1) Reputation 

2) Curriculum (Sci-Arc and Yale are at the different end of the spectrum). Do you want to lean toward Theory? Design? Practical? or Multi-disciplinary like MIT

3) Money

4) Location

How are you judging reputation? Is there a particular ranking you trust most or is it vibes/people you've talked to? Asking because I've been finding it hard to say for sure how schools compare reputation wise

What do you guys think about Pratt Vs SCI-Arc Vs GSAPP

They're completely different programs. Do you want to live in Brooklyn or Upper Manhattan or Los Angels? Do you have a car? Do you want to go to a university or an art school or a stand-along school of architecture? Are your parents paying for you to attend graduate school? If the answer is 'no,' which program gave you the most money?

In fact, I know that some Sci-Arch students graduated and pursued careers in Animation, stage design, fashion, and many more (I think it's flexible for those who don't really want to pursue architecture but want to explore the adjacent fields). Pratt and GSAPP stand at the same level in terms of curriculum, but GSAPP offers a bigger alumni network and might open more doors for you. Still consider the amount of scholarship that is given to you.

I am an international applicant March II. I have no prior experience of being in these places except for what I have heared from my teachers and mentors who have worked here. Pratt gave some good amount. I seriously can not afford GSAPP. In my family we have saved for my Grad education but GSAPP is a lot. But Apart from money TBH I want an educational presepective on three. Lilke Which is more design and practical ? In my own presepective I am a lot inclined to SCI Arc curriculam.

DM me, I'm happy to share more insight. I'm also an international student and have been in the US for two years studying and working, I can help guide you :)

For me:

do you guys think Rice or Princeton has better reputation overall ?

Princeton, of course, the legendary home of Albert Einstein

im truly debating Sci Arch vs. Pratt. Thoughts on curriculum??

^ one essential criteria for me is outside- beyond the classroom learning, fieldwork, community engagement, sustainability trips etc. I see that Pratt is very good with this (even by it’s instagram/ website) but as for Sci Arch, it’s not that clear. It seems like it’s primarily technology graphic design and art making based? Am I missing something here- thoughts?

they just want people top or at least near top of your class with a unique interest or academic background + leadership potential; if not, you can probably ask a reference from a pritzker laureate or donate another building. follow my tips then you will have a good chance in getting in

it really seems like GSD cares about your thinking more than just focusing on design skills or fancy accomplishments. for example, they had four 500 word essays that question different aspects of your architectural thinking rather than the typical "why study architecture here" and "tell us about yourself" that most places do. it probably helps to have your portfolio, essays, and LORs put forward a holistic vision of you that has a particular outlook on architecture and shows potential for thinking creatively within the discipline, rather than just crafting the most visually impressive portfolio or resume. it also seems like they value diverse academic backgrounds. just my 2 cents.

I have very good LORs from a few professors/mentors and my current boss. Most of my architectural work deals with Baudrillard's media theory. My interest is about subverting common representation ie doing away with pretty pictures of an idealized architecture for something more raw. It's a lot of ignorant style graffiti mixed with misused technologies to make something appear interesting. It's a New New Brutalism outlook.

@ar81 has a good point. I think the GSD values the "holistic" student. I was admitted to the GSD of the M.Arch 2 program and had a terrible GPA (under 3.2), no academic awards or honors, but I worked hard to make sure that my portfolio, my essays, my LOR, were all able to speak to my potential as as student at a high level. Sure publications might help but don't get too hung up about it being a make or break factor. Focus on your potential as a student above all and make sure your application materials reflect that.

I don't believe it's a make or break, yet my current boss thinks it's very important. My GPA was 3.49 mostly excelling in philosophy courses and theory like I mentioned. I have a very unique production method deeply influenced by post-war sculpture while writing and producing short films about the work. I just find my experience of giving up on architecture because of my professors dismissal of my ideas to now producing interesting work is an important part of my "holistic" student arc.

Only do the 3-year program if you actually want to become a licensed architect and practice architecture as a primary career .. if you do not intend to become an architect, then there is no reason to do the three year professional degree, though an arch program is so rigorous it will prepare you for anything!!!… generally speaking, Only go into grad school if it perfectly aligns with your career goals. That’s what I tell younger folks all the time. If you plan to eventually pivot or broaden your horizons in terms of research or an additional degree/PhD, then it makes sense to go to GSAPP.. that said, computational design is becoming an increasingly more important part of this field and was heavily integrated into my program, and if you feel you can master Grasshopper and other parametric, design tools, getting a masters degree in CD or a dual degree in CD + architecture, if you intend to be licensed, it is a stellar idea… But in most cases that would take you 4 years… if you’re not worried about getting licensed, then just focus on the computational design degree and you still can work at some of the top firms that deploy parametric design as part of their design strategy, without ever becoming an “architect”. And you’ll be wildly well paid. You can also take , computational design, or DesComp (as we called it at UNCC) , into gaming or film , aerospace etc and earn a FORTUNE!!

Oh I see, thank you sooooo much for your detailed suggestions. so it seems like if I don't want to get licensed MSCDP is much better for me. but seems like one-year program is short? since I am not well-trained in design. Actually, CD+ architecture is really tempting, that's why I am interested in UPenn and SCI-Arc, also umich can dual-degree in CD. Besides that, do you know what exactly the application of CD in other fields like film, gaming? I have no idea about it.

You bring up a great point, one that I meant to mention. If you do not have an extensive design background, then you may want to do the dual degree, or do an M.Arch program that has a high-level of computational design in embedded in the curriculum… Which, more and more, a lot of programs Are starting to do. Is the CD program at GSAPP 3 semesters? If it is just two, then it is more likely better suited for someone who has either a B.ARCH or a preprofessional architectural/design degree… But a three semester program might be just enough to get you caught up on design theory at least enough to work professionally what will matter more in the field is your understanding of the computational design tools at hand, and whether or not you can program and write script. If you can do that functionally, while applying it to theoretical design ideas, then that’s great, but most of what you would be doing initially at a firm, would be helping to realize the conceptual designs of lead architects so you would learn the design theory in practice eventually anyway.. depending on your age, like if you’re still in your early to mid- 20s, then finding a four-year dual degree program would probably be really good for you. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) has one of the dopest CD programs, which they tie in pedagogically with other types of research, like acoustic design, lighting design, and of course, straight up Architecture. If you haven’t applied there, you should consider it. -- With regard to the application of CD in other fields, for example, a friend of mine is a Computational designer in Animation, his expertise is fine details like Water and Hair. He did the Water in the new Avatar movie and in Moana. He worked on Avatar for almost 10 years... there are tons of jobs like that. Using computational design to World-Build for CGI affects in film, TV, animation and gaming. Sci-Arc is well renowned for this skill. But they lean so heavily into it, that a lot of their students don't go into capital-A "Architecture

In summary, doing a dual degree would prepare you for anything. You would have TONS of options upon graduation!

thank you so much, I really appreciate it. I haven't thought about these stuff! I will take it into consideration carefully!!!

