic there's a optimist waiting to be sold, therein lies the key in promoting curiosity and catching interest. winning hearts and minds. it all depends on how it's angled to make it relevant to the current events (crazy sh-t)going down in detroit and michigan, It's the late dusk of an industrial era in michigan and detroit is headed for a long night this time. There are tons of suburbanites counting on the industry that detroit spawned and everyone of them speculates about detroit's fate. i'll have to say there's alot to go on here c.
r. agent- sorry to've come off like that- Am afraid i meant that your post gave little to go on..ie, little indication as to what it was you were asking exactly ,I do think detroit is by all means worth the interest- and wish you the best of luck sparking that interest in other people.
detroit is a great case study for urban growth and decline escpecially considering the automobile has been at the core of american industry and consumerist value for a hundred years. Detroit is at the vortex of a new cycle of national industrial transition. Detroit's growth and decline cycles are perpetuated essentially by a good old boy thread that runs through the "company town,throughout michigan and the rust belt, a rebel fringe of states rights that stretches back to antebellum. since it's invention the automobile has captured an allegory of freedom and individuality in sublime commercialization of the rhetoric of frontier, providence and manifest destiny. America's early western expansion campaigns, pursuant industry and the desire to escape it, and the advent of mass american tourist travel propelled america into an unimaginable prosperity that through the eyes of the world was at once fairytale, legend and hollywood. the 100 years between the civil war and wwII catalyzed America's early founding ideals and virtues into a commercialized embodiment that still accelerates suburban growth.
I'm in (er, near) detroit and would be interested in the tour and hearing more of your thoughts. I have a few of my own. Have you read "Stalking Detroit" by any chance?
You should check with AIAS chapters U of M and Detroit-Mercy. We had our midwest conference their last year, I am from OH and AIAS VP, and they talked alot about detroit's urban design issues and historic buildings. We were able to talk to urban designers/planners from the Detroit area.Unfortunately Detroit has some of the oldest highways in the country, in doing so this took everyone out of Detroit. Also, Detroit has one of the highest rates of people leaving the city in the country. So getting in contact with the AIAS chapters in the area, may be able to link you to the information that you are seeking. Hope this helps.
thanks for responses,
I know there are a couple of tours, they seem either too academic or on the other hand just tours to stroke corporate achivement. a good tour of detroit should honestly capture an essence of detroit, past, present and onto the threshold of it's industrial future. Peter Sable founder of NFL films once said, "tell me a fact and i'll learn, tell me a truth and i'll beleive, but tell me a story and it will live in my heart for ever". there's a story to be told about detroit, a tale that stretches into the very fabric of the american dream and a climactic chapter is unfolding right before michigan's groggy eyes.
Hate to be such a bum, road agent, but I find your romantacism to a bit ridiculous. As ridiculous as offering a tour of Detroit to suburban yuppies is disgusting.
Perhaps instead of wasting your time on a tour to promote the reinvestment of money by people who don't want to be there, aren't there, will never go back, or [worse of all] seek to develop/invest in Detroit to suit their own wants, you should focus on the people who have to stay there whether they like it or not, are there, and won't ever have any opportunity to leave. Find a way to encourage their investment in the city. Find ways to improve their lives. It's THEIR city. Not the suburanites such as yourself. Make the city better for the people who are already there, because, frankly, no one else ideas should mean a damn thing.
Also, the last time I checked, there is no future for American industry, let alone Detroit. It's gone to Mexico, China, India, and elsewhere and it isn't ever coming back. GM and Ford's were just given junk bond status. The American automotive industry is on its knees and what vitality it keeps will not be located in the rust belt where the population is steadily aging and declining.
I'm sure your intentions are admirable, but it's a damn shame to see yet another "grand idea" that caters not to a city itself or its actual inhabitants, but to people who feel sorry for a city and the things they could use it for or [even worse] based on some romanticized ideal the "American Dream" or what it used to/should be.
