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Is Architecture Worth it?

268
Kraye

Hi,

I am very young person (15) who aspires to become an architect. I practice my ideas via doodles, drawings, observing, Minecraft (don't judge.), SketchUp, and inspiration from places such as my own area, major cities and sometimes internationally (SK, England, Japan, etc.) But I've been reading some of the pros and cons of Architecture and it's making my possible decision debatable. 

 I've seen a lot more cons recently than pros, and I'd like to hear from people who are a) In university/college right now and how their experiences are, b) in the profession already, c) or have gone internationally and been in different firms around the world. Also for what classes I should do before college in Junior and Senior year to prepare for the worst and best.

I'm already going to attempt to get more experience in the summer by taking architecture camps that universities offer around the US, when able, do visual arts and design at school, and plan to double up in Math to get Trig and Pre-Calc done side by side since Math isn't hard. 

Thanks for reading and I hope you have some feedback for a possible future architect :)

- Kraye

 
Mar 16, 18 6:42 pm
OneLostArchitect

Yo Kraye... Don’t want to crush your dreams kid... but choose a different career path that pays money. I regret becoming an architect to be honest with you. My wife makes double what I make with a freaking associates degree! Anyways alittle bit about me... I went to a highly regarded university for 6 years ... masters... finished my IDP hours managing huge projects making 7.25 an hour at a star architect office. Ive traveled all over Europe visiting firms and they barely paid. Everything about architecture is romantic, it sounds beautiful, you want to change the world... blah blah blah... then reality kicks you in the balls when you are detailing washrooms for Taco Bells. Internships anywhere barely pay a living wage... and I am barely getting by as a licensed architect with over the years experience. If your not from a wealthy family I recommend not getting in this profession at all. Run kid! Run! 

Mar 16, 18 8:24 pm  · 
9  · 
OneLostArchitect

*ten years experience

Mar 16, 18 8:26 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

I received a living wage 2 weeks following graduation. Not everyone ends up like you.

Mar 16, 18 8:30 pm  · 
2  · 
Kraye

Hm. You must've had a hard time but I know it's hard to be a "Good" architect unless you can think outside of the normal and make it look good or do something not everyone else is doing. Hopefully you can go choose a new career (it's never too late to try managing)

Mar 16, 18 10:47 pm  · 
2  · 
OneLostArchitect

Not everyone ends up like me? How much are you making? I’m sure it’s no where near 100k a year... and what is a living wage for you NS? I’m not trying to be a dick here but that means many things to many people. For example in Canada a living wage is considered $15 an hour the national minimum wage. The fact is that historically if you take the traditional path through this profession you are fucked. Plan and simple. I am not going to lead a kid down a shitty path where so much energy and effort does not pay out to what you will ultimately be making. You will have to pay your dues before making a decent living. You are not going to be rolling down the road with a Benz. This whole bullshit to follow your dreams ... it’s bullshit. Try to support a family of 3 and barely being home with your family. Missing your kids soccer game cause you have to work unpaid overtime. Be stresssed to your wits with contractors cutting every possible corner and looking for every error and omission on your drawings to fuck you. I can go on and on and on. It’s not a glamorous job and I will not sugar coat it. Kraye can take this advice or he can learn the hard way like many of us have...

Mar 17, 18 1:16 am  · 
9  · 
OneLostArchitect

Being good does

Mar 17, 18 1:29 am  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Lost, I’m in Canada too. Started making $45k per year 10y ago and moved up steadily from there. I’ve got great flexibility for my family, freedom to work how I please and plenty of large projects under my belt. I’m now considered “senior” and although there still the washroom or shitty fit up gigs, there are plenty of
interesting challenges.

Mar 17, 18 6:50 am  · 
1  · 
Kraye

Architecture is defiantly not a glamorous job, but it's unique. But who knows I may end up hating it and doing something else or enjoy it and keep going with high pay or decent pay (aka like Idk what's "Decent" but I assume ~60-70k) 100k is hard to get and not everyone will ever. get to it.

Mar 17, 18 8:51 am  · 
1  · 
geezertect

Be aware: If you think 60-70K is decent after six years of college, IDP, licensing exam, student debt, etc., your standards are waaayyyy too low. You can deliver packages for FedEx and make more.  And most architecture jobs are in larger, expensive cities.  100K a year in Dubuque, Iowa may be good money, but you'll be living in a cardboard box if you're in San Fran.

Mar 17, 18 11:27 am  · 
11  · 
tduds

I'm happy at my job and I can afford the things I need to maintain a pleasurable lifestyle. Who gives a fuck about anything more than that? If the FedEx driver makes more, that's great for them!

Mar 23, 18 6:09 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

I've always felt that if your ultimate goal is money, best case scenario is you end up a miserable rich person.

Mar 23, 18 6:10 pm  · 
1  ·  1
dc1

Non Sequitur is speaking from a place of contentment. I can appreciate that. He makes a decent salary, but is happy with it. OneLostArchitect is speaking from a place of wanting more in life, which I can also appreciate. Frankly, I have been on both sides of the fence. If you are either the content type of person ... or ... ambitious from an artistic standpoint and do not care much for your finances, then stay in architecture and do your best and you will achieve a small level of financial freedom - even with big projects under your belt. But if you are ambitious from a financial standpoint, leave the profession, which is what I did. I love architecture, but not as much as I love luxury. Not trying to be a dick or anything, but I am now the envy of some of my Non Sequitur type ex colleagues. In finance for example, you will make anywhere from double to ten times what you make in architecture for the same amount of work. I am what some of my architect friends call a 'sell out'. Which is true. It comes down to what you want for yourself and your family. But think about it, while architecture is for dreamers, a life of luxury (unattainable for 99 percent of architects out there) in itself is also a dream isnt it? It comes down to what you want for yourself, but make the decision early. OneLostArchitect's comments resonated deeply within me because it was what I went through. I took the same path he did without any regrets and am now living a life that others envy. But that in itself has its own separate set of problems.

Nov 17, 19 3:03 pm  · 
5  · 
dc1

tduds , thats so typical. Why do architects always love to think only in black or white? As you said - Its either passion or miserable rich person for you. Architecture school has poisoned you into thinking that making money as a goal (even if its one of many life's goals) is an inherent evil. What about those who are in the grey areas - passionate about what they do (non-architecture related) and all round happy and able to provide very well for their family, with a healthy degree of contentment? It comes down to individual choices on what really matters to them. Life is not always black and white.

Nov 17, 19 4:15 pm  · 
1  · 
dan1

Agree with OneLostArchitect here.

May 5, 21 2:40 am  · 
4  · 
dan1

If you are sane money matter more than passion.

May 5, 21 2:41 am  · 
1  · 
dan1

Not talking about being rich here, just planning to have a balanced life where you can afford simple stuff, put some money aside and pay a mortgage.

May 5, 21 2:43 am  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Kraye, pay little attention to the above.  Granted plenty of folks are dumb enough to work unpaid internships and stay in bad environments, but most move on and build careers.  Sure there are the typical dead ends of interchangeable CAD / 3D staff, but plenty more get to play architect and mange construction projects.

What you need to think about is: Do you actually like to think about buildings... and not just in broad design strokes but actually how pieces go together.  You'll need to get a good grasp of construction techniques, budget and time management, in addition to creative problem solving before you think about the superficial.

It's a long and difficult path but there are rewards if you make the most of it instead of crying foul because your expensive school did not turn you into a rockstar.

Mar 16, 18 8:36 pm  · 
1  · 
Kraye

Yeah I've seen 50/50 on Architects and I'm not sure what people consider "Low pay", what areas they are doing, etc. And atm yes I do, I live in a place where new architecture is being made everyday while the old is still loved by many (100 yr + homes). I've realized that I shouldn't design big homes or stuff but instead make reasonable sized apartments or homes or if I want to go broad create something like idk.. a museum shell. I'm still not sure what college to go to for architecture because two of my top choices for college have a gap in price of 50k with a supposed difference of income with the 70k (USC) making 1k more than the 20k (Cali Poly Tech).

Mar 16, 18 10:50 pm  · 
1  · 
OneLostArchitect

Dumb? Oh fuck off NS... you are like many other dreamers I went to school with. I never wanted to be a rockstar... just make a decent living, support a family, and have a good work life balance. That’s all.

Mar 17, 18 1:27 am  · 
4  · 
Kraye

I mean being optimistic can help push through stress even now, but I know it won't go far enough. As long as I can make a decent living, support a family, and have a good work life balance, I'll be satisfied through the salary aspect. It's more my worry I'll not have the proper style for the current time whenever or if I should try to either "modernize old styles" or make something way new.