CMU which course ?

mscd

I see you everywhere I go haha

that's right, you too lol

Anything from MIT @qingh

not yet, might rej I think

how about you @dt_cs

CMU - in @qingh

What’s your status ?

@dt_cs congrats! no results yet :( where are you preparing to go?

Penn State or CMU

I see, maybe we can meet in Pennsylvania lol

what are you leaning towards :0 similar background and results as me

I'm in a pickle. I know the curriculum at GSAPP and Princeton varies. Although I do have a community in nyc -- I'm in the process of making a Pros and Cons list. How about you?

If money was equal maybe gsapp cuz I want to live in a city but as it stands Princeton haha

congrats! I received too!

Just received my acceptance via email!
Cheers and congrats to you as well!

just heard back last night. are you thinking of going?

nope

anyone more people been accepted recently feel like most of their acceptances went out early march

Right here!

Is everyone here March 1 ? Anyone M arch II ? \

Strongly considering it! Just want to hear back about the financial package.

havent heard back yet.... did you guys get email or check portal :(

.

currently my first choice atm fancy! hope to see you there!!!

@Stressed Architect email to check portal

Anyone get funding / scholarship offers from UCLA yet?

@xjy.xjy likewise! It's a fabulous program and LA is a really great design city. @lynchain yes, I received the funding letter at the same time as the offer letter.

should I be worried haven' t heard anything from them at all :(

Still crickets, can only make assumptions until 4/1 when all their results will definitely be posted. The website states that the MArch program doesn’t conduct interviews, but I’d need someone to chime in on that. No news isn’t bad, but not auspicious and historically acceptances have been sporadic. Can only wait, but wish you luck!

still wait

Pratt

G.Tech: phenomenal program. Atlanta is an amazing exploding metropolitan city and amazing culture, great food etc. G.tech grads have gone on to do some important work in recent years (the 9/11 memorial for example and the Belt Line in Atlanta, which was a graduate research thesis project that came to life). Also, Atlanta is much more affordable than Brooklyn. I try not to give too much weight to rankings, but “QS Top Universities” has G.Tech’s architecture program ranked as the 5th best in the USA, and top 20 in the world, out of over 200 global programs. Pratt isn’t even ranked, I could go on and on! Just food for thought.

It's not "ranked" because it's not a research university. It doesn't fit the methodology of what QS is ranking, same with RISD and Sci Arc. It has nothing to do with an actual "ranking" of schools for the merit of their architecture programs

Zahir, great and valid point potentially. But as i mentioned, rankings are overrated, they don’t mean that much in reality :) the rest of my assessment still stands, in my humble opinion of course. Pratt is an excellent program, and no one needs my opinion to validate that, but the question at hand is Pratt vs G.Tech, and my choice would be georgia tech, with or without the financial implication. Great Univeristy, great school of architecture and an amazing city! — one thing, you guys should weigh in mind when you are looking at these amazing art schools (sci arc , Pratt, CCS, RISD etc) versus full-fledged universities, is the network, resources, and overall amenities. Like, will you get a decent gym, do they have graduate student housing, what are the libraries like? What courses can you take outside of or tangential to architecture if you want? etc.

RISD is super unique in terms of its proximity to, and symbiotic relationship with, Brown.

I agree with you, it really just depends on what you're looking for. My undergrad was at a UC, big public research university and I feel like I got a lot out of that environment, now I'm looking for something smaller and more focused on just architecture and design. I'm choosing between UCLA, Sci Arc, and Pratt at the moment and I'm leaning towards the latter two for this reason. All the schools I applied to were small and private, besides UCB and UCLA which offered great financial leverage being a California native.

Congrats on that. You’ve got some great but tough choices. Since you’ve been in Cali for a while then it really makes sense for a change of scene, and Brooklyn would be an awesome change. LA and NYC both offer tremendous value as research grounds for architectural inquisition… Pratt definitely does have a bit more of a collegiate culture perhaps than sci-arch, in fact, they do have a full-fledged rec center that’s being redone by Gensler (i think?). — I had the pleasure of meeting some of the staff and faculty at sci-arch right before Covid hit, they were awesome. They even helped me improve my portfolio which I am confident is what helped me get into all 9 programs I’d applied to. Obviously, sci-arch is at the cutting edge of design innovation (architecture or otherwise). — I did my undergraduate studies at UCLA and had the time of my life! Tough decisions.

Obvious consider cost but Georgia Tech hands down. It's a really dynamic and rigorous program and, as Joey noted, it's in Atlanta which is a fabulous city! It has some of the best food in the country, which should be reason enough, and I would imagine that the resources at GT, especially pertaining to research, are far greater.

Thank you all for your input. I agree with everyones points and coming from a non architecture background these new inputs help

You got this!! congrats on both programs, that's a pretty dope choice, actually.

Bo

Both are excellent schools in terms of education, faculty and reputation. Between these two, it comes down to your personal preference. I would be more inclined towards GSD as I understand that the GSD program is more diverse and takes a more expansive approach, which creates a more conducive environment for students to work in.

With programs this solid you may just want to draw straws ;) GSD seems to lean heavily into the theory and philosophy of architecture, while the research is relevant and applicable to how cities and spaces can respond to social and climatic issues. Yale SoA seems to lean more heavily into science and technology, addressing current issues from a different perspective. I'm saying this as a someone who occasionally reads publications from both. You have a near impossible decision. Ask both programs if they'll put you in touch with a current M.arch student. I have a good friend who's currently in the M.Arch at GSD I'll see if he'd be willing chime in. He told me he's been spying this thread too haha

Thank you both! I very much appreciate it. I will attend both open houses to understand better what it would be like in person, but I hadn't considered asking if there were students to converse with. I realize it is a bit of a wild ask for insight. I wasn't expecting it, so now I have been in a bit of a stir when making a decision. At this point, it also comes down to cost, where I want to live, whether I would have a thesis semester and how I feel within both school environments. I know YSOA is a bit of a smaller group, and I hear only good things, minus the school's location (confined to the campus in New Haven, not much else to do). I also only hear good things about GSD, but the cost would be more, impacting my decision.

Still waiting for SM.ACT

I guess, no one here really applied to MIT...

Did you have an interview? If not, there might be nothing to wait for, they seem to interview folks they want in mid-February. (I applied, did not have an interview and haven't heard anything. A friend got both interviewed and informally accepted in mid-Feb - although by DUSP not Smarchs)

I was a waitlist of smarchs program and i got email at march 21th. Even I didnt have interview. Also i know some folks who got in didnt have interview. So interview is quite case by case thing.

I interviewed in late February

still waiting for result?

