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NFTs: why would anyone pay for a link to a JPG?

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Hi everyone, about a decade ago I got an m.Arch and m.Sci in architecture. My first week studying architecture I got interested in parametric modeling with Grasshopper, and a year or two later Arduino/Raspberry Pi's with IoT/smart environment sensing with interactive installations. My thesis back then was basically that data/information was a new material and needed to be better integrated to the built environment beyond slapping a screen on everything.

After graduating I went to work for one of the flat glass manufacturer's R&D HQs working on integrating IoT sensors and various active glass tech like PDLC. Moved to India and worked in new product development for one of their big companies and got more and more into programming, eventually moving to Japan where I worked as an AI/ML developer for 2 or 3 years.

Back in grad school I used to build GPU workstations for a lot of people in my cohort and got exposed to bitcoin/etc (we didn't mine though, because we had Nvidia GPUs for CUDA/Octane, and they weren't as effective as AMDs).

Because of Covid, had more time on my hands, got into crypto again and came across NFTs, my immediate reaction to which was "why would anyone pay for a link to a JPG?" As a designer the easiest way to invalidate that statement was to think about what if they weren't just links to JPGs (receipts), but something intrinsic to itself (more like a blueprint or sheet music).

Long story short, came up with and released an NFT on a proof of stake (no mining so no huge carbon footprint) blockchain that was heavily influenced by my architectural training/background. It sold out over 2 months, after which I was able to quit my job because of it.

When I was working on this project a year ago, I was optimistic about the future of this potential new medium. Of course it's largely inundated with low effort monkey JPGs now, but I do think that a lot of architects are well suited to exploring the space more deeply, so I wanted to share it with you.

Anyways if you're interested I give a presentation from minutes 4 to 17 roughly explaining the ideas, more info at www.unsigs.com if you're curious.




 
Jun 6, 22 9:06 am
Non Sequitur

I understand just about enough of this to know it's just a silly tech-bro money pyramid scheme.  

Jun 6, 22 9:08 am  · 
3  ·  1

reminds me why i left architecture: mostly people who bitch and moan that no one understands them and doctors and lawyers get paid so much so why don't they.

Jun 6, 22 9:16 am  · 
 ·  1
Non Sequitur

enjoy your magical pictures.

Jun 6, 22 9:26 am  · 
1  · 

enjoy being a wage slave

Jun 6, 22 9:30 am  · 
 ·  1
Non Sequitur

That I am not, but that's for the offer.

Jun 6, 22 9:38 am  · 
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SneakyPete

Doctors don't hope they get rich by selling a link to a photo of your busted spleen, dipshit.

Jun 6, 22 12:36 pm  · 
5  · 
square.

enjoying living off vc money that is being siphoned from other parts of the economy that are actually valuable

Jun 6, 22 12:47 pm  · 
2  ·  1

Value is perceived and determined at the point of transaction.

I sold roughly 1 million USD of NFTs during the primary sale, and they've gone on to sell about $3m over the past year on the secondary market.

no VC money, one of the collectors does have a Rothko though.


Jun 6, 22 4:47 pm  · 
 · 
square.

Value is perceived and determined at the point of transaction.

the fact that you think value can only be "determined" via transaction speaks volumes.

Jun 6, 22 5:55 pm  · 
2  · 

you were the one who put it in economic terms: "other parts of the economy that are actually valuable"


Jun 6, 22 6:17 pm  · 
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square.

i said "parts of the economy that are valuable" (meaning an adjective describing the noun, economy..) you on the other hand, flipped the equation around and made a sweeping judgment about what constitutes value itself: money, and money only.

Jun 7, 22 10:12 am  · 
 · 

Thank you RCZ, that is exactly what I was getting at with value is determined at the point of transaction.

Jun 8, 22 7:35 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

Alex, what you've not explained yet is why there is any value in any of this junk at all outside of just pimping this to the next gullible wanker. Are tech bros really boasting of their NFT collection like some sort of modern stamp collection? What does that $200 (or 2million) jpg get me other than the option to hawk for more to someone else?

Jun 8, 22 8:15 am  · 
1  · 

What you don't understand is your, or anyone's perception of value is subjective to you and a result of your individual priorities.

Taken to a logical extreme, if someone doesn't value living, then water and food is useless and have no value.

In a network of individuals, value is defined by transactions wherein there is a transfer of resources between distinct identities which serves as a signal to other agents what other people are willing to exchange for a good or service.

Generally speaking, things which are "practically" useful (food/water/shelter, things with "real world" utility) have more value ascribed to them as the demand/desire for them is a function of biological needs and not esoteric/abstract notions of self-actualization/appreciation.

Jun 9, 22 9:04 am  · 
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^in the above example, food should probably be replaced by "caloric intake" as food could have an experiential value due to its taste/texture which someone could be willing to pay for beyond the value it provides in terms of sustenance.

Jun 9, 22 9:17 am  · 
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SneakyPete

NFTs aren't food. Making everything a a commodity is a cynical way to justify greed.

Jun 9, 22 10:41 am  · 
1  · 

I get it now, you lack any sort of higher order abstraction/thinking abilities. Good bye Petey.

Jun 9, 22 1:04 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

You're the individual resorting to absurd metaphor to justify your allegiance to the wasteful process underpinning your art, my friend. If your art isn't the output but instead is the process, what about the process being on chain makes it important? Just because it sells doesn't make it worthwhile outside of the financial benefit for you. If you're making your art to sell it, fine. But you're claiming some deeper meaning and value. You have yet to even come close to proving that out.

Jun 9, 22 1:39 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

yes, there might be a small, insignificant minority of individuals who have excess capital and are able to gamble on speculative commodities. they find this trash "valuable." however, the majority does not buy art in this way, or even at all, let alone digital "things" that are a self-referential loop on the nft process.

so while you might be able to define the smallest amount of people who value what you are doing, part of the work of society is to debate what is valuable for the majority, which is where your weak food analogy falls apart, and actually further proves why value in basic needs like food and shelter is far more necessary than whatever it is you are defining as valuable.

Jun 9, 22 3:13 pm  · 
 · 

Answered elsewhere in this thread, but not all chains, and specifically the one I use, suck down energy the way you are describing. I'm sure more energy gets used making architectural visualizations than running this network, so should 3d renders be banned?

I'm interested in on chain art, as my thesis in architecture school had to do with treating data as a new material, in need of integration to the built environment beyond slapping screens on refrigerators/etc - has a bit to do with material honesty and expressing the intrinsic properties of a material.

Jun 9, 22 3:14 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

But what about the process being on chain makes it matter? If I draw a picture in a moving car, why does the car matter?

Jun 9, 22 4:13 pm  · 
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Humans invent new technologies and then explore the limits of them. I guess you're fine with the world as it exists today.

Jun 9, 22 4:42 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

I'm asking you how your use of the Blockchain makes your art more meaningful. So far you have not convinced me that the results are any different from using any set of programming tools to generate the art. This does not suggest anything about my point of view on the world as it exists today. You're being intentionally obtuse.

Jun 9, 22 5:21 pm  · 
1  · 

Put in simple terms it's a bit like the site of a building and the contextual relationship of the object to its location. The design of the structure of the operations and their relationship to one another only makes sense in the context of a distributed ledger.

Jun 9, 22 5:53 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

Ok. Unpack that a bit for me. What sense does it make and how does it differ from the same process run locally? Is your art the output or the code on the chain? Is the blend of the two?

Jun 9, 22 9:36 pm  · 
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square.

Put in simple terms it's a bit like the site of a building and the contextual relationship of the object to its location. The design of the structure of the operations and their relationship to one another only makes sense in the context of a distributed ledger.


this is where your training as an architect becomes apparent - this is all self-referential and only interesting to people within a very small, esoteric circle. when it comes to art, everyday people, on the other hand, care about what they see in the end result, and to the point that has been made over and over, the end result of what you are doing is nothing new, you're simply trying to find a new means to commodifying art that has already been made by selling the "novel" aspect of it.

Jun 10, 22 11:17 am  · 
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What can be run/stored on a blockchain tends to be inherently limited, as it's designed to be distributed/stored across many many nodes, and if anyone can upload a JPG to the chain, the size of the chain would explode. To keep this from happening, chains institute maximum sizes of a transaction/metadata information that can be stored "on chain"

This is why most NFTs are "just" links to JPGs, you can store a few characters in the NFT, and give a link to something else. On Cardano, these limits are relatively generous, 16KB, which is a lot more than many other chains which allowed me to try to make something simple which could fit in that space and produced something that was beyond that limit.

As I outlined in my original post, I was looking to invalidate the statement "NFTs are just a link to a JPG" and this is what I came up with. It only makes sense in the context of a blockchain as the code and its arguments/parameters are distributed across the chain.

Jun 10, 22 1:29 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

So this art exists as an example to bolster your side of an internet debate?

Jun 10, 22 1:59 pm  · 
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monosierra

It's the wild west right now. There are legit collectors, some FOMO folks, and a lot more who are looking to flip their investments. It's a damn shame there are so many shills and speculators crowding out the market. I think it's a good thing more designers are getting involved and adding artistry to the works.

Jun 6, 22 9:36 am  · 
2  · 

Definitely.

My intent was to try to share a potential interesting design problem with people who have a shared background/skill set that I think is very pertinent to the problem at hand.

Jun 6, 22 4:48 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

"proof of stake (no mining so no huge carbon footprint)"

This is not true. Proof of stake still has mining, but you need previously mined crypto to STAKE in order to mine new crypto. It's "saving" energy by limiting the number of miners to those who got in early. So basically the gold trade post gold rush. You're still ruining the environment for a fucking text string in a blockchain.

Jun 6, 22 12:34 pm  · 
1  ·  1

no, not correct. Proof of Work runs on entropy, Proof of Stake runs on game theory.

I run a pool on some ARM systems that consume <15w of electricity each.

Jun 6, 22 12:49 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

So you bought in. Great. Can I get in that proof of stake without buying any crypto?

Jun 6, 22 1:27 pm  · 
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If you could convince people to delegate (vote) for you on the network, you could participate in its consensus mechanism and receive rewards for doing so.

Jun 6, 22 3:11 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

So I only need to buy a bunch of makeup from you, convince my friends to buy it from me and sell it to their friends, and we could all make money? Cool! Do I get a pink Cadillac if I prove enough steak?

Jun 6, 22 6:09 pm  · 
3  · 

enjoy your savings being inflated away by the central bank of your choice

Jun 6, 22 6:18 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

You realize you're just a rube, right? You're out on the street selling "NFTs" so the crypto scam can keep hoovering up real dollars from evet bigger fools.

Jun 6, 22 6:38 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

If you think i keep my money in "savings" then you're dumber than i thought.

Jun 6, 22 6:40 pm  · 
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Sorry, not used to architect's having money to invest.

