It's an office debate. For a residence with 10' ceilings what would be better proportionally, 32" or 24" high wainscoting? My money is on 24" to make the room feel taller in height.
Please no copy paste on classical proportions. Reference links are ok. Limit responses to under 250 words per post unless you're Michelangelo (you're not). Thanks.
Agreed with JLC. 24" seems somewhere between awkwardly high for baseboard and awkwardly low for wainscoting / chair rail.
General rule in my experience is 1/3 ceiling height, which puts you at 40" You could get away with 32-36" for sure with a big crown or some kind of coffer. How elaborate / classical are we trying to get here?
chair rail should be 1/3 the ceiling height, so at 120", it would be 40".
if 1/3 isn't the right number, you could of course use the golden section, which would be about 120" * 0.3819660113 = 45.835921". that's rounded of course, so you won't actually get the spiritual benefits of the classic proportions you don't want mentioned.
I have a home with 8 foot ceilings and the wainscoting in the dining room is 36 inches and it looks proportional. The same proportions for a ten foot ceiling would be 45 inches, but that seems high. 42 inches seems about right. You also need to consider the spacing between the wainscoting and the bottom of the windows and adjust accordingly.
It's a 6" tall crown. We started looking at early colonial American buildings and in general it seemed like it ranged from low 24" to high 42" as people suggest. or the wainscoting just covered the entire wall. I guess visiting some and measuring them would be ideal but I'm located I'm very far away from colonial New England.
Stupid debate, what's a number? What's the window size / sill height? 8-0 or 6-8 doors? As mentioned above base / crown size? etc. A chair rail at 40" would be well above most chairs. Flat ceilings don't have verticality, they have horizontality.
If not hypothetical sketch it out and try various proportions. I think that's what designers are supposed to do. If hypothetical you need a keg to get started.
I have a project which is an old Connecticut Rambler. The dining room has ten foot ceilings. The Chair rail was set at 24 inches ages a go by the old purist who thought they knew everything. The original owner installed French hand silk screened wall paper, and thought it was just the stuff the house needed. The house went thru several variations over the years but the wall paper always remained. When my client purchased the house, the former owner had researched the value of the wall paper...and I was a sit down and take notice kind a number. They were not crazy about the wall paper because due to the fact that the chair rail was so low all the activity in the wall paper was to low. So they hired an well know restoration artist to improve upon the paper. I recall the first time I met him he was 6'-9" tall and drove a bright green convertible Caddy with a with a white leather interior. He took me into the dining room and waved his hands....in a Commanding manner and said, "There is no such thing as imperfect French Wallpaper." I looked at him and then he started pointing out all of the miss alignments and weird twerks in the paper. He then went on to say...."There is no such thing as imperfect French Wallpaper in France because the sent it all to America." I could not have agreed with him more. Over the next few weeks he did an amazing job of filling in all the dead spots and raising the level of activity in the overall image so you had a feeling that it was actually designed for the room. So I would day raise the rail to what ever height feels comfortable in the field. Sometimes things are better understood in the construction of the project in lieu of wasting time on it in the office.
I did a project recently that i aligned it with the window sash. I guess that made it around 60" off the floor with a 10'-0" ceiling? It was awesome- I think it made the room imposing by making the inhabitant small.
The client said he was intimidated and lowered it - now its random and sucks...
32-36 inches I would think is standard especially for anything over 8 feet in height. I bought a new home last year with 9 foot ceilings and the chair rail in the dining room was at 26" What a waste and it was visually annoying. Didn't matter really as I gutted the entire first floor. Added a 36" high wainscot in the dining room.
I'm certain that Shoemuncher could plug this into a parametric calculator and have the only correct answer in a couple of weeks or so. Which would of course be that ...
Went to an Italian restaurant today that had a chair rail and wainscoting. Unfortunately the top of the chair backs were below the chair rail and sure enough the wainscoting was scuffed. I think the lesson is that no matter how high the ceilings are the chair rail should protect the paneling. Something about 'form follows function'?
The whole point of a wainscot is to protect the wall from furniture or other stuff moving against or banging into it. So the height should be set so that the wall is protected from whatever is in it.
And for those who think this is a quaint affectation with no modern purpose, go wander around a recently built hospital or high school and notice all the nice modern wainscoting everywhere, protecting those walls from gurneys and students and other mobile engines of destruction.