I grew up on the north-side (near city airport) - I agree with driftwood in some sense... the city would be better served if you actually moved there instead of bringing suburbanites in periodically for a checkup. no offense, but this idea reaks of "white-man's pity" - Detroit is not a desolate wasteland... there are almost a million people living in the city, many of whom are trying to make or have made their neighborhoods a good place to live dispite all the "cynics from the suburbs." the best way you can show interest is to move there... spend some time talking to inhabitants, your view of the city/suburb relatiionship and history will change drastically (maybe you'll learn why Detroiters hate suburbanites so much).
in terms of a broader context pick up the book "the origins of the urban crisis" by thomas Sugrue. You'll get a better understanding of why things are the way they are from this book... I have only leafed through "stalking Detroit;" it seems to speak of the city as a general urban landscape not in a historical context at all... it also seems to leave out the one of the major problems facing the metro area: Racism.
oh- Stalking Detroit is an interesting book anyway- i don't mean to diss it. One of my former Profs (Gia Daskalakis) was involved with the book - she's really into the work of the Smithsons, Eisenmann, and (i think) the situationists. I had a good chat with her about Deleuze and Guattari's "A Thousand Plateaus" once... she's definitely one of my influences, although she tended to be a little difficult to talk to and we didn't always agree.
another interesting book to pick up would be "American Ruins" by Camilo Jose Vergara... he has some pictures of buildings in the city that are definitely good for "urban spelunking."
sorry about my rant earlier... i just really don't like "urban tourism" in any city, no matter in what form... it's like people are trying to create some kind of false history, or perception of a place they aren't really a part of - very postmodern in the negative way.
i'd also recommend reading the forums at http://www.detroityes.com/ - don't post your idea there or else you will get flamed.
are you guys from detroityes.com regulars? it occurs to me that anything that stimulates tourism in detroit is a good thing. You guys draw a pretty harsh line between detroit and the suburbs. mr toasteroven do you personally know "why detroiters hate suburbanites so much" and would you care sharing with the rest of the forum? and mr. driftwood who are the they in "THEIR CITY" and where do you live. thanks guys for your living definitions of the root of Detroit's problem. Now i'm pissed, you provoked the alter-ego of my tour, my other side. You guys know the "other" right?...
Introducing Midnight Express tours of the other side,
"come on white boy getcha' ass across the tracks to the other side of town".
Tour in the comfort and safety of capitalist America's tour de force the H2 Hummer. Suburbia, it's time to meet the other...
toaster oven
do you ever visit any cities and if so what do you do while your there. better stay away from chinatown, mexitown, greektown, etc.town lest someone discovers your a WASP. I got news for you, where ever you are your a part of it.
now be nice or i'll post this as a topic.
"to gage[sic] initial feasability i need your feedback. good-bad-ugly all responses,questions, remarks, hecklers welcome."
Since your last post makes it blatantly obvious that you are not interested in engaging in a critical discussion of your idea, and obviously not able to positively address criticism or points of view which differ from your own, myself and all others should definitely not waste our time any further with this matter.
But I'm going to extend you one more opportunity to engage in a respectful and intelligent manner because I think things like this should be discussed and lessons learned from it.
I will best try to respond to your last post, though you do lose me at the end of the first paragraph.
First of all, I am not a detroityes.com regular. I've never heard of it.
Secondly, your statement, "anything that stimulates tourism in detroit is a good thing," is completely and utterly false. Tourism is NOT what Detroit needs. No person living in Detroit today needs tourism for anything. It does not offer a long-term, "sustainable," economic goal for reinvestment or development in the city. While turning to entertainment and recreation (into which your romantic tour of Detroit would fit) as the sole driver for economic redevelopment in a place like Cleveland, it is merely re-establishing the pattern of single-use, economic development which brought the upper Mid-West to its knees in the first place (this would be the collapse of U.S. industry). What Detroit needs is real invest and real solutions to its problem. Not temporary and insubstantial investments based on your romantic, idealized notions of Detroit was, is, or will become.
Thirdly, I'm not drawing a line between Detroit and the suburbs. There is no line. Today the 'urban condition' of Detroit extends it's fingers from downtown all the way to Flint, Ann Arbor, Lansing, Jackson, Toledo, Windsor, and to lesser degrees, Chicago, Toronto, and others. And vice versa. Where I draw the line, is at your romanticism of it all. "there's a story to be told about detroit, a tale that stretches into the very fabric of the american dream and a climactic chapter is unfolding right before michigan's groggy eyes." Honestly. Give me a break. If such is the case--and I neither agree no disagree with you--then why in Gods name would you sit back like some sadistic voyeur, pimping this story to folks who would rather watch what's going on instead of actively participating in the this transformation process? The idea is revolting.
