how come we architects are so goddam brilliant but so utterly impotent in the shaping of the world around us? why do we find ourselves constantly complaining about the state of things? clients and contractors have come to consider us elitist, expensive snobs that are only good at making eye candy. why do we wait for clients to come to us? why isn't every single last one of us a developer as well as a designer? why do we let non-design-educated people build our homes and the homes of our friends and families??
when i get out of school, i'm doing my part to change all this. what are you guys gonna do/doing right now? do you care/not care? feel ineffectual?
you can build a time machine and go back to the mid 18th century. then burn down the Ecole des Ponts et Chaussees. use your knowledge of 21st century architecture's societal role and tenacious spirit (and said time machine) to preclude all future engineering institutions.
sorry for the satire, i go bed
(ps yes i did check my history books for that reference, what a geeky ass)
Mar 8, 05 1:22 am ·
·
true - we're way too smart to earn as little compensation for our work as we do. we just have this artist/martyr complex drilled into our heads in school that it's less noble to turn a profit or sleep. plus most architects don't have training beyond art/architecture and have no concept of the economic approach that you'd need to develop your own projects.
i'm gunning for the designer/developer route. the first step is getting out from my damn debt by avoiding the idp for 2-3 years. options: 1)coast guard (pays more out of HS than an architecture intern gets paid with 2 degrees, plus tuition payback & full benefits) 2)work for federal government (hud) for tuition payback 3)sell real estate to make connections and money in a related field (plus, how many potential clients would be wowed by your status as a 'formally trained architect')
then, intern and get licensed, or just get going on small development projects to get the ball rolling without licensure, design as i like and find a firm to keep on retainer to operate as an architect of record for non-residential projects. i can't see myself not getting licensed though.
maybe this is a pipe dream. but i am convinced that the idp right out of school for 30K a year is a great way to ensure that you don't build anything good for 20 years and don't make decent money for an even longer time.
I just graduated with a B.A. in Art History and Economics last spring. Right now I've got a Watson fellowship that's letting me spend a year travelling around the world by myself studying architecture in extreme climates. When I get back to the States in late July I'm going to work with either a builder or a real estate developer to round out my education bit. Then I plan to hit up family members for cash and get going with small development projects. From there I'd like to get bigger, start an office with a couple of inspiring partners and go from there. Once things are stable I'd like to get an M.Arch if I can, but maybe not.
From having interned at two different successful architecture firms (one financially and the other critically), I don't think that even the best case scenario of a traditional architectural career appeals to me. It's simply too limitting. Plus, as StabmasterArson points out, the getting there sucks.
The idea of the architect as lone visionary starving artist is bullshit. It's a romantic myth. It only stays alive because architects play it up to seduce clients. It does nothing to improve the landscape. Why should we settle for limitted power and limitted compensation only to satisfy our dellusions?
I just graduated with a B.A. in Art History and Economics last spring. Right now I've got a Watson fellowship that's letting me spend a year travelling around the world by myself studying architecture in extreme climates. When I get back to the States in late July I'm going to work with either a builder or a real estate developer to round out my education bit. Then I plan to hit up family members for cash and get going with small development projects. From there I'd like to get bigger, start an office with a couple of inspiring partners and go from there. Once things are stable I'd like to get an M.Arch if I can, but maybe not.
From having interned at two different successful architecture firms (one financially and the other critically), I don't think that even the best case scenario of a traditional architectural career appeals to me. It's simply too limitting. Plus, as StabmasterArson points out, the getting there sucks.
The idea of the architect as lone visionary starving artist is bullshit. It's a romantic myth. It only stays alive because architects play it up to seduce clients. It does nothing to improve the landscape. Why should we settle for limitted power and limitted compensation only to satisfy our dellusions?
architecture has been behind since...well- forever. Last in technology. Last in self-promotion. Last in realizing that sex sells everything. Hence, we are last in all that you have listed above.
So it's enitrely up to this younger, savvier generation of Architects to combine the opportunites that this age brings with architecture and take our profession back. Problem is the some of the old fogeys don't want to leave, faking hand cramps to not have to work autocad-so they crap on us to hold us down.
Down with the old fogeys!
Mar 8, 05 10:31 am ·
·
kyll - i agree, and it frustrates the hell out of me that the education system is still entirely in the 'we did it in my generation, and so will you' mentality. no one seems to ever look at the profession and say, 'well, this is broken because we did this wrong, and maybe we can teach the next generation to do it right.'
i blame the education of architects for the profession's problems. the entire process disassociates proportional reward for the amount of work put in. think about it - you work your ass off for weeks, and then ramp it up before a review, sacrificing every non-architectural aspect of your life, and what do you get as a reward? criticism. and being done. that's it. and if you don't stay up all night, even if your product is good, you get wailed on for the fact that it could be better if you did stay up all night. you're basically taught to shoot for impossible goals at any cost and to be happy about not reaching them. that attitude isn't going to cut it when you're running a firm. a prime element of economics is knowing when the cost of something equals the benefit, and stopping there. we're taught to never stop. no marginal cost is too high, and no marginal benefit is too low. that's ridiculous.
