The place in question would also have a physical
Therapy area. The cold plunge tubs it seems are a type of wellness amenity along with saunas and red light rooms. I’m thinking this is a B occupant as it most closely relates to an ambulatory care facility as opposed to say a gymnasium with A-3 occupancy.
In my state building code, an INDOOR swimming pool (without spectator) may be classified as A-3 use. Outdoor swimming pool may be classified as an A-4. If this is part of a commercial facility (for example) versus a residential home, this can be classified as group B per provisions of 303.1.1 and/or 301.1.2. However, specifics relating to swimming pools would be specifically outlined in section 3109 (or other sections as applicable as it depends on your jurisdiction). Depending on your state, it may be governed in part under the International Swimming and Spa Code.
When it comes to swimming pools in SFRs, it can be simply IRC (ORSC in Oregon) or be weirdly classified with the occupancy of the residence or it might be classified as group U (under the misc. aspect) especially when the work contemplated is substantially from the residential code versus the IBC (OSSC in Oregon). As I double checked, residential swimming pools and such are governed by International Swimming Pool and Spa Code (or whatever is specifically indicated in the IRC/ORSC).
Saunas and red light rooms maybe classified as part of the same occupancy it is directly associated with or the primary occupancy. As for Sauna's and such, this is a bit more complicated.
In your case, you should consult your local building official because it will be that building official that is going to interpreting the code and what code applies. In which case, it would be important to clearly convey the intent of overall use. The B.O. will look at size of such space per the code and things like that to see if it falls under A-3, A-4, B, or whatever occupancy. If it is a residential swimming pool, sauna, etc. then it would be treated somewhat on a different track than the regular IBC code track, usually. Especially if its new construction or relatively recent era existing residence where there isn't already some sort of mixed-use occupancy matter that moves it out of prescriptive path of IRC into IBC code. So check on that. What does the B.O. tell you?
In a residential home site, an outdoor spa itself would be governed by the International Swimming and Spa Code but the covered structure would be an accessory structure that may be classified as a group U if detached. If attached, it might be treated like a covered patio under roof of house or something along that lines where some elements must meet R-3 (IRC) such as roof and wall framing and such and may be treated similar to porch cover, deck, patio and such with a spa. Most likely, it might be classified along those lines. Indoor (fully enclosed) spa room, the spa is basically a big bath tub, so in a sense, the room would be a BATHroom. This is where it comes to having a conversation with the building official and being candid, forthright, and not trying to be deceptive in any way. Some residential clients have some idea in their head that the B.O. are bad guys and must never talk to them and must deceive them to get around requirements and shit... yeah... the b.s. that exists.
If I'm the client I definitely definitely don't want it classified as an ambulatory care facility. Not that I think that's the right architectural choice either.
Oct 3, 24 7:58 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
We do plenty of very high-end fitness/wellness/woo clubs and we don't treat these types of facilities differently than the rest of the club.
This these are free standing plunge tubs (not fixed)
The space in question is a tenant fit out, in a strip mall. The tubs would be in the open area not a separate room. Then there are saunas and red light
Rooms.
I’m leaning toward the primary occupancy being B,
To your point Richard Blakins, the general area where the plunge tubs is less than than 750sf and is seen as A-3 ( pending B.O.) then it can be grouped into B with the rest of the space.
I guess the larger question is what is the primary occupancy of the space. It’s 2300sf 500sf plunge tub area, the rest is saunas, red light rooms, massage chair area, stretching/mobility area, with a small physical there room, (inpatient area 150sf), and locker rooms.
It’s really not a “gym” or exercise facility, more like a general wellness facility…
Does primary occupancy sound like A-3 or B?
Or yes, ask the building official what it is and that’s what it is!
Oct 3, 24 10:14 am ·
·
OddArchitect
As an architect it is your job to figure this out and make your case to the building department.
I personally would think this is an A-3. If you have physical therapists or some other medical staff on hand you can make the argument that it's a MOB and thus a B occupancy.
Either way your occupancy load is going to very high.
I agree. Make your argument (professionally and respectfully) but ultimately, the B.O. has to decide which it is. I'm with making the argument but the B.O. is the "judge" whose going to decide. He or she may have to consult whoever may be above them. In Oregon, a local building official may consult the Chief Building Official of the State of Oregon who is in charge of the Building Code Division and may be where it gets settled. You make your case, not all that unlike a lawyer making their case in a legal case. If this is an EXISTING building, you might even be under IEBC provisions. (International Existing Building Code). I am not clear as to your state and jurisdiction if IEBC is adopted and enforced. There you may have that to address things. You have spaces that are undergoing change of occupancy but you may be able to make some change of occupancy without triggering everything. So you may have certain spaces still under their existing classification. So that's a good question. I agree with N.S. to make your case but sooner or later, you will have to see where the B.O. lands on this.
Oh got it, we are still on 2015ibc business is 100
Oct 3, 24 11:29 am ·
·
OddArchitect
Ah! Sorry about that! I should of specified I'm using the IBC 2018.
Oct 3, 24 11:48 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
we're in 2024 tho...
Oct 3, 24 11:49 am ·
·
OddArchitect
That's Canadian time though.
Our county will be adopting the 2024 in Jan '25. Right now we're on the '18. State projects use the '21. No one is adopting the IECC 2024 though. They're all staying with the '21.