Also i'm not selling anything. the collection sold out and i've retired. My work has been discussed in a MoCA panel, so think whatever you want.

Jun 6, 22 6:50 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

sick burn bro. you must have made a lot of money, hope it was worth the cost for the rest of us for you to get whatever sum you did. Hope you get out before it goes the way of Terra.

Jun 6, 22 6:55 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

"i'm not selling anything. the collection sold out"


Let me rephrase since you seem a bit thick.


You realize you WERE just a rube, right? You WERE out on the street selling "NFTs" so the crypto scam COULD keep hoovering up real dollars from ever bigger fools.

Jun 6, 22 6:56 pm  · 
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Yup. hope you get out of architecture because most of the built environment is absolute shit.

Crypto is full of scams, but i'm not here to defend crypto.


Jun 6, 22 6:57 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

You defend crypto every time you defend NFTs. There are no NFTs without crypto.

Jun 6, 22 6:58 pm  · 
2  · 

you defend the bankers and mortgage industry every time you design a building. there is no building without finance.

Jun 6, 22 7:16 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

I don't defend anybody. I do what I do with a lot of disgust and self loathing. Can you say the same?

Jun 6, 22 7:17 pm  · 
3  · 

if you don't have to defend the bankers which enable your creative practice to exist, why should i take responsibility for a bunch of scammy crypto projects that have nothing to do with the blockchain i'm operating on?

Jun 6, 22 7:21 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

Cardano is crypto. https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/cardano/

Jun 6, 22 8:02 pm  · 
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then this is architecture (one thing is not responsible/guilty for everything in its discipline/space) https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/559b/ee9d/e58e/ceb6/1100/0015/medium_jpg/Sony_Building_by_David_Shankbone.jpg?1436282508

Jun 6, 22 8:27 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

That's absolutely architecture.

Jun 6, 22 10:51 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

A better youtube explainer:


Jun 6, 22 12:35 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

Alexander seems to be pointedly ignoring this one. Can't imagine why.

Jun 6, 22 6:38 pm  · 
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Sorry, saw this when it came out. He gets a lot of his crypto stuff wrong, but yes, most every NFT is cringey low effort links to JPGs drawn by people on Fiverr.

Jun 6, 22 6:48 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

What about your swirly squares makes your art less cringey?

What does he get wrong?

Jun 6, 22 6:54 pm  · 
 · 

I'm interested in exploring the technical and cultural implications of a new technology, not just throwing links to JPGs on a chain. Guess we'll see whose right about blockchains in the future.

As for what he gets wrong, can't be arsed to rewatch that after wasting all the time I did the first time.


Jun 6, 22 7:02 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

The success or failure of blockchains or NFTs won't prove me wrong. Scams succeed every day. Doesn't make them less of a scam.

Jun 6, 22 7:04 pm  · 
1  ·  1
monosierra

Alex, you're better off explaining your creative process, inspirations, and workflow. For instance, I'm interested in the tools of your trade and where you get your ideas. Too often, NFT artists just take an existing image and put it on the blockchain of choice - the NFT aspect of the work has no bearing on its artistic merit, only its dissemination. It's as if the inventors of photography had simply gone around taking the most basic of photos to quickly sell to the public instead of exploring the new channels of creativity that the new media offers.

Jun 6, 22 2:19 pm  · 
1  · 

The photography example is one I often bring up as an example of a new medium finding its place in the larger art world.

As for inspiration, the video linked above talks a bit about what I mean by making art with a blockchain, as opposed to putting art (or monkey JPGs) on a blockchain.

That video is more directed at crypto people without a lot of cultural/art understanding, but recently I was able to participate in a panel discussion at MoCA Toronto on this (scroll down to Artist Talks - Creative Conversations: Blockchain Art and NFTs) if you're interested in more, my part starts around 40 minutes in.

https://moca.ca/videos/

Jun 6, 22 3:06 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

So the new (destructive) technology of blockchain, which was created for (and is still solely intended to) make a few people very rich, should be used as a new medium? Let's not.

Jun 6, 22 6:46 pm  · 
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You're right we should all just go back to primitive huts. Shelter and buildings are just a scam to make a few people very rich.

Jun 6, 22 7:04 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

Reductio Ad Absurdum

Jun 6, 22 7:08 pm  · 
3  · 
square.

Shelter and buildings are just a scam to make a few people very rich.

this kid is cracking me up.

Jun 7, 22 10:13 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

Shelter, in this example, would only be a scam if the end product was a hologram or some other unusable/nonexistent thing. At least buildings are real and can be used for something other than financial scummaery.

Jun 7, 22 11:00 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

So Ricky, it’s just like tech bro Pokémon cards.

Jun 8, 22 7:54 am  · 
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square.

your original question is unanswered - why would anyone prefer a digital image of artwork vs the physical thing? aside from the locusts who can't get enough of buy and selling commodities with no intention other than to make more money, the answer is no one.

Jun 6, 22 3:42 pm  · 
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monosierra

Sounds like Alex is working on generative art (Scripting with Python in one project, so quite a different workflow than say, painting). Unfortunately NFTs carry an increasingly heavy stigma due to all the shilling and speculating and low-effort schemes so headlining this thread with NFTs is probably asking for trouble! Casey Rehm works in this space too, though he's been known as an architect-turned-algorithmic artist for years.

Alex raised some interesting questions on rarity/scarcity from what I'm hearing so far. The Sol Lewitt example is great. I like the idea of an artwork being generated continuously, by lot's of 'artists' for eternity, beginning with a set of initial instructions.

Jun 6, 22 4:16 pm  · 
2  · 
monosierra

Though I suppose that like a lot of modern art that shrugged off the exterior world to focus on the interior, generative art (blockchain or not) tends to intrigue rather than wow. They make you question their meaning but might not be the most beautiful things around.

Jun 6, 22 4:28 pm  · 
1  · 

I believe I answered it in the post, I'm making things which exist "on chain" intrinsically, that are not just references to things stored elsewhere. In essence "what does the brick want to be" becomes "what does the NFT want to be"

If you know the difference between and SVG and a PNG, it's a bit like that except taken a step further, code is just text and quite efficient to store directly on a blockchain.

If most NFTs are just receipts/deeds to a house, but not the house itself, what I'm doing is collapsing the receipt and the object that the receipt is referencing into one thing.

Jun 6, 22 4:36 pm  · 
1  · 
monosierra

I'm intrigued by but don't get the interactivity aspect of it. Sounds like the code stored in the blockchain is open for editing ... or is it? So users/owners could edit their unique code and then contribute to creating a larger, ever-changing work? Reminds me of that r/places collage thing on Reddit last month.

Jun 6, 22 5:42 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

You're making art that can only be seen if I look at the Blockchain? Cool. Let me go install a monitor in my gallery.

Jun 6, 22 6:11 pm  · 
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@sneakypete - really? never seen any digitally generated work in a museum? did you learn architecture at notre dame or what?

@monosierra - anything stored on chain is basically immutable (unchangeable) so no it's not editable. I have released it in an open source manner and encourage people to play with it/remix it however, which a lot of people have done.

Jun 6, 22 6:15 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

You can digitally generate art without destroying the environment to the degree that NFTs do and without putting money in the pocket of grifters, like crypto does.

Jun 6, 22 6:49 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

What does the blockchain do for your art that you couldn't so with basic programming but without the extreme cost to the planet and without the enriching of profit-seeking users of the blockchain? The blockchain is not inherent to your work, and nothing in your talk even tries to claim otherwise. Post the code, don't use crypto. Even proof of stake is bad for the environment, just because it's not AS bad as proof of work doesn't make it good. The use of the blockchain is a gimmick. You're using a costly gimmick.

Jun 6, 22 6:52 pm  · 
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Do you render your architectural designs (or have others do it for you?) If so you've used more electricity than I have making and distributing these NFTs.

Jun 6, 22 6:54 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

That's patently false. Every addition to the ledger used all of the prior electricity for the entire chain. That's how it works.

Also, the statement of you waking up to the idea of people "plinking" and "supporting you" is a joke. You're trying to make as much as you can with as little work as possible. You're not convincing me.

Jun 6, 22 6:57 pm  · 
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edit: return as submit is kicking my ass.

Jun 6, 22 6:59 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Pete, never mind the energy use, what about just the amount of brain power used to create all these false intellectual gymnastics just to convince other idiots to buy into this jive? That alone could wipe out world hunger, or save New Jersey, or make a better pot of coffee.

Jun 6, 22 6:59 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

You supposedly sold a million dollars worth of art as a nobody. There's a worthy discussion of the value of art to be had, but the fact that you sold that much as a nobody just indicates how much of a scam this shit is. Even nobody's works are being bought in the hopes of finding a bigger fool after the initial purchase.

Jun 6, 22 7:02 pm  · 
1  · 

Yes because names make art better

Jun 6, 22 7:05 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

You missed the point, my dude. I didn't say that. You got bought out because the scam needs fuel. You're the fuel.

Jun 6, 22 7:06 pm  · 
3  · 

Also you have a lot of misunderstanding about "the ledger" and various chains/resource usage. Have a nice night.

Jun 6, 22 7:10 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

If you would care to educate me, I will listen. I wager you'll just walk away instead.

Jun 6, 22 7:15 pm  · 
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Lots of first generation chains (BTC) and second gen (ETH) etc used a ton of power.

I used to mine BTC in grad school, but stopped because of FPGAs and ASICs coming online in China causing the tech to become centralized and using dirty coal as you point out.

Current gen blockchains mostly operate on proof of stake, they do not share any ledger with the previous generations, and the amount of power it requires to run a full node is insignificant (10-15w/node compared to 300-500w per GPU in PoW)



Jun 6, 22 7:17 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

Insignificant when compared to proof of work. Not insignificant over all.

Jun 6, 22 8:03 pm  · 
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Nope, just insignificant. 10-15w is like an LED light bulb per node.

Jun 6, 22 8:15 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

3.5 million led bulbs so you can get paid for programming a computer to make swirly squares. Job well done, guys. Time to pack it in.

Jun 6, 22 10:53 pm  · 
2  ·  1

(this is the part of the thread you're ignoring, and no, it's not 3.5m it's orders of magnitudes below that. I guess you don't actually care about becoming better informed and would like to continue sucking on the tit of the bankers you're so enamored by)

Jun 9, 22 3:17 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

I read what you said and stopped arguing the point. What part of that suggests I don't care?

Jun 9, 22 4:15 pm  · 
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that you keep bringing up the environment and how bad/irresponsible what i'm doing is.

Jun 9, 22 4:46 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

That's not what I have been doing. I have been challenging your art on the basis of your statements in videos and this thread. If you'd like to count the places where I've brought up the supposed irresponsibility of your art since you posted the information about cordano below on JUN 7, 22 7:28 PM I'd gladly address them individually. As it stands you're just retreading old ground.

