It doesn't have to be if we had proper representation from our Lobbying organization AIA and NCARB .

Lol what does being a fool mean?

Right ncarb seems to be trying but. Anyone do 5.0?

One-in-three architecture students reporting more stress-related mental health problems ≠ one-in-three architecture students suffering from stress-related mental health problems...

very true. I am from the UK, and I remember design tutors telling students to get a doctors note for an extension using mental health as a reason.

But also people might report issues that wouldn't be considered mental health issues, no? Just because people report stuff doesn't mean it is true?

Sure. But we haven't even spoken about disability. That deserves another forum. Disability now includes by government definition: 1/mobility (ie wheelchair-bound) 2/sensorial (ie blindness or hard of hearing) 3/brain-based (learning disability, autism). According to ADA definitions, 26% of the US has a disability. This is not a "them" issue, it's an "us" issue. Same with mental illness--it touches all of us whether indirectly or directly. Chronic stress can lead to anxiety disorders, which I'm sure goes undiagnosed a boatload. Then there's the other question: To what degree does architecture school trigger mental illness, or intensify the issue? I'm sure some folks arrived in arch school already with a mental illness. Then there's the ENVIRONMENT/TEMPORARY: Various effective disorders arise for the duration of the program, then fade away (or not?) afterwards. Some may be scarred for life. Then I've heard of people with mental disorder say to me they never pursued Architecture school, even though they loved the profession, since they were sure that the stress would send them over the edge. I DO think that brain-based disability should be treated the same as mobility and sensorial disability. If there are structures that exclude whole groups of people then that's actually in violation of ADA. It would behoove administrations to address this now, if they want to protect themselves from litigation, etc. And gaslighting and/or naivete of the administration has to stop. Case in point: Harvard GSD upper person (4th floor baby!) actually told a student who reported sexual harassment and abuse that "they had never heard of x, y, z actions, it's just never something they have ever seen." It's not a ghost she's describing for christssake! At the very least haven't they watched drama/thrillers/law and order, etc? Grossly irresponsible. It's gotta stop now, and at the very least the schools should host open discussions. 

My partner is ex-military and has a similar feeling relative to boot camp. However, boot camp is only 90 days! I suffered through the shit for 5 years, man. It definitely toughens you up!

LOL I would say your production of newborn is more incredible than any 3D printed model or parametric make 2D drawing that is being pumped out as we speak...at 4 in the morning.

So you've been trained to be the architectural equivalent of cannon fodder, explains it all...

HA! And then many architects are simply sheep, so they decide to continue in their own teaching, and again and again ad nauseum. Which professors (you don't have to name names) are wonderful human beings?

Wouldn't the beach chill them out a bit?

Cool story bro, but perhaps it’s because you went to shit school or you yourself were a shit student? I know it’s easier to just throw everything in a nice convenient box and label it, but it’s not that simple. Plenty of decent schools with happy and successful students out there.

Your nasty reply demonstrates all that is wrong in architecture education. Your assessment of me is based on no evidence whatsoever, but yet you come to the conclusion you must have gone to a better school than me and been a superior student. Arrogance personified! theappealofarchitecture.blogspot.com/2017/08/views-of-people-who-have-contacted-me.html

Incorrect. One person's experience does not mean everything is terrible. Also, perhaps you should refer to archinect's advertisement policies before plugging your book in a nearly 1y long dead zombie jesus thread.

Hardly one person’s experience judging by the thread.

But still too small a sample to make broad generalizations and "avoid at all costs" type remarks.

I do not promote my book for my own gain, and nor did I write it from my own gain. I am trying to save a few lives. I have done extensive research on the subject. There is an appendix in the book with the views of praticising architects and former students (some are included on the blog link I included earlier) - the General consensus is that the system of educating architects needs a massive overhaul because it is largely based on the opinions and prejudices of tutors BASED ON NO SET CRITERIA. Tutors can just randomly fail anyone who annoys them - and they do. All the time.