Like a lamb to the slaughter

that sounds horrible. so basically, if I haven't heard anything by now, it's definitely a no then

Haha we are no sheeple! I bet they'll tell us tomorrow before spring break, it would be cruel otherwise

did anyone apply for smarchs comp or is everyone smarchs ad

I saw 3 smarchs admits on gradcafe

ooof this is a tough one! Two PHENOMENAL programs!! Taubman College dedicates itself to super high level fabrication and technology research, also proximity to an ever-evolving Detroit with their urban design research. I guess it comes down to snow vs no snow.. cool college town in the Midwest vs really great metropolitan city in the South.. Is one option more cost affective than the other for you? Both are fantastic options. Given these two, I'd likely lean Taubman - graduate student work there has always been really, really impressive. Love that you see as many radical physical models as digital models and drawings. Physical making and manufacturing seems to be an important aspect of Taubman's pedagogical approach. Are you able to visit both before April 15?

Thank you for your explanation. My program at Taubman is Master of Architecture (2years) and at Georgia Tech it is Master of Science in Architecture (1year). Unfortunately, I cannot visit, I am an international student.

In terms of cost, it is almost the same as the fund that Michigan gave me.

I was considering Syracuse as well, I'm not sure if you're out of state like me, but even with the aid offer it's still nearly 3 times more expensive than any of the other programs I got into. I would also include aid into any of your other decisions

Yeah, I'm currently living in Chicago but I'm not sure if moving would be a good idea but IIT is so expensive too! It's hard but Thank you!!

Syracuse is a private school right? UIUC and Syracuse both have strong reputations for Architecture... Are the two-year offerings M.arch Professional degrees with advanced standing? - if so, take a two-year option, which leaves you with IIT or UIUC.. if you save money by going to UIUC (and for only two years) it feels like a no-brainer.

I had trouble finding any information on Syracuse's graduate architecture program. Their undergrad is very prestigious, but I couldn't find any information that said the same about graduate level study. Regardless, I do think to the average person its associated well with architecture which may work to your benefit.

Thank you guys!!

Ill be there!

idk! its like stressing me out. theres no gaurenteed graduate housing. theres an application process to get it and the housing is usually divided into single graduate housing and family housing (for married students and students with kids).

Hey ! Is there a whatsapp group or any other sort of social groups to connect with everyone ?

No not yet also waiting

Me and 2 other ppl ik got them on the 13th

I haven't heard anything from UCLA, assuming it is a rejection. In the past they sent all their rejections last minute before the April 15th deadline

Thank you!

Don’t overthink it @soda, just go! GSAPP will open a world of possibilities. If funding isn’t a major issue, just go. Manhattan is crazy Wild expensive but you’ll figure
it out! Do you have other options?

Thanks! I've admitted to Umich (2yrs) with no funding. I'm still waiting for MIT but guess Gsapp gave me a half-ride so it is the best option for me now..

See my comments below... Do your due diligence as outlined below, then pack your shit and go to Princeton. You already know the answer ;)

Same. I received full tuition from Columbia and Princeton + fellowship. It's really hard to tell. I think it just depends on which student/faculty work you like more, and how will it benefit you once you graduate.

@lee did you go to GSAPP open house?

yes, and I just went to princeton's

LA or New York? that's the question

Can someone provide some insights into the job market now in LA and NYC for architecture?? I'm also considering LA vs NYC, and NYC is (i think) more expensive, but I don't know if it will pay off :/

@mmk5885 to your question, on top of the location, i think the two schools have very different styles.. maybe you should take that factor into your consideration.

Thank you for this! It's seriously the best thing I've seen on this forum. Deeply appreciated!!!

@Joey, hi! I am waiting for UCLA’s funding package, and have a half ride from USC, but due to financials I won’t be going to neither if I don’t get at least 75% or full funding. Do you have any tips on how you secured full ride offers at all the schools you’ve applied to? Do you think it’s ok to keep negotiating when they’ve already increased a little bit but it’s still not enough?

Wow, thank you Joey! Lots of good stuff to think about here, I really appreciate it. I have open houses/a UCLA faculty meeting next week, and I think you offered a really great framework for the kinds of questions I should be thinking about. Thank you so much!

@2005bmw325i I got a full-ride offer from UCLA and a half-ride from Pratt. I emailed Pratt and basically said "Thank you for admission, this program is really great I think it would a good fit for me. X school offered me X amount of money, can you match that?" It was easier because I had a generous funding offer from one. As a backup for UCLA, you could maybe try to differ and move to California for a year to establish residency. I know people who did that for undergrad but not sure if that would be an option for you, just something to think about

wow, congratulations on your offers! did pratt end up matching your ucla offer? i don’t think i can use my half ride offer as leverage to get full funding :-(

@2005, @mmk took the words out of my mouth. If you are an American citizen you can become a California resident after one year of WORK (ie paying state taxes and or registering a car in the state). You could game the system. Move there, get a job and work for one full year (like July to July), then apply for State residency if UCLA will allow you to defer. Or You can pay the out of state tuition for the first year, work part time for ONE FULL YEAR while in school (summer to summer) and apply for residency and get in-state fees in your second and third year and onward. This is what I did, even though I was on a full ride, they asked me to apply for State residency so they could split my Fellowship with another student in my second year, which I was totally okay with! Also, MMK's suggestion about how to approach the email is accurate. You can see if UCLA would be able to come up to 50%. Just bear in mind, UCLA is a state public school so they won't have near the same funding to give away as USC would.-- Just try, take a humble respectful approach in your email

ohh i’ll look into it and also try to contact ucla’s admissions, thanks Joey and MMK!

Who rejected you this round? I suggest a two pronged approach: 1) Improvement to your application and portfolio. 2) You need to find and add some less-selective "safety" schools into the mix next time.  It seems to me like Tulane will admit somebody if they make a good impression in the workshop program. 

Lizzie I am so sorry to hear this. You should check out the Los Angeles Institute of Architecture and Design. (or a similar program in your city). They have a one year "graduate prep program" for people without portfolios who eventually want to apply for grad programs. If you start this year you'll already have a portfolio by end of fall. Also try to take on a creative hoppy like fine art or photography. Take art classes at a junior college.. Go ahead and do the design workshops THEN do a full year of prep if you can.

Hey there, do not lose hope ! Its their loss not yours ! Anyone will always be amzing and creative regardless acceptances. You can always dm me ! I can teach you programs, some cool ways to make graphics pop out. I would suggest to make a portfolio and cohesive that covers a lot of your skills in different mediums and it connects with your essays and LORs. I think your application as a whole should show your motivation and deep routed interests for architecture. I am sure you will make it in !

Thank you for your responses! @reallynotmyname I did myself a disservice, I only applied to 3 competitive schools: MIT, Rice, and Columbia because I almost didn’t apply this year and only had energy to do applications for my top 3 choices. Next year, I plan to apply to at least 10 schools for extra insurance. @joeythegiant Those graduate prep programs seem promising. I am out of Texas, and I seen in other comment threads that you are also originally from Texas. Do you know any graduate prep programs in Texas by any chance? @talhazulqarnain I would appreciate any feedback I can get, so if you would like…I can send you my portfolio through dm. I think my portfolio this year was interesting, but I can definitely see some things that could have been improved.