As for proportioning to room height, that should depend on what sort of ordering logic you are using in your design approach. There is no magic number.
wainscot has nothing to do with chairs. it's historically a more durable material used to protect the lower part of the wall that gets more abuse than the upper part of the wall.
if the italian restaurant had wainscotting damaged by a chair, then why was the wainscotting a different material than the chair rail?
Miles you are correct. We will 3D model and physically model a room to understand the proportions.
I'm not convinced it's always to guard against chairs. When they built wainscoting 300 years ago they weren't working off of a typical chair height because there were no typical chair heights as there are today.
If you look at colonial era building in America you will see entire walls with wood paneling. I'd say the choice is based on availability and cost of wood, desired look, perhaps functional requirements as noted above.
mid-14c., "imported oak of superior quality" (well-grained and without knots), probably from Middle Dutch or Middle Flemish waghenscote "superior quality oak wood, board used for paneling" (though neither of these is attested as early as the English word), related to Middle Low German wagenschot (late 14c.), from waghen (see wagon) + scote "partition, crossbar." So called perhaps because the wood originally was used for wagon building and coachwork, but the sense evolution is not entirely clear. Meaning "panels lining the walls of rooms" is recorded from 1540s. Wainscoting is from 1570s.
Architectural Woodwork Standards (AWS) Edition I, 2009; Glossary:
WAINSCOT: A lower interior wall surface that contrasts with the wall surface above it. Unless otherwise specified, it shall be 48” (1219 mm) in height above the floor.
... thanks, but no thanks. I'll be specifying otherwise.
Dec 16, 15 6:38 pm ·
·
E_I and no_form,
There is no strict rule. It's largely a visual sense of proportions that are the guiding rule. Use your visual senses.
Look forward to how it goes. Visually, I would keep think visually linkage between the door's middle rail (sometimes called lock rail) and the windows. It would be a matter of visual proportion and do your best. I think what's important is visual proportion with the space and ambience. I seen it at various heights. If this is a historic restoration or renovation or rehabilitation, then take consideration from historic records of the building for guidance.
If it is a new construction, look at other buildings in the area for traditions and consideration of regional standards. Compare between residential, commercial, institutional and governmental buildings. Draw from structures of like type and spatial configuration. If a building is residential then draw from residential. If building is academic or otherwise, maybe borrow from others with similar spatial profile. Again, it come down to visually making sense with the whole sense of the space.
What I am saying is probably said but I think that essence is more important than a specific number.
It is possible to have a chair rail without wainscoting and it is possible to have wainscoting without a chair rail. You could have wainscoting halfway, or all the way, up the wall, but if you did have a chair rail it should be low enough to prevent chairs from hitting the wall. In that case you would have to design the panels in the wainscoting to visually accommodate the stair railing running across them.
I personally like to keep it inline with the height of tables and or chair backs, this creates a point of reference for artwork or mirrors. I have always viewed it as a maintenance helper with high traffic areas making dirt and dents and dings less likely to mar the walls. Often in older homes the halls bathrooms kitchens and dining rooms have wainscot and chair rails as it is likely people or furniture will be moved and bump against the wall.
Wainscot or wainscotting is the material, not the application. In classically-inspired designs it would properly be called a dado. As with all classically-inspired work you can look to what classical architecture tells us, which puts the top of the dado (the chair rail) much lower than is typically seen. You can raise the height to whatever you want, for practical or aesthetic reasons.
I avoid cutting the wall height in half but often divide the wall vertically to play with the scale of the space. I tend to use 2/5 or 3/5 as pleasing proportions but there are no rules you must follow. Going high on the wall can make a space feel taller and grander, while also bringing the scale down to a more comfortable height.
Another thing to keep in mind is to avoid strong horizontal lines at the height of peoples' necks when they are seated. Maybe it's a feng shui thing but it causes a feeling of unease. So unless that's what you are going for, keep chair rails (and cubicle walls, and the sill height of ganged windows) at any other height.
Wainscoting
Please no copy paste on classical proportions. Reference links are ok. Limit responses to under 250 words per post unless you're Michelangelo (you're not). Thanks.
24" seems too low, and it wouldn't have any function as wall protection.
I would make it 42" for a 10' ceiling. how tall is the crown?
24" is too low. 32" is probably to low. Shouldn't it be the height of the chair rail ... around 36"?
Edit: Found this in an image search. It looks like the article is behind a paywall.