Would a “cold plunge” spa be a type a or b occupancy?
The place in question would also have a physical
Therapy area. The cold plunge tubs it seems are a type of wellness amenity along with saunas and red light rooms. I’m thinking this is a B occupant as it most closely relates to an ambulatory care facility as opposed to say a gymnasium with A-3 occupancy.
Thoughts?
In my state building code, an INDOOR swimming pool (without spectator) may be classified as A-3 use. Outdoor swimming pool may be classified as an A-4. If this is part of a commercial facility (for example) versus a residential home, this can be classified as group B per provisions of 303.1.1 and/or 301.1.2. However, specifics relating to swimming pools would be specifically outlined in section 3109 (or other sections as applicable as it depends on your jurisdiction). Depending on your state, it may be governed in part under the International Swimming and Spa Code.
When it comes to swimming pools in SFRs, it can be simply IRC (ORSC in Oregon) or be weirdly classified with the occupancy of the residence or it might be classified as group U (under the misc. aspect) especially when the work contemplated is substantially from the residential code versus the IBC (OSSC in Oregon). As I double checked, residential swimming pools and such are governed by International Swimming Pool and Spa Code (or whatever is specifically indicated in the IRC/ORSC).
Saunas and red light rooms maybe classified as part of the same occupancy it is directly associated with or the primary occupancy. As for Sauna's and such, this is a bit more complicated.
In your case, you should consult your local building official because it will be that building official that is going to interpreting the code and what code applies. In which case, it would be important to clearly convey the intent of overall use. The B.O. will look at size of such space per the code and things like that to see if it falls under A-3, A-4, B, or whatever occupancy. If it is a residential swimming pool, sauna, etc. then it would be treated somewhat on a different track than the regular IBC code track, usually. Especially if its new construction or relatively recent era existing residence where there isn't already some sort of mixed-use occupancy matter that moves it out of prescriptive path of IRC into IBC code. So check on that. What does the B.O. tell you?
In a residential home site, an outdoor spa itself would be governed by the International Swimming and Spa Code but the covered structure would be an accessory structure that may be classified as a group U if detached. If attached, it might be treated like a covered patio under roof of house or something along that lines where some elements must meet R-3 (IRC) such as roof and wall framing and such and may be treated similar to porch cover, deck, patio and such with a spa. Most likely, it might be classified along those lines. Indoor (fully enclosed) spa room, the spa is basically a big bath tub, so in a sense, the room would be a BATHroom. This is where it comes to having a conversation with the building official and being candid, forthright, and not trying to be deceptive in any way. Some residential clients have some idea in their head that the B.O. are bad guys and must never talk to them and must deceive them to get around requirements and shit... yeah... the b.s. that exists.
If I'm the client I definitely definitely don't want it classified as an ambulatory care facility. Not that I think that's the right architectural choice either.
We do plenty of very high-end fitness/wellness/woo clubs and we don't treat these types of facilities differently than the rest of the club.
This these are free standing plunge tubs (not fixed)
The space in question is a tenant fit out, in a strip mall. The tubs would be in the open area not a separate room. Then there are saunas and red light
Rooms.
I’m leaning toward the primary occupancy being B,
To your point Richard Blakins, the general area where the plunge tubs is less than than 750sf and is seen as A-3 ( pending B.O.) then it can be grouped into B with the rest of the space.
I guess the larger question is what is the primary occupancy of the space. It’s 2300sf 500sf plunge tub area, the rest is saunas, red light rooms, massage chair area, stretching/mobility area, with a small physical there room, (inpatient area 150sf), and locker rooms.
It’s really not a “gym” or exercise facility, more like a general wellness facility…
Does primary occupancy sound like A-3 or B?
Or yes, ask the building official what it is and that’s what it is!
As an architect it is your job to figure this out and make your case to the building department.
I personally would think this is an A-3. If you have physical therapists or some other medical staff on hand you can make the argument that it's a MOB and thus a B occupancy.
Either way your occupancy load is going to very high.
Cold Plunge: 1:15
Red Light Rooms 1:15
Message Areas / Physical Therapy 1:150 gross
Stretching / Mobility and Locker Rooms 1:50 gross
I agree. Make your argument (professionally and respectfully) but ultimately, the B.O. has to decide which it is. I'm with making the argument but the B.O. is the "judge" whose going to decide. He or she may have to consult whoever may be above them. In Oregon, a local building official may consult the Chief Building Official of the State of Oregon who is in charge of the Building Code Division and may be where it gets settled. You make your case, not all that unlike a lawyer making their case in a legal case. If this is an EXISTING building, you might even be under IEBC provisions. (International Existing Building Code). I am not clear as to your state and jurisdiction if IEBC is adopted and enforced. There you may have that to address things. You have spaces that are undergoing change of occupancy but you may be able to make some change of occupancy without triggering everything. So you may have certain spaces still under their existing classification. So that's a good question. I agree with N.S. to make your case but sooner or later, you will have to see where the B.O. lands on this.
Assembly without fixed seats. MOB uses the office occupancy which is 1:150. See table 1004.5 in the IBC.
Ah! Sorry about that! I should of specified I'm using the IBC 2018.
we're in 2024 tho...
That's Canadian time though.
Our county will be adopting the 2024 in Jan '25. Right now we're on the '18. State projects use the '21. No one is adopting the IECC 2024 though. They're all staying with the '21.
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