a vote for Hilllary is a vote for the G.W.H. Bush war machine and same old same old and a vote for Trump - I do not know, but Holy Shit is the first thought I have.......see Mark Twain
What z1111 said, but I'll go even further: Proposing that there is any normal metric to compare them, that those two humans are anywhere in the same circle of experience, leadership, intelligence, and global standing, is stupidity.
3- a venal politician on the side of Wall Street, Big Pharma
How did that become acceptable?
And who said that her, as a woman president, would make things better for women? If anything, she'll make life more miserable and poor for those who are not super rich, men or women. It's the same with Obama; there are more people of colour in jails and being killed than before...what good did he do there?
It is unfortunate that the stark dual polarity of the political scene in the US (Democrat vs Republican) dictates how people think as well, confined within those two boxes. Trump is a racist bigot - a wolf in wolf's skin- and Clinton is all the above, using her attacks on Trump and the supportive liberal media coverage as sheep skin- a wolf in sheep's skin.
And who said that her, as a woman president, would make things better for women?
I'm not saying that as a woman Hillary would make things better for women. I'm saying as a political leader in the Democratic party of the US, she will work to try to make things better for women, as opposed to the other party who is actively working to make things worse for women, both here and abroad.
"Liberal Democratic Hillary Clinton supporters get defensive when they hear that Mrs. Clinton is favored over Donald Trump by right-wing billionaires like Charles Koch and (with much more enthusiasm) by leading arch-imperial foreign policy Neoconservatives like Robert Kagan, Max Boot, and Eliot Cohen. But an honest look at Hillary’s record should make the support she is getting from such noxious, arch-authoritarian “elites” less than surprising.
My last essay reflected on Hillary’s deeply conservative, neoliberal, and pro-Big Business career in domestic U.S. politics and policy. This article turns to her foreign policy history, showing why it makes perfect sense that top imperial Neocons prefer Hillary over the at least outwardly “isolationist” and at anti-interventionist Trump."
Hillary has already proven, over and over, that she’s a good friend to Wall Street and the capitalists and will do their bidding, whether it’s making sure no legislation is passed that will make them pay their fair share of taxes, raise the minimum wage, stop protecting the big banks and the bankers, or waging whatever war is required in order to protect the empire. She will be crowned, with or without my vote in the next few months.
Hillary’s record: does this look like feminism to you?
* Voted for the still ongoing Iraq War and an escalation of the Afghanistan war
* Voted to bail out Wall Street and the big banks
* Voted against splitting up the big banks
* Voted for the TPP which protects Wall Street banks and huge corporations from any regulations that would interfere with their profits
* Voted for the Keystone Pipeline – a pending environmental disaster
* Voted for border fence legislation
* Voted for off-shore drilling
* Supported raising the minimum wage to $12 an hour, even though the proposal is to raise it to $15 an hour, only after having her arm twisted – which will still leave people far below the standard of living
* Stated that she was for abortion only in “rare” circumstances
* Is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations, the defender of the elites, with her daughter also recently installed as a member
* She has announced that she was “very flattered when Henry Kissinger said I ran the State Department better than anybody had run it in a long time” (The Nation, Feb. 5, 2016)
* Supported decimating the welfare system during her husband’s presidency and suggested women on welfare were “just sitting around the house doing nothing” – referred to “these people” as “deadbeats”
All I'm going to say is that I'm less than happy with the choices we have. The only thing that has me voting for Hillary right now is that she isn't Donald Trump.
Had Vermin Supreme taken the Libertarian Party nomination, I would have voted for him. Who doesn't want a president that wears a boot on his head?
this principle of voting in the lesser of two evils will eventually land you with larger and larger evils all the while anaesthetizing your sensibility towards evil.