Jun 9, 22 5:25 pm  · 
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edit: meant to submit as a reply, been a while since i used archinect

Jun 6, 22 4:35 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

This bullshit gives me a headache. As the dude famously said in the Big Lebowski "I still jerk off manually"

Jun 6, 22 5:06 pm  · 
3  · 

Interesting.

I'm not jerking off much these days, but if you have any tips let me know.

Jun 6, 22 5:23 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

All of this sounds like jerking off to me...

Jun 6, 22 5:52 pm  · 
1  · 

you must be fun in bed

Jun 6, 22 6:14 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

give the tech bro wanker enough rope and they’ll hang themselves 5 times over with their silly blockchain nonesense. 

Jun 6, 22 6:37 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

"Art should be useless." -Alexander Watanabe

Jun 6, 22 7:05 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

I'd say you've made that abundantly clear.

Jun 6, 22 7:05 pm  · 
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art vs design 101

Jun 6, 22 7:11 pm  · 
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Good night archinect!

Glad to know some places never change.

Jun 6, 22 7:23 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

Don’t forget to take your spammy jpgs with you when you leave.

Jun 6, 22 7:35 pm  · 
3  · 

Thanks for confirming the level of your reading comprehension. Also, I don't have any more as all 31,119 of them sold out over a year ago. Cheers.

Jun 6, 22 7:51 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

NS, right-click, save-as. 


Jun 6, 22 8:04 pm  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

Is that what tech douches call art these days?

Jun 6, 22 8:05 pm  · 
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@sneakypete - go and sell it. each one of the NFTs which contain the code that generates those images regularly sell for $400 each.

@nonsequitur - is this what passes for discourse on archinect these days?

Jun 6, 22 8:31 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

Don’t think you understand the meaning of discourse but good for you that you found enough suckers to waste money on this garbage. Everyone needs a
hobby.

Jun 6, 22 8:40 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

now that you've shown visual evidence of this "art," i'm decidedly convinced this is indeed a pyramid scheme.

wow.

Jun 7, 22 10:09 am  · 
1  · 
monosierra

Probably not the best examples to show here, Alex. I'm pretty sure you can easily script more complex permutations and patterns than the simple ones demonstrated in the video discussion? That question you raised about what the (at present bubbly) market wants versus what generative art can easily create was thought provoking.

Jun 7, 22 10:52 am  · 
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It's a color study over all the ways a simple set of primitives which are the building blocks of almost every digital image (a red, green and blue channel) can be added/rotated/multiplied over each other.

Anyways, as mentioned elsewhere, it was good enough to get me a panel in a Museum of Contemporary Art, so I'm fine with whatever the professional architects here think.

Thank you monosierra for making this not a complete waste of my time.

Jun 7, 22 11:47 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

God forbid we challenge you in the thread you created for self promotion.

Jun 7, 22 12:16 pm  · 
3  · 
bowling_ball

Dude comes in here looking for validation from a bunch of well educated, literate, critical-thinking strangers, and got his ass handed to him. Well done, architecters, for calling out this nonsense.

Jun 10, 22 5:42 pm  · 
 · 
axonapoplectic

How much did you pay to mint your artwork?

Jun 7, 22 11:53 am  · 
1  · 

Didn't pay anything until someone made a purchase.

I worked with a German guy (an undergrad student, in the video linked in OP) who I'd never met before. The fees to mint on the network I chose are nominal, around ~$0.50 USD.

Jun 7, 22 12:02 pm  · 
 · 
axonapoplectic

how did you market your artwork?

Jun 7, 22 3:07 pm  · 
1  · 

I hate marketing.

I communicated what I was doing on Twitter and it resonated with people. Did interviews on YouTube like the one linked above.

https://twitter.com/unsigned_a... if you're interested

Jun 7, 22 3:41 pm  · 
1  · 
axonapoplectic

You hate marketing? I think this took some marketing savvy and a fair bit of work to pull off.

Jun 7, 22 5:48 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

I hate marketing, too. That's why I make videos and Twitter posts advertising my "art." For the love of art.

Jun 7, 22 5:48 pm  · 
2  · 

@axon it's interesting to connect with other people and see how they react and perceive the work, not interested in artificial hype which is very prevalent in the nft space

Jun 7, 22 6:03 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

You’ve dug quite the pointless hole for you. Enjoy your empty pyramid.

Jun 7, 22 6:34 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Fun stuff. Hello cryptobros.

Jun 7, 22 7:00 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

The circle jerk of Twitter pointing at the circle jerk of archinect.

Jun 7, 22 7:08 pm  · 
 · 

If by circlejerk of archinect, you mean you and non sequitur with your hands wrapped around each other's non structural members, then yes I agree.

Square may or may not be present for bracing.

Jun 7, 22 7:10 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I'm glad you've dispensed with the pretense of civility and embraced your inner 4chan. Run home to your moral support Twitter followers why don't you?

Jun 7, 22 7:12 pm  · 
 · 

ah yes, the refined spirit who brings up circle jerks and then feigns outrage.

Jun 7, 22 7:15 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I was merely quoting one of your Twitter horde.

Jun 7, 22 7:17 pm  · 
 · 

Sorry Pete, they did say some mean things about you. Hope you're fulfilled in your daily activities. I suggest finding a career that doesn't require you to hate yourself.

Jun 7, 22 7:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I don't hate myself. I was interested in what you might have had to say. You ran for backup instead of sticking around and educating me (which was supposedly why you were here.) If you want to latch on to one comment, fine.

Jun 7, 22 7:23 pm  · 
 · 

Literally explained to you how much electricity is used per node, scroll up. BTW, about 10,000 nodes (not 3.5m) run the Cardano network, an analysis of which I ran last year can be found here: https://monadpool.com/cardano.html

A
s for latching on, yeah I tend to conduct myself in a way that doesn't require me to hate myself, so it was a pretty impactful statement on your part.


Jun 7, 22 7:28 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Ignorance is bliss.

Jun 7, 22 7:31 pm  · 
 · 

Yes, clearly after doing an undergrad degree in literature, 2 masters in architecture, working 3 years in R&D in Michigan, then 3 years doing the same in Mumbai and 3 years in Tokyo where I taught myself AI/ML development and now retiring in Portugal at 36 - I'm an extremely ignorant individual. Please tell me more oh sneakiest of pete's on how to become more self aware and come to the the great understanding and accomplishments that you have.

Jun 7, 22 7:37 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Why so defensive?

Jun 7, 22 7:38 pm  · 
 · 

or go back to revit and finish those bathroom details. if you want to release an NFT collection of CAD Monkeys i usually look down my nose at JPG NFTs, but i'll make an exception in your case because of the bond we've formed

Jun 7, 22 7:39 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Good talk, bud.

Jun 7, 22 7:47 pm  · 
 · 

Good luck Pete. Enjoy the loathing of self, if that gets too painful, just try to focus on the finance bros you're dependent on.

Jun 7, 22 7:50 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

That comment really got to you, didn't it?

Jun 7, 22 7:51 pm  · 
 · 

Extremely alarming and sad to think that someone could be so defeated and resigned to that existence.

Jun 7, 22 7:54 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Or you might have missed the point.

Jun 7, 22 7:55 pm  · 
 · 
square.

Yes, clearly after doing an undergrad degree in literature, 2 masters in architecture, working 3 years in R&D in Michigan, then 3 years doing the same in Mumbai and 3 years in Tokyo where I taught myself AI/ML development and now retiring in Portugal at 36 - I'm an extremely ignorant individual. Please tell me more oh sneakiest of pete's on how to become more self aware and come to the the great understanding and accomplishments that you have.

not doing yourself any favors here, other than reinforcing the impression of someone who leeches value from and incredibly fucked up economic system. you seem proud of the fact and are equating economic success with a sense of greater individual moral value than others (gross); happy you can retire with the money you siphoned, though i've just been given more evidence (yet again) that the rest of us need to continue to fight to change the system that makes this excess possible.

Jun 9, 22 10:52 am  · 
1  · 

i came here in good faith to share a creative endeavor i've undertaken and got (almost) nothing but low grade internet troll responses from intellectually incurious forum trolls, so forgive me if my patience is worn out.

Jun 9, 22 3:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You got stiff pushback and pretty quickly started throwing out insults. Then you called in your Twitter posse. Not sure you have any high ground here.

Jun 9, 22 4:16 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

Someone should turn this thread into a NFT.  

Jun 7, 22 12:13 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

There would be a sick irony if I could sell it as an NFT for more than his collection is worth. But I have better things to do with my time than try to leverage the scam of the moment to get rich quick. This dude wins the lottery and tells everyone it's the best way to make a living.

Jun 7, 22 12:18 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

what about NFTs of pictures of bridges? Then we can add new life to that classic idiom.

Jun 7, 22 12:27 pm  · 
 · 

Do it, wish you luck. You'll probably just sit around shitposting on archinect though.

Jun 7, 22 2:23 pm  · 
 · 
square.

^ more meaningful than running a digital faux-art ponzi scheme

Jun 7, 22 2:25 pm  · 
2  · 
sameolddoctor

Guys, DO NOT FEED THE TROLL...

Jun 7, 22 6:05 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Why? The troll’s bad car salesman jive is powering my bitcoin windmill.

Jun 7, 22 6:31 pm  · 
 · 

You got one thing right, there are several people in this thread tilting at windmills.

Jun 7, 22 6:36 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

What about just a lazy lean?

Jun 7, 22 6:37 pm  · 
 · 

Lazy (in the lethargic sense) is probably the one adjective I wouldn't use to describe your positions: good to see my some of the architectural vigor of studio spring forth in your positions.

Jun 7, 22 6:41 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Ah, negative. But thanks for trying. Hawk your shit in your own closed circles. They’ve already invested in it, so they need to keep digging to get out.

Jun 7, 22 6:44 pm  · 
 · 

Fundamentally misunderstood what I was attempting to do.

As i've written many times over, the collection sold out a year ago, I have nothing to hawk or sell you. I thought some architects would enjoy thinking about a new sort of materiality, that's all.

Apologies for wasting your, but mostly my, time.

Jun 7, 22 6:52 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Negative, again. We’re all well aware of what you’re attempting to do. Sorry, we’re just not that thirsty for koolaid right now.

Jun 7, 22 6:54 pm  · 
 · 
nabrU

I don't know enough about NFT's other than how to take the technology apart like anything similar.

1. Some NFT implementations are inherently reliant on JPEG image formats? As a buyer of said NFT's I'd ask and require some proof of originality and quality. JPEG does not meet that bar. 

2. TIFF are still reproducible, still the same problem

3. If you make it, we will break it.

4. It's a dogshit tech bro interpretation and valuation of art and proponents of doing are advertising themselves as a target.

