I'm looking for some information on jobs that i can fit into for an architectural firm. I have a meeting with a partner to go over how I might be able to help their firm.
I have a degree in American Studies which is a glorified history degree that has a big focus on writing, critical thinking, and a multitude of not so useful things that are attached with a liberal arts degree.
I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this but I would appreciate any information you can give me. In any case, thanks for reading this!
Does the firm have an R&D department? If not, you may be able to help in their Marketing Department with RFP's... or perhaps working in the HR Department... You can also offer to be the firm's go-to guy/gal for their materials library... All of this, of course, will come to a significant indirect employee expense on the part of the firm so you better make sure the investment opportunity somehow pays off for them.
No offense, but someone like you with your major who suddenly decides to go to work for an architect just sounds desperate for a job and kind of professionally lost... I would do some soul searching and really find out what you want to do with your life.
Mar 25, 15 7:40 pm ·
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Architecture firms generally do not hire people outside the architectuere or closely related fields of art, engineering, etc. and those with accounting, business, etc. because that is the kinds of education background that is useful to architectural business.
These general liberal arts degrees are virtually useless on their own in any occupation other than being a teacher, instructor, or professor because the private sector business isn't into such general education subjects.
You need to further the education with something more occupational oriented because a general education is useless because you don't have occupational specific skills which you need to have to perform the work that a job position would have you do. Employers do not train. They aren't a school. They expect employees to have the knowledge and skills already to do the job.
My suggestion is if you want to get into architecture and enroll in 3-year M.Arch or any other degree that people may suggest but you need something more focused and occupationally focused so you have training that can be used by an employer in private sector.
Private sector is about making money through providing goods that customers would buy and performing services clients will pay for. These general skills you have maybe useful but private sector employers aren't interested in just your transferable skills but also skills that they need employees to have. For example, if I hired you, do you know how to prepare a set of construction details in AutoCAD. Do you know how to take field measurements and document them on a coherent drawing? no... okay... do you know how to do financial accounting? The list goes on but they are focused on skill sets necessary to actually get something done in my business and others are similar and it is not unique to architecture.
This means you need to show this not just in your degree but prior work experience.
I would be hard pressed to find a position for someone like yourself at this time. Many would find that a challenge, too. It is not impossible but harder because you don't know architecture. You don't know other disciplines that others are hired or commissioned to do?
What is your knowledge in historic preservation and researching historic documents of buildings. Might be something you may want to further your education which is useful in architecture and even CRM and other private and public sector jobs.
These are ideas so take time and think about them and soul search as another poster stated.
I definitely appreciate the comments and your feedback. I am certainly in a crossroads in life just getting out of college. I had planned to further my education and work at a university level, but going to school right now really isn't an option. I started working as a paraprofessional here in Arizona with the intention of going back to school for my Arizona Teacher certification. Unfortunately, with all of this new legislation being passed, I'm considering jumping ship.
This firm extended a hand and considered meeting with me so I just wanted to do some quick research and see what you guys thought. Also, for a laugh, I do know how navigate my way through CAD because I got "certified" while in high school. I am sure that that means absolutely nothing now!
In any case, thanks for your input guys!
Mar 25, 15 11:44 pm ·
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Actually, that CAD training would be helpful but I recommend you go to a community college with a CAD program and take a refresher course and pick up a book or so on Autocad and download a contemporary version of CAD like student version or a trial version of Autocad 2015 or some of the CAD clones like Nanocad and Draftsight. I recommend you do this and work on some stuff to refresh yourself and start at very entry level junior CAD drafter.
That would be your entry point to sell to an architect but I recommend in the meantime, do a part-time burger flipping job while you get yourself started and brush up on that. If you are lucky to get someone to hire you to do CAD work, great. Then I recommend you to progressively take some architecture course or do some study on architecture subjects.
I agree with Null above. A large planning firm would be much likelier to have the need for research and writing skills.