Mar 17, 18 8:48 am  · 
1  · 
dc1

Kraye its simple. If you want numbers : To get paid at least USD 100,000 per year as an architect could take you at least 10 years or more or never. To get paid at least USD 100,000 per year in other professions like tech or finance you can do it anywhere from 1 to 3 years. Imagine where your salary would be 10 years after that in tech / finance? Anywhere from USD 250k a year to a few million USD a year - depending on how good you are. So it comes down to contentment - how much is enough for you and your family. I was ambitious financially - unlike some of my more conservative architect friends who are still dreaming design. So i left and never looked back. But remember, sometimes the profession chooses you, not the other way around. You have to be good at what you do to earn lots of money. So, choose a profession you love that you know can pay you well - if money is one part of your objective. If not, then choose architecture.

Nov 17, 19 3:07 pm  · 
5  · 
dc1

Oh, one more simple truth - Apart from those who are contented with their profession.... I have never, ever, met anyone who left one profession to pursue a better paying profession have deep regrets (since they have the option of downgrading to a lower paying job for the sake of passion at any time). But I have met people who never dared to make the switch from one profession to another end up depressed at what they do.

Nov 17, 19 3:35 pm  · 
6  · 
geezertect

^  What LOST said times ten!  It's a terrible profession.  Low pay.  Long hours.  High legal liability.  Poor job security.  No respect from the rest of the construction industry, or from most clients.  Don't listen to the follow-your-dream bullshit, unless your dream is to always be the poor boy in your social circle.  You may not think you care now, but the constant reminders of how under paid you are will really eat on you, particularly when "everybody" seems to be doing better than you.

Don't say we didn't warn you.



Mar 16, 18 8:38 pm  · 
10  · 
Kraye

I'd like to know what do you consider "Low pay", I know the long hours, well yes there's alot of things you're liable for, the career is wonky and have it's ups and downs, how bad have you experienced (also are you male or female because there may be a sexism issue), and I'll still probably be the poor boy in the social circle since all my friends want to be lawyers or doctors etc. And time will tell :)

Mar 16, 18 10:53 pm  · 
1  · 
OneLostArchitect

Just to add to geezers comments... you are also at the mercy of the economy. I survived the Great Recession of 2017 and a lot of my colleagues were not so lucky. Right now the profession is rolling along nicely... but it’s all a big cycle. wait till the next economic crash which is more than likely the time have a use you might be entering.

Mar 17, 18 12:59 am  · 
1  · 
OneLostArchitect

*2007... it’s past my bedtime

Mar 17, 18 1:17 am  · 
1  · 
Kraye

2007 was a rough time for anyone, Idk how the industry will be like when I would conceivably graduate college in 2025 or 2026.

Mar 17, 18 8:45 am  · 
1  · 
geezertect

After six years of higher ed., possibly even an Ivy degree(s), you should expect to make what other professionals with similar credentials make. You won't. Check out median earnings of dentists, CPA's, corporate middle managers, etc. They will be way ahead of you.

Mar 17, 18 12:02 pm  · 
1  · 
geezertect

As for the economy, it will always be cyclical. And real estate/construction will always get hit harder than most because it runs on borrowed money. Unemployment offices will always look and smell the same.

Mar 17, 18 12:07 pm  · 
1  · 
dc1

Kraye, if you want to know what 'low pay' means it is subjective. From an architect's perspective, low pay would have an entirely different meaning from a financier's perspective. Having been on both sides of the fence, I can tell you from first hand experience that a good handful of architects may dream of the USD 100k salary ... but this is considered very low in Wall St where the average salary ranges from USD 300k to USD 700k (average USD 500k). So low is very subjective. Ask yourself which is more important to you, then make a firm decision to follow through on whether to leave architecture or stay. I completely understand Non Sequitur's approach to life, he is content and that I admire. But I also understand OneLost Architect's view, which resonates closer to me. Some may call you a sell out. But trust me - you will not care about the negativity once you start staying in the best homes, driving the best cars and having a gorgeous bombshell of a wife right next to you. As for those who throw dirt on your party, they probably do so because they are just jealous. Ask yourself which is more important without concern about being a sell out. You will find your truth there.

Nov 17, 19 3:23 pm  · 
1  · 
dc1

And what geezertect said about being the poor boy in the circle. He is right. You may not care about it now. But you will start to feel it as you grow older. You might even shy away from your friends in more financially lucrative professions because you know they move in 'higher' circles. Make the switch while you are young if this is important to you. However, if you are strong in the realm of contentment, then I'd say follow your dream in being an architect. I personally know my limitations and don't think I am the contented type. So I left the profession and have had no regrets.

Nov 17, 19 3:44 pm  · 
 · 
joseffischer

sigh, gotta check the timestamps on these.

Nov 17, 19 10:16 pm  · 
 · 
LITS4FormZ

Go to salaries.archinect.com for an honest look at compensation. Pick a city where you think you’d like to work and if there are entries you’ll see what architects generally earn. 


Architects compare themselves to engineers, lawyers and doctors because they go through many years of college education, internships and exams. Not exactly apples to apples comparison but that’s how they view themselves. 


All of the posts above show real perspectives. Yes you can carve out a nice living in this profession if you’re willing to take some chances and expand your skill set outside of “architecture.”


That being said, there are a lot of people who struggle and often through no fault of their own in the profession. As has been mentioned above, everything is cyclical. Boom and bust periods will happen and how you make it through the slow times will define your career and livelihood. 







Mar 17, 18 2:24 am  · 
1  · 
Kraye

I have for a few places I want to possibly go and my own area.. And in what way do you mean "expand" also yes it's very wonky of a business where crashes will break people and their jobs.

Mar 17, 18 8:52 am  · 
 · 
ahmad4343

if you are after money then it is not worth it because there are other professions who make double salary than architecture. if you are after your passion then it is worth it. 
however you could consider related professions like project management,  construction management who pays higher than architecture  or bachelor of architecture and master of construction management.  

Mar 17, 18 3:47 am  · 
 · 
Kraye

Not bc of money don't worry. I like managing but I'm not sure.. hmmm.

Mar 17, 18 8:53 am  · 
 · 
Nevets22

Construction management and project management doesn't necessarily require a degree. I work in project management and my only post secondary education was to become an electrician.

Apr 1, 19 6:11 pm  · 
 · 

Whether or not it is worth it is only a judgement that you can make. 

Some people invest heavily in education and spend a long time in shitty underpaid jobs trying to pay down big loans. Some easily afford the best schools and don't really need to make money in the profession. Intelligence and ambition are good but no matter how good you are a lot depends on luck. 

An important thing to recognize from the start is that the education is shit in that it does not prepare you to do anything other than enter the workforce as a peon. As such I would advise a non-traditional path that maximizes your experience and practical knowledge before going to arch school. 

You should work construction to see first-hand how buildings are built. You should take life drawing classes and draw every day. You should select architecture schools based on their technical programs, I'm a few decades out but it used to be that a 2 year BS that focused on the technical aspects of architecture was much better than a 4-5 year "arty" education at some fancy design school. The best educational path now seems to be undergrad in a quasi-related area and a masters in Arch. 

There is a significant amount of liability and legal BS attached to a license, and the reality of the regulatory environment often makes the job largely administrative (this is the part I hate). Then there are the kinds of projects available and by extension the kinds of clients. You can read about that here with some searching.

I've barely touched the issues, there is a great deal more than this to learn and the only way you will learn it is by doing it. Keep in mind that you don't have to be licensed or even have an arch degree to design buildings, you just have to a client and put together the team of people necessary to accomplish the necessary responsibilities. 

There is no one path. What matters is that your heart is on the path you're on. If it's not your life will be miserable and you should switch paths immediately. In the end there is nowhere to get to, it's all just a journey.

Mar 17, 18 10:22 am  · 
4  · 
geezertect

^ Great post.

Mar 17, 18 12:27 pm  · 
1  · 
Sharky McPeterson

Yes, agreed, great post. I wholeheartedly agree with Miles's suggestion to consider 2 year technical programs, though I still must say the 4-5 year "arty" degree may still look better (i.e., ~top 10 schools) on paper and thus allow you to more easily get your foot in the door. A program that focuses on more technical aspects will better prepare you for starting your career, but again: "An important thing to recognize from the start is that the education is shit in that it does not prepare you to do anything other than enter the workforce as a peon." Just spitballing.

Sep 27, 18 6:51 pm  · 
1  · 
Wilma Buttfit

See if you can go visit or better yet work in an architect's office this summer. Work construction for at least a summer too. 

