I'm a Canadian who will be finishing my M.Arch this spring, and I'm considering moving to Montreal post-grad. I was wondering if not speaking french would seriously hinder my ability to get a job in architecture in Montreal. Please let me know your thoughts and insights.
Just made a weird subconscious connection but I suddenly need to know for no particular reason whatsoever, when one orders a Quarterpounder with cheese in Montreal, do they call it a Royale with cheese?
Sep 27, 17 5:47 am ·
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Non Sequitur
It's called a "Quart de Livre avec fromage". Canada is still unfortunately backwards when speaking about weight... I guess a 1/4 pound burger still sounds better than 93g burger.
Sep 27, 17 9:43 am ·
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randomised
Sounds complicated but a 93g burger doesn't sounds appetizing for sure
Sep 27, 17 11:04 am ·
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joseffischer
You know marketing would round that up to 100g
Sep 27, 17 11:12 am ·
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Non Sequitur
Let's talk when they come out with a half-kilo burger. (1-1/3 lbs)
Sep 27, 17 11:34 am ·
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randomised
In Dutch we (used to) call ½ kg a "pond" and 250g a "½ pond"
Aislin, French is very much prevalent in Quebec. Although perhaps some large offices exist where English only can be accommodated, you'll likely be significantly handicapped since most Quebec offices produce french working drawings and both consultants and trades speak french.
French is also a requirement for a Quebec license and I believe you need to take an oral exam.
Quebec government puts much effort to preserve their french heritage even when they were abandonned by the french during war. I imagine that numerous restrictions and regulations to put french language above english sometimes make it diffifult for non french speaking businesses including architecture in quebec, and thet ultimately hold back the economy as a whole.
Sep 27, 17 10:52 am ·
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Bench
Have you ever actually been to/lived in Quebec?
Sep 27, 17 11:05 am ·
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Non Sequitur
The economy is in no way held back because they place french above english.
Sep 27, 17 11:26 am ·
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mjjjj
Yes, I lived there for five years and decided to leave for college because english market is larger than the french one. When I was there, regulations ranged from education all the way to street signs although I don't know any rules specific to architecture. If one speaks French, it wouldn't be any problem but I didn't. Toronto, New York with larger economies right next to it and Montreal asking french as a pre requisite was a no deal for me. But I believe McGill architecture is renowned and produces many recognized scholars and practitioners working all around the world.
Sep 27, 17 11:40 am ·
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Bench
So how does it affect their economy?
Sep 27, 17 11:48 am ·
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mjjjj
Well, I am no economist so im only assuming but here's my thought. Toronto and montreal was in competition to become the major city of the country in early 1900s. Quebec, just like it is now has always had very nationalist views. One of the reasons why toronto now is much bigger than montreal is that many english speaking business owners left to toronto. In late 1900's seperatist, quebecois movement intensified and lead to kidnapping of some english polititians and some terrorist bombing in the city. Trudeau then famously said something i don't remember and brought in army to calm it down. The same political party during the terrorist attack has been in power for a long long time. i don't know if they are now. But my point is, quebec has nationalists tendencies as a province and less welcoming to non french speakers. Couple years ago on a news, an old lady was disrespected and yelled at in mcdonalds for ordering in english. Similar thing happened to me few times as well. With some exaggeration, its like saying if you don't speak french don't do business here. Go elsewhere. See how toronto and vancouver is full of immigrants and montreal has way way less. In NYC, there are plenty of chinese, latin americans who don’t even speak English who open up stores and start businesses. They help creating jobs and keep money moving. Quebec just is not a welcoming place for non french speaking people to start a business which probably affect the economy as a whole. I wrote a dam essay here. but that's my 2 cents.
Sep 27, 17 12:15 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
I rarely speak french when in Montreal and I'm fully bilingual.
Sep 27, 17 12:55 pm ·
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mjjjj
Ok, but you
don't run an architecture firm there.
Sep 27, 17 1:10 pm ·
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Bench
You have a lot of conjecture and anecdote in your response; 'truthiness' meter seems to be on the low side...
Sep 28, 17 4:59 am ·
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mjjjj
Sounds like you two take it very personally on this. Are you guys from montreal? Like i said im no economist and this is only my opinion. All the historical ref I made are true tho and they back up what im saying. I don't mean to give you a whole canadian history lesson but montreal once was the capital but it is not anymore because of the dispute between french and english.
Sep 28, 17 10:22 am ·
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Non Sequitur
Ottawa is the capital because it's almost dead centre between Quebec city and Toronto. Montreal was only briefly the capital in 1844... which is several years prior to actually being a country.
Sep 28, 17 10:41 am ·
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mjjjj
Well ill be visiting next week and excited for it. Non Sequitur, are you from montreal?
Sep 28, 17 11:41 am ·
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Non Sequitur
I'm not personally, although my father's side originate from there area. I do visit often and have a sister who lives there permanently. Enjoy.
I've not visited any of Canada... to get licensed there you have to have an oral exam? What's that like, how long is it, who interviews you, etc?
Sep 27, 17 11:14 am ·
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Non Sequitur
The oral exam, as far as I remember, is for reciprocity between provinces. For example, I am licensed in Ontario, but if I would like to also be licensed in Quebec, I need to pass a french language proficiency test. They are the only provincial body to have such requirement. Vivre la loi 101.... eye roll.
Limited experience but I believe yes it will significantly hinder you. We've looked at doing projects in Quebec and have been told we'd have to hire someone just to translate all the drawings into French... so if you don't speak French and you need to produce drawings that will be a problem.