If a 3rd party is on the ballot I'll vote...whether it's Jill Stein or Gary Johnson. I like Johnson, he's a very reasonable and liberal libertarian. I don't agree with all of his ideas (many I do), but he is certainly a thoughtful politician. Same goes for Jill Stein, I don't share all of her views, but she is very smart. I really don't care much about policy...most of them are just playing the cards of their team anyway...and its all rigged from within. I vote for character first, and neither Trump or Hillary are of good character. Hillary is more polite, I'll give her that, but the average meth head is more polite than trump so....
The oligarchy is in charge anyway and they are not too concerned with who is president. All the candidates sound like they are on our side while running but then they all sound the same once they are in office and major policy does not change. Maintain empire is their marching orders. Think back has any president ever made an impact on your life for the better? More likely for the worst because the president / government is not interested in our well being only on perpetuating the oligarchy and their interest.
I have a vision of the new president being sat down by the Rothschilds, Vanderbilts, and Rockefellers and they give the new president their agenda and show who really has the power. Then they walk out of the room turn turn off the lights and the Zapruder film flickers on in the darkness.
“The bank hath benefit of interest on all moneys which it creates out of nothing.” William Paterson, founder of the Bank of England in 1694, then a privately owned bank
“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.
“The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.” The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.
“I am afraid the ordinary citizen will not like to be told that the banks can and do create money. And they who control the credit of the nation direct the policy of Governments and hold in the hollow of their hand the destiny of the people.” Reginald McKenna, as Chairman of the Midland Bank, addressing stockholders in 1924.
“The banks do create money. They have been doing it for a long time, but they didn’t realise it, and they did not admit it. Very few did. You will find it in all sorts of documents, financial textbooks, etc. But in the intervening years, and we must be perfectly frank about these things, there has been a development of thought, until today I doubt very much whether you would get many prominent bankers to attempt to deny that banks create it.” H W White, Chairman of the Associated Banks of New Zealand, to the New Zealand Monetary Commission, 1955.
OTHERS
“Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal – that there is no human relation between master and slave.” Leo Tolstoy, Russian writer.
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company.
“The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is, perhaps, the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banks can in fact inflate, mint and un-mint the modern ledger-entry currency.” Major L L B Angus. “The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent.” John Kenneth Galbraith (1908- ), former professor of economics at Harvard, writing in ‘Money: Whence it came, where it went’ (1975).
As Nicolas Trist – secretary to President Andrew Jackson – said about the incredibly powerful privately owned Second Bank of the United States, “Independently of its misdeeds, the merepower, — the bare existence of such a power, — is a thing irreconcilable with the nature and spirit of our institutions.” (Schlesinger, The Age of Jackson, p.102)
I'm with tintt and Donna. Hillary has serious flaws, but at least she doesn't keep a copy of Hitler's speeches on her bedside table, and she's not accused of violently raping a 13-year-old. I'd vote for bubonic plague over Donald Trump.
"I know all that chatter and I don't fucking care. The lesser of two evils is a thing."
Not this time.
I used to think that after the primaries, that I should stand behind the approved nominee of my party. That idea died quit a long time ago. If you can not say you like your candidate, what they stand for and are doing, don't vote at all. Because at that point, you are responsible for them. JMHO. and I am not voting at all, not for president anyways.
Yeah, but trump will make for better late night comedy material. When he destroys the country, which he probably will, it will also be funny to see all the dummies that voted for him try to blame Obama. Overall, yeah Hillary will probably fuck stuff up less, but trump will do it in a funnier way while shutting up his base. When Hillary fucks things up it will just make his base louder. If we survive a trump presidency it may ultimately put the country in a better direction...kinda like a scared straight program for America. I want to reserve my right to complain either way, which is why I will either vote for a third party or stay home...
For all of you idiots claiming that "the act of voting itself adds to the malaise that we find ourselves in", just remember, that there is a whole portion of the country that is uneducated, uncouth, and plain criminal that will go vote for Trump come election day. Your laziness to go and vote will cause the demise of the whole premise of the nation.