I do not promote my book for my own gain, and nor did I write it from my own gain. I am trying to save a few lives. I have done extensive research on the subject. There is an appendix in the book with the views of praticising architects and former students who (some are included on the blog link I included earlier) - that the system of educating architects needs a massive overhaul because it is largely based on the opinions and prejudices of tutors BASED ON NO SET CRITERIA. Tutors can just randomly fail anyone who annoys them - and they do. All the time.

But Moira, the book you're trying to plug here is about cruelty YOU perceived at architecture school (your words) making it the subjective account of ONE person, namely you. If architecture school should be avoided at all costs, how should architects be trained and educated? It's not a problem that architecture is subjective, that's what makes it so great, because people, future clients all have different needs and wishes too, very subjective. Those clients might pluck some random numbers out of air (based on no set criteria) and the architect will have to work with it. Some architects even have their drawings done by qualified staff, OMG! You're painting with a brush that's way too broad, be more specific. What cruelty? Details...

It's too easy to hit the wrong key on an ipad. I'll give up now. Goodbye.

That is a grossly incorrect extrapolation and if that's your conclusion, then you do not understand the meaning of extensive research. The education curriculum does need some drastic fine-tuning, but not in the way you're hinting at (it needs a greater variety of prof-prac and technical coursework, not easier studios). Design education will always be arbitrary so expecting a convenient set of rules to establish success (pass or fail) will never work. If you want that, go to an engineering school. The difficulty with architecture education is explaining to students that they need to present ideas and answer to criticism, not be told what to do and get a shinny star for following a set path. That's high-school stuff.

Start your own discussion thread in the forum separate from this zombie-Jesus thread if you want to bracket your opinion against others.  There are hundreds and hundreds of arch schools out-there.  Most are pumping out serviceable grads without issue. 

I have been to three architecture schools in the UK and have seen a lot of unnecessary cruelty. People have written to me from all over the world, and it's much the same everywhere - random marking based on no set criteria whatsoever. I'm glad you think that's okay. It shouldn't be a subject in a university if this is not possible. my blog

Hilarious. And also, your understanding of cruel is a fucking joke. Boo-who, the teacher does not like my drawings. Mommy told me they were great, why am I not getting the 95% I deserve?

Moira, if you already give up replying so easily, just because of a stupid iPad, no wonder you had trouble in archi school ;-) (drops mic)

I'm at my main computer now. Non Sequitur, you say, "The difficulty with architecture education is explaining to students..." Are you employed in architecture education by any chance?

I am not employed in academia. I am a licensed practicing architect.

And now that you've disagreed with him, you'll probably be banned. One person said so, which makes it true.

The existence of people who've been failed by the system does not mean that the system is broken. Also, the fact that the system is not broken doesn't invalidate the experience of people who have been failed. You're arguing non-intersecting tangents. 

Maybe the system is broken. I'd personally disagree, but I'm open to reading something that might change my mind and I'm quite fond of changing my mind when something sways me. This book doesn't seem like that kind of book, though.

I wrote, "15 reasons NOT to study architecture" too. It's made up of little essays which might sway you. my blog

Architecture is not the field for everyone. What field is? Most of the reasons in your "15 reasons" seem laughably ridiculous to me (you have to lug around too much stuff? some people cheat in college? you might cry? you have to draw bricks? you'll never get a decent job unless you're rich and have family connections?)   But, I have a decent job despite no family wealth or connections, don't mind drawing bricks, didn't cheat in college or get too unhinged about those who did, and I lug around less stuff than when I worked various other types of jobs. If these issues seem hugely important or insurmountable to anyone, then it's true they probably shouldn't go into the field.

The blog is bias, the research sampling is poor, the conclusion is shit, the author is incapable of critical thinking, the list goes on. Good thing arch school weeds out the week ones. We have enough trouble getting good staff, can't imagine the likes of her watering down the talent pool even more.

It's a sad book, about a lonely student who has trouble keeping friends, keeping up, fitting in, finding her way, and who feels left behind on weekends and such. It's not particularly informative, as it's very dated (set in the mid 1980s) both about the architecture schools and about social isolation. I enjoyed it somewhat, by imagining the whole thing as a John Hughes movie set in architecture school - but I wouldn't recommend it as at all relevant for anyone considering entering the profession today.