Mar 17, 18 12:01 pm  · 
 · 
joseffischer

Does anyone's firm actually do this? The only times I've seen a highschooler at the firms I've worked at is when the kid was one of the partners' children/neices/nephews. They never touched redlines or software of any kind. They did grunt work for the admin assistants and got coffee, etc. The ones who would listen or had their eyes open recognized that at a highschool level, they could perform what interns with 4-year bachelors were doing, and connected the dots to understand that the 4-year bachelor interns were being paid highschool level wages. They either recognized that they'd run the company one day because of their name, or recognized that there was no reason to stick around or go into the profession.

Mar 26, 18 5:23 pm  · 
3  · 
Wilma Buttfit

Great response jose. You either figure out if you are privileged enough or that you'd never want to work in an architecture firm. I grew up 90 miles from any sizable city so I never got to see much of anything as a high schooler much less a professional office. Hence the advice (don't do what I did.)

Mar 28, 18 10:22 am  · 
 · 
BulgarBlogger

Everyone bitches about money... I once dated a doctor who was bitching that her salary was too low compared to other doctors. She worked at a non profit earning $220k a year and she said many of her peer doctors earned $400k+ a year in the private sector. So its all relative... 

That aside, there are a few different reasons for why most people dont earn that 100k...

1. They are not technically experienced enough. So many people believe that school/college is supposed to teach you enough about everything... wrong! You have to do a lot of self study instead of just making babies and "relaxing" on the weekends.

2. Most people do not understand the importance of making a profit for a business. A professional, by definition is someone who learns a trade so he can make a living off of that trade, be it architecture, law, medicine, engineering, etc. I can't tell you how many people start detailing cabinetry to a level that shop drawings would usually be detailed at. Architects are generally inefficient because many don't understand their contractual obligation. They tend to "overdo" because they think that by "overdoing" they will be limiting their professional liability. Doing enlarged plans showing stud layouts etc. for example is a waste of time and greatly impacts efficiency. Means and methods are the contractor's responsibility!

3. Many people "wing" their software skills while at a firm. They claim to be X on their resume, but they are Y in reality. By the time the firm realizes the employee is "Y" they either can't afford to fire them or they are willing to live or "Get-by" with a sub-par employee- usually blaming it on age...

4. Clients with a lot of money usually don't want to entrust their real estate investment to younger people because they view inexperience as a risk. Therefore, those who are able to bring in work or maintain good relationship and thereby bring in repeat clients are the older staff, and those older staff members are the ones who get paid the "big bucks".


Mar 17, 18 12:31 pm  · 
 ·  2
joseffischer

Shrug, we've got a lot of slow people in the office, and that's a problem. Still, overall, unless you're a PA, I'd expect you to be detailing and setting up sheets according to the firm's standards and the PA's guidelines, and I'd expect the firm to be able to make money off of you. I agree we show way too much, but I've not been sued yet, nor have I had to stand in front of a jury trying to explain my specs and drawings to prove that it wasn't a design flaw. *shrug* I've heard that architects are billed out at $120 and interns at $85. I've also heard that excepting extenuating circumstances, highest ups are billed at $225. These numbers are way lower than billings for doctors, lawyers, etc... so there's only so much efficiency you can squeeze out of those numbers. You're not going to make the formula work out paying a PA $200k and billing him at $150, for instance.

Mar 26, 18 5:29 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

I've been looking around (for like months when I have the time) and I'm also wondering, besides all of the moving and citizenship issues, is it worth it trying to move to another country for architecture? 

There's a few countries I have in mind that if I have the opportunity, to try to move to another country. 

If not, is it worth going to like the top top architecture schools (like ivy status) or should I just be looking at pretty good schools (by many standards)  that sometimes won't be costing me tens of thousands of dollars?

Mar 17, 18 3:13 pm  · 
 · 
archinine
No. It isn’t. If you like buildings and ever want a normal life go into development, engineering or construction. If you like art and need a living wage and decent career path with options go into graphic design marketing or fashion. Any of those and plenty more pay substantially more than architecture with way less liability, schooling and licensing requirements.
Mar 17, 18 3:58 pm  · 
2  · 

Honestly, outside of maybe helping you land a job when you get out of school the name of the school doesn't help much. Get as much as you can out of whatever school you end up attending. Honestly this profession is what you make of it. Sure, some are stuck in underpaying jobs and are miserable - yet do nothing about it besides bitch on internet message boards. But others are in jobs they really love, working on projects they really enjoy and making decent money. And, truth be told, architecture does underpay a bit - but that seems to be changing. 50k starting salaries are starting to become the norm, at least in Chicago (based on what I've heard recently). That said, a recession could come and completely wipe that out.

Architecture is what you make of it. You can sell out and make money "designing" Wal-Marts and McDonalds where you are just churning and burning the same sets over and over. You can work for a contractor or on the owner side of things. You can aim to be the designer and work in a boutique firm (these firms are historically known to underpay because of the name on the door - it is a "privilege" to work there kind of thing), but you may be happy working there. It really depends on what you want to do. Personally, I have a decent salary that lets me pay off my bills and save up without being hampered by my student loans, and I enjoy the projects I work on. While I do wish I could work on some of the cool stuff that gets published everywhere, the work I do has a tangible impact on people's lives and that is more important to me. Plus I side-hustle some too. I have a decent work-life balance that allows me to paint (and I make money off my paintings), volunteer with a local neighborhood group, and I also coach Emerging Professionals through the ARE, and I'm involved with the local AIA Chapter. That just barely scratches the surface of what you can do in the profession.

Do I dislike architecture sometimes? Yeah, we all do. Door Hardware schedules suck. Sometimes the GC can really piss you off. Sometimes you're stuck in administrative hell. But.... then you see one of your designs/something you helped design be completed and be an actual, real, tangible building. That part makes all the bad parts worth it. I've had ups and downs in my 6 years post graduation in this profession. I've had times where I didn't want to go to work, and I've had times where I was ready to go because I thought of a great idea the night before and wanted to test it out. I can go on and on, but overall I love what I do and I can't imagine being in any other profession.

TL;DR - don't listen to everything you read on the internet, because it tends to be negative. 

Mar 17, 18 4:03 pm  · 
1  · 
Kraye

So it’s not 100% worth trying to get into an expensive af college just to say you went there and get the supposedly best architecture education? Also I know no job is overall “ideal” and ensures wealth forever. What style of Architecture do you do that is making you feel mostly good but also can feel annoyed at times?

Mar 18, 18 9:38 am  · 
 · 

Go to a school that is teaching and whose student portfolios look like the architecture you are interested in. Many state schools are very good, if you do the 4 +2 route you can get a perspective from two different programs. Take time to figure this out as it is your career and it is worth taking all the time you need to make an informed decision.

Mar 26, 18 10:01 am  · 
 · 
joseffischer

The 5 year professional route is really nice for a number of reasons surrounding the scholarship money on the table for undergrads compared to grads, the 1 year less of tuition, and the cost difference for graduate programs vs undergrads. I went to Georgia Tech 4+2 and at the time, didn't even know about Auburn's 5 year professional program. I didn't even decide on architecture until my freshman orientation program. My family is in the construction trades (laborers... first to go to college) and many of the engineering options sounded quite boring. $$ wise, if I wanted to do it over again and stay on the design side, I should have chosen Electrical Engineering, though most programs, gatech included, teach micro electrical engineering (computers) way more than your basics. Also, many EEs end up working for the local power company, designing power stations, etc. In fact, word on the street is your structural engineer, civil engineer, EE, ME, and PE are all basically the C students in school who couldn't get a better/more mainstream roll in their respective trades. YMMV

Mar 26, 18 5:36 pm  · 
 · 
fabrosa

Go and enjoy one of themsot beautiful courses! If you love it ...go and do it! I am a successful IT professional that heard the bad advice at 19 and dropped from Arch School. 20 years later, at 39 and with a good salary I am back at uni doing what I love. Money is good but satisfaction is better...Money is an answer of what you do well and value myself. Had lived and travelled and experienced other paths I am never been so sure that the Arch Degree is for me...If I never work or get my registration I will still be satisfied....Go what you feel is right a
nd enjoy

Oct 24, 21 1:30 pm  · 
 · 
hellion

What Miles said ^

Go pursue architecture if it's really what you're passionate about. But also be open to pursue other activities that can help you earn extra. I think with the turn of our global economy today, working and earning from one job is somehow not enough. I have colleagues who have moved overseas for bigger salaries, but it's still not enough for them so they put some of it into investments (land, small commercial building projects, stocks, businesses, venture into construction, etc.) while some want to hone their other skills so they take on side jobs different from what they normally do. Also, with bigger salaries come bigger challenges, responsibilities, stress levels, taxes, etc. What's important for them was, with what they earned, their money was growing and moving. We need money to live, but you shouldn't make it the central priority of choosing what you want to do with your life. There are other professions that will let you earn more compared to architecture, but take note all professions succumb to their own (and sometimes shared) hardships so you have to prepare yourself for that as well. In the end, only you can carve your own journey and outcome in this profession. 