Here's an article that might interest the "parrots":
On the fence, not voting at all IS voting - it's voting for a bunch of people who hate you to get to choose who they want to be your president.
Acting like not voting for the lesser of two evils is somehow a noble and principled act is childish bullshit. Be a grownup.
chatter of clouds: you're right in principle, but not in practice. It's super-easy to be right in principle (especially when you're a commenter on a website).
In practice, where a lot of we USians of voting age try to live, the grownups work to keep things moving generally forward rather than taking our toys and going home when we don't get the color juice cup we want.
The federal gov't is broken because it has been screwed up by career politicians that act more in their own self interest than that of their voter base....Hillary is another one of those. Maybe an uncouth, unconventional businessman is what we need....just playing the Devil's advocate.
The pres may not be as important as they seem to be:
The federal gov't is broken because it has been screwed up by career politicians that act more in their own self interest than that of their voter base
This article makes a very good case for the opposite explanation.
"Chaos syndrome is a chronic decline in the political system’s capacity for self-organization. It begins with the weakening of the institutions and brokers—political parties, career politicians, and congressional leaders and committees—that have historically held politicians accountable to one another and prevented everyone in the system from pursuing naked self-interest all the time. As these intermediaries’ influence fades, politicians, activists, and voters all become more individualistic and unaccountable. The system atomizes. Chaos becomes the new normal—both in campaigns and in the government itself.
Our intricate, informal system of political intermediation, which took many decades to build, did not commit suicide or die of old age; we reformed it to death. For decades, well-meaning political reformers have attacked intermediaries as corrupt, undemocratic, unnecessary, or (usually) all of the above. Americans have been busy demonizing and disempowering political professionals and parties, which is like spending decades abusing and attacking your own immune system. Eventually, you will get sick."
so condescending. you think you're going to win an argument by name calling sameolddoctor?
it is people like sameolddoctor who sat on their lazy ass, condescendingly criticising the Occupy movement (whose advocates later, along with others, gathered behind that person..what is his name...Bernie Sanders) and the like while, towards the end, tell you there is no choice but those two clowns.
is it exactly what Donna said: she doesnt fucking care. well, if you don't fucking care, you get two clowns - one a racist bigot and the other a homocidal lying psychopath- who also dont fucking care about you...then you start to argue who doesnt fucking care more or less than the other.
Hillary has serious flaws, but at least she doesn't keep a copy of Hitler's speeches on her bedside table, and she's not accused of violently raping a 13-year-old
two clowns from the same circus
.
Carry on
he: racist misogynistic clown
she: warmongering psychopath Wallstreet clown
yawn
Bombastic man-child or corrupt, compulsive liar?
Decisions, decisions...
Oh fuck you OP, the GOP's bullshit propoganda has gotten to you. It is time this country had a woman president, and I am with her.
a vote for Hilllary is a vote for the G.W.H. Bush war machine and same old same old and a vote for Trump - I do not know, but Holy Shit is the first thought I have.......see Mark Twain
sameolddoctor that is about the most assinine reason to vote for Hillary.
Voter suppression art. I could not hate that more if I had to.
There is a big difference between them.
He is a sociopath and a lunatic.
She is imperfect but acceptable.
What z1111 said, but I'll go even further: Proposing that there is any normal metric to compare them, that those two humans are anywhere in the same circle of experience, leadership, intelligence, and global standing, is stupidity.
and remember its just the presidency....if George W. could do it, anyone can! can't be all that serious of a position.
W could not do it.
The worst foreign policy disaster in the history of the republic and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
This would not have happened if Al Gore had been president. Don't fool yourself into thinking that voting doesn't count.
lobbying counts.
Don't vote. It just encourages them.
why would you vote for all the below :
1- compulsive liar
2- a warmonger
3- a venal politician on the side of Wall Street, Big Pharma
How did that become acceptable?
And who said that her, as a woman president, would make things better for women? If anything, she'll make life more miserable and poor for those who are not super rich, men or women. It's the same with Obama; there are more people of colour in jails and being killed than before...what good did he do there?