Mar 26, 15 12:38 pm ·
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Yes, I would agree, too. In addition, some refresher courses from a community college can be helpful to update yourself on newest version of AutoCad and also learning programs like Sketchup and then learning the architectural design theory and principles such as architectural form, spatial planning of function areas (rooms or areas of activity within a room from indoor to outdoor.
It is a good place to start.
Find a job. You may not necessarily want to be an architect but there are a variety of fields to look into which may include real estate development and that maybe a direction for a degree in real estate development.
Suggestion.... look where the money is. I'm sure you're not the kind of knuckle-head that will work 80-100+ hours a week for $30K.
In this world its not what you know its who you know.
Mar 26, 15 6:59 pm ·
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Well it is a bit of both. If you know nothing, it can be that it doesn't matter who you know, they aren't going to hire you because there is no benefit in hiring and spending money if the ROI in not there in a timely manner.
You have to have some basic knowledge that can get oneself the job then the rest may rest in who you know but also how you convince the employer to give you a chance.
Assuming that the partner with whom you're meeting knows a bit about your background already, it's unlikely that they have in mind a CAD role for you at all. Sure, it's worth mentioning to them that you have basic CAD familiarity and were certified in high school. That will help them to feel that you've held long-term interests related to the field, and it may help them feel that you have some understanding of what they do. But I wouldn't suggest cramming on CAD skills now.
What you need to do is exactly what you said yourself: go in and tell him how you can help the firm. First, that will require as much research as you have time for, about them and their work and position in the field. This is much better use of your time right now than focusing on software. Next it will require asking a lot of questions and doing some careful listening in the meeting.
Writing skills are important, and often lacking in architecture firms. Ask them about their marketing materials, process for producing proposals, what additional information they'd like to get onto their website but haven't had time for or couldn't afford, what kind of research you might be able to help with, whether you can help with their social media presence, whether you could help with copy editing, etc. Bring some writing samples. Offer to work at first on a per-blog-post rate, or somesuch limited scope that will give them a better idea of your applicable capabilities, with little risk to them. Since you're likely to be a purely overhead role (not billing hours on current projects) you'll need to show awareness and understanding of how your role can help bring in work, bring awareness of the firm to their target audience, and otherwise contribute to the bottom line.
Have an answer ready for "why are you interested in this field?" It should be one that shows some understanding of the field, and some likely staying power (don't give them the idea you're sowing your always-wanted-to-be-an-architect oats before moving on to grad school or some other career.) Avoid cliche (anything about playing with legos as a child, The Fountainhead, collecting vintage drafting tools, or reading collections of turn-of-the-20th-century drafting tomes...)
Make it clear that you're willing to do some of the less glamorous tasks around the firm - you'd love to be the organizer of the product library! You'd be thrilled to run the plastic-melting binder for hundreds of drawing sets! You'd find it very exciting to learn the nuances of LEED 4.0 inside and out and work them into all 243 specification sections in the firm's template!
I work in a 70-person firm, 13 of whom did not have educational backgrounds or work histories in architecture before they started here. 5 of them are in design or production roles, though none were originally hired in those roles. CAD is of little to no importance when the firm is considering people for other roles.
So just to keep you guys updated. I had the meeting and they want me to help them with researching and planning as well as in their marketing department. They expressed that they always have a need within marketing and would like to use my abilities. They needed someone who can research histories of buildings they're working on to incorporate history into their design.
When I mentioned my history of CAD in high school. They laughed and said they don't use CAD anymore but appreciate the information.
They also expressed a desire to have someone run their social media and to look into new avenues of marketing themselves. So I guess that's something!
Thanks for your help and information guys. It definitely helped within the meeting.
Mar 27, 15 1:33 pm ·
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They are using BIM which in reality is another kind of CAD because CAD means computer aided design or CADD (computer aided design and drafting), so they are still computer aided design.
BIM packages may be Revit or Archicad.
Good, you found an way in. update yourself on tools they have for designing but maybe stick with the area they have in mind for you and develop your knowledge and skills there and possibly over time, develop your knowledge in Revit or Archicad.
