How do people in an office feel about new employees working overtime? Like let's say the new intern architect stays an hour extra everyday but charges it to his payroll account as overtime even if he isn't working on a project yet.
Do you think that intern architects or even student interns should be expected to stay past hours/work through lunch? Whether that's paid or unpaid. Is that a favorable trait for an employee?
I don't work in an architecture office but I work in a shared space as other employees that do.
Its not OT if its not billable. It should be accounted for as employee education and you should ask if that is an education your employer would be willing to pay for.
One is if you are an hourly employee, now your employer gets to pay you time and half. That's fine if you employer approved the OT ahead of time, but it's NOT COOL to stealth post a bunch of OT if you are hourly.
Two is, even if you are salaried, OT can mess up the work planning/staffing resources. We plan projects assuming a 40 hour week (or try to at least) and when someone is allocated 40 hours to a project but actually posts 48, then suddenly our hours and billing is all out of whack.
That's not to say OT should never be done but definitely don't do it without clearing it with the PA or PM, and if you're staying just to like, learn Revit better, then don't post that - that's your education on your own time (just using office resources).
I think it's clear from previous posts. Always communicate the hours you plan on staying and don't charge overtime without clearing it with superiors first.
That said, never "don't post your hours." I don't like this concept people are trying to peddle about "hours not being billable" and learning revit being "your own time." If part of your tasks you've been hired for involves learning revit, it should have been pretty clear during your interview that you needed training, and they hired you anyway, and those hours should count. Not only are you underselling yourself and perpetuating unfair work practices by not posting the full hours you've worked, but you're also causing future problems by creating expectations that a particular task should only take "X" hours. If everyone underposts their hours because they feel like "oh, 5 of my hours this week were less productive than I would have liked because I really had to beef up on those TPO roof details" then everyone will end up putting 50+ hours in, posting 40, and management will be overpromising how long it will take to complete projects to the clients.
Jul 5, 18 10:16 am ·
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Non Sequitur
I'm salaried but with an hourly wage for hours worked above our typical 37.5hr week. I've never had to clear OT with anyone because I run my own projects and deadlines so I know how much we have available to complete the jobs... I log 10% to 30% OT per week and have so consistently for the last decade.
Jul 5, 18 10:22 am ·
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joseffischer
37.5 hours seems like an interesting cutoff, so if you stay 8 hours a day and take 30 minute lunches, you're in the clear. That sounds nice. I'd assume project managers have a lot more leeway with their schedules. I must have been mistaken, I thought OP was specifically targeting comments for interns.
Jul 5, 18 1:14 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
Yeah, our junior staff run steady 7.5hr days unless directed otherwise. Can you believe we used to have 35hr weeks just a few years ago? Anyways, not related to the OP's comments but felt like chiming in.
Jul 5, 18 1:21 pm ·
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spiketwig
I mean I suppose it's a fair question of how much software learning curve should be absorbed into project budgets. My point is that if you're doing actual tutorials or you've done that thing (we've all done) of losing 2 hours to solving a 5 minute problem, I would not want you blowing up my project budgets with extra hours your spent which didn't actually result in any progress on the project itself. In my mind learning software goes on the overhead budgets (not to projects) so if you're staying late and wanting OT pay for learning software, it's critical make sure your PM or principal is OK with it first. Don't pretend like it was time really spent on a project.
On the other side of the coin, if you truly feel like you want to spend some time on something that you have no way to think of tieing it back to your job description, go home and do it. Things like "I want to learn dynamo and how to code so I can automate X" really doesn't fit into more traditional firms, and it would be better that you created whatever app or program on your own, and then went to sell it to your bosses as a product. If you create it on their machines using their software, they most likely have precedent to argue it's theirs.
Yes, I believe interns and mostly all young people who want to win on the playing field of architecture should be treated like indentured servants. They must learn the ways of the world, as we all were taught by our masters.
No overtime, no days off and they must be ready day or night to take business calls! Freedom through Work!
Everyone in my firm is salary. If OT is required at my office, a partner will sit down with you privately and explain that it is expected that you work OT specifically for a certain project to meet a specific deadline. After that deadline, it is no longer expected that you will work OT. After the deadline, sometimes an additional benefit is given - some kind of small bonus or a few extra PTO hours that don't get deducted from your bank. Student interns are sometimes given the opportunity for OT as an additional amount of money to be added to their paycheck. If something hasn't been agreed to for an intern, they go home while the full-time employees stay.
If you are staying to use your computer or something not work-related, that's not OT. If you're staying to work on something and no one sat down with you beforehand, that's OT but no one will reward you for it as it's up to you to get your work done in a timely fashion. They just want you to work 40 hours and get your stuff done.