Mar 17, 18 4:23 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Alrightly, I’m thinking on minoring in some business field to be able to eventually make a firm, is that a good idea even if the whole architect job doesn’t go well? One of my family members went to college for Engineering and now is a manager of a big for its purpose place and does fine I think.

Mar 18, 18 9:35 am  · 
 · 
hellion

Yes. Taking business subjects or exposing yourself to business/management is always a good route. It's something you're not really exposed to in academe: the business of architecture, whether it's running a firm, real estate, etc. These are things you'll essentially need to know later on. It can help you run a firm, but more so it can help you (knowledgeably) with taking on other ventures as well.

Mar 18, 18 10:00 am  · 
 · 

What is "It"?

Mar 17, 18 7:09 pm  · 
 · 
geezertect

The sacrifice.

Mar 18, 18 9:41 am  · 
 · 
archeyarch

architecture is a fascinating field, but not necessarily one that you would want to make a living from.  Ideally one could could be involved in it for personal enrichment and derive their living from another field, but when you become tied down with crazy deadlines, long hours, lacking pay, then you begin to question it. 

Mar 17, 18 10:57 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Is is worse than high school stress? (I haven’t had a “breakdown” yet but ppl get very stressful) What is (in your mind) an ideal wage?

Mar 18, 18 9:32 am  · 
 · 
geezertect

Yes.  Not that high school is always a day at the beach, but adult stress goes on and on.

Mar 18, 18 9:42 am  · 
1  · 
Kraye

Ah okk. I also Heard your social skills help a lot if you don’t make good impressions in stuff, you’ll struggle more even if you’re the best designer in town

Mar 18, 18 9:55 am  · 
 · 

A lot of people without any talent, skill or much intelligence make it on social skills alone. Reread this entire thread, and do it without looking for answers that reinforce your beliefs.

Mar 18, 18 12:19 pm  · 
1  · 
Volunteer

Do what you like to do, what you can do, and what someone will pay you to do. Fifteen is far too young to zero in on anything. I have been advising somewhat older students to consider civil engineering. It has better pay, more job security, a wider range of specialties, and a more collegial workplace environment.

Mar 18, 18 2:13 pm  · 
1  · 
geezertect

And more relevance to the real world.  Not just a bunch of architectural cliches that will look dumb, hokey and dated in a few years when the current idioms fall from favor, as they inevitably do.



Mar 18, 18 3:37 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Looked into that too last year we’ll see how it all turns out also geezertect Wdum with your second sentence?

Mar 23, 18 4:26 pm  · 
 · 
geezertect

Civil engineering involves providing sanitation facilities, potable drinking water, safe bridges, efficient infrastructure, etc. Most of your architectural education will be some type of aesthetic theorizing, which doesn't do the vast majority of people any good. Just a little artsy game. The real world of practice is somewhat more relevant, but a lot of the most important practical things have been farmed out to consultants, because the architects have been brainwashed that anything other than art is just too pedestrian and beneath them. You get this mindset in school and some folks never outgrow it.

Mar 23, 18 5:49 pm  · 
 · 
joseffischer

I thought we were brainwashed into fearing responsibility and risk. My wife, a civil eng, went the transit route, and except for our conversations, has no idea how buildings/bridges/roads/culverts/etc (transit related or otherwise) work. Instead she can tell you about airport traffic control related issues, bus timing and bus/transit mapping systems, etc. She has fancy charts and specialized software (partly designed by her) to tell her the whens, hows, whys, what-to-dos, etc surrounding any hiccup in a system, say a late or broken down bus, repair schedules on any given plane, etc.

Mar 26, 18 5:50 pm  · 
 · 
dedicatedbydesign

Despite a lot of negative comments being excused as "reality checks," I think you should do whatever you think is right for you Kraye. Go out there and build. Put your mind into it. If you don't enjoy it, change major, no pressure. You still have a lot of time to decide so just look into it. People act like it's the end of the world and would tell you "you won't make it this you won't make it that...," just because they aren't content with whatever situation they're in. For the user geezertect to dismiss the arts like the world doesn't indulge in them on the daily, you're missing the point. There's no such architect who would think that "anything other than art is pedestrian or beneath them." They have all the respects for other STEM majors as they do for the Humanities. It's a balance in between the arts and sciences, so don't mindlessly dismiss their efforts and contribution to the society. Did you even think about what you said? Yes, there are ups and downs to this field, but each person have it differently. Many of those who are discontent with it are the same people who only looks for financial stability. It's completely understandable, as they want to earn a living and support their family or even themselves (which I don't think many of the architects who lives alone have trouble in). But there are also those who wants to see the world and travel, take on many different projects. They can work for the entertainment industry, urban planning and design, landscape design, generally any field to make the world look better. I can guarantee you it's not only the arts involved in this major. Although of course, aesthetic elements are needed to enhance a structure's appeal to occupiers. The place you live in, the restaurants you've been to, the museums, theme parks you visit, or literally almost any building you've encounter, an architect's behind the design so yeah, they're highly in demand. Civil Engineer isn't for everyone, same goes for doctors and lawyers. Tons of people want to major in that and ends up changing or dropping out. Imagine suggesting someone to be a surgeon when they just want to be a veterinarian and be around animals.

Sep 18, 19 11:58 pm  · 
 · 
BulgarBlogger

Fifteen is far too young to zero in on anything.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The earlier you learn a trade, the more-likely you'll master it earlier. Otherwise you'll be stuck with a $200k+ debt for a college education you probably won't learn much from and then realize that it is not something you'd want to do for the rest of your life. Get started on something early; don't wait till you're 30 when you'd want to start a family that you'll need to support without knowing what you want to do in life. Promoting this idea that "its too early" bullshit is bullshit. This is why we have lost souls in this country who are still living in daddy's basement.

Mar 18, 18 4:44 pm  · 
 · 
Volunteer

I am just saying the poster should consider civil engineering. He can go to the best state schools for $10,000 to $14,000 a year if he is an in-state student. These are schools like Georgia Tech, University of Illinois, University of Michigan, Purdue University, University of Texas, Texas A&M, University of Wisconsin, ect. Those schools are ranked far higher in engineering than the Ivy's that charge $60,000 at up. Students the poster's age have a variety of interests and abilities they should explore. Pigeonholing himself into a slot as severely-indebted architect cad-monkey is not very wise. Those are precisely the poor graduates who are in their parents' basement.

Mar 18, 18 4:55 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

1) I’m a she

Mar 23, 18 4:21 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

2) I just Went on a college “road trip” and saw 12 colleges from sunday to today and creating pros and cons. I have time to figure out what exactly but architecture is my start and I know You can do more can just architecture with it if you do it right. But yes it’s true I could Either try for a really expensive school (like USC with a 72k yr cost) or cheaper (public universities or Cali Poly tech ~27k a year? Cost) and could get the exact same education. Als
o ivy in my mind is overrated.

Mar 23, 18 4:24 pm  · 
 · 
geezertect

$72K a year for an architecture degree is certifiable lunacy. Don't do it.

Mar 23, 18 5:56 pm  · 
 · 
Wilma Buttfit

Cal poly at Obispo is a good school. Learn as much as you can OUTSIDE of school though too.

Mar 24, 18 9:43 am  · 
 · 
Kraye

Yep i know Cal Poly Tech is what I want to get into #1 choice. The average GPA is really high though considering it's over 4.0 and my school doesn't do weighed GPAs.

Mar 24, 18 8:46 pm  · 
 · 
atelier nobody

Both of the Cal Polys, SLO & Pomona, are good schools - I have worked with many graduates of both, as well as many graduates of "more prestigious" schools, and I have seen little difference in the ability levels.

Apr 1, 19 7:42 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

kraye, we need you in the profession. Period. Full stop. I want to see what you do with Minecraft, in fact I'm excited to see what you do with it, because I've been telling everyone I know, that the Minecraft generation of architects are going to be doing things that no one is thinking about today.


Keep rocking on, rocking out, and take names along the way.