Jun 7, 22 7:35 pm  · 
1  · 

As explained above, i'm neither reliant on JPGs, or TIFFs.

If you've ever used Grasshopper or any other parametric modeler you probably know that the files are much smaller than a normal CAD model as it's just storing a few numbers and operations on those numbers to generate the entire model.

This allows the entire instruction set to fit "on chain" and for the NFTs i made not to just be "links to JPGs"

I found the process rather fun trying to figure out something expressive and visually interesting that would fit within 16KB, reminded me a bit of studio days and how constraints can be freeing to the design process.


Jun 7, 22 7:45 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Alex, don’t pay the haters any mind.   And do yourself a favor and get out of this pit of snakes.   They are just unhappy people pretending to be righteous…and as soon as you put debate then they will cry like little girls for your removal.  

Jun 8, 22 2:33 am  · 
 · 

Thank you jla, I used to spend a lot of time on here back in grad school so I'm not toooooo surprised.

Jun 8, 22 4:13 am  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Alex, jla is not the kind of supporter you want. It’ll make you go from (lucky) MLM hack to murder lovin pundit in a flash. Not a good look.

Jun 8, 22 7:56 am  · 
1  ·  1

shit. guilty by association.

knew i should have caught up on the goings on of archinect between asking for m.arch portfolio advice 10 years ago and now.

Jun 8, 22 7:59 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

These folks on here are anti freedom snobs….they hate liberty, they hate the unregulated freedom of crypto and nuts…because they distrust their fellow citizens…because they think that they are better than. These are elitists with authoritarian tendencies.

Jun 8, 22 12:11 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

nfts, not nuts* damn autocorrect

Jun 8, 22 12:11 pm  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

jLAX no one is hating on crypto or "freedom" here, we are just saying that the NFTs the OP is presenting are shit.

Jun 8, 22 12:22 pm  · 
 · 
square.

this is the irony of the right which bemoans cancel culture but then falsely equivocates criticism with "hating freedom and liberty." quite the tautology, but to be expected from an ideology with no ideas other than opposition to things. 

Jun 8, 22 12:49 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Non was conflating the liberty to own a firearm with the support for murder. It’s Like saying that those who oppose alcohol prohibition support drunken spousal abuse.

Jun 8, 22 1:48 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I’m not on “the right”. I’m a liberal in the classical sense.

Jun 8, 22 1:49 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

But yeah, even bill Maher is a right winger now. If you don’t drink from the tit of msnbc and denounce that men can’t give birth you are right winger

Jun 8, 22 1:51 pm  · 
 · 
proto

oh, look...someone is airing his personal grievances & is making the thread about himself & his extreme politics again...he clearly wants to get the thread nuked by posting irrelevant stupid shit because he certainly knows better than that by now, right? ...right?

Jun 8, 22 2:05 pm  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

jla, must be getting real tiring always being wrong all the time.

Jun 8, 22 2:36 pm  · 
1  ·  1
square.

people still watch cable news?

Jun 8, 22 2:52 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Non, I’ve actually been correct about 98% of all these debates…and time has proven me to be correct…and fortunately the masses are waking up from the lefts lunacy…and it will show the next election cycle…

Jun 8, 22 3:22 pm  · 
 · 
square.

never trust anyone who thinks they are right 98% of the time

Jun 8, 22 3:27 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

proto, the anti crypto and anti nft sentiment is not a problem…it’s the rabid tribalism, rudeness, and intolerance thats the problem in here. It’s not an interesting place anymore. Just an echo chamber.

Jun 8, 22 3:29 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

I can say with 98% certainty that your comment is 100% wrong.

Jun 8, 22 3:59 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Square, among normal people that’s correct. When dealing with woke sloganeer parrots 98% isn’t even that good.

Jun 8, 22 4:10 pm  · 
 · 

Having a tough day eh x-jla? Don't worry, it will end soon.

Jun 8, 22 4:42 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Eh, just dropped in to see what everyone was howling about…

Jun 8, 22 5:56 pm  · 
 · 

Why? Nobody here trusts anything you post. I think you're looking for some type of perverse validation or recognition.

Jun 8, 22 6:02 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Just for shits and giggles.

Jun 8, 22 9:12 pm  · 
 · 

That's really, really sad and pathetic.

Jun 9, 22 11:54 am  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

https://www.theverge.com/23148...

Jun 8, 22 12:38 pm  · 
 · 
square.

The current state of NFT art is best described as “visual dogshit,” the artist and provocateur Brad Troemel argued in a recent Instagram slideshow. Nobody actually cares what these images look like, Troemel said, so long as they can be produced quickly in large quantities, while also avoiding risky artistic gestures that might alienate crypto bros.

love it

Jun 8, 22 12:50 pm  · 
2  · 
monosierra

Great article. It touches on what Alex W mentioned - that the vast majority of NFTs are simply images that have nothing to do with blockchain but are simply hosted there. They are basically collectible stickers or baseball cards - no one is calling those art. They are commercial collectibles with some value to their collectors if there is a trading market. That's it. Now, there are artists working on new means of creating art. What that eventually turns into is up for debate - and their artistic merit is unclear, outside their provenance.

As basic experiments - seeds, if you will - to generate a copious amount of images for selling, I suppose the NFTs demonstrated by Alex W did their job. They can be quickly created, they do leverage some qualities intrinsic to their being on the blockchain, and they are a bit thought provoking. IIRC, that is the extant of their artistic goals in this 101 experiment. Are they pretty to look at? Do they demand the viewer to examine them further and present questions about the larger context they exist in? Kinda, but the former is subjective AF.

Jun 8, 22 3:08 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

there's nothing new being made on this thread; the image made was possible to make before the advent of nfts.. it's really a pretty simple mixing of color combinations. the "novelty" here is the input, not the means, is new and flashy, but the end product brings nothing new to the table in terms of art. like the article said, the most interesting thing about this is the meta-conversation around it, which i don't find interesting at all.

Jun 8, 22 3:17 pm  · 
 · 
bowling_ball

to be fair, square, that's true of all modern art.

Jun 10, 22 6:25 pm  · 
 · 
square.

what do you mean? this is too broad of a generalization for me; i think there are plenty of examples of modern art that emphasize technique (brush strokes, collage, etc) or content, and which viewers find compelling beyond an internal, inaccessible conversation.

my main point really was addressing the op's claim that they have brought something new to the art world through the specific work, when in reality, they have made an image that isn't new or innovative aesthetically, at all. and what is art if not primarily regarding aesthetics..

Jun 11, 22 4:15 pm  · 
1  · 

Art is not about what something looks like but what it evokes in the viewer/person experiencing the piece. You can have the "same thing" produced or presented in a different way and tap into/create a completely different set of meanings.

Jun 13, 22 9:22 pm  · 
 · 
Jay1122

Just a random layman passing by. I thought that NFT thing is like some sort of digital certification to make the digital asset uniquely identified. Same shit as cryptocurrency to me. Assign some random shit value. Hoping to flip for profit. Of course, some made big money, some lost all their savings. Just congrats on those that made big bucks. And those who lost their savings, you deserve it. Didn't that TerraLuna coin just collapsed a while back? Quite a few lost their savings and wanted to commit suicide.

Jun 8, 22 5:31 pm  · 
1  · 

Yup. I've heard interviews with people involved in both NFT's and Crypto. About both they said that they were actually worthless, are experiencing a bubble that will burst, and only a small fraction of people 'investing' in them will make money. The rest will loose any money they've 'invested'.

Jun 8, 22 6:00 pm  · 
1  · 

People have been saying that since I was an architecture grad student in the early 2010s.

Jun 10, 22 3:54 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

ok, so you say you retired.  did you abandon the community you created, or did you not really retire and remain vested in your nft?       are you selling a spot on a real blockchain like ether, or did you create your own blockchain without anything of value connected?      you get it's not the picture of the bored ape people are buying right?    you get why that nft has value that yours doesn't?      what value have you added to the people who invested in your project?


Jun 8, 22 7:07 pm  · 
 · 

It's not a "project" it's an artwork, and anyone who supported my vision knows that there is no "utility" to be gleaned from owning a piece.

I'm made it on a blockchain which allows for other native assets to be created on it.

Re: picture of bored ape, and value, I'm guessing you didn't read the thread because that's almost literally what I described above.

Jun 9, 22 9:12 am  · 
 · 

Alexander, Let me guess . . .

 All of your original NFT's are sold. 

 Those original NFT's are still being traded / sold. 

You own some of those original NFT's as such you have a  amount of your money still in Crypto. 

 Some Crypto has recently loss a large a amount of their value.

Since older NFT's are worth more money you're actively trying to 'hype' up your original NFT's to increase the value of the ones you own.

Jun 9, 22 3:39 pm  · 
 · 

No.

I am not happy with how the space has developed in the past year, and was hoping to get other creative intellectually critical people involved in the space as it's been completely overrun by opportunistic monkey jpgs.

Jun 9, 22 3:43 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

bored ape isn't an artwork. "on a blockchain" is that blockchain ether?

Jun 9, 22 7:46 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

He uses Cardano if I am not mistaken.

Jun 9, 22 9:34 pm  · 
1  · 

Alexander - just to clarify -

You don't own any of your own NFT's?

You don't own any Crypto?

You're unhappy with the business ethics of NFT's and Crypto?

You're trying to get more ethical people involved in NFT's and Crypto in change their current business practices? 

Jun 10, 22 10:09 am  · 
 · 

Hello Chad,

I own ~300 of my own NFTs (out of a total of 31,119).

I own "a lot" of crypto, and no longer need to work as a result, although I am pursuing my own interests since August of last year when I quit my job.

I don't really care about the business ethics of NFTs, as I don't care about the business of NFTs, I'm mostly interested in them as a medium for "A"rt.

I started being involved in crypto in 2013 or so (detailed in my original post) and left in 2014 or so to focus on my career. I know that most crypto projects are pure shit and scams to separate people from their money, but that doesn't mean that all of them are. Probably a similar percent of the built environment is "A"rchitecture.


Jun 10, 22 1:24 pm  · 
 · 

Alexander - 

So when you said no above what were you specifically saying no to?

 All of your original NFT's are sold.

This is a yes. 

Those original NFT's are still being traded / sold. 

This is a yes

You own some of those original NFT's as such you have a  amount of your money still in Crypto

This is a yes. 

 Some Crypto has recently loss a large a amount of their value.

This is a yes. 

Since older NFT's are worth more money you're actively trying to 'hype' up your original NFT's to increase the value of the ones you own.

Is the no?  If so what part is incorrect? 

Jun 10, 22 1:56 pm  · 
 · 
square.