But, mentioning that you had this knowledge because there is some things from CAD that still is present in preparation of construction documents which they still have to prepare.
I would probably advise you to find a good masters degree in historic preservation or similar programs which is research oriented because that would aid in your ability to research buildings as an 'architectural historian' of buildings in the community.
Look to places like heritage or historical preservation societies in your locality and the libraries, etc. Some things you'll want to learn how to do properly is historic resource survey, national register nomination and preparing documents. Some of this may or may not apply to this particular position but will help your professional development and value as you may go from company to company. You may even be benefitted to learn about GIS as you can compile this information not only geographically but also over a timeline which can develop a picture of that information. We are now talking about history of buildings but a little bit of cultural geography which is still valuable to planning.
Congratulations - it sounds like they have a clear idea of how to use your skills, and that the meeting went well.
You'll probably be busy enough with this position that pursuing new fields of study can wait a bit. On-the-job experience is often much more valuable - and if nothing else it gives you some positive earning years and years of experience - while spending tuition and time generally has the opposite effect.
Mr. Balkins you seem to be a great fan of more study, more degrees, more certificates - but what has that taken from your experience base? In other threads you've mentioned many years of community college, associates degrees in multiple fields, etc. How many years of full time experience do you have in architecture? How many firms have you worked in? Your advice to job seekers is consistently off-kilter - I'm starting to wonder whether all of your experience is as a sole-practitioner and student?
98-99% of the job positions in architecture field requires a degree or advance degrees and will continue to be that way. The suggestion is for long term value and ability to go from firm to firm. A job might be good but HR looks at education then experience. If they don't see the qualification on education then you're rejected. They typically look for education AND experience but education as pre-requisite that must be checklisted before looking at experience. Alot of HR folks are very drone-like and its competitive with an average of 200+ applicants for every single job position in this field. Lets remember, workplaces aren't training centers. Employers, in general, don't teach, they assign tasks because it is generally not profitable in our profession to do on the job training to any extensive level. Anything more than 4-8 hours for the first day is like going to be breaking the bank if they do that routinely.
I do not work as an employee because I have my building design/historic preservation consultant/etc. business and my software development business. Early on, I went into building design as a sole-proprietor because in my locality, there isn't many employers in architecture. They almost don't exist. Now, the only architecture firm that exists is Tolovana Architects (a small firm but nothing negative) in my area without going all the way to Portland, Oregon. I wouldn't want to be negative about them but pragmatic that it is not often that we see a lot of firms actively employing in the area. This is due to a small market and not many practitioners.
Can you provide a source for your assertion that there are 200+ applicants per job? This doesn't jive with the number of grads in the field vs. the number of existing jobs in firms and projected growth, per the Department of Labor. it also doesn't match the experience of any of the firms at which I've worked.
Again, the things you're saying don't seem to be based on real experience. Few architecture firms have HR people at all - whether drone-like or not. Almost no firms with fewer than 50 people have dedicated HR staff, and there are only a few hundred firms of that size nationwide. A typical architecture firm doesn't have a mindless HR person sorting through hundreds of resumes trashing those that don't meet a checklist. More typically it's an architect partner or manager selecting candidates to interview. If there is an earlier gate-keeper round of screening it's likely to be done by an office administrator or intern/designer who has been there a few years. A well-crafted cover letter can have as much to do with who gets through to the interview stage as anything in a resume.
You have your reasons for your career path, and I'm not judging. My issue is that you're giving a lot of advice about jobs with firms, when by your own admission you have little or no experience with jobs in firms. It's a similar situation with your advice about grad school admissions, schools you haven't attended, tests you haven't taken, and credentials you haven't earned. If somebody were to ask about being a "building designer" in a small market in Oregon then you'd be the expert. But for subjects in which you have no first-hand experience it would be better to refrain from contributing half-truths, assumptions, and third-hand information.