Agreed with JLC. 24" seems somewhere between awkwardly high for baseboard and awkwardly low for wainscoting / chair rail.
General rule in my experience is 1/3 ceiling height, which puts you at 40" You could get away with 32-36" for sure with a big crown or some kind of coffer. How elaborate / classical are we trying to get here?
chair rail should be 1/3 the ceiling height, so at 120", it would be 40".
if 1/3 isn't the right number, you could of course use the golden section, which would be about 120" * 0.3819660113 = 45.835921". that's rounded of course, so you won't actually get the spiritual benefits of the classic proportions you don't want mentioned.
I have a home with 8 foot ceilings and the wainscoting in the dining room is 36 inches and it looks proportional. The same proportions for a ten foot ceiling would be 45 inches, but that seems high. 42 inches seems about right. You also need to consider the spacing between the wainscoting and the bottom of the windows and adjust accordingly.
Side thought: At 32" you could do some interesting paneling or column placement to exaggerate the verticality of a 10' ceiling.
Stupid debate, what's a number? What's the window size / sill height? 8-0 or 6-8 doors? As mentioned above base / crown size? etc. A chair rail at 40" would be well above most chairs. Flat ceilings don't have verticality, they have horizontality.
If not hypothetical sketch it out and try various proportions. I think that's what designers are supposed to do. If hypothetical you need a keg to get started.
It's not the ceiling that has verticality, it's the whole ten-foot-ness of it that you can play up!
I have a project which is an old Connecticut Rambler. The dining room has ten foot ceilings. The Chair rail was set at 24 inches ages a go by the old purist who thought they knew everything. The original owner installed French hand silk screened wall paper, and thought it was just the stuff the house needed. The house went thru several variations over the years but the wall paper always remained. When my client purchased the house, the former owner had researched the value of the wall paper...and I was a sit down and take notice kind a number. They were not crazy about the wall paper because due to the fact that the chair rail was so low all the activity in the wall paper was to low. So they hired an well know restoration artist to improve upon the paper. I recall the first time I met him he was 6'-9" tall and drove a bright green convertible Caddy with a with a white leather interior. He took me into the dining room and waved his hands....in a Commanding manner and said, "There is no such thing as imperfect French Wallpaper." I looked at him and then he started pointing out all of the miss alignments and weird twerks in the paper. He then went on to say...."There is no such thing as imperfect French Wallpaper in France because the sent it all to America." I could not have agreed with him more. Over the next few weeks he did an amazing job of filling in all the dead spots and raising the level of activity in the overall image so you had a feeling that it was actually designed for the room. So I would day raise the rail to what ever height feels comfortable in the field. Sometimes things are better understood in the construction of the project in lieu of wasting time on it in the office.
I'd put this Wayne's coat at about 52" or so.
Assuming no one is in a wheelchair, and those individuals in the space are of average height, I would say:
36" empathetic
32" arrogant
24" aloof
This is based on my own introspective experiments, which are unprovable and are inherently confounded, but I feel are none the less true.
I did a project recently that i aligned it with the window sash. I guess that made it around 60" off the floor with a 10'-0" ceiling? It was awesome- I think it made the room imposing by making the inhabitant small.
The client said he was intimidated and lowered it - now its random and sucks...
32-36 inches I would think is standard especially for anything over 8 feet in height. I bought a new home last year with 9 foot ceilings and the chair rail in the dining room was at 26" What a waste and it was visually annoying. Didn't matter really as I gutted the entire first floor. Added a 36" high wainscot in the dining room.
I'm certain that Shoemuncher could plug this into a parametric calculator and have the only correct answer in a couple of weeks or so. Which would of course be that ...
People still do this?... ..can't remember the last time I saw a house it.
The real question is pronunciation:
wainscahting or wainscōting?
Panelling.
+1 miles
wayne's coat ing
Went to an Italian restaurant today that had a chair rail and wainscoting. Unfortunately the top of the chair backs were below the chair rail and sure enough the wainscoting was scuffed. I think the lesson is that no matter how high the ceilings are the chair rail should protect the paneling. Something about 'form follows function'?
No wainscoting.
That shit is ugly; stop indulging middle america's passion for ugly shit.
The whole point of a wainscot is to protect the wall from furniture or other stuff moving against or banging into it. So the height should be set so that the wall is protected from whatever is in it.