I don't really care about the business ethics of NFTs


you've already made this abundantly clear

Jun 10, 22 2:17 pm  · 
 · 

(because I'm not conducting a business, and I don't self flagellate myself if other people who happen to be operating in a similar space to me happen to be doing questionable things there, you know, like the construction industry)

Jun 10, 22 3:11 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Your whataboutism is showing. Never a strong argument. Two things can be bad, that doesn't make one of them right.

Jun 10, 22 3:21 pm  · 
 · 

It's "just" art, on a very low carbon footprint chain. I've found a way to explore my creative/plastic urge without enriching bankers or destroying the environment.

Jun 10, 22 3:53 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Have you, though?

Jun 10, 22 4:08 pm  · 
2  · 

Alexander - it appears you are trying to increase interest in your original NFT's. This will increase the worth of the 300 you own. As such you have a vested interest in continuing the business practices of NFT's and Crypto.

 I'm thinking you lost a bunch of money when the Crypto market crashed and you're trying to make that money back.  That or you're just trying to make more money by promoting your NFT's. 

Jun 12, 22 6:41 pm  · 
1  · 

Hello Chad,

My net worth is north of $1m usd at this point, and i'm fine, so I don't really care what crypto is doing. I live a simple lifestyle on the interest of my capital that is actually LESS than what I used to earn as a salaried employee, but that is fine because I don't have to work for someone else anymore. I appreciate your concern for my situation.

Jun 13, 22 2:38 pm  · 
 · 
monosierra

For better or worse, this is turning into one of the longest and most heated threads in a while!

Jun 9, 22 10:58 am  · 
1  · 
sameolddoctor

It deserves to be made into a blockchain-powered, crypto-funded, bullshit-driven NFT!

Jun 9, 22 11:18 am  · 
1  · 
x-jla

I honestly don’t understand how nfts work. I also don’t give a flying fuck how other adults spent their money. You lose you lose. You win you win. Stay off my lawn.

Jun 9, 22 11:51 am  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

So, essentially you are agreeing with us JLAX

Jun 9, 22 12:02 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

In so far as not understanding it, yes. Im not bothered by it like some on here seem to be though…mainly because I don’t feel that I have any say or interest in telling other grownups what to do.

Jun 13, 22 6:07 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Telling other grownups what to do is all you fucking do here, xlax.

Jun 15, 22 10:02 am  · 
 · 


irony of a bunch of architects criticizing blockchains for its energy consumption

Jun 10, 22 3:14 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

You make a lot of noise about being early and yet you refuse to help the problem with your early arrival. Blaming us for the building industry's waste is not remotely the same. It's been wasteful for generation, and we're actively making efforts to help curtail that. Are you?

Jun 10, 22 3:21 pm  · 
 · 

The most ethical thing you could do is stop contributing to building new buildings.

Jun 10, 22 3:51 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Reductio ad absurdum. I'm trying to change the system from within. You're sitting here throwing stones through the walls of your glass house.

Jun 10, 22 4:07 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

We sorta kinda need some sort of material production and some sort of construction tho... you know, for shelter and whatnot. No one actually needs any of this blockchain NFT coin jive, so not really a useful argument from that POV.

Jun 10, 22 4:21 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I live in the metaverse.

Jun 10, 22 4:24 pm  · 
 · 
square.

imagine thinking a basic need like shelter is equivalent in any way to a "novel" form of encrypting, not even making, digital art

Jun 10, 22 4:26 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I don't like most art. I think that's true for most people. But I don't think that means the art should not exist. I'm not even saying Alex's art should not exist. But I am failing to find a compelling idea in it, which is why my general disgust with crypto and blockchain is coming to the fore.

Jun 10, 22 5:00 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

I don’t think I can squint hard enough to find “art” in the nft colour swirls presented here… and I’m the type to argue that anything can be/is art.

Jun 10, 22 5:12 pm  · 
 · 
baboo.fei

Love how worked up people get over this stuff.

Excessive liquidity desperate for yield + Web3 FOMO. The 75bps hike by year end should calm things down.

At least it's not toxic RMBS this time... seemingly.

Jun 10, 22 5:33 pm  · 
 · 
bowling_ball

Are you ok? One of us is having a stroke

Jun 10, 22 6:30 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I believe what they mean is that rich people have too much money and are using crypto to put it in. If the fed hikes the rates by 75 points they believe it'll fix it. At least it isn't 2008 again.

Jun 10, 22 7:04 pm  · 
 · 
baboo.fei

Thank you for the translation. TBH I doubt the tightening will end the frenzy completely but hopefully the crypto bros will pipe down a bit and I don't have to see NFT-related bs everywhere I go for a while...

Jun 10, 22 11:12 pm  · 
 · 
baboo.fei

.

Jun 10, 22 11:12 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

i think i picked up in here that the people who bought the nfts now have a vote in where the project goes.   because it's a project, it's not art.  you think you're selling your "art."  that's fine in the sense that "art" is a place to park money.  i'm pretty sure nobody would invest in your nft for any traditional notion of "art," like a statue or painting that has its own intrinsic value/ scarcity.  it's not because you're a good designer.  when you buy an nft, you buy a spot on a blockchain.  when someone buys the image you sell them, what do they have to be proud of?  not an oil painting.  not even something unique.  it can be copied as much as they want and sent wherever they want.  the value isn't the image, it's the spot on the block chain.  i think where you failed is that you didn't understand this was an investment.  sounds like you pocketed the money instead of reinvesting it into your project?  sounds like you care less about your "art" than any of us, because you had the opportunity to support it and chose not to.


Jun 10, 22 8:11 pm  · 
2  · 

Sorry not sure where you picked the idea that they have a vote in where the work goes, as this study is done. Also people knew they were just getting art and it wasn't a "project"

Additionally, "the spot on the blockchain" is the entire point. If a normal NFT is a deed to a piece of real estate (but not the house/building/land) these are at least the blueprints (and the means to turn those blueprints) into the property referenced in the deed.

Jun 11, 22 5:01 am  · 
 · 

Alexander - it appears you are trying to increase interest in your original NFT's. This will increase the worth of the 300 you own. As such you have a vested interest in continuing the business practices of NFT's and Crypto. 

 I'm thinking you lost a bunch of money when the Crypto market crashed and you're trying to make that money back. That or you're just trying to make more money by promoting your NFT's.

Jun 13, 22 10:17 am  · 
 · 

Chad Miller - i replied to you below, I don't know why you keep repeating the same comment in the same thread, or sometimes across threads.

Jun 13, 22 9:20 pm  · 
 · 
z1111

Ok, I suffered through enough of that video to understand what you are doing.


An observation and a question.


Your "artistic" decisions seem to be arbitrary.


What does your "art" mean?

Jun 12, 22 8:42 pm  · 
1  · 

It's really no different than a sculptor looking at a block of marble and trying to understand what not just that specific piece wants to be, but marble in general. "What does the brick want to be?" is the question that I am playing with.

Jun 13, 22 2:42 pm  · 
 · 
square.

spoken like a true huckster- this one made me lol

Jun 13, 22 3:01 pm  · 
1  ·  1

spoken like a jaded architect who has spent too much time on bathroom detail duty.

Jun 13, 22 3:04 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

spoken like a time-share salesman, Alex. No one wants what you're selling.

Jun 13, 22 3:08 pm  · 
1  ·  1

Alexander - it appears you are trying to increase interest in your original NFT's. This will increase the worth of the 300 you own. As such you have a vested interest in continuing the business practices of NFT's and Crypto.

 I'm thinking you lost a bunch of money when the Crypto market crashed and you're trying to make that money back. That or you're just trying to make more money by promoting your NFT's.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken. 


Jun 13, 22 3:15 pm  · 
1  · 
z1111

A brick spoke to Kahn and said it wanted to be an arch. What did your work say it wanted to be?

Jun 13, 22 3:26 pm  · 
 · 
z1111

People have been doing what you have been doing for a long time. The difference is that they come back with an insight. You have none and are therefore not making art. It is meaningless form making. Imo you are a con man. You come here with a get rich quick scheme hoping to dupe some dissaffected individuals into a pyramid scheme.

Jun 13, 22 3:37 pm  · 
2  · 

@nonsequitor - you're literally wrong. thousands of individuals have bought them, from me and from each other. Also I've managed to convince at a national Museum of Contemporary Art of the relevance of my work, whose opinion I value slightly more than yours.

@chad - i don't care if anyone here buys my work, it wouldn't affect my life materially in any way

Jun 13, 22 6:07 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Alex, try to keep up. We’re not buying the art angle you’re hawking. I’m well aware that plenty of fools have sunk real money into this scam.

Jun 13, 22 6:14 pm  · 
 · 

@z1111 - probably the best critique ("meaningless form making") yet - I don't find artists explanation of deeper meaning of their work very relevant or tasteful, i've already stepped over that line a bit too far by explaining the work as much as i have which is a conceit i've made due to the work being as different as it is and the audience being literally illiterate as to its means and methods.

Jun 13, 22 6:16 pm  · 
 · 
z1111

Real artists know what they are doing and why they are doing it. What does the equation y=x squared + c want to be? A conic section, a parabola to be exact. If you can't discuss your work on this level of minimum insight you have a lot of temerity to complain no one is taking it seriously.

Jun 13, 22 7:01 pm  · 
 · 

Again, I agree z1111. However no one is really engaging with the work beyond attacking crypto as a pyramid scam/bad for the environment, the later of which I've shown is not the case, and the former of which is subjectively up for debate and quickly devolves into notions of "what is money?"

the reason I came here was not to sell more NFTs (again, sold out over a year ago) but to interact with people like yourself who have some level of abstract thinking accessible to them and are interested in materiality/form-making.


Jun 13, 22 7:12 pm  · 
 · 

Finding this pretty interesting, DMd you as this is not a place for productive conversation

Jun 13, 22 2:42 pm  · 
 · 

thank you jeremy, check is in the mail.

hopefully this will lead to an inflection point in the conversation on archinect.

Jun 13, 22 2:58 pm  · 
 · 
square.

doubtful, the way those crypto prices are looking

Jun 13, 22 3:00 pm  · 
 · 

crypto prices and artistic pursuit are orthogonal to each other, but thanks

Jun 13, 22 3:04 pm  · 
 · 

Not when the art in question is only purchased with crypto. Nice try though.

Jun 13, 22 3:55 pm  · 
1  ·  1

if a painting is bought with coffee beans, does it affect the meaning of the painting? maybe it's all you crypto-skeptics who are ascribing too much power to crypto.

Jun 13, 22 6:05 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

If you bought a bazooka with blow jobs I wouldn’t care…because unlike these elitists I don’t believe in telling others what to do. The US is infested with miserable latent hall monitors. They all need wedgies asap.