It is unfortunate that the stark dual polarity of the political scene in the US (Democrat vs Republican) dictates how people think as well, confined within those two boxes. Trump is a racist bigot - a wolf in wolf's skin- and Clinton is all the above, using her attacks on Trump and the supportive liberal media coverage as sheep skin- a wolf in sheep's skin.
Good thing the president's power is limited and we have congress. Oh nevermind.
haha, tintt. good one.
And who said that her, as a woman president, would make things better for women?
I'm not saying that as a woman Hillary would make things better for women. I'm saying as a political leader in the Democratic party of the US, she will work to try to make things better for women, as opposed to the other party who is actively working to make things worse for women, both here and abroad.
At least this will usher in a new era of politics. I sense the beginning of the end of the dem-repub party games.
Donna do you support Hillary?
I'll use my vote to get Bill as First Gentleman.
archiwutm8, I'm voting for Hillary, assuming she is the nominee for the Democrats.
"Liberal Democratic Hillary Clinton supporters get defensive when they hear that Mrs. Clinton is favored over Donald Trump by right-wing billionaires like Charles Koch and (with much more enthusiasm) by leading arch-imperial foreign policy Neoconservatives like Robert Kagan, Max Boot, and Eliot Cohen. But an honest look at Hillary’s record should make the support she is getting from such noxious, arch-authoritarian “elites” less than surprising.
My last essay reflected on Hillary’s deeply conservative, neoliberal, and pro-Big Business career in domestic U.S. politics and policy. This article turns to her foreign policy history, showing why it makes perfect sense that top imperial Neocons prefer Hillary over the at least outwardly “isolationist” and at anti-interventionist Trump."
From Hillary Clinton’s Neocon Resumé
And another article linked within the one linked to above is also an interesting read in Counterpunch - Feminism is Bigger Than Gender: Why I’ll be Happy in Hell Without Hillary
Hillary has already proven, over and over, that she’s a good friend to Wall Street and the capitalists and will do their bidding, whether it’s making sure no legislation is passed that will make them pay their fair share of taxes, raise the minimum wage, stop protecting the big banks and the bankers, or waging whatever war is required in order to protect the empire. She will be crowned, with or without my vote in the next few months.
Hillary’s record: does this look like feminism to you?
* Voted for the still ongoing Iraq War and an escalation of the Afghanistan war
* Voted to bail out Wall Street and the big banks
* Voted against splitting up the big banks
* Voted for the TPP which protects Wall Street banks and huge corporations from any regulations that would interfere with their profits
* Voted for the Keystone Pipeline – a pending environmental disaster
* Voted for border fence legislation
* Voted for off-shore drilling
* Supported raising the minimum wage to $12 an hour, even though the proposal is to raise it to $15 an hour, only after having her arm twisted – which will still leave people far below the standard of living
* Stated that she was for abortion only in “rare” circumstances
* Is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations, the defender of the elites, with her daughter also recently installed as a member
* She has announced that she was “very flattered when Henry Kissinger said I ran the State Department better than anybody had run it in a long time” (The Nation, Feb. 5, 2016)
* Supported decimating the welfare system during her husband’s presidency and suggested women on welfare were “just sitting around the house doing nothing” – referred to “these people” as “deadbeats”
I know all that chatter and I don't fucking care. The lesser of two evils is a thing.
All I'm going to say is that I'm less than happy with the choices we have. The only thing that has me voting for Hillary right now is that she isn't Donald Trump.
Had Vermin Supreme taken the Libertarian Party nomination, I would have voted for him. Who doesn't want a president that wears a boot on his head?
I never doubted that , Donna.
this principle of voting in the lesser of two evils will eventually land you with larger and larger evils all the while anaesthetizing your sensibility towards evil.
Trump is running to help elect Hill anyways.... to usher in a new era of politics. Look to the future.
Well said chatter.