Fourthly, the "they" in my above statement, are those individuals and groups who are most directly connected to Detroit through proximity--whether it's geographically, socially, economically, intellectually, etc. You have the poor and disparate, artists, professionals, well to do, diverse neighborhoods, businesses, and a huge range of others whose way of life--as rich or poor as can be imagined--is impacted directly by, and has impact upon, their immediate surroundings: Detroit as it exists today, in reality. Not some silly, romanticized ideal. And where I live is none of your business.
Finally, one last comment. Wikipedia describes the use of the term WASP as such: "...ahistoric, simplistic, and trite..." and "...pejorative, intended to drag up the history of racism, nativism, anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism, and attitudes of cultural superiority..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASP
Given the anonymity of the internet and the poor assumptions making such a stereotypical remark can bring, I'm going to ask that you refrain from being so petty and narrow-minded in the future. Especially if you wish this discussion to continue. Thanks.
"Make the city better for the people who are already there, because, frankly, no one else ideas should mean a damn thing."
Your drift is blatantly obvious.
I'm going to extend you one more opportunity to
i told her that i came from detroit city
and i played guitar in a long haired rock n roll band
she asked me why the singer's name was alice
i said listen baby you really wouldnt understand
Ah oooh
He looked a lot like Che Guevara, drove a diesel van
Kept his gun in quiet seclusion, such a humble man
The only survivor of the National People's Gang
Panic in Detroit, I asked for an autograph
He wanted to stay home, I wish someone would phone
Panic in Detroit (oh oh oh aahh, oh oh oh aahh)
suburbia would never swallow a romanticized notion of Detroit. I would rather call the story a parody of the romanticized american dream with a tragic twist. and though i might be the soul driver of my tour idea i do not suggest tourism to be the "sole driver for economic redevelopment" in Detroit. Sadistic Voyuer? Ouch. What's on your mind when think of a tour of Detroit. Lot's of people just want to see the sights, the history, the architecture, what you gonna be peepin' at when you take the tour driftwood?
I dreamed about that girl
Who’s been waiting for so long.
I wanna go home, I wanna go home,
Oh, how I wanna go home!
Home, folks think I’m big in detroit city.
From the letters that I write, they think I’m fine.
But by day, I make the cars,
And by night I make the bars,
If only they could read between the lines!
Now is the time
To call me doctor
This is a serious case
There's not much time
Now call me doctor
They love to watch him operate
It comes and goes
So call me doctor
They need a special technique
It grows and grows
Now call me doctor
Calling doctor, doctor detroit
detroit history tours
if it would please the forum
i am from suburban detroit and developing an architecture theory on mobility and urban evolution. i'm considering running a historic shuttled tour of detroit to inspire my research. to gage initial feasability i need your feedback. good-bad-ugly all responses,questions, remarks, hecklers welcome.
sincerely
road agent
.
and? not too much to go on here.
feasibility of what?
- it;s cool your interested in detroit- i am too ( see 2 days in detroit thread) - but as for a shuttle- i just don';t think there will be enough people interested in it. - why not just go there on your own and check it out, snap some pics- go to a show, have a drink and leave?
umich has a detroit tour they offer every august.
http://www.tcaup.umich.edu/detroittour/index.html
bossman - thanks for link, very helpful
mr. c - what do you want a business plan? true, who in america cares about detroit. on the other hand i think there's an immediate regional segment just waiting to take a tour, it's called suburbia. suburbanites are all a bunch of devout cynics about detroit, but behind every cynic there's a optimist waiting to be sold, therein lies the key in promoting curiosity and catching interest. winning hearts and minds. it all depends on how it's angled to make it relevant to the current events (crazy sh-t)going down in detroit and michigan, It's the late dusk of an industrial era in michigan and detroit is headed for a long night this time. There are tons of suburbanites counting on the industry that detroit spawned and everyone of them speculates about detroit's fate. i'll have to say there's alot to go on here c.
r. agent- sorry to've come off like that- Am afraid i meant that your post gave little to go on..ie, little indication as to what it was you were asking exactly ,I do think detroit is by all means worth the interest- and wish you the best of luck sparking that interest in other people.
thanks mr. c
no, your point was well taken. all response needed to keep a thread alive.