Jun 13, 22 6:10 pm  · 
 · 

So x-jla - is that how you've obtained all of your firearms - by performing sexual favors? Explains a lot. There is nothing wrong with that. You do you, or whoever you want to do.

Jun 13, 22 6:58 pm  · 
2  · 

Alexander wrote: 

"if a painting is bought with coffee beans, does it affect the meaning of the painting? maybe it's all you crypto-skeptics who are ascribing too much power to crypto."

It wouldn't affect the meaning of the painting.  

Now if the coffee beans used were bad for the environment, unethical, used to support illegal activities and basically a giant pyramid scheme then I'd have serious doubts about the people using them a currency.  That would associate the artwork with all of those bad things and the bad people who engaged in the sale.  

Rather simple. 

Jun 13, 22 6:59 pm  · 
1  · 
z1111

No one is telling him what to do. He came here ostensibly to talk about his work and steadfastly has refused to do so in any meaningful way.

Jun 13, 22 7:04 pm  · 
1  ·  1

you can't really talk with monkeys playing with their feces

Jun 13, 22 7:06 pm  · 
 · 
proto

i don't really have a dog in this fight, but it's irritating to watch unfold in this space...so, i'm asking: at this point...why are you here exactly?

this trolling/bickering/whatever isn't particularly interesting or edifying...each of us is smarter than this


Jun 13, 22 7:19 pm  · 
1  · 

agreed and apologize, i've tried to reply whenever possible to actual inquiries but most of the conversation is basically "CRYPTO BAD FOR ENVIRONMENT AND PYRAMID SCAM" and not particularly interesting (or accurate)

Jun 13, 22 7:33 pm  · 
1  · 
z1111

I have a theory. I have given your work the benefit of doubt and asked a number of times for you to explain it in an attempt to enter into a serious discussion as to its artistic merits. You have not tried to communicate in good faith. The only conclusion I can draw from that is that you have no idea and are trying to crowd source some kind of meaning for it.

Jun 13, 22 8:07 pm  · 
1  · 

I have discussed at length the format and what I am doing, but I don't think any artist just explicitly says "this means X" so I have not. What's the point of making something if you're just going to explain it with words?

Jun 13, 22 9:18 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Plenty of artists have used words to explain their art. Many, many, many.

Jun 13, 22 10:36 pm  · 
1  · 
z1111

Piano Man is a song about playing in bars and not going anywhere doing that. The melody doesn't have a bridge. It doesn't go anywhere. That is the point. You are using logical processes to make stuff but it doesn't go anywhere. I can tell that there is no internal dialog happening between you and the stuff you make. There are basically 2 ways to make art. One can rearrange things that are already known in unique ways or one can invent a new form of expression and discover what it means. You really haven't discovered a new form of expression but for talking purposes let's say you have. Now unless you can either communicate the intent verbally or make it's meaning clear in it's expression you have only done 1/2 the job. Just explaining how you made something doesn't mean anything.

Jun 13, 22 11:02 pm  · 
2  · 

Again, agreed - point/intention-less work is just craft not art. One of my architecture professors, Malcolm McCullough, said in a lecture, "some people world argue today that if you don't know at least one programming language you're illiterate." At the time I was 25, in grad school and didn't know any programming (part of why the constant "tech bro" pejoratives are making me chuckle). At first I got offended because I consider myself well read and educated. Then I took some time to understand what he was saying and started to learn about programming and computation. In time I came to agree with his statement, I don't think everyone can or should code, but not understanding it limits your ability too participate and comprehend so much of modern life so as to render one functionally illiterate.

Jun 14, 22 12:09 am  · 
1  · 
square.

but not understanding it limits your ability too participate and comprehend so much of modern life so as to render one functionally illiterate.

so, one must be educated to your level of code-based erudition in order to really understand the art. right.

Jun 14, 22 9:48 am  · 
 · 

do you think the general public understands or appreciates architecture? does that have any bearing on its success or failure as a discipline?

OT: genuinely surprised at the lack of self-reflexivity and awareness of many of the posters in this thread. All I can say is I didn't study architecture with people like you, and I'm glad for that.

Jun 14, 22 11:08 am  · 
1  · 
square.

i don't make such sweeping assumptions about "the public," but again, this is a false equivalency (we've already been here)- architecture/building is primarily concerned with utility, not aesthetics.

but, what does this have to do with your claim that everyone needs to understand code, with the assumption being that if one does not understand code, one cannot really appreciate whatever it is you're doing? you're speaking in an endless loop of tautologies and irrelevant questions about architecture, and i will point out once again you still have not answered the question of what actually makes your art artistically valuable or different than anything else that has already been done.

Jun 14, 22 11:14 am  · 
 · 

1. I guess we have different understandings of architecture, not surprising since you are presumably a practicing architect and i bailed after getting my degrees. Given that the utility of many buildings is perfectly perfunctory sans architects I tend to think that architecture is about more than just utility.

2. re: code and understanding, just because the general public doesn't understand or get architecture, doesn't mean it doesn't have worth. Just because you don't get my work, doesn't mean it doesn't have worth: no worth to you, sure, but I'd argue that has more to do with you than the work.

3. "what makes your art artistically valuable" - what a strange question to ask, I wouldn't attempt to answer it. I've never bought my own work so I don't know why people value it. I was interested in making it, not valuing it.

4. "what makes it different than anything else" - Humans engage in cultural production. We create new technologies. Those technologies have different applications in medicine, warfare, commerce and yes, art. Oftentimes, art leads the way in showing the other areas the outlines of a technology and how it can be used: think gunpowder being used for fireworks by the Chinese and harquebusiers by the Europeans.


Jun 14, 22 11:30 am  · 
 · 
square.

Just because you don't get my work, doesn't mean it doesn't have worth: no worth to you, sure, but I'd argue that has more to do with you than the work.

I was interested in making it, not valuing it.

again, tautologies, substituting worth and value, value and worth.

i'm also suspect of anyone doing anything, especially creative pursuits, and being totally blind about the worth it brings to their lives - otherwise why do it? the act of doing something you're not compelled to do assumes it is worth it already, but here goes the circle again..

(ps i said primarily, which implies secondary, tertiary, etc concerns, as opposed to only, be sure to cite correctly..)

Jun 14, 22 11:52 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Alexander, it would be nice if you could lay off of the ad homimens for at least two or three replies.

Jun 14, 22 4:35 pm  · 
1  · 
Jeremy

Alright so I got around to watching the video - apt precedent with Sol Lewitt, which I am surprised has not been tied to this sort of thing before (well maybe he has and I just dont read anything about this stuff). I do find the idea of the NFT as blockchain embedded code rather than a linked image a bit more interesting then the typical NFT, and the simple yet leading to complex results algorithm is pretty nice. I still dont see why anyone buys them other than getting caught up in NFT hype, but obviously they have and maybe we should be looking at the NFT space more as a distribution concept to replace the gallery system (which if you look at it is just as scammy and financially ridiculous as the current NFT market) than focusing on the pump and dump scam side of it. Given time those things should filter out (maybe?). Or maybe any attemps to make 'serious' works will filter out. Like the art world itself, more likely those things will just continue to coexist. I am curious about the proof of stake method, what blockchain is that and how did you vet that? Sounds like it makes a huge difference to work only within those parameters. I have been interested in some generative art lately, mostly via machine learning AI and programming synth emulators but I am not really a programmer of any kind. Seems like it makes sense to use the NFT space as distribution for appropriate works, though I do think after its initial blow up it may fade away into an embarrassing memory after people get past the novelty of it and when resale values are no longer going up and up. Gotta say the potential for actually selling digital works interests me, generally things I make have little to no sale value and that's fine, but if there is a market for it right now why not participate? One thing that stuck out is (if I understand correctly) the first NFT of the collection contains code that the subsequent NFTs then refer to in order to run - why not just include the complete code in each NFT so they are self contained? Or am I misrepresenting it?

Jun 13, 22 9:00 pm  · 
1  · 

Great questions Jeremy!

I called out the code and stored it in the "first" nft because one of the first things I learned in programming was that if you are copying and pasting you're probably doing something wrong.

Instead of wastefully storing the same thing on the chain 31,118 times, I inserted a new piece at the beginning of the collection. Then, every other piece in the collection references this original piece, and basically passes it its parameters/arguments to instantiate itself. Doing this greatly saves space to the tune of ~100 lines of code * 31,118 copies. I feel it also takes advantage of the intrinsic properties of a blockchain as a means for storing and retrieving information.

While I could have just put this code in the first piece in the collection of 31,118, it felt strange to doubly load it as both a piece and the generator of all the other pieces, so I explicitly pulled out this functionality into its own piece (making the collection 31,119 pieces), which passes itself NO arguments, producing a black image.

In the past I've explained this to non-architects as similar to how architects pull columns out of walls to separate the load bearing capacity of the structure from the delineation/partitioning of space.

Hope that helps.

Jun 13, 22 9:13 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Who owns the first NFT? Do you consider it to be more valuable than the rest?

Jun 13, 22 10:36 pm  · 
 · 

A random German guy ended up with it.

Jun 13, 22 11:40 pm  · 
 · 

I don't consider the value of art to be all that interesting or relevant. There are ways that the other pieces could have existed without it, but it is a clever flourish that I think adds greatly to the work.

Jun 13, 22 11:43 pm  · 
 · 
square.

I don't consider the value of art to be all that interesting or relevant.

actual name of this thread:

why would anyone pay for a link to a JPG?

Jun 14, 22 11:16 am  · 
 · 

A rhetorical device and a point of departure for further inquiry.

If you insist, he was asking for a relative positioning of value of one piece to the rest.

If that's interesting to you, i can report that the owner has turned down offers equivalent ~$100,000 USD so I guess they (and the offer makers) perceive the value to be more than the individual pieces of the rest of the collection.

My usual comment on that matter is that the black 00000 unsig only holds their interest because of the rest of the collection, if it didn't exist, and didn't hold the interest of others, none of them would care to own this singular piece.

Jun 14, 22 11:37 am  · 
 · 
Jeremy

what about the proof of stake question, care to talk more about that?

I’d imagine a lot of the trick is how to actually find buyers for these, how did you connect to buyers? Have to put a lot of effort into that end of it?In the art world, about half the work or more is the marketing end of things to get work shown and out in front of people. I could could create and list a bunch of NFts and I doubt anyone would buy then I haven’t built any hype or story along with them

Jun 13, 22 10:13 pm  · 
 · 

Proof of stake is something that has been talked about in blockchains for over a decade now that people thought would be accomplished quickly but proved to be quite difficult to implement. A few chains have done so now, the one that interested me is Cardano, which is built on top of peer reviewed academic papers and formal methods.

