my question really sprung from realising that i somehow don't stay late nights in the office trying to push a design further, but have spent countless nights rushing for deadlines for clients, authorities, contractors etc which often have almost nothing to do with design. obligation to them perhaps.
Employers have complained to the NCARB that colleges are actually doing a dis-service by structuring architectural education heavily on design. Basically they complain that recent grads are ill prepared for the reality of the business. It's a hot topic of recent.
.nl Has is it right. Project management such as , Production, Coordination, research, specifications, code review,consultant coordination,client meetings and phone calls...meeting deadlines.
lets see, I spend a lot of time trying to keep the water out of the building which involves designing details which can involve: consultant coordination, research, specifications and sometimes even code review and lots of phone calls. is this design or project management?
A, its 100% true, and the fact that NCARB schools do little to prepare students for the reality of the business has been an issue for a while... i suppose that its only recently that the topic has been getting the attention that it deserves.
while i personally think that the design aspects of architecture are the hardest to grasp and that they should remain the focus of architectural education, i also feel that there should be more attention given to the business and practice side of architecture. honestly, i think that students should have a practice related class every semester, or at least most semesters.
to stay on topic, i would estimate my time is probably divided 40% design, 60% PM.
it is not that black and white, design or PM. i am probably like 80% design and 20% other. as an intern, i don't do much real PM. i'm throwing a lot into that design category that others might not though. all that design time I'm counting is not the fun stuff. 5% of it is. seems like a straightforward question, but its not.
3ifs - yes, I was recently at an AIA discussion about how colleges aren't preparing students for the practice. The general attitude of most employers was that design is something that can be learned in the office while they want people that know technical things right out of college. Did any of us learn how to write a spec in college? Most of us graduate with a rudimentary understanding of building systems. I heard many complaints that recent grads don't even know how to write a decent memo.
I'm not advocating lessening the amount of design education that is done in colleges but I do think architecture education is falling short in many aspects. Personally I think that NCARB is using IDP as an extension of our college educations and expecting employers to pick up the tab. Maybe we lengthen the required college courses to cover many of the pro practice areas missed and eliminate the boondoggle that IDP is. Just a thought.
I personally don't think it's at all possible to learn design in an office; its such a subjective thing, the principles must be taught in a more objective environment (if architecture school can ever be called that).
You don't learn to write a spec in college, but you (should) learn to think, to be critical, to have a "designer's eye." There is so much difference between how firms "practice," from my understanding, that it would be difficult to teach that. Although I wish I had known more about the practical/not-fun stuff, it seems to make much more sense to learn as you go, within a firm. It would be much harder to simulate the practical aspects of the architectural process (proposals, working with consultants, fees, client/contractor/code official communication, etc) than it is to simulate the design process. you learn to problem solve, and find the information you don't have, and are hopefully given enough confidence to bullshit your way through things to get that information.
and about that original question--5% 'design', 95% PM.
the other side: we didn't go to tech school. i didn't go to college to learn how to be an architect, i went to school to learn about architecture. big difference.
it does suck that the offices then have to "pick up the tab" though, you're right.
it was once tabulated how long architectural education would be to get in everything that an architect needed to know. 22 years of school was the conclusion. does that sound like a good idea? I don't think so.
Despite the complaints of some firms that architecture students are learning design and theory over technical expertise, I've also heard plenty of principals take the position that they'd rather have architecture students who have been trained in critical and spatial thinking than those who learned about finish schedules and .pcp files. Which type of firm/principal is more likely to be doing good work vs. patient or hotel guest storage?
Jan 27, 05 4:55 pm ·
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What do you spend more time on - design or project managment?
my question really sprung from realising that i somehow don't stay late nights in the office trying to push a design further, but have spent countless nights rushing for deadlines for clients, authorities, contractors etc which often have almost nothing to do with design. obligation to them perhaps.
General rule in architecture:
5% on fun work (would be designing)
95% just plain hard work (say project management)
yep.
Less that 10% of what we do is "design."
Employers have complained to the NCARB that colleges are actually doing a dis-service by structuring architectural education heavily on design. Basically they complain that recent grads are ill prepared for the reality of the business. It's a hot topic of recent.
.nl Has is it right. Project management such as , Production, Coordination, research, specifications, code review,consultant coordination,client meetings and phone calls...meeting deadlines.
lets see, I spend a lot of time trying to keep the water out of the building which involves designing details which can involve: consultant coordination, research, specifications and sometimes even code review and lots of phone calls. is this design or project management?
A, its 100% true, and the fact that NCARB schools do little to prepare students for the reality of the business has been an issue for a while... i suppose that its only recently that the topic has been getting the attention that it deserves.
while i personally think that the design aspects of architecture are the hardest to grasp and that they should remain the focus of architectural education, i also feel that there should be more attention given to the business and practice side of architecture. honestly, i think that students should have a practice related class every semester, or at least most semesters.
to stay on topic, i would estimate my time is probably divided 40% design, 60% PM.
it is not that black and white, design or PM. i am probably like 80% design and 20% other. as an intern, i don't do much real PM. i'm throwing a lot into that design category that others might not though. all that design time I'm counting is not the fun stuff. 5% of it is. seems like a straightforward question, but its not.
3ifs - yes, I was recently at an AIA discussion about how colleges aren't preparing students for the practice. The general attitude of most employers was that design is something that can be learned in the office while they want people that know technical things right out of college. Did any of us learn how to write a spec in college? Most of us graduate with a rudimentary understanding of building systems. I heard many complaints that recent grads don't even know how to write a decent memo.
I'm not advocating lessening the amount of design education that is done in colleges but I do think architecture education is falling short in many aspects. Personally I think that NCARB is using IDP as an extension of our college educations and expecting employers to pick up the tab. Maybe we lengthen the required college courses to cover many of the pro practice areas missed and eliminate the boondoggle that IDP is. Just a thought.
I personally don't think it's at all possible to learn design in an office; its such a subjective thing, the principles must be taught in a more objective environment (if architecture school can ever be called that).
You don't learn to write a spec in college, but you (should) learn to think, to be critical, to have a "designer's eye." There is so much difference between how firms "practice," from my understanding, that it would be difficult to teach that. Although I wish I had known more about the practical/not-fun stuff, it seems to make much more sense to learn as you go, within a firm. It would be much harder to simulate the practical aspects of the architectural process (proposals, working with consultants, fees, client/contractor/code official communication, etc) than it is to simulate the design process. you learn to problem solve, and find the information you don't have, and are hopefully given enough confidence to bullshit your way through things to get that information.
and about that original question--5% 'design', 95% PM.
the other side: we didn't go to tech school. i didn't go to college to learn how to be an architect, i went to school to learn about architecture. big difference.
it does suck that the offices then have to "pick up the tab" though, you're right.
it was once tabulated how long architectural education would be to get in everything that an architect needed to know. 22 years of school was the conclusion. does that sound like a good idea? I don't think so.
Despite the complaints of some firms that architecture students are learning design and theory over technical expertise, I've also heard plenty of principals take the position that they'd rather have architecture students who have been trained in critical and spatial thinking than those who learned about finish schedules and .pcp files. Which type of firm/principal is more likely to be doing good work vs. patient or hotel guest storage?
Block this user
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