Funny how much French I remember from high school, I just knew it had to be according to NS's correction. Maybe I can go for that Quebec license one day, ha!
A good friend did just that about 7 years ago. And while he was able to get a job in Montreal with very poor French, he felt he was severely limited in career opportunities. Eventually left for real Canada.
Sep 27, 17 6:26 pm ·
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randomised
Do you have a Google alert for "rusty" ;)
Sep 28, 17 3:09 pm ·
·
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Working in Montreal in Arch....French needed??
Hello architectural think tank,
I'm a Canadian who will be finishing my M.Arch this spring, and I'm considering moving to Montreal post-grad. I was wondering if not speaking french would seriously hinder my ability to get a job in architecture in Montreal. Please let me know your thoughts and insights.
Thanks,
Aislin
Yes, it will.
Just made a weird subconscious connection but I suddenly need to know for no particular reason whatsoever, when one orders a Quarterpounder with cheese in Montreal, do they call it a Royale with cheese?
It's called a "Quart de Livre avec fromage". Canada is still unfortunately backwards when speaking about weight... I guess a 1/4 pound burger still sounds better than 93g burger.
Sounds complicated but a 93g burger doesn't sounds appetizing for sure
You know marketing would round that up to 100g
Let's talk when they come out with a half-kilo burger. (1-1/3 lbs)
In Dutch we (used to) call ½ kg a "pond" and 250g a "½ pond"
Aislin, French is very much prevalent in Quebec. Although perhaps some large offices exist where English only can be accommodated, you'll likely be significantly handicapped since most Quebec offices produce french working drawings and both consultants and trades speak french.
French is also a requirement for a Quebec license and I believe you need to take an oral exam.
Have you ever actually been to/lived in Quebec?
The economy is in no way held back because they place french above english.
Yes, I lived there for five years and decided to leave for college because english market is larger than the french one. When I was there, regulations ranged from education all the way to street signs although I don't know any rules specific to architecture. If one speaks French, it wouldn't be any problem but I didn't. Toronto, New York with larger economies right next to it and Montreal asking french as a pre requisite was a no deal for me. But I believe McGill architecture is renowned and produces many recognized scholars and practitioners working all around the world.
So how does it affect their economy?
Well, I am no economist so im only assuming but here's my thought. Toronto and montreal was in competition to become the major city of the country in early 1900s. Quebec, just like it is now has always had very nationalist views. One of the reasons why toronto now is much bigger than montreal is that many english speaking business owners left to toronto. In late 1900's seperatist, quebecois movement intensified and lead to kidnapping of some english polititians and some terrorist bombing in the city. Trudeau then famously said something i don't remember and brought in army to calm it down. The same political party during the terrorist attack has been in power for a long long time. i don't know if they are now. But my point is, quebec has nationalists tendencies as a province and less welcoming to non french speakers. Couple years ago on a news, an old lady was disrespected and yelled at in mcdonalds for ordering in english. Similar thing happened to me few times as well. With some exaggeration, its like saying if you don't speak french don't do business here. Go elsewhere. See how toronto and vancouver is full of immigrants and montreal has way way less. In NYC, there are plenty of chinese, latin americans who don’t even speak English who open up stores and start businesses. They help creating jobs and keep money moving. Quebec just is not a welcoming place for non french speaking people to start a business which probably affect the economy as a whole. I wrote a dam essay here. but that's my 2 cents.
I rarely speak french when in Montreal and I'm fully bilingual.
Ok, but you don't run an architecture firm there.
You have a lot of conjecture and anecdote in your response; 'truthiness' meter seems to be on the low side...
Sounds like you two take it very personally on this. Are you guys from montreal? Like i said im no economist and this is only my opinion. All the historical ref I made are true tho and they back up what im saying. I don't mean to give you a whole canadian history lesson but montreal once was the capital but it is not anymore because of the dispute between french and english.
Ottawa is the capital because it's almost dead centre between Quebec city and Toronto. Montreal was only briefly the capital in 1844... which is several years prior to actually being a country.
Well ill be visiting next week and excited for it. Non Sequitur, are you from montreal?
I'm not personally, although my father's side originate from there area. I do visit often and have a sister who lives there permanently. Enjoy.
I've not visited any of Canada... to get licensed there you have to have an oral exam? What's that like, how long is it, who interviews you, etc?
The oral exam, as far as I remember, is for reciprocity between provinces. For example, I am licensed in Ontario, but if I would like to also be licensed in Quebec, I need to pass a french language proficiency test. They are the only provincial body to have such requirement. Vivre la loi 101.... eye roll.
Vive la loi
Limited experience but I believe yes it will significantly hinder you. We've looked at doing projects in Quebec and have been told we'd have to hire someone just to translate all the drawings into French... so if you don't speak French and you need to produce drawings that will be a problem.
Pensez-vous vraiment que vous allez pouvoir travailler à Montréal si vous ne pouvez pas parler français?
Very good Miles, although the second "pouvez" is unnecessary. Should read "... travailler à Montréal sans parler français."
Mon français est une merde.
Funny how much French I remember from high school, I just knew it had to be according to NS's correction. Maybe I can go for that Quebec license one day, ha!
Watashi wa nihongo ga warui desu.
My Japanese is a little rusty unfortunately
Je pense'que c'est seulement 'merde' Miles
Bench, in that case it wouldn't be merde at all
A good friend did just that about 7 years ago. And while he was able to get a job in Montreal with very poor French, he felt he was severely limited in career opportunities. Eventually left for real Canada.
Do you have a Google alert for "rusty" ;)
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