And for those who think this is a quaint affectation with no modern purpose, go wander around a recently built hospital or high school and notice all the nice modern wainscoting everywhere, protecting those walls from gurneys and students and other mobile engines of destruction.
As for proportioning to room height, that should depend on what sort of ordering logic you are using in your design approach. There is no magic number.
Miles I say wainscotING (long O) and also wainscaht. Because yes to everything!
wainscot has nothing to do with chairs. it's historically a more durable material used to protect the lower part of the wall that gets more abuse than the upper part of the wall.
if the italian restaurant had wainscotting damaged by a chair, then why was the wainscotting a different material than the chair rail?
is the OP talking about something like this
or
Miles you are correct. We will 3D model and physically model a room to understand the proportions.
I'm not convinced it's always to guard against chairs. When they built wainscoting 300 years ago they weren't working off of a typical chair height because there were no typical chair heights as there are today.
If you look at colonial era building in America you will see entire walls with wood paneling. I'd say the choice is based on availability and cost of wood, desired look, perhaps functional requirements as noted above.
wainscot (n.)
mid-14c., "imported oak of superior quality" (well-grained and without knots), probably from Middle Dutch or Middle Flemish waghenscote "superior quality oak wood, board used for paneling" (though neither of these is attested as early as the English word), related to Middle Low German wagenschot (late 14c.), from waghen (see wagon) + scote "partition, crossbar." So called perhaps because the wood originally was used for wagon building and coachwork, but the sense evolution is not entirely clear. Meaning "panels lining the walls of rooms" is recorded from 1540s. Wainscoting is from 1570s.
Insulation against old brick/stone walls and it looked cozy.
Sounds like a little Dorset village, doesn't it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPB3nCIYdmo
Architectural Woodwork Standards (AWS) Edition I, 2009; Glossary:
WAINSCOT: A lower interior wall surface that contrasts with the wall surface above it. Unless otherwise specified, it shall be 48” (1219 mm) in height above the floor.
... thanks, but no thanks. I'll be specifying otherwise.
E_I and no_form,
There is no strict rule. It's largely a visual sense of proportions that are the guiding rule. Use your visual senses.
Look forward to how it goes. Visually, I would keep think visually linkage between the door's middle rail (sometimes called lock rail) and the windows. It would be a matter of visual proportion and do your best. I think what's important is visual proportion with the space and ambience. I seen it at various heights. If this is a historic restoration or renovation or rehabilitation, then take consideration from historic records of the building for guidance.
If it is a new construction, look at other buildings in the area for traditions and consideration of regional standards. Compare between residential, commercial, institutional and governmental buildings. Draw from structures of like type and spatial configuration. If a building is residential then draw from residential. If building is academic or otherwise, maybe borrow from others with similar spatial profile. Again, it come down to visually making sense with the whole sense of the space.
What I am saying is probably said but I think that essence is more important than a specific number.
I think you'll do just fine.
It is possible to have a chair rail without wainscoting and it is possible to have wainscoting without a chair rail. You could have wainscoting halfway, or all the way, up the wall, but if you did have a chair rail it should be low enough to prevent chairs from hitting the wall. In that case you would have to design the panels in the wainscoting to visually accommodate the stair railing running across them.
I personally like to keep it inline with the height of tables and or chair backs, this creates a point of reference for artwork or mirrors. I have always viewed it as a maintenance helper with high traffic areas making dirt and dents and dings less likely to mar the walls. Often in older homes the halls bathrooms kitchens and dining rooms have wainscot and chair rails as it is likely people or furniture will be moved and bump against the wall.
Wainscot or wainscotting is the material, not the application. In classically-inspired designs it would properly be called a dado. As with all classically-inspired work you can look to what classical architecture tells us, which puts the top of the dado (the chair rail) much lower than is typically seen. You can raise the height to whatever you want, for practical or aesthetic reasons.
I avoid cutting the wall height in half but often divide the wall vertically to play with the scale of the space. I tend to use 2/5 or 3/5 as pleasing proportions but there are no rules you must follow. Going high on the wall can make a space feel taller and grander, while also bringing the scale down to a more comfortable height.
Another thing to keep in mind is to avoid strong horizontal lines at the height of peoples' necks when they are seated. Maybe it's a feng shui thing but it causes a feeling of unease. So unless that's what you are going for, keep chair rails (and cubicle walls, and the sill height of ganged windows) at any other height.
Because yes to everything!
Donna's my kind of girl.
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