Jul 5, 18 11:49 am ·
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How do people in an office feel about new employees working overtime? Like let's say the new intern architect stays an hour extra everyday but charges it to his payroll account as overtime even if he isn't working on a project yet.
Do you think that intern architects or even student interns should be expected to stay past hours/work through lunch? Whether that's paid or unpaid. Is that a favorable trait for an employee?
I don't work in an architecture office but I work in a shared space as other employees that do.
Its not OT if its not billable. It should be accounted for as employee education and you should ask if that is an education your employer would be willing to pay for.
There's 2 parts of OT hours that are problematic.
One is if you are an hourly employee, now your employer gets to pay you time and half. That's fine if you employer approved the OT ahead of time, but it's NOT COOL to stealth post a bunch of OT if you are hourly.
Two is, even if you are salaried, OT can mess up the work planning/staffing resources. We plan projects assuming a 40 hour week (or try to at least) and when someone is allocated 40 hours to a project but actually posts 48, then suddenly our hours and billing is all out of whack.
That's not to say OT should never be done but definitely don't do it without clearing it with the PA or PM, and if you're staying just to like, learn Revit better, then don't post that - that's your education on your own time (just using office resources).
Communication helps everyone. Don't do OT without communicating.
I think it's clear from previous posts. Always communicate the hours you plan on staying and don't charge overtime without clearing it with superiors first.
That said, never "don't post your hours." I don't like this concept people are trying to peddle about "hours not being billable" and learning revit being "your own time." If part of your tasks you've been hired for involves learning revit, it should have been pretty clear during your interview that you needed training, and they hired you anyway, and those hours should count. Not only are you underselling yourself and perpetuating unfair work practices by not posting the full hours you've worked, but you're also causing future problems by creating expectations that a particular task should only take "X" hours. If everyone underposts their hours because they feel like "oh, 5 of my hours this week were less productive than I would have liked because I really had to beef up on those TPO roof details" then everyone will end up putting 50+ hours in, posting 40, and management will be overpromising how long it will take to complete projects to the clients.
I'm salaried but with an hourly wage for hours worked above our typical 37.5hr week. I've never had to clear OT with anyone because I run my own projects and deadlines so I know how much we have available to complete the jobs... I log 10% to 30% OT per week and have so consistently for the last decade.
37.5 hours seems like an interesting cutoff, so if you stay 8 hours a day and take 30 minute lunches, you're in the clear. That sounds nice. I'd assume project managers have a lot more leeway with their schedules. I must have been mistaken, I thought OP was specifically targeting comments for interns.
Yeah, our junior staff run steady 7.5hr days unless directed otherwise. Can you believe we used to have 35hr weeks just a few years ago? Anyways, not related to the OP's comments but felt like chiming in.
I mean I suppose it's a fair question of how much software learning curve should be absorbed into project budgets. My point is that if you're doing actual tutorials or you've done that thing (we've all done) of losing 2 hours to solving a 5 minute problem, I would not want you blowing up my project budgets with extra hours your spent which didn't actually result in any progress on the project itself. In my mind learning software goes on the overhead budgets (not to projects) so if you're staying late and wanting OT pay for learning software, it's critical make sure your PM or principal is OK with it first. Don't pretend like it was time really spent on a project.
On the other side of the coin, if you truly feel like you want to spend some time on something that you have no way to think of tieing it back to your job description, go home and do it. Things like "I want to learn dynamo and how to code so I can automate X" really doesn't fit into more traditional firms, and it would be better that you created whatever app or program on your own, and then went to sell it to your bosses as a product. If you create it on their machines using their software, they most likely have precedent to argue it's theirs.
Yes, I believe interns and mostly all young people who want to win on the playing field of architecture should be treated like indentured servants. They must learn the ways of the world, as we all were taught by our masters.
No overtime, no days off and they must be ready day or night to take business calls! Freedom through Work!
Everyone in my firm is salary. If OT is required at my office, a partner will sit down with you privately and explain that it is expected that you work OT specifically for a certain project to meet a specific deadline. After that deadline, it is no longer expected that you will work OT. After the deadline, sometimes an additional benefit is given - some kind of small bonus or a few extra PTO hours that don't get deducted from your bank. Student interns are sometimes given the opportunity for OT as an additional amount of money to be added to their paycheck. If something hasn't been agreed to for an intern, they go home while the full-time employees stay.
If you are staying to use your computer or something not work-related, that's not OT. If you're staying to work on something and no one sat down with you beforehand, that's OT but no one will reward you for it as it's up to you to get your work done in a timely fashion. They just want you to work 40 hours and get your stuff done.
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