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2016/news/160314/donald-hillary-800.jpg
donna, don't know if they are in the same circle, but sure looks like they both are having a good time in each other's company
dillary crump for president!
If a 3rd party is on the ballot I'll vote...whether it's Jill Stein or Gary Johnson. I like Johnson, he's a very reasonable and liberal libertarian. I don't agree with all of his ideas (many I do), but he is certainly a thoughtful politician. Same goes for Jill Stein, I don't share all of her views, but she is very smart. I really don't care much about policy...most of them are just playing the cards of their team anyway...and its all rigged from within. I vote for character first, and neither Trump or Hillary are of good character. Hillary is more polite, I'll give her that, but the average meth head is more polite than trump so....
I'll just leave this here...
The greatest irony is that a Trump victory is pretty much the only thing that can save the Democratic Party now.
I am with Mark Twain. See what I did there?
The oligarchy is in charge anyway and they are not too concerned with who is president. All the candidates sound like they are on our side while running but then they all sound the same once they are in office and major policy does not change. Maintain empire is their marching orders. Think back has any president ever made an impact on your life for the better? More likely for the worst because the president / government is not interested in our well being only on perpetuating the oligarchy and their interest.
I have a vision of the new president being sat down by the Rothschilds, Vanderbilts, and Rockefellers and they give the new president their agenda and show who really has the power. Then they walk out of the room turn turn off the lights and the Zapruder film flickers on in the darkness.
From here Here's a little film
BANKERS
“The bank hath benefit of interest on all moneys which it creates out of nothing.” William Paterson, founder of the Bank of England in 1694, then a privately owned bank
“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.
“The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.” The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.
“I am afraid the ordinary citizen will not like to be told that the banks can and do create money. And they who control the credit of the nation direct the policy of Governments and hold in the hollow of their hand the destiny of the people.” Reginald McKenna, as Chairman of the Midland Bank, addressing stockholders in 1924.
“The banks do create money. They have been doing it for a long time, but they didn’t realise it, and they did not admit it. Very few did. You will find it in all sorts of documents, financial textbooks, etc. But in the intervening years, and we must be perfectly frank about these things, there has been a development of thought, until today I doubt very much whether you would get many prominent bankers to attempt to deny that banks create it.” H W White, Chairman of the Associated Banks of New Zealand, to the New Zealand Monetary Commission, 1955.
OTHERS
“Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal – that there is no human relation between master and slave.” Leo Tolstoy, Russian writer.
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company.
“The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is, perhaps, the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banks can in fact inflate, mint and un-mint the modern ledger-entry currency.” Major L L B Angus.
“The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent.” John Kenneth Galbraith (1908- ), former professor of economics at Harvard, writing in ‘Money: Whence it came, where it went’ (1975).
As Nicolas Trist – secretary to President Andrew Jackson – said about the incredibly powerful privately owned Second Bank of the United States, “Independently of its misdeeds, the merepower, — the bare existence of such a power, — is a thing irreconcilable with the nature and spirit of our institutions.” (Schlesinger, The Age of Jackson, p.102)
http://https://medium.com/@michaelarnovitz/thinking-about-hillary-a-plea-for-reason-308fce6d187c#.ek4lcrpbj
I'm with tintt and Donna. Hillary has serious flaws, but at least she doesn't keep a copy of Hitler's speeches on her bedside table, and she's not accused of violently raping a 13-year-old. I'd vote for bubonic plague over Donald Trump.
duck frump
hillary, if nothing else, understands the job and treats it seriously
Donna
"I know all that chatter and I don't fucking care. The lesser of two evils is a thing."
Not this time.
I used to think that after the primaries, that I should stand behind the approved nominee of my party. That idea died quit a long time ago. If you can not say you like your candidate, what they stand for and are doing, don't vote at all. Because at that point, you are responsible for them. JMHO. and I am not voting at all, not for president anyways.
Local elections are more important. I'll probably vote for Jill Stein again.