If you are in Texas, take a hard look at University of Houston for the discovery program: https://www.uh.edu/architecture/special-programs/summer-discovery/

And consider going there for grad school.   I know some UH grads that have done really well.  Hard work and networking on your part can overcome the school not being an Ivy.  In-state tuition also makes it pretty compelling.

Really cool to hear someone mentioning the Gerald D Hines College of Architecture at UH. SOLID program! one of the most "hired-from" programs in the nation. Also really well funded and their faculty are really active in ACTUAL practice doing not just academic research but creating REAL dope buildings.... also Lizzie, there are still programs with open enrollment so it's not too late for you for this Fall. There are a bunch of programs with rolling admissions (USC, I think UH and my program UNCC to name a few) @talhazulqarnain is down to help with your Porty, I'm down to help you with your written materials. I used to be a reader for UCLA undergrad applicant scholarships. I think I Could help you craft the right narratives. 

I asked chat GTP to give me a list of 20 M.Arch programs with rolling admissions Here's what it gave me: University of Michigan - Taubman College of Architecture and Urban Planning (Ann Arbor, MI) University of Oregon - School of Architecture and Environment (Eugene, OR) University of Cincinnati - College of Design, Architecture, Art, and Planning (Cincinnati, OH) University of Kansas - School of Architecture and Design (Lawrence, KS) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute - School of Architecture (Troy, NY) Montana State University - School of Architecture (Bozeman, MT) University of North Carolina at Charlotte - College of Arts + Architecture (Charlotte, NC) University of Oklahoma - Christopher C. Gibbs College of Architecture (Norman, OK) New Jersey Institute of Technology - College of Architecture and Design (Newark, NJ) University of Nevada, Las Vegas - School of Architecture (Las Vegas, NV University of Texas at Austin - School of Architecture (Austin, TX) University of Minnesota - College of Design (Minneapolis, MN) University of Colorado Denver - College of Architecture and Planning (Denver, CO) Washington State University - School of Design and Construction (Pullman, WA) Syracuse University - School of Architecture (Syracuse, NY) University of Arizona - College of Architecture, Planning & Landscape Architecture (Tucson, AZ) Florida International University - College of Communication, Architecture + The Arts (Miami, FL) Arizona State University - The Design School (Tempe, AZ) Ball State University - College of Architecture and Planning (Muncie, IN) Kent State University - College of Architecture and Environmental Design (Kent, OH). Point is, if you beef up your portfolio and craft compelling application essays between now and this summer there is no reason you shouldn't apply for a program this Fall. Why put your life on hold if you dont have to.

Sure go ahead DM me, Ill be happy to help.

Also one thing I will like to share with everyone here, I am not sure what exactly is the criteria for checking portfolio or applications. I am not going to name this one person, they are currently enrolled in Harvard GSD 2023- Their portfolio is available online since that persons shared to show others their accepted GSD portfolo. What broke me was 2 of their shared Images are "Plagiarized " I understand inspiration is something, But this is copied work. I have an addiction to illustrations and creating visuals and I can tell this one is photoshoped as their own work. That too of an architect whos work is published. So this made me really question the Criteria and attentiveness of the people looking through portfolios ? Maybe its luck as well ?? One has to be insanly lucky to walk by like that lol !

Amazing catch. Also really scary. That person cheated their way in. Not fair

I heard from three Gensler people who went to Columbia that the school will view your portfolios on a big TV screen and sort it out quickly to different pools of accepted, rejected, or consideration. Then, a more qualified admission committee will examine your resume, personal essay, and letter of rec. The chances of getting caught are slim since those schools receive 700-1200 applications yearly.

I’m pretty sure these programs are completely open door policy, they are created for people with no architecture experience so you can start building up your porty

I submitted my application, then the next day I was accepted. I think it gets harder to get in as the slots get filled.

hey lizzie! is this program online or in person?

I don't know much about the m.arch program specifically, but that's a great school! Unless you got some other great aid offers, $20k is slim compared to what most people have to take out for an m.arch. If its your top choice, I would not let the $20k be a factor in deciding against it at all and also think New York would be an incredible city to take on graduate study.

You also have to consider probably another $40K per year for the cost of living (housing, transportation, food, utilities, arch school supplies and books) plus a little bit more upfront for a decent gaming level computer with a really good graphics card for an architecture program. (probably will cost you around $3K). SB24 is correct, $20K per year out of pocket toward the tuition isn’t horrible in the scheme of things — that’s actually pretty close to most schools in-state tuition’s for graduate professional degree programs — it’s just the cost of living in New York City that will get you.

That context totally helps. As I’m sure you know, the New school/Parsons has an incredible reputation as a school of design globally, but I don’t know much about it in terms of architecture specifically — the good news is every accredited school of architecture in the United States is closely monitored by the NAAB (the national architectural accrediting board). So every program, including the less competitive /prestigious” programs, offer the most high-quality and rigorous architectural education as prescribed by the board. In fact, NAAB had very strict requirements about what courses are taught, how they are taught, and what is happening in each design studio and Elective across the country. (Y’all the review criteria is insane) Since Parsons is accredited, you will get a high quality education from there, the same education you would get a Columbia, or GSD or MIT or elsewhere because ALL of the programs are held to the SAME standard. And to be sure, standards are insanely high. If you look at the course curriculums for programs across the country, you will notice that they almost have identical course sequences, from theory/history, to design studio, to comprehensive/integrated, professional practice and representational courses; that is because all of the NAAB programs in the nation are adhering to the same exact prescription. — if you do a little digging, I bet you will find that many of the adjunct educators within the Parsons school also teach at GSAPP. This is quite common where universities are closely linked geographically. Where are you coming from in Europe?

Thank you so, so much, this is incredibly helpful! I was struggling to understand the academic landscape in the US and this gives me a much better perspective on how architecture education works in the US. I am very interested in the sociological perspectives on architecture and urbanism,so I think Parsons is a good choice for that and NYC is the perfect environment. I'm from Germany and I would say that the programs here are generally on a good level, but very different.

I got accepted into Parsons last cycle with a 35% scholarship. When I went to visit, I was not impressed with their studio spaces and allocation of resources. The architecture building is one of the oldest buildings of the New School. The studios were very dark, a bit cubicle in nature, and it looks like the architecture students seem to get the short end of the stick. I personally decided not to go to Parsons after seeing that.