Mar 8, 05 12:37 pm ·
·
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how come...
how come we architects are so goddam brilliant but so utterly impotent in the shaping of the world around us? why do we find ourselves constantly complaining about the state of things? clients and contractors have come to consider us elitist, expensive snobs that are only good at making eye candy. why do we wait for clients to come to us? why isn't every single last one of us a developer as well as a designer? why do we let non-design-educated people build our homes and the homes of our friends and families??
when i get out of school, i'm doing my part to change all this. what are you guys gonna do/doing right now? do you care/not care? feel ineffectual?
its all about discounted cash flow
sssshhhhh. i'm watching this show.
you can build a time machine and go back to the mid 18th century. then burn down the Ecole des Ponts et Chaussees. use your knowledge of 21st century architecture's societal role and tenacious spirit (and said time machine) to preclude all future engineering institutions.
sorry for the satire, i go bed
(ps yes i did check my history books for that reference, what a geeky ass)
true - we're way too smart to earn as little compensation for our work as we do. we just have this artist/martyr complex drilled into our heads in school that it's less noble to turn a profit or sleep. plus most architects don't have training beyond art/architecture and have no concept of the economic approach that you'd need to develop your own projects.
i'm gunning for the designer/developer route. the first step is getting out from my damn debt by avoiding the idp for 2-3 years. options: 1)coast guard (pays more out of HS than an architecture intern gets paid with 2 degrees, plus tuition payback & full benefits) 2)work for federal government (hud) for tuition payback 3)sell real estate to make connections and money in a related field (plus, how many potential clients would be wowed by your status as a 'formally trained architect')
then, intern and get licensed, or just get going on small development projects to get the ball rolling without licensure, design as i like and find a firm to keep on retainer to operate as an architect of record for non-residential projects. i can't see myself not getting licensed though.
maybe this is a pipe dream. but i am convinced that the idp right out of school for 30K a year is a great way to ensure that you don't build anything good for 20 years and don't make decent money for an even longer time.
I just graduated with a B.A. in Art History and Economics last spring. Right now I've got a Watson fellowship that's letting me spend a year travelling around the world by myself studying architecture in extreme climates. When I get back to the States in late July I'm going to work with either a builder or a real estate developer to round out my education bit. Then I plan to hit up family members for cash and get going with small development projects. From there I'd like to get bigger, start an office with a couple of inspiring partners and go from there. Once things are stable I'd like to get an M.Arch if I can, but maybe not.
From having interned at two different successful architecture firms (one financially and the other critically), I don't think that even the best case scenario of a traditional architectural career appeals to me. It's simply too limitting. Plus, as StabmasterArson points out, the getting there sucks.
The idea of the architect as lone visionary starving artist is bullshit. It's a romantic myth. It only stays alive because architects play it up to seduce clients. It does nothing to improve the landscape. Why should we settle for limitted power and limitted compensation only to satisfy our dellusions?
I just graduated with a B.A. in Art History and Economics last spring. Right now I've got a Watson fellowship that's letting me spend a year travelling around the world by myself studying architecture in extreme climates. When I get back to the States in late July I'm going to work with either a builder or a real estate developer to round out my education bit. Then I plan to hit up family members for cash and get going with small development projects. From there I'd like to get bigger, start an office with a couple of inspiring partners and go from there. Once things are stable I'd like to get an M.Arch if I can, but maybe not.
From having interned at two different successful architecture firms (one financially and the other critically), I don't think that even the best case scenario of a traditional architectural career appeals to me. It's simply too limitting. Plus, as StabmasterArson points out, the getting there sucks.
The idea of the architect as lone visionary starving artist is bullshit. It's a romantic myth. It only stays alive because architects play it up to seduce clients. It does nothing to improve the landscape. Why should we settle for limitted power and limitted compensation only to satisfy our dellusions?
architecture has been behind since...well- forever. Last in technology. Last in self-promotion. Last in realizing that sex sells everything. Hence, we are last in all that you have listed above.
So it's enitrely up to this younger, savvier generation of Architects to combine the opportunites that this age brings with architecture and take our profession back. Problem is the some of the old fogeys don't want to leave, faking hand cramps to not have to work autocad-so they crap on us to hold us down.
Down with the old fogeys!
kyll - i agree, and it frustrates the hell out of me that the education system is still entirely in the 'we did it in my generation, and so will you' mentality. no one seems to ever look at the profession and say, 'well, this is broken because we did this wrong, and maybe we can teach the next generation to do it right.'
i blame the education of architects for the profession's problems. the entire process disassociates proportional reward for the amount of work put in. think about it - you work your ass off for weeks, and then ramp it up before a review, sacrificing every non-architectural aspect of your life, and what do you get as a reward? criticism. and being done. that's it. and if you don't stay up all night, even if your product is good, you get wailed on for the fact that it could be better if you did stay up all night. you're basically taught to shoot for impossible goals at any cost and to be happy about not reaching them. that attitude isn't going to cut it when you're running a firm. a prime element of economics is knowing when the cost of something equals the benefit, and stopping there. we're taught to never stop. no marginal cost is too high, and no marginal benefit is too low. that's ridiculous.
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