Yeah, but trump will make for better late night comedy material. When he destroys the country, which he probably will, it will also be funny to see all the dummies that voted for him try to blame Obama. Overall, yeah Hillary will probably fuck stuff up less, but trump will do it in a funnier way while shutting up his base. When Hillary fucks things up it will just make his base louder. If we survive a trump presidency it may ultimately put the country in a better direction...kinda like a scared straight program for America. I want to reserve my right to complain either way, which is why I will either vote for a third party or stay home...
america is already destroyed. hillary is just better at managing the collapse.
For all of you idiots claiming that "the act of voting itself adds to the malaise that we find ourselves in", just remember, that there is a whole portion of the country that is uneducated, uncouth, and plain criminal that will go vote for Trump come election day. Your laziness to go and vote will cause the demise of the whole premise of the nation.
Here's an article that might interest the "parrots":
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/04/02/stop-parroting-gop-lies-hillary-clinton-dishonest.html
Exactly, sameolddoctor.
On the fence, not voting at all IS voting - it's voting for a bunch of people who hate you to get to choose who they want to be your president.
Acting like not voting for the lesser of two evils is somehow a noble and principled act is childish bullshit. Be a grownup.
chatter of clouds: you're right in principle, but not in practice. It's super-easy to be right in principle (especially when you're a commenter on a website).
In practice, where a lot of we USians of voting age try to live, the grownups work to keep things moving generally forward rather than taking our toys and going home when we don't get the color juice cup we want.
The federal gov't is broken because it has been screwed up by career politicians that act more in their own self interest than that of their voter base....Hillary is another one of those. Maybe an uncouth, unconventional businessman is what we need....just playing the Devil's advocate.
The pres may not be as important as they seem to be:
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/freakonomics-radio-how-much-does-the-president-really-matter/
The federal gov't is broken because it has been screwed up by career politicians that act more in their own self interest than that of their voter base
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/
This article makes a very good case for the opposite explanation.
"Chaos syndrome is a chronic decline in the political system’s capacity for self-organization. It begins with the weakening of the institutions and brokers—political parties, career politicians, and congressional leaders and committees—that have historically held politicians accountable to one another and prevented everyone in the system from pursuing naked self-interest all the time. As these intermediaries’ influence fades, politicians, activists, and voters all become more individualistic and unaccountable. The system atomizes. Chaos becomes the new normal—both in campaigns and in the government itself.
Our intricate, informal system of political intermediation, which took many decades to build, did not commit suicide or die of old age; we reformed it to death. For decades, well-meaning political reformers have attacked intermediaries as corrupt, undemocratic, unnecessary, or (usually) all of the above. Americans have been busy demonizing and disempowering political professionals and parties, which is like spending decades abusing and attacking your own immune system. Eventually, you will get sick."
so condescending. you think you're going to win an argument by name calling sameolddoctor?
it is people like sameolddoctor who sat on their lazy ass, condescendingly criticising the Occupy movement (whose advocates later, along with others, gathered behind that person..what is his name...Bernie Sanders) and the like while, towards the end, tell you there is no choice but those two clowns.
is it exactly what Donna said: she doesnt fucking care. well, if you don't fucking care, you get two clowns - one a racist bigot and the other a homocidal lying psychopath- who also dont fucking care about you...then you start to argue who doesnt fucking care more or less than the other.
"you think you're going to win an argument by name calling"
"...you get two clowns - one a racist bigot and the other a homocidal lying psychopath"
Hillary has serious flaws, but at least she doesn't keep a copy of Hitler's speeches on her bedside table, and she's not accused of violently raping a 13-year-old
Yeah, it's her husband that would've done that.
homocidal homocidal
lying..gay mariage, not gay mariage, Honduras coup not Honduras coup, private emails not private emails...about anything really...but according do her: she will do her best not to lie to the american people lol
psychopath, well . compulsive lying + bloodthirsty warmongering = psychopath
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