Mar 27, 15 10:22 pm ·
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You heard of HR companies that does that for you.
None of the firms that would hire someone like the OP are going to be that small that they would not use an HR service company or have an HR staff because smaller architectural firms wouldn't hire someone who isn't in architecture track except a business administrator which would have a Business administration degree, or an office management degree or similar degree and maybe someone with marketing degree or digital graphics. Everyone else is contracted like the IT.
Firms with 25 EMPLOYEES or more will typically contract an HR service because they are cheap and a busy architect principal doesn't have the time to do the collecting applications and paring down and their interns are busy at the CAD station and it typically is cheap to have an HR company collect and run the pre-screen process which is mostly computer automated. Even if the firm collects it the resume, it is passed to the HR company to pre-screen to come back with the top 10-20 to review for interview.
After this recession, the vast majority of those that were unemployed is still unemployed in architecture plus you got the schools pumping out students at ever increasing volume. So, 200 people applying at every job being the norm is pretty standard and typical in an overly over supplied profession with so few projects and hence forth so few job positions.
People in pre-screening phase doesn't really look at cover letter. They skim the resume or have a computer scan the stuff.
You have to have a degree in the subject matter of the job position in most architectural employment. It is stated in the job posting and those in pre-screen only lets those whose application explicitly meets all the stated requirements in the job posting. It is because no one in that positions wants to explain why they let someone who didn't have all the requirements through.
It's basically the way this stuff is done and with the high over supply of applicants in architecture what is the incentive of considering someone without all the requirements for a position. The only time you see an architecture employer take an exception is if there is a lack of response for a job posting.
I highly doubt that is happening anytime soon.
Cover letters aren't even looked at until you get the number of applications to look at down to under 25. That way, you have 2 minutes to look at the applicants file because most employers that will be looking at who to interview will not spend more than an hour on this.
If your firm is so small and is almost a no name outside the local community, you probably aren't hiring and usually they look to contract employment. If they did employ, they would not have to pre-screen because their job postings are local and very limited attention hence small response of applicants. That is if they post job postings.
In which case, it is more about friendship and knowing a friend in the field that is unemployed and a phone call.
In 25+ years in architecture firms, ranging from 2 to 200 people, I've never once encountered an architecture firm that outsources to an HR company. Architecture firms don't tend to operate that way. They take a more personal, hand-picked approach to hiring. I would agree that cover letters are important. They're where we get a sense of who the person is and what they can do for us. If somebody comes across well in what they tell us about themselves, what they can do, and why they want to do it, it isn't essential that they meet every criterion in our ad. What I care about re education isn't so much the NAAB degree but evidence of a clear direction and follow through.
To the OP: congrats on getting a foot in the door. it sounds as though you've made a favorable impression.
Mar 28, 15 1:48 am ·
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Aluminate,
Okay. There is several firms out there so okay. Fair enough. Sure, some firms however outsource parts of the HR process because they can't spend the time to sift through personally over hundreds of apps for a single position they may have open. It is hand picking when they get the large list of people cut down to a smaller list. Some firms have a person who's role includes HR stuff.
I'm glad that you take a more personal approach to hiring. I don't disagree that cover letters are important. I'm glad the OP has gotten a foot in the door and made a favorable impression. My suggestion for him in the long term is further educational development which can increase likelihood for future job positions.
In my life it is a matter of survival and as for direction, I may be less concerned about specific directions as I need to adapt to changes. A question I have at times is why would I be that important to an established firm. What can I provide to a firm. As a sole-proprietor, I operate on my own accord so it can often be a challenge to sell what I can be of value to someone else.The fact I work to my own accord, I tend not to work as an employee to others. One of the things that make working as an intern in a typical manner seem like a royally big step back from being a sole-proprietorship and restrictive on creative freedom then again it might not always be that bad as clients can be just as bad or worse.
Can you provide a source for your assertion that there are 200+ applicants per job?