Jun 13, 22 11:47 pm  · 
 · 

As for marketing, I don't really value that skill set after working in R&D the past decade and interacting with people from that field. What I am comfortable with is communicating my ideas, which enough people found meaningful and worth supporting to want to acquire some of my work for themself. I had no pedigree in art or other tradeable distinction which would meaningfully affect the success of the work so I tend to attribute what success it has managed to the ideas contained therein.

Jun 13, 22 11:54 pm  · 
 · 

Sorry on mobile, enter causes the reply to be submitted and edit isn't appearing. Practically speaking most people found the work on Twitter where these things are discussed. You can see some of the discussion and the people who enjoy the work on this account: https://twitter.com/unsigned_algo

Jun 13, 22 11:57 pm  · 
 · 

Realized I didn't really expand on the proof of stake bit. There are lots of youtube videos on it, and i've touched on it elsewhere, but the crux of it is Proof of Work runs on entropy - doing difficult math problems to solve a puzzle that once solved is easily verified by others. The winner (the first person to solve the puzzle) has the right to mint the next block and gets a small reward for doing so.

Proof of Stake runs more on game theory, keeping actors in a system honest through shared incentives to behave honestly. Because of this property, it doesn't rely on large amounts of electricity to solve problems but ownership in the underlying protocol. This means it can run on small embedded systems that don't use more power than a laptop/tablet.

Jun 14, 22 11:57 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"The problem is that when it comes to digital assets like the online collage by Beeple, the creation of an NFT is an attempt to create artificial scarcity where there is none. Anyone can create an NFT for a digital asset, even if there’s no actual asset behind it! The owner of the NFT may state that they hold the “original” token for the asset, however, the asset itself is not controlled in any way by the NFT.

The supposed value of the NFT is in the idea that this unique digital certificate of ownership is valuable in its own right. However in relation to the actual digital asset, whether it is a .jpeg photo file or another piece of digital media, these assets can be freely and easily copied and distributed by anyone on the internet. And unlike a physical asset like a one-off oil painting, for example, each copy of a digital artwork is exactly the same as the original! At the end of the day these artworks are just data and information which can be duplicated with the click of a mouse!

Indeed it has been pointed out by many commentators that NFTs don’t even offer any additional rights beyond standard copyright!

These NFTs are just another get-rich-quick scheme that has been driven to stratospheric heights by speculation and social media hype. There is no actual value in the NFTs themselves and the bubble around them is merely a reflection of the irrationality of the capitalist system."


Casino Capitalism 


Jun 14, 22 6:01 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Marxism In The Meta verse

Jun 14, 22 6:19 am  · 
 · 

Everything on a distributed ledger is a message/payload (A) + a signature (B). The typical example is "Alice sends Bob 1 BTC (A), signed Alice (B)" - if signed by anyone but Alice, the message is rejected.

All an NFT does is extend the possible payloads to include arbitrary information, e.g. "link to monkey JPG" (A), signed Alice (B).

Yes, anyone can resubmit the same link to the same JPG, but Alice's signature is unique to her, and the composite of A + B is "the NFT" not just A.

Jun 14, 22 6:42 am  · 
 · 

The question of "the original" versus the copies is partially solved due to the global, timestamped nature of blockchains, it's trivial to tell which one was first and which are the copies, which is not so easy to do with "real" paintings.

Jun 14, 22 6:52 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"...NFT is an attempt to create artificial scarcity where there is none. Anyone can create an NFT for a digital asset, even if there’s no actual asset behind it..."

Jun 14, 22 7:01 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"If I am selling a tomato this tomato has no use-value at all for me. Its use-value only exists for the person that buys it. I am only interested in the exchange-value, how much money I can get for it. Production in a capitalist society is not production for use, but for exchange. This means that we have no inherent interest in the usefulness of our labor outside of its ability to create exchange-value. Now, from a social perspective, it is very important what kind of labor we do: Do we make bombs or flowers? Oil or cupcakes? But as individuals we have no stake in this. We produce in order make money, to get exchange value. 

Why do people produce for exchange and not for their own use? Because in a capitalist society the working class does not own the means of producing their own subsistence. The only way for working people to get the necessities of life is buy them in the market. And the only way to do this is to sell our labor to a capitalist for a wage. We spend our whole life making a profit for an employer so that we can spend this wage in the market to obtain our daily bread. Our job is not a means toward personal satisfaction. Our job is a means of making money so that we can buy our satisfaction in the market."

Use-Value vs. Exchange-Value

Jun 14, 22 7:10 am  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

This NFT and Crypto thing will hasten the end of Capitalism, and for that, I am definitely buying a large buttered.

Jun 14, 22 7:13 am  · 
1  · 

I agree that these fundamental (naked?) primitives around ownership call into question what it means to own something.

Jun 14, 22 11:09 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

How is that different from fiat money?

Jun 14, 22 1:01 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I floated an idea a while ago suggesting that we back money with national park lands…so to introduce more money would require the protection of more lands. This would seem to create a financial stake in preservation of the ecological world. Being the nfts are essentially free to create as you wish, why not be an agent of change and create an nft that is backed by some social good deed. For example, x shares = 1 tree donated to urban tree program, or to some homeless program. The nft and crypto game could be tuned to do what capitalism falls short on. Instead, seems like more of the same hairless ape business. Boats and hoes.

Jun 14, 22 1:11 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

^step broathers reference in there if you missed…

Jun 14, 22 1:11 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

So, I love the idea of a non-governmental currency. I hate the way its proven that humans are doomed to greed with or without govt.

Jun 14, 22 1:15 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Edit: So, I love the idea of a non-governmental currency. I hate that it’s indistinguishable for one.

Jun 14, 22 1:17 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"Professors Christian Catalini, Scott Duke Kominers, and Ravi Jagadeesan - of the MIT Sloan School of Management, Harvard Business School, and Stanford University, respectively - believe it can. They argue that concepts like “ownership” and “value” are social constructs, and can pretty much mean anything so long as enough people agree on it. From their essay in Project Syndicate in April 2021:

“Critical to [the ownership model of NFTs] is the connection between the easy-to-copy object and its digital token. Whether this link confers any value to the token depends on a tribe reaching agreement about how the link is established, maintained, and/or destroyed. If those with confidence in it lose faith or move on to something else, NFT holders would be left with nothing but a worthless bundle of bits.

Like cryptocurrencies and fiat money, NFTs therefore derive their value from group beliefs and consensus.”

Narrowly speaking, this analogy to fiat money doesn’t hold up. The US dollar, for example, derives its value not from tribal agreement, but from its backing by the federal government. The idea that voluntary consensus alone could allow NFTs to hold value as reliably as legal tender strains credulity. Plus, even the dollar couldn’t hold value if anyone on the internet could mint them at will. More broadly, the authors fail to grapple with how fundamental the right of exclusive use is to notions of ownership."

Jun 14, 22 1:41 pm  · 
 · 

@x-jla i'm sure it will be met with derisions of greenwashing, but there are several initiatives around NFT based tree planting projects, here is one: https://ito.veritree.com/

Jun 14, 22 4:09 pm  · 
 · 

@betadine - that's what makes me laugh the most about the anti-crypto sentiment people are expressing here, what alternative do they prefer? Jpow printing away dollars to glory? I have no faith in the US government and do not wish to be beholden to its whims.

Jun 14, 22 4:13 pm  · 
 · 

For me the environmental issues are besides the point. 

My issue is that you're here trying to increase interest in your NFT's to make yourself more money. You're being deceitful and deceptive about your motives for posting here. This destroys any credibility you may have on the subject. As such you can't be upset that people aren't believing you about the energy uses of blockchain tech.

Jun 14, 22 4:14 pm  · 
2  ·  1
SneakyPete

Is there a direct financial gain for this dude from sales beyond the intial transaction? I didn't think so. At worst this is about increasing the value of the crypto currency the purchasers used to buy these NFTs.

Jun 14, 22 4:38 pm  · 
1  · 

The OP owns 300 of his original NFT's. The OP is promoting his previously sold NFT's. The value of NFT's are based on their age and popularity. Basically the older and more an NFT 'recognized' and 'talked about' the more it's speculative worth to the people that trade them.  This would explain why the OP is here talking in circles about his NFT's and crypto.  He's trying to increase online talk about his NFT's and thus increase interest in his NFT's. 

In addition the OP has admitted that a substantial amount of his 'wealth is in crypto.  Combine that with the considerable drop in value of various crypto (around 50%) and it certainly appears that the OP is trying to increase the value of his original 300 NFT's that he owns so he can sell and recover from loss of his crypto's  value.

Jun 14, 22 5:30 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I remember buying a signed photo of some famous ball player a long time ago. It even came with a "Certificate Of Authenticity"! Yet, how many times have we read in the news about fakes, or fraudulent certs? 

In this climate, I'm much less certain about some rando dude, than I am about the US Government, despite how much I loathe it.

Jun 14, 22 6:42 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Chad, it's like he's trying to sell fish, water.

Jun 14, 22 6:43 pm  · 
 · 

Except he's lying about trying to sell the water . . .

Jun 14, 22 6:51 pm  · 
2  · 
z1111

There is no architecture in a computer and there is apparently no art in nfts. These individuals that code are appropriating terms that have no basis in objective reality.

Jun 14, 22 7:16 pm  · 
 · 

The purpose of sharing what I did was to share a new mode of creative practice with people who I thought I had a lot in common with given similar education and skill sets, especially parametric design (design all of the "forks" not just 1).

Jun 14, 22 8:24 pm  · 
 · 

Find your fixation with scams and hunting for some monetary motive for sharing droll and base. Anyways you've convinced me it was a bad idea to come here, and a good idea to leave architecture. Ciao.

Jun 14, 22 8:27 pm  · 
1  · 
z1111

You thought that you could come to a forum composed of professional architects and try to sell them on the idea of prostituting their art and craft as a speculative commodity? Did you now?

Jun 14, 22 8:36 pm  · 
3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

.

Jun 14, 22 8:43 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

.

Jun 14, 22 9:00 pm  · 
1  · 

I know that number sounds big, but it's not. To lose $1b in market cap there has to be 1b in market cap, by the way that would have to happen 100 days in a row with no relief rally to wipe out crypto.


BTW z1, no, just no.


To everyone who thinks I'm trying to scam you: please realize that archinect is not some huge platform where someone can peddle their wares and make a windfall from all the disposable income architects have sloshing around at their disposal.  *IF* someone wanted to scam people there would be much better targets than here.

Jun 15, 22 5:40 am  · 
 · 

I don't think you're trying to scam anyone. I think you're trying to increase internet traffic relating to your NFT's. What you are doing is lying about only wanting to share your 'art'. 

 I'm aware of the amount of online traffic this site gets. I'm also aware that you're promoting your NFT's on several other sites.

As for your market capitol comments.  The total value of crypto is not as high as you say it is.  Regardless, I don't care how much market capitol something is valued at.  Loosing around 10% of an assets total capitol in less than 72 hours is not good.  This is even worse when the value of a asset is not tied to any set commodity or insured. 