Mar 23, 18 4:27 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

Code like your life depends on it.

Mar 23, 18 4:28 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

I go on. creatice servers and build and not many have said that they rlly want to be architects but MC really helps me visualize my build ideas. I draw A front view, and simple floor plans. Build the front and build the outlines for the build and then go from there and try to build something cool. Then if Id want to, redraw the full thing from MC and see how it looks again on drawing. Minecraft is underrated but building on it helps so much despite the blocky limits.

Mar 23, 18 7:33 pm  · 
 · 
newguy

Isn't Minecraft just a digital Lego universe?

Sep 20, 18 8:43 pm  · 
 · 
JoeyTheGiant

Kraye, I'm with @ken on this. Keep digging and making and designing. You should research SCI-Arc (a way overpriced school) but they teach a lot of overlap between architecture, gaming and animation. They are LA-based and there's so much money to be made in the tech/gaming side of architectural design. The degree in architecture itself isn't totally useless. You can use it as a launchpad into other fields.

Mar 20, 20 8:15 pm  · 
 · 
accesskb

Seriously, iIf you're already thinking about whether this career is worth it or not and having doubts, I'd say no.  I think one should be extremely passionate about it and have no doubts especially so early on to survive.  Looking back to when I decided to study architecture, I don't think what anyone said or what stats I saw would've changed my mind about going to study architecture.  Money didn't even cross my mind. :D  I was just fascinated by how buildings are constructed and the potential of built structures to enhance human experience and life. My advice - go travel and experience some historic cities if you haven't.  See if that inspires you first.

Mar 23, 18 6:28 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Oh I’ve been reading all these msgs and the bad rllydont get to me and I’ve heard worse and I’ve seen the best my mind still hasn’t changed my mind on not doing it. But Id like to thank everyone in the thread with their viewpoint on Architecture so I see The best worse happiest and saddest etc. seeing other points of views have helped me a lot and my mind Is still the same. All now is for me to decide my style and on this trip seeing the college architecture styles I’ve seen what I like, dislike and now trying to think of “styles” to I guess “Master” to make me unique to other architects

Mar 23, 18 7:28 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Fate, luck, others, and your own choosing help shape your path. I didnt even know Architecture was a huge career till 2 years ago when my friends parent mentioned they hired an architect to make their incredible house (and really expensive). And there’s some clues in photos of my interests in design and buildings. But I’ve always wanted something related to STEM and technically architecture if you look at it properly is a STEAM.

Mar 23, 18 9:19 pm  · 
 · 
geezertect

Architecture is a Steam? You mean it's vaporous. I agree.

Mar 23, 18 9:36 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

STEAM = Science Technology Engineering (Art) and Mathematics. I said STEAM since there's some art aspect in it.

Mar 24, 18 9:30 am  · 
 · 
accesskb

If STEM is what you're interested in, make sure you pick the right school. Sure, most architecture schools involve STEM to some degree but its very basic. Engineers would think its a joke. Not to say there aren't architectural school that aren't heavily STEM focused.

Mar 25, 18 1:21 am  · 
 · 
Kraye

Alright it's STEM. Some camps have called it STEAM so I assumed. And yeah some schools are more design focused than the actual structure being stable.

Mar 25, 18 8:36 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

It’s impossible to ask others if something is “worth” it, and also impossible to know enough about yourself at your age to determine that.  My advice to any young person, go to undergrad and get a degree in something that is relevant to other fields, then if you still want to do architecture enroll in a 3 year masters program.  Along the way, shadow an architect for a few weeks, read all that you can, take some art classes, some arch electives, and THINK about what you want out of life.  Money is important, but not enough.  Happiness is not enough either.  Think about what will fulfill you, give your life purpose, and provide the stability or flexibility to do the things that you want.   Fulfillment and Purpose are the things that keep you going as life shits on you over and over again....

Mar 24, 18 11:11 am  · 
 · 
BulgarBlogger

Read a book called “Mastery” by Robert Greene

Mar 24, 18 11:40 am  · 
 · 
Kraye

I'll look it up

Mar 24, 18 3:08 pm  · 
 · 
Sean!

I think architecture is great major. I also think the design and construction industry is full of great professional opportunities. 


Keep in mind if you choose to take the traditional architecture path there are a lot of choices. You can work for a big global firm or a small firm, you can do core and shell, houses, or interior fit-outs and everything in between. Also there’s a lot of diversity in roles, you can do design work, you can do more technical roles. You can work out in the field with the contractors. 


But there are a lot of other “non-traditional” paths you can choose. You can work for: 
A developer 
As an owners rep
For an engineering firm
For a specialty consultant 
For a construction firm 
A strategy consulting firm 
The government 
For a start up
Also, almost every Fortune 500 company has a in-house design and construction department. I could keep going...


I really enjoy what I do. I found the career path that works best for me. But no matter what career you choose here’s some advice:
Build a solid network and cultivate it.
Find people in roles/ jobs that you’re interested and ask how they got there.
Keep a positive attitude and have fun.


Good luck! 

Mar 24, 18 12:33 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Also one random question: I'm thinking of learning a language or two to be able to at least carry out a conversation. I'm going to learn Korean and maybe re-pick up Spanish. What else should I maybe look into and would it benefit me in the field to know other languages if I were to try to go global?

Mar 24, 18 3:12 pm  · 
 · 
Wilma Buttfit

Yes. There are good opportunities for western trained architects in other countries.

Mar 24, 18 3:38 pm  · 
 · 
atelier nobody

If you want to work internationally, think of where you'd like to go and learn that language. If you think you'll ultimately end up back in SoCal, Spanish is great, because you'll be able to communicate with construction crews a lot better than I can.

Apr 1, 19 7:45 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Seems like you've got a plan and are preparing yourself. Just go for it, give it a try, life's too short to only work for the money, let's say you'll be working 40 hrs a week for 40 years among people that you despise doing something you hate just because of the pay, I'd shoot myself.  My god, you're already thinking about specific subjects etc. you don't want to know what I was doing at your age. Godspeed! Oh and travel, travel as much as possible!

Mar 24, 18 3:21 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Been starting one since about last year. But I'm only a freshman right now so I have time to get stuff set up to tackle the world. Stuff may change by then but young age is still a thing, so I must wait and only practice, watch, and do camps if anything.

Mar 24, 18 4:37 pm  · 
 · 
Rusty!

If I had a 15 year old child that wanted to go into Architecture, I would work really hard with them to figure out what exceptional talents and interests they have and push them into that direction. Away from Architecture, of course.

But if they showed basic competence and interest in a bunch of things while not being great at any single one of them, then yes. Architecture is a feasible path.

Architecture will pay well and will be a rewarding profession for 'master of none' types. Just be competent in a whole bunch of things. Sounds easy, but is hard.

Barely competent people who are self aware will work hard for everything until they are totally meeting basic threshold of competency. This is what makes for a good architect these days.

Mar 25, 18 2:52 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

So it's better to be an "Overall" architect than a "Specialized mostly to one style" one?

Mar 25, 18 8:11 pm  · 
 · 

"Basic threshold of competency" - something around the level of being able to dress yourself. A bonus it you can tie your own shoes.

Mar 25, 18 8:36 pm  · 
 · 
"""1991"

Architecture isn't about "style"



Mar 25, 18 11:32 pm  · 
 · 
Wilma Buttfit

Architecture school is just the A. You have to bring the STEM. 

Mar 25, 18 8:02 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

So my plan of taking more STEM camps instead of design camps is a good plan? I also do robotics at my school and has helped my building, design, and electronics abilities.

Mar 25, 18 10:07 pm  · 
 · 
Wilma Buttfit

What is design camp? Robotics is good. Learning to think is good.

Mar 25, 18 11:11 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

there's design camps offered for high schoolers where you learn color schemes and stuff. It sounded something I could do on my own so I chose an actual STEM camp instead with design challenges using STEM and I've done them since I was in about 3rd grade

Mar 25, 18 11:32 pm  · 
 · 
Wilma Buttfit

Like I said, visit an architect’s office if you are serious about it. And work construction for at least one summer. Get a job to help pay for college, build a work history and work ethic.

Mar 26, 18 5:57 am  · 
 · 
atelier nobody

Architecture school graduates who can build really great models and renderings in Rhino are a dime a dozen; technical architects who can make the roof not leak are worth their weight in gold.

Apr 1, 19 7:48 pm  · 
 · 
atelier nobody

Unfortunately, many in the profession have this bassackwards and give more respect to the "design stars," but that's not unique to architecture - we live in a time that values style over substance. \

Apr 1, 19 7:50 pm  · 
 · 
YourYoureYore

if you are willing to endure a lifelong delusion that idealism is worth completely sacrificing your own subsistence, go for it.