Granted some of the points aren't completely serious. You must agree that projects are randomly marked though, based on no set criteria. Students are kept anxious until the very end as marks awarded for project work throughout the year are disregarded and a random mark plucked from the sky, based on no set criteria is given. 

That's not how grading works and that's not how design in academia is reviewed. There are more pieces than you're willing to admit because it will force you to reconsider your terrible "cruel" conclusion.

What she's describing is a way that some architecture programs operated decades ago. It was a double-jeopardy system where the studio critic's grades for the projects weren't the final word - there was also an end-of-semester or end-of-year class review where a larger group of faculty and visiting critics would grade the work in the students' absence, and that grade would be the final semester's grade or factor into it (depending on the program). In the US NAAB hasn't allowed that system since the late 1980s. She's talking about her experience in Scotland in the 80s - I don't know if that's still happening that way now there.

Also worth mentioning that I've never seen an arch studio where the criteria for grades and project evaluation were not outlined within the first day of class.

I had classmates whose parents were architects, (oh, surprise) they had an upper leg in most subjects and studio, but instead of bashing them or being envious, I managed to get closer to them to learn some trade tricks that were not taught in school. It's tough, not for everybody, exhausting - but it's not abuse, it's so far the only way we have found to transmit some kind of knowledge in a discipline that is not scientific in nature, and can accept a lot more than one answer to a specific problem.

I'm not going to purchase any of this woman's books despite this thinly veiled spam, but I read the Amazon previews and they all share the same theme: she's unhappy and people won't hang out with her because of her negativity. In the one about moving to Switzerland her friends drop her because all she does is rant about how awful Switzerland is. In the one about going to architecture school her classmates ditch her because all she does is complain about architecture school. Who knew this was a successful self-publishing strategy? I'm going to get started right away on my book of how I went to culinary school and everybody avoided me because I hate cooking, and then... the sky's the limit, I hate so many things! Saxophones, golf, Canada...

Out of interest, have you written anything?

Hey, what's wrong with Canada, Sponty?

Too much government oversight. It should be my choice if I want to eat trans fats in restaurants and buy a used mattress. Also too many caribou. Wow this book's almost writing itself.

Buying used mattresses is illegal here? I did not know. I learned something today. Hopefully so did Moira.

RickB-Astoria, Granted the last time I was in an architecture school was 1995 and it was Newcastle University. But the only reason I keep trying to get the word out is that I hear from students who are suffering in the system today. The only thing that seems to have changed since I was there is that they have done away with written exams, making the course entirely subjective, instead of just 95% subjective. If you know of any school which marks project work against set criteria please let me know and I will stop annoying the President of the RIBA.

You're not going to challenge that and make Sponty post multiple sources backing up that used mattress claim!? Come on people, this is how dumpster fires are born. ... or do I need an extra 'u' in there for Canada? Bourn? Borne? Bourne? Jason Bourne? Matt Damon? 

[gasp] 

Matt Damon sells illegal mattresses in Canada!

Matt Damon is literally the slap-chop guy here in Canada, but for used mattresses.

...and for what it's worth Moira, your "knowledge" of the teaching of architecture is pathetically flawed and incorrect. You're too dense to realize this tho and certainly will keep on fighting this invisible bogey-man.

There is no teaching done in architecture. That is the point - only lazy teaching through criticism (which you’d be good at!) and giving students random numbers based on their likes and prejudices.

there is plenty of teaching. See my previous statement about your lack of knowledge. Again, you have literally no concept of the subject you're attacking here.

Peter Eisenmann, now he’s good, “If you put a monkey in front of a typewriter......” He’s teaching a lot!,,, http://theappealofarchitecture.blogspot.com/p/eisenmann-debates-wolf-d-prix-at-crit.html

Peter Eisenmann, now he’s good, “If you put a monkey in front of a typewriter......” He’s teaching a lot!,,, http://theappealofarchitecture.blogspot.com/p/eisenmann-debates-wolf-d-prix-at-crit.html

Old news and not relevant but I can see you're a fan of cherry-picking examples to suit your delusions.