I toured there last month and found the same thing. Very small studio and mainly focused on fashion and art programs. Could just be small because located in the heart of NYC

also looking for this -- hotels are expensive. let me know if you found any groups !

also want to know ! - what program did you get in?

i got in the M.S. Advanced Architectural Design, hbu?

same !

i participated today in the MSAAD curriculum presentation via zoom, and here are some highlights: there were about 80 people on the zoom, they also mentioned the cohort usually rounds up to 100-105 people. the director seems really passionate about the program, he enjoys being a part of it and the student work produced. the curriculum and the whole program is very centered in nurturing your OWN interests. of course the fact of being in NY was a big selling point but i liked that not everything revolves around just that. at least to me it did NOT seem like all they had to say was ¨hey look at us we're an arch school in ny and that's all we have to offer¨. in the summer semester it's only 10 studio options which are only for AAD students, while in fall and spring it's about 20 options and mix students from the MARCH program; since you already explored and got accustomed to the school during the summer, it's kinda like when you go back in the fall you already have a higher level of knowledge to participate in more advanced studios and conversations with more people. studios are 8-12 students. the whole presentation was based on showing student work and to me they showed a huge variety of perspectives. something that scared me is the quality of graphic and animations that the projects were presented with, this was actually one of the biggest motivating factors when i decided to apply to gsapp, but looking at these projects by past students i just sat there thinking how the hell am i going to achieve that level lol. honestly i loved it, listen i know the whole point of the session was to sell us on the program lol and I KNOW it's not worth 100k in debt but being in that zoom made me more scared of missing this chance than anything else. hope this helps if youre thinking about going there!

@lhr1, you are making the right choice 100% to wait and not spend that money. Those students are using software to create those videos and renders that you will learn and eventually be able to do in your sleep! Same with the conceptual design stuff and representational drawing skills, you will learn those in any program worth its salt. -- Then you'll never use em again in the profession LOL ;)

You should have applied to Boston.

Where in Boston ? And why so ?

Why not? If you’re just picking places at random without researching in advance, what’s the difference?

At this point it’s done. Can’t really think of applying anywhere now. Let me know if you have any opinions about the school and course I had asked for

See if you can reach out to the faculty in the program and get zoom meetings with them, find out how the approach Computational design and how their methodology would prepare you for professional practice! i If you can find passionate educators with whom you connect, then go there! ..Having said that, Pittsburgh seems like a very critical place to study architecture. I used to party with my friends at Penn State which was fun, but not a lot in the way of architectural or urban design to inspire

Thanks @immart

200k for a glorified art degree? For fuck's sake, are you that dim? No arch degree is worth anything above 40k today. 6-figure student loans for this career path is criminal.

I have to second what Non has said. No architectural degree is worth taking out $200,000 in debt. 

Just for a bit of perspective on that. 

Your monthly payments will be around $2,000 for 15 years. 

The national average pay for new architectural intern is $44k (up to $75k in large metro areas like NYC). 

Do the math.

absolutely no, no way. im from the Dom. Rep., intl applicant with intl degree from a developing country and only got accepted into gsapp with no funding. my latino parents wanted to start taking out loans and stuff so i "dont miss this chance", but hell no. what am i really going to be missing anyways? its not worth it, no matter how prestigious or hard to get into the school is. my plan is just to try again next year and apply to more schools to land an offer with funding. its the only and smartest way to go about it, if youre not filthy rich ofc!

Being accepted into GSAPP suggests that you are a highly qualified applicant. Perhaps applying to a few less competitive schools next time might yield you some offers with funding.

@Non-Sequitur -- I'm dim? Fuck off lurker. This thread is literally about applicants to dominantly $60,000+/yr institutions. Have you noticed that if you read above you'll see constant Yale, GSD, MIT, and GSAPP? I'm trying to consult with other applicants on their results and offers, assuming that they aren't on a full ride somehow paying your $40k max for 3-3.5 years that doesn't even cover food and housing while being a student. I never said I was paying 200k, just if anyone was expecting to. That's one of my options. That's why I'm in this chat seriously considering each and every one of my options because why the fuck would I not with the caliber of this decision to pursue a masters degree.

Non Sequitur nailed it! ABSOLUTELY NOT worth 200k. Breaks my heart that our culture has programmed us to even think this might be acceptable. These school's names aren't as relevant in this profession as people think they are. 200k if you were going into Medicine, maybe!

@Chad Miller -- I appreicate the perspective. In terms of monthly payments via federal loans and income adjusted, I've seen it lower than 2,000 expecting a starting salary of 60-70k working in NYC/metropolitan areas like you've said. Dual income no kids not married is what I expect in order to better manage inevitable loans in post. It's unfortunate but with even in the schools I have received full rides to, housing, food transport, and materials already run the estimates to 70-80k. Is the only viable option to live with parents, work part time jobs, and not have a car to make payments on during masters? That's the only way I can really see it being viewed as valid with some of the perspectives from those saying it isn't worth it.

zaroth 

First off Non isn't wrong. No architectural degree is worth a $200k price tag. Ever. 

Second - I don't know your finical situation so the $2,000 a month was an average. 

Third -  I'm glad you have a full ride scholarship. That's the only way it makes financial sense for even $70-$80k even with dual income and no kids.  Yes you'll be making more money in NYC but as you know the cost of living is incredibly high there.  

Put it this way - where I live in Grand Junction, CO the average starting pay for an intern is $42k.  You would need to make about $116k to keep your standard of living the same in NY, NY. 

@Chad Miller -- Yeah my response to Non is more about the attitude in their comment, I'm just asking to see what the scope of loans looks like for this year's applicants but if you get called out for spending over 50k I can see why people likely don't want to say anything. Also seems like Non has for like 10 years been commenting and saying nonstop to go to the cheapest possible option every time, so I think it's a nice kind of initiation into archinect forum.

Non's been saying it for ten years because it's true. As long as you attend an accredited school it doesn't matter where you go.

There are some people who think that if they go a 'prestigious' school they will get paid more, get to design the next big building, ect. That's not true. 

Attending a prestigious school MAY help you with networking but that's it. Your personal work (portfolio) and participation in the architectural community with have 10x the impact on your career than where you got your degree.

Z... you seriously need to reconsider how valuable arch degrees are and it does not matter if you're the smartest person in the world, swallowing 100k or more debt for an arch degree is fucking stupid.

Non! He looked you up and has your number dude! You're going about this all wrong, convince all the youngins to go all in, $500k or bust. When they come out asking for fat initial salaries it'll help raise wages for the rest of us

Sequitur I only wish your comments were constructed from some kind of foundation or base of experience you could share, but all you've done is act as a droning voice of dejection for the field and the prospect of studying it. Noone is going to make decisions on grad school based on the ill-tempered ramble of a 40/50-something year old who dissuades by not-so-subtly showing their immense regret of getting into this industry. You can direct your frustrations toward the graduate programs and the prices they set, but maybe for next couple years of M.arch applicant threads you could rephrase your absolutist mentality into something more palatable than coming across like an asshole.

zaroth - you're reading too much into this. Non is a successful architect with a good deal of knowledge about the profession. He is simply blunt and tired of seeing people pay way too much for a degree.