My old friends that dicked around in high school and schlubbed thru the next 6 years now have 10x nicer homes and cars and will actually retire one day. If that sounds fun to you, have at it.



Mar 25, 18 9:34 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Can you rephrase this comment? I'm confused.

Mar 25, 18 10:08 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Oh ok. I knew that

Mar 25, 18 10:21 pm  · 
 · 
YourYoureYore

You just typed a whole load of nonsense. No where did I mention wanting to make a million dollars. I said if you want to be able to retire and not live in a shanty (unless your partner makes money), don't become an architect.

Mar 26, 18 6:09 am  · 
 · 
Kraye

Rick’s paragraph is confusing because well of course architects aren’t making millions. Lawyers and doctors and successful business owners do. There’s the top in every career that make tons while others don’t pay well. Area does vary and since architecture is mainly in the city the costs are more expensive. I know this stuff. If anything it takes time to get high salaries. Also sclubbed? Is that work their butts off in college?

Mar 26, 18 12:36 pm  · 
 · 
randomised
FEATURED COMMENT

"Rick’s paragraph is confusing"
Mar 26, 18 12:45 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

;)

Mar 26, 18 12:47 pm  · 
 · 
YourYoureYore

A. Lawyers don't make millions. I doubt even partners do. Associates might make $100-150k. Graduates are barely getting hired. B. If you are in the business of just making pretty things you are an absolutely crappy architect. Gehry and Zaha (RIP) fit in this category. Good architects protect quite a few lives. C. I'm not going to argue with you that we may not be needed, but to say humans don't need buildings is one of the dumbest sentences I've ever read. Buildings would rank in the top 3 of things humans need. Food and water being the first two. Humans don't need iPhone but people developing them and selling them are quite wealthy. Humans don't need facebook. Humans don't need cars. Should I go on? Left outside of the supervision of an architect you get shitty unsafe buildings that may or may not function as intended. You know how many contractors truly care about code violations if they can get away with it? You know how many inspectors actually inspect? You know how many engineers give a damn about the design outside of thwir own incredibly specific role? RickB is the utter definition of what is wrong with the profession. He's reduced us to pretty picture drawers. If we could force his kind out of the profession (if he is ev
en actually a licensed architect ) we would be much better off.

Mar 26, 18 1:22 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Ok that’s makes way more sense and more logical. Also compared to many counties people are very money driven in the US. From what I’ve seen, Architecture makes a great salary average for a single person, but for a family of four ~75k isn’t that good. As long as I’m able to have a liveable salary, I’m down for architecture.

Mar 26, 18 1:29 pm  · 
 · 
YourYoureYore

RickB, I hate to say this (actually I don't) but you are nothing more than a long winded buffoon. Society ceases to exist as we know it without buildings. A lot of my clients couldn't even figure out a 13x20 room renovation without an architect. Sure the contractor could come in and give them 1/4 of what they needed, but who wants that? Again, only bad architects aren't involved in the construction phase. Most contractors are barely anymore either. They are brokers. You know who is actually doing the construction? A guy getting paid minimum wage or the minimum amount the government says he is allowed on a scale job. THOSE are the dudes we need to be praising. I mean... they're building the building. Let's give them all the credit. Furthermore, nobody bats an eye at paying realtors 6%. F***ING realtors. Somebody that an Internet search and $500 contractual attorney fee should have put out of business 20 years ago but they still make bank. Your ramblings are nonsensical. You seem to have little grasp of the profession or the construction industry in general. The only thing you have going for you is hopefully you are discouraging this poor teenage soul to avoid this doomed profession like the plague. Now get lost.

Mar 26, 18 2:06 pm  · 
 · 
SpontaneousCombustion

Periodic observation and contract administration are two different things, per AIA contract definitions. You're throwing a lot of CA tasks into the Balkins definition of "observation". Just be aware that the Balkins definition doesn't equal the AIA definition, and you're the only one using the former.

Mar 26, 18 4:05 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Ok let's not fight thanks. But Rick, what you're saying SEEMS like you either aren't an architect or just hate the profession. You seem to support with government names and numbers. Maybe Oregon has a different way and don't make as much as other states do. But, thanks for a viewpoint with statics (that I don't know where they came from).

Mar 26, 18 6:09 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Kraye, ever see The Goonies? Rick is from that town.

Mar 26, 18 6:58 pm  · 
 · 
YourYoureYore

Good Lord. We have a guy without a license and probably without a traditional architectural educational track trying to define the profession. Like I said earlier, get lost. You are nothing but hot air and bulls***

Mar 26, 18 7:09 pm  · 
 · 
kjdt

Kraye: Richard is only a "building designer" in his imagination. He is 36 years old, now in his 18th year of community college, and has never designed any building that has been built.

Mar 26, 18 7:24 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

He went looking for the pirate treasure when he was a kid and fell down a well. He’s never been right since.

Mar 26, 18 7:35 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Let's not cyberbully here please, do that in the DMs if anything. But Rick, great summary of something I've never heard of. Glad for YoureYoureYore and Rick's POV on the idea and career of architecture.

Mar 26, 18 8:08 pm  · 
 · 
Wilma Buttfit

You know what’s a goog job? A locksmith. $75 for 9 seconds of work.


Mar 26, 18 7:00 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Wow that's 30,000 per hr!

Mar 26, 18 9:30 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

60 million a year. Ain't bad work if you can get it.

Mar 26, 18 12:58 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Aha I’ll just profession in locks and work every single second on locks. Love the humor

Mar 26, 18 1:33 pm  · 
 · 
joseffischer

Hardware specifier. I meet maybe 1 out of every 100 architects who know how to do hardware specs and don't want to blow their brains out afterwards. I happen to like them, but our firm refuses to allow it done in-house.

Mar 27, 18 9:35 am  · 
 · 
Wilma Buttfit

Anything specialized makes good money. Being a generalist is fun but you pay for the privilege.

Mar 27, 18 11:24 am  · 
 · 

Kraye, I think the best thing to do now is for you to take a day and shadow an architect (not a firm leader but a mid level person) and see if what they do on a typical day is something you can see yourself doing. 

As for the career choice, the pay is not huge but we get paid and if you are in someplace with reasonable housing cost, like Chicago and not a coastal city you can have a decent life new car and a home on an architect's salary. This may not be so easy in New York or San Francisco but it is possible, and you don't have to be pigeonholed. But a lot of our day to day work, is for some, boring and we have to ultimately fulfill a client's needs which can be frustrating at times. The work I do in architecture is mostly solving  a series of problems to meet code and budget budget constraints I make enough money to have a new car, and a condo in the city a few block from the lake on the far north side. When I'm working on a design problem, crawling around an old warehouse to figure out how our design team can convert it to a clinic I lose track of time and have so much fun figuring out the complex 3d 4d puzzle that is a design project.

Any local AIA chapter can help you arrange a job shadow or at least give you a few names and an introduction.

Over and OUT

Peter N

Mar 26, 18 9:51 am  · 
 · 
Kraye

Thanks great summary with the pros and cons. I hope To shadow sometime before senior year. Maybe like 3 people would be the best to see different perspectives of the top middle and right out of school

Mar 26, 18 1:34 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

I'm going to advise NOT shadowing an architect. It'll suck the life out of you.

Mar 26, 18 10:34 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Why would people accept unpaid internships, they need to pay for college. I guess some just are so eager to get a job ASAP instead of researching more. Also, I've already had 1 person who's an architect asked if I wanted to see a daily life of theirs, which I haven't done, but I might ask my parents about it to do this summer when I have the time.

Mar 27, 18 11:32 am  · 
 · 
BulgarBlogger

People get paid shit because there are way too many people in this profession that never should have made it. As much as we bitch and moan about the licensing requirements - these requirements are waayyyy too lax. Yes, we can debate whether or not the free market will figure things out for you, but at the end of the day - those who are too incompetent to undertake the liability undercut those who are prepared to take on the liability because legally both can call themselves Architects. This makes those who know what they are doing unable to compete financially with those who don't know what they are doing... We ought to really re-establish the dignity of this profession by strengthening the overall competency of our workforce... there are so many people who know ZERO about construction... 

Mar 26, 18 5:39 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

Ah so some don't know what their doing. I've seen that with 2 story homes being built around me for 800k-1m in a 200k-400k ramblers neighborhoods and the houses are from this really bad team that just plop houses everywhere. They look nice, sometimes, but they have so many technical issues with plumbing and electricity. The young new families with these homes keep having plumbers and electricians come over and fix things every 6 months. It's ridiculous and I wish better homes were being built or at least with better quality for their money. Also I should get licensed when them time comes right?