"You must agree that projects are randomly marked though, based on no set criteria."

Moira, that's not how grading works, at all. The times I failed classes it was totally deserved and not random at all because of some silly preferences of the tutors, not saying that they don't have those, they are human after all.

Again I'm sorry you have a bad experience Moira, but you seem a little too eager to extrapolate that experience into other schools, nations, and even decades. And without even an attempt at compiling research (Disgruntled students who seek you out because of shared experience is not research) you're not likely to prove anything to anyone. 

Seems like you have a conclusion in mind, in order to make you feel better, and you've spent a solid chunk of your life clinging to whatever justifies it, at the expense of everything else.

I wonder if her next book will just be all these responses copy-pasted.

tduds, don’t worry about me I have a full life. I just try to campaign for change from time to time. This is what an architect wrote on Amazon.ca “Moira's experience makes me sad and a bit ashamed to be an architect, if the profession treats even one person this way. If there is any positive outcome to be considered, it is that the education of architects needs a major overhaul.“ Not everyone is as small-minded as those trying to belittling me on this thread and many traumatized students are grateful to know they are not alone.

We're not trying to belittle you. We're trying to educate you.

Educate by belittling = architecture education.

Again, grossly incorrect.

Nothing wrong with a support group, but not everybody needs one.

All RIBA validated schools operate roulette marking. It is not possible to become an architect without going to an RIBA validated school. It sounds like you were one of the lucky ones and the gate-keepers let you through. But I wonder how many clever, creative, young people would want to set foot in an architecture school if they knew their entire future EARNINGS were based on luck - and being liked by a handful of arrogant, middle-aged white men. Women tutors still few and far between in arch school and this thread show male, macho bullying is still the norm.

Zero luck is required. Again, try and educate yourself. Your bias and ignorance is preventing you from making intelligent comments.

"It is not possible to become an architect without going to an RIBA validated school." ...except in every single other country.

I'm gonna back out of this thread. It's getting too off-topic. 

Bottom line: there are absolutely problems within the architecture community and especially within architectural education. Toxic environments exist, sexism & racism exist, gate-keeping and overworking / underpaying exist. All of these are very real problems facing the profession - but I'd push back on two things. 1) These issues don't *define* the profession. Moira's experience is not unique but it's also not common. and 2) The reasons she identifies and the complaints she has are not - in my opinion - reflective of the actual problems I identified above. Nor are her proposed solutions likely to address the actual problems I identified above. 

I don't want to give the impression that I'm defending the status quo. I simply think Moira comes off as rather jaded because of her personal experience, & is barking up the wrong tree when it comes to influencing change in the profession / community.

5839, aren't you vindictive - leaving that childish review of my autobiographical book BRICK WALL on Amazon. You must feel better now.

Shitty work by a disgruntled and misinformed “author”. One bad review is just adding to the pile of manure.

Quite ironic Moria, how one person’s vindictive account of architecture school is apparently the norm and is turned into a book whereas one person’s account of that book is met with harsh criticism and deemed childish...it seems like someone held up a mirror, like what you see?

^also incorrect. AlinaF is just as clueless and disgruntled as The op.

Don’t care about gas and never said anything about it. Just poking holes in the Op’s POV. Try to keep up.

*gsa. Stupid phone.

That’s was a comment made prior to knowing the op’s history. Doesn’t not change the fact that the op was a shitty student and who still has not moved on. Again, try to keep up. The grown ups are talking here.

Not likely.

Alina...you have to agree it is ironic. One person’s experience of arch school versus one person’s experience of that book about one person’s experience of arch school. Of all people, I thought you would get that ;)

Granted my experience is one example, but many people have dreadful experiences at architecture school - experiences they feel they will never recover from - both mentally and financially. A lengthy appendix gives the opinions of current practicing architects and students in the system today. The system has always been, AND STILL IS, incredibly open to abuses of power. It’s a strange person who doesn’t want to introduce a bit of fairness to the system eg. some drawings could be done under exam conditions. Project work could be marked against set criteria, reducing subjectivity. These things are not difficult to implement, but there seems to be resistance from lazy, illogical, authoritarian individuals at the helm of architecture education.