When I was looking for a job a year and a half ago many positions had 100-300 applicants. A number of places told me this, including the place I work for now. A lot of spots never get publicly opened though, so that is a different story.
The market is much better now though. I know our summer internship applications were a third of what they were last year.
@ Richard smaller architectural firms wouldn't hire someone who isn't in architecture track except a business administrator
Most research centered firms are small, so I don’t think this is entirely true.
@Aluminate
I worked for a consulting firm that had an HR service, I also had two interviews (out of 12) the last time I was looking for a job that were with HR services. So it happens. It feels really strange though, because the interviews are completely different with them than with designers. People who work in HR at firms are typically much better.
Mar 29, 15 3:15 am ·
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nate, I think such firms are medium size. As in 25-50. Maybe not the 1000+ person firms but big enough to hire someone with a degree not in architecture or a closely related degree such as interior design or historic preservation. If the firm gets smaller than 25, the person needs to also have an architecture related education so they can be assigned them to do drafting and other work that needs to be done within architecture because that is what they'll be focusing us.
My firm employs many non-architects in marketing, business development, and ideation. If you want a job, start going to architecture events, join the AIA, Architecture for Humanity, or other public-interest design organizations. Go to lectures, talks, final reviews, meet people and learn about the industry and the professionals in your area. You will never do architectural design without a degree or many years of training into it, but you will have a chance to work with the built environment.
@richard Most really intensive research firms are less than ten people, because the model doesn't support larger groups. It's true that a typical architecture firm under 25 people probably wouldn't hire the OP, but research based ones might. Of course most of the people who run these firms are in academia and thus hire people out of academia, so that would be a different hurdle getting into that circle.
Mar 29, 15 1:39 pm ·
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Good point natematt.
archanonymous,
In my case, it might be a little different than the OP. Then my background inside and outside of the architecture field would be a tad different than the OP at the moment.
I am currently a Paralegal and I want to transition into the world of architecture. I however am deep with degrees and certifications that cater to the legal world. I have a BS in Justice Studies from Northeastern Illinois University and a Post Graduate Litigation Practice Certificate in Paralegal Studies from Loyola university Chicago. What positions can I attain with my degrees at an architectural firm while learning and growing and eventually going back to school for an architectural degree? Thanks for the help in advance,
What do any of those pieces of paper have that's related to construction? Only avenue I see is contract negotiation, but even there, hard to see anyone needing legal staff just for that.
you'd have better luck in a law firm specializing in construction law. I know at least on architect turned lawyer. The only lawyer I know who wanted to become an architect gave up once he realized how time consuming the process is. - 5 to 6 years min.
The good news is that most of the country is hopping in right now and anyone should be able to get a job, even if that takes leaving astoria.
Apr 25, 17 10:12 am ·
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tanwright81@gmail.com
Thank you, I am very much aware of the time, however i would like to get my foot in the door somehow, and see where it takes me. I only referenced my history to see whether there are any options for transition. I will examine the construction law options we well,
thanks much
-Tanya
Apr 25, 17 10:35 am ·
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Jobs in an Architecture firm for a Non-Architectural degrees.
Hey guys,
I'm looking for some information on jobs that i can fit into for an architectural firm. I have a meeting with a partner to go over how I might be able to help their firm.
I have a degree in American Studies which is a glorified history degree that has a big focus on writing, critical thinking, and a multitude of not so useful things that are attached with a liberal arts degree.
I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this but I would appreciate any information you can give me. In any case, thanks for reading this!
Does the firm have an R&D department? If not, you may be able to help in their Marketing Department with RFP's... or perhaps working in the HR Department... You can also offer to be the firm's go-to guy/gal for their materials library... All of this, of course, will come to a significant indirect employee expense on the part of the firm so you better make sure the investment opportunity somehow pays off for them.
No offense, but someone like you with your major who suddenly decides to go to work for an architect just sounds desperate for a job and kind of professionally lost... I would do some soul searching and really find out what you want to do with your life.