I'll say this again - Non isn't wrong. If you're paying $100k for a degree in architecture you're foolish. You'll never be able to get out from that type of debt with how much you'll be making.

To be honest, its starting to sound like you're the one who is upset about how much you're going to pay for your education.  I know, it sucks.  

Chad - I'm sensing there is some kind of mix-up with the actual point of this entire conversation. $200,000 for architecture school is obscene, I understand that and never said it wasn't. When we unpacked that 200k and talked about monthly payments, initial salary, and dual income no kids, it was not an attempt by me to justify and defend a $200,000 debt that I would be bringing to my grave. It is me asking a forum of applicants in similar positions looking at similar offers, cheap and expensive, and gauging a range of loans with their respective program, as the role of financials are of obvious importance. If Non is a successful architect with a good deal of knowledge about the profession, he can act that way. Lurking on forums filled with 20-somethings calling the degree a "glorified art degree" is in no way productive in a literal architecture-dedicated forum. While it doesn't make him wrong about the weight of expenses, it certainly draws a massive contrast to you who actually shows an interest in providing advice and elaborating through useful conversation.

There was some kind of mix up. 

You took Non's comment as in insult against you. It wasn't. Non was saying if you pay $200k for an architectural education you're a fucking moron.  

 An architectural education from most high end schools are 'glorified art degrees'. Look at the accreditation data for these high end schools. Look at job placement data by the schools. Look at the licensing data. Speak to firms about who they hire. Most high end schools do not perform well in preparing their students for the practice of architecture.

That being said . . . .

Everyone graduates with a hug knowledge gap. That's what your internship is for. You're not going to know enough to even assist in practicing architecture without someone much more experienced by your side.  There is a reason most architects don't hit their 'stride' until their 50's.  

This is actually helpful and provides insight. I appreciate that. Non saying "For fucks sake, are you that dim?" is certainly infantilizing and an insult, so I took it that way. Also got a few private messages from people apologizing for him, so I'm not going to act like he's actually a hard-shelled puppy looking out for my best interests.

He's not a puppy. 

He's not looking out for you. 

Non used to explain to people why going into huge debt for an architectural degree is a bad idea.  The majority of people would argue with him, tell him is an idiot, an bad architect, a failure.  After a few years, theses same people tend to then complain that they're fed up with the profession after a few years of not 'making it'. They then say stuff like 'we should be making as much as doctors'. It's annoying at best.  

Awh, I feel bad for him. That's rough trying to explain and have a good conversation with people who respond really rudely like calling them an idiot and other terms alike.

It's interesting to hear the archinect forum as a place full of 20-somethings... My experience is that people like Non, donna, chad, etc are the regulars and for about a month or two out of the year the forum gets inundated with people applying to arch school, who then go silent for the remainder after acceptances come through...

My mistake @joseffischer I intended to say thread instead of forum. Don't mean to insult those outside of 20s that are M.arch applicants.

Chad, your patience is admirable. The rest are just soon to be disgruntled m.arch grads wondering where their 100k went when they realize they can’t cure cancer with their art degree.

I'm sorry about those other people chad talked about who hurt you. cracking open a singha in your name my friend

Hurt? um... no, not even close. Patience runs short tho when people think the internet can answer their adult questions. Enjoy not being able to buy a house for 20y after you graduate.

Well from what Chad said it seems like a lot of people were calling you a "failure, bad architect, idiot" and you got scared off from actually rationalizing your points to people anymore. I just think that's just mean and makes me sad y'know because I wouldn't say that. Also you're fully locked in on the constructed reality in your head that I said I was planning to pay $200,000 but can't budge. Super specific about the house too, lol. Projecting much? You're an odd character but I do actually enjoy talking with you

Try again. maybe put some effort next time.

Nah we'd be friends in real life and you know it

zaroth - The only people who've had issues with Non's advice have been a dozen or so undergrads who don't know what they're talking about. 

Also you missed the part where the ignorant undergrads all seem to come back a few years after graduation and complain about how their education was a waste and they aren't making enough money to pay their student loans.  

I hope you get better at trolling. 

Chad, you got a full night's rest along with me so read over this thread again, see that you've been literally arguing about a point I never made and have clarified too many times, make a coffee, enjoy that Colorado landscape, and forget about it.

No one has been arguing a point you never made. 

We've been saying do not pay $200k for an architectural education.

It wasn't about you.  No one ever said it was about you.  No one ever said you were paying $200k for an education.  

The responses given were general comments about paying $200k for an education.  

You made this about you.  

It's raining hard here so I can't get out into the great Colorado landscape.  

I will forget about you as soon as I leave this site.  

You're bad at trolling.  

womp womp

i think this forum skews "always take the cheapest option 100%" which is definitely valid but I find from talking to architects/students out in the world that I've met its pretty common to not care as much about money (maybe theyre all just from rich families lmao), I've met plenty of people who've turned down full rides for MIT/GSD/etc but also they've been able to negotiate more money usually so its not like full ride vs 0 scholarship. That being said I am 95% picking my cheapest option haha

Stressed, minimum I would say:
500GB storage - get external up to 1TB no doubt and store most of your work here to alleviate program storage
16 GB ram (32 ideal)
Nvidia or AMD Graphics (4GB Min 8GB Ideal)
Windows is preferred, MAC you can boot camp but why deal with that.

I would look for a factory refurbished Lenovo Thinkpad or a Dell/Asus. Newegg, etc. You can typically find great deals sub $1,000. This will get you around running Adobe CC, Revit, Rhino, SKP and any rendering software.

thank you

The "Im excited to come to Yale" thing is the funniest thing I've seen all day! Thank you for being humble sharing that.. hilarious stuff. Congrats on all your admits!

boutta scan the crowd @ the yale open house tmrw and act like we've never been on this forum before hahaha

lol i wanted to say it but damn! it all went quiet and tense in here after that. thank you! youve been a real one from the start :)

appreciated joey! going with my second cheapest option hehe

Congrats Zaroth! That’s huge!

You should not need AutoCAD or Revit at all at this point. Toward the end of your program, you should have a professional practice course where they teach Revit… Otherwise, you will learn it in the field during your first internship, but there is a great YouTube channel for revit called the Balkan Architect. Rhino will be key at this stage, and again, I would go to YouTube tutorials. Get familiar with the interface. AutoCAD, in that you type your commands in, which means you need to know them. It absolutely takes some getting used to but once you get used to it, you will be soaring. Starred by trying to do basic 3-D boxes, cylinders, cones, then try to do some Boolean operations through these masses, then play around with rails, and then use “curves”, to start playing with pipes.… Know that the word “curve” in the Rhino world just means a line whether or not it’s curved or straight. But find a YouTube tutorial that’s giving you a specific task to follow along with, that’ll be more beneficial than random playing in the software. — if you want to pay for courses, you could do some thing like the “jumpstart” programs at UCLA or Columbia, even if you’re not a registered student, they will typically allow you to participate, these two or three week courses are designed to give you a crash course in Rhino and the Adobe suites. (Photoshop and illustrator are also two key softwares that you will need to learn
on day one.)