Mar 26, 18 6:14 pm  · 
 · 
BulgarBlogger

Let me put it this way: Being licensed is about knowing what a CPM Chart is... being an architect is knowing how to put one together... you may be licensed, but the question is whether you can apply your knowledge to put together a building in a successful way - architecturally, financially, and in a way that doesn't cause problems down the road. 

Mar 26, 18 6:28 pm  · 
 · 
shellarchitect

THANKS RICK!

Mar 27, 18 3:52 pm  · 
 · 
mapoz

Kraye, studying architecture was the hardest thing I've ever done, and likely that you'll ever do. (I did very well, so it's not because of that. Plus architecture at university was way harder than actually working as an architect.) Architecture is an excellent education in the design, art, culture and the finer things in life and can be very interesting, but IMHO it is a terrible business - and you can't afford any of those finer things, frustratingly. 
Architects routinely compete on fees, and it's often a 'race to the bottom' - which means lousy pay for everyone, all things considered. Worse - we were all told this in the first week of architecture school, and we all ignored it.
I began law school part time after several years as an architect, to better understand contracts and improve my project management abilities. It was, comparatively, a breeze. I met some construction lawyers (they exist!) and (short version) with encouragement, changed careers. My first year starting law salary was 250% of my 10+ year experienced, senior architect salary, and it went up every year after that. 
If you love the idea of building, then do it. I don't regret having been an architect - but am equally glad I'm no longer one. Most architects can make a living (~ better than a teacher), a few do pretty well, and a very select few do better. IMHO, you can live well enough in a smaller or cheaper city, but will starve in the big cities where the biggest work is. 
By all means, shadow an architect - for the same reason  b3tadine [sutures] said not to. 

Mar 27, 18 3:31 pm  · 
1  · 
Kraye

Yep, I've watched a few videos of "Architecture Students Youtubers" and many say it's very busy and the whole time I'm like, this is a lot like my SS and english classes. It can be super hard, intense, and time consuming, but once you're done, everything will be easier and you'll be more prepared. And if it all goes bad, I could go for another career and do something else, my parent went for engineering and never used their degree for their current job and has a stable salary... I think. I don't want to live in Cali (forever) or NY, if it goes well I'd come back to my city right now and help it grow and architects do quite well here (more on the residence aspect I think.) That's cool you turned to becoming a Lawyer and shows you can still change careers even if you go for college in your 18s-22s for one degree, you can go back for a different one.

Mar 27, 18 3:52 pm  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

Best thing i learnt today is to "ignore" Rick B and his verbal diarrhea.

Mar 27, 18 3:33 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I try, but I’m a rubbernect.

Mar 27, 18 5:07 pm  · 
 · 
geezertect

shows you can still change careers even if you go for college in your 18s-22s for one degree, you can go back for a different one.

Yes, but it's a lot easier to just pick the right career to begin with.

Mar 27, 18 9:26 pm  · 
 · 
archi_dude

But you can never get back all the potentially awesome experiences in college denied when spending all nighters in studio.

Mar 27, 18 9:53 pm  · 
 · 
Wilma Buttfit

You suggest there is a thing as a "right career". Wouldn't that be nice. I don't think it exists.

Mar 28, 18 5:47 am  · 
 · 
geezertect

No such thing as a perfect career, but some are definitely better than others.

Mar 28, 18 7:09 am  · 
 · 
archi_dude

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEuPmVAb8o


The link above has some solid advice. There’s two parts to choosing your career. Is it in demand? And are you good at it? If either of those are missing your career will be way more difficult than other pastures. You may actually be the best designer but honestly a large firm only needs one designer but lots of drafters. Many many people get stuck as drafters and follow this dogma that you must suffer manny many years before being given the gift of designing. Or you could get a solid career with many options like a civil engineer or computer engineer (as long as you are good at it) and if you are still passionate at design save your money which you’ll make way more of in a field with many opportunities and build your own house, flip houses, hell design on the side. Architecture is a great amazing hobby but a lowsy career. I mean historically if you look at “architects” during the Renaissance it was their hobby, something born out of their actually vocation.

Mar 27, 18 10:06 pm  · 
 · 
archi_dude

Rick,

Mar 27, 18 11:15 pm  · 
 · 
archi_dude

There isn’t enough demand for arranging facade elements in a stylish manner.

Mar 27, 18 11:20 pm  · 
 · 
Kraye

I just watched the whole video, it's a very true fact passion and abilities are two different things and abilities are more important. You don't know if I want to go traditional or not, maybe I'll go another way, I have 3 different possible path plans and maybe 1 is traditional. Architecture is very competitive, i know, you need the skills more than the passion. But you need also willingness, you can be an AMAZING uh debater, but you would rather go into something that doesn't involve speaking. Or love science but never want to go into that field. There's many factors and going another way can be the key i've heard, but it depends. It's not lousy but if you go the wrong way, like in any job, you go into a hell hole.

Mar 27, 18 11:44 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

"There isn’t enough demand for arranging facade elements in a stylish manner."

I haven't arranged facade elements in quite a while, don't miss it one bit. What I miss least about it is that certain arrangements are disqualified simply because "that's not how we like it", or, "we don't do symmetry" or "we don't do asymmetry" etc.

Mar 28, 18 1:55 am  · 
 · 
garlande.

My perception of architecture has changed and now I'm scared of it's misfortune

Sep 19, 18 11:48 pm  · 
 · 
ArchNyen
It = RickB-Astoria
Sep 23, 18 8:21 am  · 
 · 
imaquite

Hi kraye.


I always had that big dream of becoming a succesful architect as my dad. But after doing my internship i was shocked. Architecture is just not for me plus the salary is just low. Unhealthy atmoshpere long hours. Architecture has nothing to do with design its mainly about problem solving plus meeting ur boss and coustomers requests . Its not what u see in college its a design that is delivered in the most uncreative way possible (aotucad). I dont mean to sacre you but it would be better to visit an architecture office and see real life of architects before going to architcture school which is going to teach you different things.


Luckily i realised that before its too late i am only 21. Im on my way to become a dentist.




Good luck.

Sep 27, 18 5:36 pm  · 
 · 
geezertect

Good move. Was your father unhappy or relieved?

Sep 27, 18 6:17 pm  · 
 · 
lower.case.yao

You said you don’t find math hard, and you’re female. Why don’t you take a look at computer science? Programmers spend as much time on the computer as architects, they spend just as much time problem solving as architects, their earning potential greatly surpasses that of architects, and they sometimes have the word architect on their job titles.

Sep 27, 18 7:09 pm  · 
 · 

As a teacher and architect this is my advice:

At your age, i would do whatever interested me. if that's architecture then do it. if it doesn't work out, so what? 1. people change careers all the time 2. SO MANY arch grads i know end up NOT doing architecture and being very very successful in their new path. Why? because architecture school is profoundly different than most studies. if you get into a good school and work hard, the education will be worth it, even if you dont to architecture after graduation 'for the rest of your life'.

lastly, if you go with architecture school, keep an open mind. 90% of arch students dont do well and their designs suffer greatly because they let their assumptions about architecture limit them. 

Oct 2, 18 11:58 am  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

One thing that no one mentions here is that when the OP starts working (in about 2025 or 2025), the landscape of the profession will be drastically different, as a result of increased automation (BIM etc). For example just 15 years ago it would take a team of say, 6-10 to get a mid-rise building to DD level. Using revit we just did 15 buildings at SD level with a team of 12. Pretty complicated buildings.

I really do no think there will be as much demand for architects in 7-8 years. And the pay will be even shittier. 

Choose your poison carefully, and if you decide to still do it, go to Pomona. Its pretty similar in the level of education to USC. Safe, not super cutting edge and much cheaper.