Architecture firms generally do not hire people outside the architectuere or closely related fields of art, engineering, etc. and those with accounting, business, etc. because that is the kinds of education background that is useful to architectural business.
These general liberal arts degrees are virtually useless on their own in any occupation other than being a teacher, instructor, or professor because the private sector business isn't into such general education subjects.
You need to further the education with something more occupational oriented because a general education is useless because you don't have occupational specific skills which you need to have to perform the work that a job position would have you do. Employers do not train. They aren't a school. They expect employees to have the knowledge and skills already to do the job.
My suggestion is if you want to get into architecture and enroll in 3-year M.Arch or any other degree that people may suggest but you need something more focused and occupationally focused so you have training that can be used by an employer in private sector.
Private sector is about making money through providing goods that customers would buy and performing services clients will pay for. These general skills you have maybe useful but private sector employers aren't interested in just your transferable skills but also skills that they need employees to have. For example, if I hired you, do you know how to prepare a set of construction details in AutoCAD. Do you know how to take field measurements and document them on a coherent drawing? no... okay... do you know how to do financial accounting? The list goes on but they are focused on skill sets necessary to actually get something done in my business and others are similar and it is not unique to architecture.
This means you need to show this not just in your degree but prior work experience.
I would be hard pressed to find a position for someone like yourself at this time. Many would find that a challenge, too. It is not impossible but harder because you don't know architecture. You don't know other disciplines that others are hired or commissioned to do?
What is your knowledge in historic preservation and researching historic documents of buildings. Might be something you may want to further your education which is useful in architecture and even CRM and other private and public sector jobs.
These are ideas so take time and think about them and soul search as another poster stated.
Thanks guys!
I definitely appreciate the comments and your feedback. I am certainly in a crossroads in life just getting out of college. I had planned to further my education and work at a university level, but going to school right now really isn't an option. I started working as a paraprofessional here in Arizona with the intention of going back to school for my Arizona Teacher certification. Unfortunately, with all of this new legislation being passed, I'm considering jumping ship.
This firm extended a hand and considered meeting with me so I just wanted to do some quick research and see what you guys thought. Also, for a laugh, I do know how navigate my way through CAD because I got "certified" while in high school. I am sure that that means absolutely nothing now!
In any case, thanks for your input guys!
Actually, that CAD training would be helpful but I recommend you go to a community college with a CAD program and take a refresher course and pick up a book or so on Autocad and download a contemporary version of CAD like student version or a trial version of Autocad 2015 or some of the CAD clones like Nanocad and Draftsight. I recommend you do this and work on some stuff to refresh yourself and start at very entry level junior CAD drafter.
That would be your entry point to sell to an architect but I recommend in the meantime, do a part-time burger flipping job while you get yourself started and brush up on that. If you are lucky to get someone to hire you to do CAD work, great. Then I recommend you to progressively take some architecture course or do some study on architecture subjects.
Find a planning firm.
They'll hire anyone with a brain - and then you can slowly make your way into architecture.
I agree with Null above. A large planning firm would be much likelier to have the need for research and writing skills.
Yes, I would agree, too. In addition, some refresher courses from a community college can be helpful to update yourself on newest version of AutoCad and also learning programs like Sketchup and then learning the architectural design theory and principles such as architectural form, spatial planning of function areas (rooms or areas of activity within a room from indoor to outdoor.
It is a good place to start.
Find a job. You may not necessarily want to be an architect but there are a variety of fields to look into which may include real estate development and that maybe a direction for a degree in real estate development.
Suggestion.... look where the money is. I'm sure you're not the kind of knuckle-head that will work 80-100+ hours a week for $30K.
In this world its not what you know its who you know.
Well it is a bit of both. If you know nothing, it can be that it doesn't matter who you know, they aren't going to hire you because there is no benefit in hiring and spending money if the ROI in not there in a timely manner.