.
detroit is a great case study for urban growth and decline escpecially considering the automobile has been at the core of american industry and consumerist value for a hundred years. Detroit is at the vortex of a new cycle of national industrial transition. Detroit's growth and decline cycles are perpetuated essentially by a good old boy thread that runs through the "company town,throughout michigan and the rust belt, a rebel fringe of states rights that stretches back to antebellum. since it's invention the automobile has captured an allegory of freedom and individuality in sublime commercialization of the rhetoric of frontier, providence and manifest destiny. America's early western expansion campaigns, pursuant industry and the desire to escape it, and the advent of mass american tourist travel propelled america into an unimaginable prosperity that through the eyes of the world was at once fairytale, legend and hollywood. the 100 years between the civil war and wwII catalyzed America's early founding ideals and virtues into a commercialized embodiment that still accelerates suburban growth.
Road Agent-
I'm in (er, near) detroit and would be interested in the tour and hearing more of your thoughts. I have a few of my own. Have you read "Stalking Detroit" by any chance?
You should check with AIAS chapters U of M and Detroit-Mercy. We had our midwest conference their last year, I am from OH and AIAS VP, and they talked alot about detroit's urban design issues and historic buildings. We were able to talk to urban designers/planners from the Detroit area.Unfortunately Detroit has some of the oldest highways in the country, in doing so this took everyone out of Detroit. Also, Detroit has one of the highest rates of people leaving the city in the country. So getting in contact with the AIAS chapters in the area, may be able to link you to the information that you are seeking. Hope this helps.
thanks for responses,
I know there are a couple of tours, they seem either too academic or on the other hand just tours to stroke corporate achivement. a good tour of detroit should honestly capture an essence of detroit, past, present and onto the threshold of it's industrial future. Peter Sable founder of NFL films once said, "tell me a fact and i'll learn, tell me a truth and i'll beleive, but tell me a story and it will live in my heart for ever". there's a story to be told about detroit, a tale that stretches into the very fabric of the american dream and a climactic chapter is unfolding right before michigan's groggy eyes.
Hate to be such a bum, road agent, but I find your romantacism to a bit ridiculous. As ridiculous as offering a tour of Detroit to suburban yuppies is disgusting.
Perhaps instead of wasting your time on a tour to promote the reinvestment of money by people who don't want to be there, aren't there, will never go back, or [worse of all] seek to develop/invest in Detroit to suit their own wants, you should focus on the people who have to stay there whether they like it or not, are there, and won't ever have any opportunity to leave. Find a way to encourage their investment in the city. Find ways to improve their lives. It's THEIR city. Not the suburanites such as yourself. Make the city better for the people who are already there, because, frankly, no one else ideas should mean a damn thing.
Also, the last time I checked, there is no future for American industry, let alone Detroit. It's gone to Mexico, China, India, and elsewhere and it isn't ever coming back. GM and Ford's were just given junk bond status. The American automotive industry is on its knees and what vitality it keeps will not be located in the rust belt where the population is steadily aging and declining.
I'm sure your intentions are admirable, but it's a damn shame to see yet another "grand idea" that caters not to a city itself or its actual inhabitants, but to people who feel sorry for a city and the things they could use it for or [even worse] based on some romanticized ideal the "American Dream" or what it used to/should be.
I grew up on the north-side (near city airport) - I agree with driftwood in some sense... the city would be better served if you actually moved there instead of bringing suburbanites in periodically for a checkup. no offense, but this idea reaks of "white-man's pity" - Detroit is not a desolate wasteland... there are almost a million people living in the city, many of whom are trying to make or have made their neighborhoods a good place to live dispite all the "cynics from the suburbs." the best way you can show interest is to move there... spend some time talking to inhabitants, your view of the city/suburb relatiionship and history will change drastically (maybe you'll learn why Detroiters hate suburbanites so much).
in terms of a broader context pick up the book "the origins of the urban crisis" by thomas Sugrue. You'll get a better understanding of why things are the way they are from this book... I have only leafed through "stalking Detroit;" it seems to speak of the city as a general urban landscape not in a historical context at all... it also seems to leave out the one of the major problems facing the metro area: Racism.