Jun 15, 22 10:23 am  · 
 · 

ya got me chad, what a genius move.

Since you want some numbers, the 300 NFTs I still hold are <1% of the total collection. I sold them in 3 phases:

1st 10k: $50 / 3
2nd 10k: $50 / 2
3rd 10k: $50 / 1

They now sell for $2-400 each at minimum, with the highest sale being $50k. I'm literally not wanting for money any more, it may be hard to imagine and I don't care if you believe it or not, but I am very much post-financial concerns in my life right now. Not because I've amassed an incredibly large amount of money, but because my needs are fairly simple and I'm not into conspicuous consumption.

PS: yes, the market cap of crypto is as high as I say it is, if you need a shoulder to cry on after viewing this let me know: https://www.coingecko.com/

Jun 15, 22 10:26 am  · 
 · 

There is nothing wrong with trying to promote your NFT's. Just don't lie about the reasons you're doing it.

Jun 15, 22 10:29 am  · 
1  · 

Too thick to continue talking to Chad. Good luck in your life.

Jun 15, 22 10:31 am  · 
 · 

You're correct - I don't believe you. 

Just and FYI - I may not have as much money as you say you're worth but - I have over $1.5 million in retirement, $100K in cash savings, and have no debt.   I am finically stable and not concerned about money. I did not come from money.  I got this way because I understand economics and am good with money.

I tell you this to lend validity to what I'm about to say next. 

The crypto market is speculative and heavily tied up in other blockchain markets / assets. It's basically cash poor. If only 30% of the  crypto assets were to be liquidated it will realistically crash all crypto and make it worthless. That's the main reason crypto values have been increasingly declining in value for the past several months.  People with the knowledge are seeing the possible end. 


Jun 15, 22 10:41 am  · 
1  · 

Alexander - One last thing. The crypto market lost a lot more that $100 billion. Assuming your link is correct the crypto market has lost around $800 billion or 40% of it's total speculative worth in the last seven days. 

You know this but don't want to talk about it.  You're being devious and only talking about what was lost in the last 24 hours.

It's behavior like this that makes me question your sincerity and honesty.  

Jun 15, 22 11:35 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

At this point he's arguing the finer points to get some Ws.

Jun 15, 22 12:14 pm  · 
1  · 

I'm aware. I just like seeing him twist in the wind as I show him I know he's full of shit and can back it up with knowledge and experience. Truthfully I don't know why Archinect hasn't nuked this thread. It's quite clear that Alexander is being dishonest and deceptive for his own personal gain. I' think Archinect would have better ethics than to allow this type of behavior on it's site.

Jun 15, 22 12:27 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

agreed chad - to me this isn't just simple self-promotion, there's a financial interest in the op for doing so, which makes it an advertisement under the guise of a discussion about art.

Jun 15, 22 1:14 pm  · 
1  · 

Exactly. The fact that Alexander is lying about it and the values associated with it are abhorrent. The odd think is that Alexander wasn't intelligent enough to realize how easy it is to disprove everything he says.

Jun 15, 22 1:16 pm  · 
 · 

This thread has made me realize how skeptical and subservient/victimized people are to the existing financial order, so thank you for that. I referred to my own work to give a concrete example of something that was not a monkey JPG and actually considered its medium. Finally I'm not here to promote crypto - it's a highly volatile asset class that most people don't understand and that most projects are just copy paste scams, but it's also literally the best performing asset of the past decade ( https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-becomes-best-performing-asset-132208120.html ) even after the recent crash. Kinda blows my mind that someone can be as confident and ignorant of something they clearly don't understand. Enjoy carrying water for Jaimie Diamond and your wall st overlords that are so clearly superior to the tech bros you hate so much (better unplug your internet while you're at it).

Jun 15, 22 8:45 pm  · 
 · 
z1111

FDIC.

Jun 15, 22 9:15 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

So many logical fallacies.

Jun 15, 22 10:16 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

say "monkey jpg" one more time as if it means something

regardless of the currency, you're still dodging the central issue of this thread, which is you came here to sell a product under false pretenses.

Jun 16, 22 9:02 am  · 
 · 

Alexander 

- you liked an article that is over a year old, before crypto lost nearly 50% of it's value. Any asset with so much volatility and speculation can make a lot of money. It can, and mostly will loose a lot of money. This is what crypto is experiencing.


Alexander  wrote:

“Enjoy carrying water for Jaimie Diamond and your wall st overlords that are so clearly superior to the tech bros you hate so much (better unplug your internet while you're at it).” 

How is your situation with NFT’s and crypto any different? You’ve admitted that the majority of both are scams and very few people will make any money on them. You’ve admitted that the business practices of both are unethical, and you don’t agree with them. Yet you’re still promoting them and trying to make money off them by getting other involved in them. The truth of the situation is you are ‘Jamie Diamond’ and you’re trying to get others to carry water for you.

Jun 16, 22 10:16 am  · 
 · 

News flash Chad, humans use anything to try and scam each other, that's part of human nature. That some people do bad things with a technology is not a reason to outright ban it or not use it. The difference is crypto allows people to not be dependent on third party intermediaries and directly resolve economic transactions in a trustless manner.

Jun 16, 22 2:34 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The difference is crypto allows people to not be dependent on third party intermediaries and directly resolve economic transactions in a trustless manner.

I mean, for reals? You honestly believe that? Can I easily cash out my BC, or DC, at will? I mean, can I get $$ to give the cashier at my local Speedway?

If not, then no.

Additionally, I've heard that if I am a minor - by minor I mean someone with modest BC - BC playa, I need to wait in a queue to convert BC, as all the other high dolla mules cash out, all while the value in my wallet drops. Cash me out playa!!


Jun 17, 22 7:46 am  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]
Cash Me Out Playa
Cash Me Out Playa

...directly resolve economic transactions in a trustless manner...
Jun 17, 22 7:52 am  · 
 · 

You'd have an easier time turning your BTC into cash than your architectural services. Seems like some of you don't understand how big crypto is these days, it's literally a trillion+ dollar industry.

Jun 17, 22 9:23 am  · 
 · 

Give it a week - it will be worth billions. Give it another few months and . . . .

Jun 17, 22 10:29 am  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Oh, it's a trillion dollar industry, you say? We should probably just do whatever's best for it, then.

Jun 17, 22 11:44 am  · 
1  · 
x-jla

The cash me outside girl is loaded now.

Jun 17, 22 2:54 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Everyone is rich except for me. Maybe I should do the inflation things too like all these scumbag companies are doing.

Jun 17, 22 2:55 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The Cash Me Ousside girl, is not a zero based asset. She has more value than Bitchcoin.

Jun 17, 22 5:45 pm  · 
 · 
Jay1122

I wish I have the ability to create useless NFTs and Cryptos and lure those fools in and reap their hard earned savings and investments. 

Hmm, maybe sell custom designed digital houses as NFT? Good for the upcoming "Metaverse" huh? People can't afford real houses, why not spend the money on the virtual one. How do I fool people into buying this concept?

Jun 15, 22 12:25 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

now here's a question - does having an ounce of integrity provide any "value"? or worth, take your pick.

Jun 15, 22 1:00 pm  · 
 · 
monosierra

Hopefully when the bubble bursts and the speculators leave, there will be more interesting and useful technologies that will find their way into our everyday lives. The '99 bubble was rife with companies that never did harness the full potential of the nascent internet at the time - some were cash grabs, others simply were ahead of their time. Those that survived and those that later emerged are still with us today and have changed a sizable part of work, life, and play. Beyond stuff that makes the headlines, less sexier, industry-specific tech progresses apace - I don't think folks outside the AEC business were getting excited over BIM, or folks outside the legal profession swooning over software that helps with discovery! How the survivors of crypto and blockchain will impact our business remains to be seen.

Jun 15, 22 1:51 pm  · 
4  · 
Bench

how does this thread still have legs ...

Jun 17, 22 8:30 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

probably mines Scamcoins or something in the background. Archicoin? FLWcoin? Gherycoin? Someone get the big Green Head over here for an emergency meeting.

Jun 17, 22 8:51 am  · 
 · 
Wood Guy

It doesn't. It's like watching an amusement park ride going 'round and 'round.

Jun 17, 22 9:28 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

T'is OK WG... we'll all have less time soon to dowse this dumpster fire once your book gets shipped out.

Jun 17, 22 9:46 am  · 
1  · 
Wood Guy

It's sure to happen one of these days. Apparently the books are being bound now and still on schedule for shipping starting on 6/28.

Jun 17, 22 10:10 am  · 
3  · 

Sweet! I can't wait to get my copy!

Jun 17, 22 10:26 am  · 
2  · 
Wood Guy

I'm bracing myself that it might not live up to expectations but hopefully most readers find it inspiring and/or informative.

Jun 17, 22 10:53 am  · 
 · 

I know I will! :)

Jun 17, 22 10:58 am  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Anna To The Rescue!
Jun 17, 22 6:11 pm  · 
1  · 
arhiarhi design group

The same reason they pay me better then normally. Since I specifically work on BIM level 2 heavy industry buildings. I remember as if it was yesterday even though it was 8 years ago when I started. My clients didnt care about BIM in architecture. Then when it became a must have....now everyone needs it. So i suppose this will also take pace....

Jun 18, 22 2:21 pm  · 
 · 

Are you lost?

Jun 21, 22 12:20 pm  · 
1  · 
sameolddoctor

Looks like the OP has disappeared ... lost all your Crypto, bro?

Jun 20, 22 10:22 pm  · 
 · 

When I realized I was talking to a wall I walked away.

Jun 21, 22 4:43 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Careful, that wall has carefully placed reveals in it.

Jun 21, 22 6:13 am  · 
1  · 

lordy lord, saint teresa aint the only one experiencing ecstasy

Jun 21, 22 6:42 am  · 
2  · 

You're ecstatic because you lost 50% of your assets? You must have some master plan to regain all that money.

All joking aside -  I hope you recover.  Like any investment with a high profit margin there is high risk.  Good luck. 


Jun 21, 22 11:09 am  · 
 · 

I'm doing more than alright. Thank you for your concern but this isn't my first rodeo. Seems likely to come out of this with more than when I started.

Also, some of my replies seem to be getting randomly removed so I will take that as a sign to bow out. Please enjoy archinecting and architecting.

As a parting gift, will leave you with this tweet i ran across earlier since so may of you were concerned with the carbon footprint of blockchains.

Jun 22, 22 6:30 pm  · 
 ·  2
b3tadine[sutures]

It's still about individualism, and not about actually helping people. But you go on making bank...I'll steal it later.

Jun 23, 22 1:30 pm  · 
1  ·  1

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