Oct 2, 18 9:13 pm  · 
 · 
Brimstone

While Rick has been getting unfairly criticized (that might be the wrong word has there has been no true criticism) he is right on many counts. Besides the supply of architects outweighing the demand, the profession itself is starkly subdivided in stages. The first the (the intern) largely a production role doing renders, design iterations and fixing construction drawings. People in this position are relatively interchangeable and get paid (at least in Seattle) by the AIA compensation report (aka the race to the bottom). [I’ve been working for 3 years and making 50k, 20k more and I’ll be above the poverty line!] Then on you’ll be slowly getting in charge of the construction set itself, running consultant meetings and communicating with the client (5+ yr exp). Once you’ve reached Project Architect you’ll be in charge of all that plus all of the detailing, Construction Admin (you’ll have been doing detailing, submittal reviews, and phone tag with consults after year 3 - but it now all hangs on you) and the glorious ability to draw walls, windows, and equipment with no one second guessing you. Then you’ll reach Project Manager where you set schedules, prepare contracts, prepare budgets, organize employees, deal with firm issues, and herd kittens. “Architecture” becomes a minimal task at this point (besides building code review, writting specs, performing QA on drawings, and making sure almighty fire life safety plan doesn’t break your project). Many PMs transfer to higher paying trades such as real estate devs or construction firms where they essentially do the same tasks minus the redundant code and QA reviews. At this point you can reach the coveted 6 figure rank.


I think most architects join the profession in order to become a “capital D” Designer. However, the Designer to architect ratio in a firm is very low... we have 1 for every 33 staff. Therefore it might behoove you to learn as much as possible and set out on your own. However, the risk is pretty high and the pay isn’t too much better. The best route is probably leaning about the physical trades and preforming the role of GC for single family res... scheduling, buying materials, and getting the right bidders. You can always try to flip but for new construction you best leave it to the pros to bang out framing and drying wall in a fraction of the time you would take by your self.


Or you can always hoard enough cash, or find enough investors, and draw your first house, preform the GC role, and get something built. You don’t even have to be licensed, just get your structural engineer to stamp your drawings. Then you can outsource the construction docs to some other architect once you get busy enough to where those are not worth your time.


If your more interested in making beautiful buildings like Rick posted of the High school in Astoria, good luck. In the institutional setting, especially using public funds, having window treatments or even a pitched roof becomes something you have to dearly defend. It’s hard to convince the client to abandon a flat roof building in light guage steel with internal roof drains... let alone spend tax payer dollars on window treatments... plus a storefront system costs as much as rain screen wall assembly so if we’re trying to get as much daylight into the building the window treatments will consist of some break metal flashing to keep water from the window head. I’m all for traditional architecture but there’s a reason why contemporary architecture looks the way it does.


Also, architects get the raw end of the deal where the most jobs are in cities, which in turn are the most expensive places to live. That doesn’t bode well for many of us. I plan on leaving Seattle in the near future as I can’t afford a fixer-upper for less $750k within a 30 min commute of the city. I heard Sacramento is still affordable for us non-tech folk... and at least I’ll see the sun again.





Mar 11, 19 1:19 pm  · 
 · 
*your name

Hello this is Jones Brian, I will like to have a Design for six Bed Rooms two Story All Suit with Two Living Rooms, foyal. master suite, playroom, kitchen, kitchenette, laundry room, and 3 car Garage and will like access the Living from the Garage also have link with the Master Bed room ,If there is anything that can suite my taste which i am yet to included. Please Advice,Hope you accept credit Card as mode of payment for the Drawing , plan and Designs ,and i will appreciate if you can get back to me with the following details Estimate of Yours


Jones Brian

Mar 12, 19 2:11 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Assuming you've gotten that as a spam text. This is a common occurrence in the FB The EntreArchitect group. You should reply and direct it to the Balkinator.

Mar 12, 19 2:29 pm  · 
 · 
atelier nobody

Follow your passion. If you make less than some of your friends, but love what you do, you'll be happier in the long run. Be aware that loving what you do doesn't mean you'll never have any days you wish you were doing something else - there've been times I've nearly been in tears leaving the office, but after 20-something years doing this, the only thing I'd do differently is get into it sooner (I spent my 20s in all the classic "dead-end" jobs before getting into architecture).

In particular, if you're thinking of spending some time working internationally, there will come a time when you have a mortgage, kids, dog, or whatever that'll make it a lot harder to get up and run halfway around the world, so definitely do it while you're young.

Apr 1, 19 8:06 pm  · 
 · 
hardwaregeek

This is like asking if doing engineering is worth it. If you really like architecture for what it is, then it's going to be worth it throughout your life. With architecture, it is almost like a 'take it as it is' kind of situation. The going is tough, money is scarce and growth takes time.


https://helpfulforhomes.com/

May 8, 19 11:15 am  · 
 · 
form64

No. 

May 11, 19 9:32 pm  · 
1  · 
Jayness

Architecture is not an easy profession and yes the pay/lifestyle might not meet the expectations of many hard-working, intelligent folks with impressive degrees, often close to 6 years of undergrad and graduate training. One friend of mind went from undergrad arch to working at firms to getting an MBA, and it never sat well to see how much more $$$ he was making versys my undergrad arch / grad arch path. However, it can be at time be a pretty cool job, just often you are tied down to thankless tasks, or having to crank out one extra iteration of a design that has little marginal value considering the demands on your time. 

I've struggled personally with two architecture career issues:

(1) Lack of opportunity in downcycles - This really sucked.  I went from working at a firm where they threw large, complex projects at underpaid, naive designers out of grad school to a series of firms where the work was ok but in general there was not many interesting "opportunities" to design, learn, or just feel any progress. Instead I kept reading about how bad the economy was and thinking about other careers. It also sucked to see other industries perfectly insulated (healthcare, technology development) and to see others advance in an environment that was especially brutal for architects. I think many out there claim the recent recession was an aberration (not without merit of course), but i still have this abiding fear that other downturns will be more similar than dissimilar to the "great recession". 

(2) Struggled sometime with the cultural conservatism and monoculture of other architects. By cultural conservatism I mean the adherence to unspoken practices of architects such as working late and hard, perfection, glorfying the role of the architect and architecture, the keepers of the flame in school who elevate the most useless parts of school above all other endeavors ( I mention this last part not because they are wrong but only because they block or consume all other forms of relevant inquiry!). By monoculture I mean we are just like other professions in that we have our clear distinguishing features - most annoying might be the adherence to black in 90% of partner photos on their "design firms" website. How original!

May 25, 19 12:08 pm  · 
 · 
geezertect

Well said. Every profession has its own flavor of KoolAid that everyone seems to drink. Sometimes you really envy the people who are in occupations that no one would ever do except for money, because there is a beautiful honesty about it. No shaming language when you criticize things or, god forbid, escape to something better.  Both hookers and johns know what they want and what they are willing to do to get it.

May 25, 19 1:46 pm  · 
 · 
Archinect

The Midnight Charette podcast's latest episode discusses topics brought up in this thread...

This week David and Marina answer a post from an Archinect forum thread written by a 15-year old who aspires to become an architect. In the original post, the author wonders what some of the pros and cons are of architecture, how he/she should prepare for architecture school and the profession, and ultimately if pursuing architecture is 'worth it'. After seeing many of the negative comments on the thread, we decided to share our thoughts on the matter and some of the hard truths about the profession. Enjoy!

Links:

Watch on midnightcharette.com or YouTube Listen on iTunes and Spotify

Jun 26, 19 5:32 pm  · 
 · 
paulsorum

Kraye, If you become an architect, you do not have to work in a traditional firm which is definitely a dead end financially.  One of the most valuable things you will get out of architecture school is critical thinking skills - you must work in the studio doing hands-on solving problem.  Almost no other professional training gives you these type of critical thinking skills.  Aside from the failed business model of the traditional architectural firm, architectural problem solving is a very powerful way to solve ANY large complex problem or sets of problems.  This is a rare find for any employer in any field.

In 2000, I decided to increase my pay by becoming the architect and general contractor in my own design-build business.  I built mid-sized to small homes and made two to three times what my friends made in architectural firms.  This is one example of how you can break out of the architectural firm and increase your earning potential.  

I still design homes (my first love since I could make cardboard models as a child). But, today I also work with a number of lawyers providing litigation support which includes, research, strategy, team building, project management and much more.  I find the work very meaningful and apply architectural problem solving everyday in this arena as well while helping people with serious legal problems - very meaningful.

Kraye, you must be willing to think outside the box if you are to become an architect.  Don't accept others' limited perspective on your employment opportunities if you become an architect.  But, also, don't expect anything to be easy.  Being an architect will have its ups and downs and periods of unemployment.  So, be ready with another related skill set that will reliably make money when you really need it and the economy is slow.

Paul

Jun 30, 19 1:03 am  · 
 · 
barnesjoshua

this thread is pretty sad but speaks to the state of the profession in general.  Life is what you make it, I'm making mine great . dont fall in with the haters Dont except anyones reality as your own, and dont drink the bitter waters.  

Jun 30, 19 2:27 pm  · 
 · 
dedicatedbydesign

d

Sep 18, 19 7:52 pm  · 
 · 

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