-to
oh- Stalking Detroit is an interesting book anyway- i don't mean to diss it. One of my former Profs (Gia Daskalakis) was involved with the book - she's really into the work of the Smithsons, Eisenmann, and (i think) the situationists. I had a good chat with her about Deleuze and Guattari's "A Thousand Plateaus" once... she's definitely one of my influences, although she tended to be a little difficult to talk to and we didn't always agree.
another interesting book to pick up would be "American Ruins" by Camilo Jose Vergara... he has some pictures of buildings in the city that are definitely good for "urban spelunking."
sorry about my rant earlier... i just really don't like "urban tourism" in any city, no matter in what form... it's like people are trying to create some kind of false history, or perception of a place they aren't really a part of - very postmodern in the negative way.
i'd also recommend reading the forums at http://www.detroityes.com/ - don't post your idea there or else you will get flamed.
-to
are you guys from detroityes.com regulars? it occurs to me that anything that stimulates tourism in detroit is a good thing. You guys draw a pretty harsh line between detroit and the suburbs. mr toasteroven do you personally know "why detroiters hate suburbanites so much" and would you care sharing with the rest of the forum? and mr. driftwood who are the they in "THEIR CITY" and where do you live. thanks guys for your living definitions of the root of Detroit's problem. Now i'm pissed, you provoked the alter-ego of my tour, my other side. You guys know the "other" right?...
Introducing Midnight Express tours of the other side,
"come on white boy getcha' ass across the tracks to the other side of town".
Tour in the comfort and safety of capitalist America's tour de force the H2 Hummer. Suburbia, it's time to meet the other...
toaster oven
do you ever visit any cities and if so what do you do while your there. better stay away from chinatown, mexitown, greektown, etc.town lest someone discovers your a WASP. I got news for you, where ever you are your a part of it.
now be nice or i'll post this as a topic.
"to gage[sic] initial feasability i need your feedback. good-bad-ugly all responses,questions, remarks, hecklers welcome."
Since your last post makes it blatantly obvious that you are not interested in engaging in a critical discussion of your idea, and obviously not able to positively address criticism or points of view which differ from your own, myself and all others should definitely not waste our time any further with this matter.
But I'm going to extend you one more opportunity to engage in a respectful and intelligent manner because I think things like this should be discussed and lessons learned from it.
So...
I will best try to respond to your last post, though you do lose me at the end of the first paragraph.
First of all, I am not a detroityes.com regular. I've never heard of it.
Secondly, your statement, "anything that stimulates tourism in detroit is a good thing," is completely and utterly false. Tourism is NOT what Detroit needs. No person living in Detroit today needs tourism for anything. It does not offer a long-term, "sustainable," economic goal for reinvestment or development in the city. While turning to entertainment and recreation (into which your romantic tour of Detroit would fit) as the sole driver for economic redevelopment in a place like Cleveland, it is merely re-establishing the pattern of single-use, economic development which brought the upper Mid-West to its knees in the first place (this would be the collapse of U.S. industry). What Detroit needs is real invest and real solutions to its problem. Not temporary and insubstantial investments based on your romantic, idealized notions of Detroit was, is, or will become.
Thirdly, I'm not drawing a line between Detroit and the suburbs. There is no line. Today the 'urban condition' of Detroit extends it's fingers from downtown all the way to Flint, Ann Arbor, Lansing, Jackson, Toledo, Windsor, and to lesser degrees, Chicago, Toronto, and others. And vice versa. Where I draw the line, is at your romanticism of it all. "there's a story to be told about detroit, a tale that stretches into the very fabric of the american dream and a climactic chapter is unfolding right before michigan's groggy eyes." Honestly. Give me a break. If such is the case--and I neither agree no disagree with you--then why in Gods name would you sit back like some sadistic voyeur, pimping this story to folks who would rather watch what's going on instead of actively participating in the this transformation process? The idea is revolting.