I meant, the rhino interface is a lot like AutoCAD, in that you have to type in your commands… You can, of course, toggle to the icons and click on them, but it becomes much faster once you know the name of each command to just type it in. You’ll see what I mean once you get going with the YouTube tutorials.

I also recommend looking into your local community college/ colleges.. A lot of them have ample resources/ course offerings in Rhino, AutoCAD, Revit, Adobe Creative suite, etc.

I completed a Rhino course at a local CC and would happily share the course files with you.. My professor broke up commands into worksheet-like .3dm files which helped me understand some of the nuances of the different commands.

Thanks my email is colenelnuggets@gmail.com

Hey Stressed, I'm in a similar boat as you. I've spoken to a few different chairs from graduate departments and the overwhelming thought is that software skills are not necessary to have coming into a program. Rather, having some conception of three-dimensional thinking in conjunction with good design instincts seems to be most crucial up front. It might be good to workin on your hand drawing skills if you aren't proficient? I think I'd agree with Joey and suggest learning some of the more important adobe programs (Photoshop, Indesign, Illustrator, etc); I actually found these programs 100% while developing my portfolio, so maybe you already have some working knowledge of adobe yourself? Lastly, I am very biased when it comes to "intro" courses pushed by schools. Columbia offers a 5 week "introduction to architecture" course, which is between 4-5 thousand dollars. it's full time so you can't work during the month the program lasts, and you'll need to figure out some way to pay your rent in or around Morningside Heights. Youtube is just so insanely democratic and free with information; my two cents (and I'm doing this myself) would be to spend your money on a good computer, a far cheaper online course, and use the time you have before grad school to learn independently and indulge in a bit of free time.

take the cheapest.

jesus christ non sequitur but could you please for once answer someones question?? holly72 is not asking what she should, which choice should she make, which school she should go to. its literally such a direct and precise question on INSIGHT of programs. ¨the cheapest¨ isnt insight. if you have no true insight on the experiences, the student work, the events, the schools culture and vibe... then just dont answer these types of questions which are so clearly stated... what if she for some reason has the same amount of aid for all three??? what if her home country or state or whatever is financing the whole thing and she doesnt have to worry about money? damn this is getting so old and annoying.

Cost is the only that matters when kids still think the name is worth 100k debt. Some get it for free but most don’t. If only one kid reads this and says wait a minute, I’m a fucking idiot for considering this size loan, the. My job is done.

and you have such a valid point but you dont have to disregard other concerns and inquiries just to prove it.

dont go down the street I did @Ih11, sequitur is actually a chatbot AI running broken scripts. it can't learn from input data. tech from the past...

Ai robot? you flatter me.

must be lonely

Nah, just incredibly busy and looking for a few minutes of distraction between coffee cups.

wait this is the best comment you've made hahaha "incredibly busy" is awesome i can tell

you'd be surprised how busy most of the regs here are.

well wasnt this the comic relief we all needed!

Hi holly72, congrats! My friend is in Pratt's M. Arch program so I can better speak to it, but I know that a big draw of U. Miami is the opportunity to study classical architecture (like Yale). RAMSA, a big name firm that uses classical elements, hires from programs like Yale and U. Miami.

Pratt on the other hand is more "artistic" and their studios can be abstract and concept-driven. For example, one of the intro studios was designing an artist's residence using a takeout container. I think they also emphasize fabrication as my friend is almost always making physical models for her studios. One other thing I'd add is that there are Pratt people all over NYC, so if you want to work in New York after graduation, it could be a good program for you. 

I think you can take a look through each program's student work to see if you vibe with their curriculum and faculty focus. If you have the opportunity, maybe also drop by their open houses 

Note: they both offered me full tuition.

Over the last few days I've been doing research and my mind has been racing. I'm super into fashion and architecture and I'd like to be able to explore the two fields more once I've finished the MArch Program. I'm just torn between the two. Everyone has been saying Princeton, because it's Princeton, but I've been dreaming about NYC since my time in undergrad. I  just don't want to regret my decision. 

Can anyone provide any extra insight? 

I definitely don't have as much insight as others or GSAPP students would. But I visited GSAPP last year and the conditions of the facilities were a takeaway I couldn't really forget. Really cramped and tiny workspaces, and to me the building itself felt dated in a way that was beyond aesthetics. Word around is brilliant faculty, keep in mind no thesis but a general kind of "focus" across 3 years. Princeton I haven't researched much but as you already have heard from others... it's Princeton. Arguably experimental compared to other Ivy programs but not sure how the curriculum compares when directly against GSAPP. It will also be a hell of a lot more expensive in NYC which you can always consider after graduation. In my entirely honest personal opinion, GSAPP name carrie's much less weight than Princeton would and I kind of think there's potential for an over abundance of GSAPP Arch grads seeking NYC work. It all depends on what you bring to the program yourself, but seeing some of the projects with wall texts riddled with spelling errors and bad sentence structure, as well as frequent 3D printed models felt less exciting than what I've seen from other schools on a similar tier. Hope this was helpful but it's also from a pretty foggy perspective.

First off, congrats on two full tuition scholarships from Princeton and Columbia! That's major! Can I ask where you're from? I think studying architecture in a stimulating city, or put differently in a city that you'd want to fall in love with is a big consideration (why anyone would want to study architecture in New Haven CT, aka the worst city in America, is literally beyond me...). I'm actually from the Upper West Side, very close to Columbia, and it's an absolutely gorgeous neighborhood. That said, it's not exactly cool or influential or young--lots of unfriendly old people, lots of international Columbia students who don't know how to cross the street, lots of families. Really crappy restaurants (though Harlem has some really dope food and bars) and really stupidly expensive supermarkets. From what I remember the graduate student housing is a total dump (it's like, under the 1 train on 125th street and the building looks like a prison) and, as Chronograph noted, the facilities are very cramped.

the rest of my comment got deleted...ANYWAY, I would be tempted to consider Princeton. It's a small and fabulous program. Princeton is a cool town with a cool record store and a has a ton of resources. I was choosing between Columbia and UCLA, and ultimately went with the program that gave me the full ride (not Columbia, they can eat my shorts) and I'm extremely excited to fall in love with a new city--I think that's really important. You don't go into architecture because you don't like cities...so ya. G ood luck! I'm excited to find out where you end up.