Give it a rest. You’ve not defended your position and the horse has long been beaten to death.

Individual experiences are valuable. Unfortunately most people who are happier with their academic and professional experiences don't dwell on them enough to feel compelled to self-publish an autobiography, so the first-hand accounts available - on any field of study or profession - tend to skew toward those who had unhappy experiences. As long as the reader understands that - and the inevitable anachronistic nature of a a first-hand account written 30 years later - then this book probably can be useful to some, especially in determining whether they have the personality type and priorities to deal with studying architecture.

It's clear from this book, and just as much from the one about the author's experiences in Switzerland, and even from her replies on Amazon to some of her reviewers, that she really appreciates and feels better working within well-defined, familiar, and fixed parameters. A lot of people with that personality type do have huge challenges with architecture school - and even more so with working in the profession - because architectural projects don't fall neatly within those parameters. Some people with that personality type do make great architects - it's not that I'd want all of them to be scared out of it - but I think this book would help some with the decision.

Another thing that a young student could learn would be to do more to know much more about what they're getting into when picking not only a career direction but a school. The author's frustrations not only with the format and grading policies of architecture education, but with shabby student housing, athletic facilities that aren't open to those in all programs, etc. are things that one should make themselves aware of before choosing the program. Naturally this is easier in the age of the internet, but it's still too common to hear of students who knew virtually nothing about the university or the critical, subjective nature of architecture school until they arrived. Even though this story is quite dated and in some ways not at all representative of architecture schools today, it might spur others to visit architecture schools, sit in on crits, talk to other current students about their experiences, etc. before they commit to attending any particular school.

Well said, Bloopox

Moira, did you sell any books since you started posting here?

I get several hundred dollars whenever I hear those words. 8-)

But the vast majority of offices run typical 40ish weeks.  Your experience is not typical.

Yeah... this doesn't align with my experience. Long days a few times a year to meet a deadline? Sure. Perpetual overtime and weekend work? Time to find a new job.

Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome Xenakis?

I have issues with people like you Xenakis, you normalise abuse and depression making it acceptable and just a way of life.

the marines support their own. this doesn't sound like the experience of you or anyone else in our profession. nor should it be.

Work smarter not harder, stand up for yourself...

Not a way to live man. My dad busted his ass at a job he hated for his whole life...retired finally at 68 with barely enough money to get by...within a month was diagnosed with a serious medical condition. You need to live for today.

What an extremely dumb assignment.

Nothing surprises me. Architecture tutors can do what they like. They are answerable to no one. Some are quite twisted individuals, yet you can’t become an architect unless your PERSONALITY is approved of by them.

Are you still on this Moira? We’ve already told you countless times that that is incorrect. Find another hobby.

"Architecture tutors can do what they like. They are answerable to no one." ...yeah this is rarely the case.

My personality was not on the approved list. Yet, here I am.

Tint, out very first 1st drawing studio assignment was given to the class 1 week (or so) before the start of the semester during orientation. Students had to choose between course work or frosh week drinking. At least everyone was told of the work tho. Secret assignments just sounds wrong.

It's possible I'm remembering it wrong too.

How do you have such contradicting opinions? You complain about the work load, then suggest people go find more work to do...?

No! This is just another case of you excusing being treated as garbage. It is a project leader’s job to communicate changes with their team.

It what way would it pay off to have staff guessing at what they can work on next?

No, I'd say this is a form of gaslighting the office's production staff because it has terrible managers supervising the production staff. Also, this is not normal in architecture.

At s you have to work weekends because you’re wasting so much time during the week figuring things out?

Taking initiative and solving your own problems are one thing. Guessing about ill-defined projects or "secret" assignments is a very poor way to manage your workforce.

+EA +Tduds It’s one thing to know how to handle downtime or the natural fluctuations of projects, or have a key mentor in the firm, it’s another thing entirely not to be able to rely on mgmt...to do their job...