Fourthly, the "they" in my above statement, are those individuals and groups who are most directly connected to Detroit through proximity--whether it's geographically, socially, economically, intellectually, etc. You have the poor and disparate, artists, professionals, well to do, diverse neighborhoods, businesses, and a huge range of others whose way of life--as rich or poor as can be imagined--is impacted directly by, and has impact upon, their immediate surroundings: Detroit as it exists today, in reality. Not some silly, romanticized ideal. And where I live is none of your business.
Finally, one last comment. Wikipedia describes the use of the term WASP as such: "...ahistoric, simplistic, and trite..." and "...pejorative, intended to drag up the history of racism, nativism, anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism, and attitudes of cultural superiority..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASP
Given the anonymity of the internet and the poor assumptions making such a stereotypical remark can bring, I'm going to ask that you refrain from being so petty and narrow-minded in the future. Especially if you wish this discussion to continue. Thanks.
Your own words driftwood...
"Make the city better for the people who are already there, because, frankly, no one else ideas should mean a damn thing."
Your drift is blatantly obvious.
I'm going to extend you one more opportunity to
LIGHTEN UP PROFESSOR!
i told her that i came from detroit city
and i played guitar in a long haired rock n roll band
she asked me why the singer's name was alice
i said listen baby you really wouldnt understand
Ah oooh
He looked a lot like Che Guevara, drove a diesel van
Kept his gun in quiet seclusion, such a humble man
The only survivor of the National People's Gang
Panic in Detroit, I asked for an autograph
He wanted to stay home, I wish someone would phone
Panic in Detroit (oh oh oh aahh, oh oh oh aahh)
drift -we are definitely having a seventies moment
And it's beautiful!
I wonder why all the 'best' music about Detroit came out of the 70's?
cuz thats when the motor city madman was in his prime. its a free for all.
Oh yeah! Good ol' Coleman Young...
God Bless the Renaissance Center!
Oh yeah! Good ol' Coleman Young...
God Bless the Renaissance Center!
ahhh i was talkin bout ted nugent
Are you kidding me? You speak as if Ted Nugent isn't still in his prime!!
suburbia would never swallow a romanticized notion of Detroit. I would rather call the story a parody of the romanticized american dream with a tragic twist. and though i might be the soul driver of my tour idea i do not suggest tourism to be the "sole driver for economic redevelopment" in Detroit. Sadistic Voyuer? Ouch. What's on your mind when think of a tour of Detroit. Lot's of people just want to see the sights, the history, the architecture, what you gonna be peepin' at when you take the tour driftwood?
i feel uptight on a saturday night
9 oclock the radios the only light
i hear my song it pulls me thru
it comes on strong tells me what i got to do
i got to-
get up everybodys gonna move their feet
get down everybodys gonna leave their seat
you gotta lose yer mind
in detroit rock citay!!!
proximity to ann arbor is the best thing detroit has to offer, suckas
I dreamed about that girl
Who’s been waiting for so long.
I wanna go home, I wanna go home,
Oh, how I wanna go home!
Home, folks think I’m big in detroit city.
From the letters that I write, they think I’m fine.
But by day, I make the cars,
And by night I make the bars,
If only they could read between the lines!
Now is the time
To call me doctor
This is a serious case
There's not much time
Now call me doctor
They love to watch him operate
It comes and goes
So call me doctor
They need a special technique
It grows and grows
Now call me doctor
Calling doctor, doctor detroit
To be succesfull in detroit,
Make sure you put Pistons and Red Wings Logos all over your shuttle.
Make sure you talk about Pistons and Red Wings while in the historic shuttle.
And finally, its better to leave detroit the way it is, just a beautiful reminder of how bad civilization can go in the most civilized country.
Peace...
"The most civilized country"?
:D
pistons and redwings logos
yeh, I'm working up some sponsorship,
like...
... motorcity madman riding shotgun
for the opening tour superbowl week.
check out preservation wayne and detroit synergy. both offer tours of the city for reasonable prices.
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