To add to what the previous comments have said about location, an important thing to keep in mind is that living in New York is difficult as a budget-conscious grad student, even with a full ride. A question you should ask yourself is whether you’re ok with the financial pressures and distractions of living in a city like New York. If you are okay with it, then New York will give you many benefits including proximity to professional opportunities that you may not be able to get as a student at Princeton, e.g., my friend at Pratt was able to secure an interesting gig at an urban design firm during the school year because she lives in New York. Another thing to add is that GSAPP is notoriously stingy with funds, so the fact that you got a full ride means that they likely see you succeeding in their program; GSAPP is known for being experimental and students are able to take studio projects in their own directions, for example, my Intro to Arch critic at GSAPP said a classmate of hers created an app for a studio while others went down a more “traditional” route. Given your unique interest in the intersection of fashion and architecture, GSAPP could be a good fit. I also want to provide a counterpoint to Chronograph where, yes, Princeton is very prestigious, but GSAPP is too and has a large alum network in New York due to its larger cohort size (I believe ~60 compared to Princeton’s 10 or so [somebody please correct me if I’m wrong]). At every major firm in New York you will likely find GSAPP alum.
Something to think about. Either way, you have an amazing choice and you’ll have a blast in either program.

I also want to caveat my above message by saying that I did not go through GSAPP or Princeton’s M Arch program. Most of my data points were collected by speaking to working professionals, doing research into the programs, and taking GSAPP’s Intro summer studio, so take what I’m saying with a grain of salt. However, I do live in New York so my comments on location are first-hand :-)

@fancydirt thanks sm and I'm from Michigan!

thank you all for providing your opinion, i'll keep these in mind.

Congrats! Where to?

thanks! yale m.arch I

Let’s goooo!

I was debating between these exact 3 schools!

Would love to hear other people's thoughts but here is what I thought after visiting all of them

Yale: best for capital A architecture and real buildings due to their design build project first year and studio emphasis, great class size and vibe from the open house

Princeton: best attention from professors, most funded thesis and travel opportunities, class size is a bit too small imo

GSAPP: best location, big name professors, and best networking opportunities, most theoretical studios with a lot of digital focus, super cramped studios and maker spaces

something that helped me decide was that someone told me you can learn building construction and how to practice from just actually working and school is a unique time to explore theory/history/independent research 

i decided on yale out of yale vs. gsapp, but princeton rejected me so I also didn't really do much follow up research. gsapp is lowest for me, personally, but princeton vs. yale is a tough call. I'd go with yale but I'm also biased, I think the classical education and interdisciplinary nature of its pedagogy is exciting and progressive while not anti-traditionalist, and avoids falling into the extremes of the visualization-digital focus that gsapp, sci-arc, and weitzman often do (which I find mostly unappealing)

No unless it’s free and you want to delay adulthood.

@stressed, This is a question I’ve debated as well, I think it’s a good move only if you intend to work in academia. And as Non Seq said, only if it comes with a full ride offer. You should not pay a dime to an Ivy League school with a $44 Billion dollar endowment. It makes no sense — they should be paying you …. I’ve talked myself out of it for now coz I’m enjoying developing my design skills on my own.. just landed an incredible position at a sick global design firm and launching my own design/build development practice with their support. Point is, I don’t need anyone to teach me how to get better at this profession in terms of theoretical design, I just have to do it through practice and kick ass!! BUT, if you want to teach architecture and theory at the college level and get paid super well for it, then that one year post-graduate advanced degree will serve you well and help you land a good teaching gig at a good university!! If you plan to actually practice architecture, it’s just not worth the time, in my humble opinion. To Non.Seq’s point about “growing up”, you’re potentially holding up legit career advancement going back to school . — if I do get another masters it will be in real estate development (MRED/MSRED), not in design (MIT, Penn, GSD, USC or UCLA who launches their MRED next year) to bolster my business acumen and learn more the economic factors driving development and the need for architecture at all, but even then, I’m learning all these things in practice and partnering with brilliant business minds so I can focus on being a brilliant designer/architect - so going back for another masters feels like wasting time. There’s too much money to make from working hard and learning in practice. Sorry for the long ass essay answer.

Do architecture professors in the US generally get paid super well?

Yes, yes well into the 6 figures, plus grants for research etc. and after they earn tenure, they can almost never be fired

Joey - Kind of. The average pay for an non tenured professor in architecture is around $87k.  That figure is for someone with an average experience of 9 years.  

Professors with tenure make $130k a year on average IF they  are in the right school. The key is the professor has to be valuable to school. IE - people come to the school for that professor.

Well said. Though it likely depends on multiple factors, I know professors making MUCH more than those figures. The "Ivy" degree may help with negotiations when applying for teaching work at a well funded research university with a solid architecture program.. One quick addition to my note above now that I think about it, in the professional practice course in my last semester of the M.Arch, we were encouraged to go do a 1-year post-professional advanced degree at a big named school if we intended to work in academia.

but to your point @chad, the folks I've spoken to could have been exaggerating the facts .

CM where did you get that stat? 9 years of experience, non tenure and 87k avg? a google search shows a vast range and I can't seem to find the one that says 9 years of experience. is that just the lowest amount you found?

Chrono - It's from a variety of sources, including the department of labor. It takes the average professor 10 years to obtain tenure - hence the 9 year experience at the average highest pay.  Due to my associations I also have private resources from within acidemia.

Joey - I'm sure there are architecture professors making much more than that. The average pay for a non tenured arch professor in NYC was around $190k!  Like you said, there are multiple factors that will impact the pay.  It seems like a good profession if you're interested in it!  

thinking about borrowing a giant pile of money for a piece of paper in hopes that you'll be able to make back said money (eventually) by teaching the next generation of suckers who enter the profession is on a different level of silly.

Also, profs with no practical work experience are not worth 200k even if that's how much they earn.

Depending a persons experience, and where the school is I could see arch profs making $200k a year in the US. Probably not in Canada though. ;)

On a related note:  The best professors I've ever encountered were the ones with decades of experience practicing architecture.  These professors not only had the real world experience but they also were great instructors who enjoyed teaching others.  All of them were able to keep their ego out of the classroom and simply guide students.  

Same, my favorites were the ones who practiced while teaching. So much better. One of my professors (who told us to go to an ivy for one more year if we wanted to enter academia - though, he was being somewhat ironic in tone coz that wasn't his path at all), is a top 100 ranked architect in the US running a solid small practice and teaching solid design studios and other courses. His design studios lean into practice and design/build (at scale) more-so than into theory. It makes a HUGE difference. He has a MASSIVE and obnoxious ego but can back it up.. The ones who did not practice were weaker educators generally though it must be acknowledged that their focus was theory and they were damn good theorists. I feel like I can wrap my head around any conceptual dilemma at the office and solve it. And that's largely due to those intense theoretical design studios. Theory and Practice are the sun and the moon, both necessary.

Chad, tenured arch profs don't make even close to that... maybe 140k (cad) average. Their salaries are also public knowledge too since university is partially publicly funded. But that 140 goes a long way when you don't need to pay for your hospital bills or ammunition.

just checked, the top prof in my grad school is 280k cad

Yup. In the US though a tenured arch prof can make $200k in major metro areas like NYC, San Fran, ect. Then again the cost of living in those major metro areas are 2-4x the US average.