You have to have some basic knowledge that can get oneself the job then the rest may rest in who you know but also how you convince the employer to give you a chance.
bunch of debbie downers - you got a meeting, which would have been like winning the lottery 4 years ago.
go in with an open mind and be ready to learn
Assuming that the partner with whom you're meeting knows a bit about your background already, it's unlikely that they have in mind a CAD role for you at all. Sure, it's worth mentioning to them that you have basic CAD familiarity and were certified in high school. That will help them to feel that you've held long-term interests related to the field, and it may help them feel that you have some understanding of what they do. But I wouldn't suggest cramming on CAD skills now.
What you need to do is exactly what you said yourself: go in and tell him how you can help the firm. First, that will require as much research as you have time for, about them and their work and position in the field. This is much better use of your time right now than focusing on software. Next it will require asking a lot of questions and doing some careful listening in the meeting.
Writing skills are important, and often lacking in architecture firms. Ask them about their marketing materials, process for producing proposals, what additional information they'd like to get onto their website but haven't had time for or couldn't afford, what kind of research you might be able to help with, whether you can help with their social media presence, whether you could help with copy editing, etc. Bring some writing samples. Offer to work at first on a per-blog-post rate, or somesuch limited scope that will give them a better idea of your applicable capabilities, with little risk to them. Since you're likely to be a purely overhead role (not billing hours on current projects) you'll need to show awareness and understanding of how your role can help bring in work, bring awareness of the firm to their target audience, and otherwise contribute to the bottom line.
Have an answer ready for "why are you interested in this field?" It should be one that shows some understanding of the field, and some likely staying power (don't give them the idea you're sowing your always-wanted-to-be-an-architect oats before moving on to grad school or some other career.) Avoid cliche (anything about playing with legos as a child, The Fountainhead, collecting vintage drafting tools, or reading collections of turn-of-the-20th-century drafting tomes...)
Make it clear that you're willing to do some of the less glamorous tasks around the firm - you'd love to be the organizer of the product library! You'd be thrilled to run the plastic-melting binder for hundreds of drawing sets! You'd find it very exciting to learn the nuances of LEED 4.0 inside and out and work them into all 243 specification sections in the firm's template!
I work in a 70-person firm, 13 of whom did not have educational backgrounds or work histories in architecture before they started here. 5 of them are in design or production roles, though none were originally hired in those roles. CAD is of little to no importance when the firm is considering people for other roles.
So just to keep you guys updated. I had the meeting and they want me to help them with researching and planning as well as in their marketing department. They expressed that they always have a need within marketing and would like to use my abilities. They needed someone who can research histories of buildings they're working on to incorporate history into their design.
When I mentioned my history of CAD in high school. They laughed and said they don't use CAD anymore but appreciate the information.
They also expressed a desire to have someone run their social media and to look into new avenues of marketing themselves. So I guess that's something!
Thanks for your help and information guys. It definitely helped within the meeting.
They are using BIM which in reality is another kind of CAD because CAD means computer aided design or CADD (computer aided design and drafting), so they are still computer aided design.
BIM packages may be Revit or Archicad.
Good, you found an way in. update yourself on tools they have for designing but maybe stick with the area they have in mind for you and develop your knowledge and skills there and possibly over time, develop your knowledge in Revit or Archicad.
But, mentioning that you had this knowledge because there is some things from CAD that still is present in preparation of construction documents which they still have to prepare.
I would probably advise you to find a good masters degree in historic preservation or similar programs which is research oriented because that would aid in your ability to research buildings as an 'architectural historian' of buildings in the community.
Look to places like heritage or historical preservation societies in your locality and the libraries, etc. Some things you'll want to learn how to do properly is historic resource survey, national register nomination and preparing documents. Some of this may or may not apply to this particular position but will help your professional development and value as you may go from company to company. You may even be benefitted to learn about GIS as you can compile this information not only geographically but also over a timeline which can develop a picture of that information. We are now talking about history of buildings but a little bit of cultural geography which is still valuable to planning.
Congratulations - it sounds like they have a clear idea of how to use your skills, and that the meeting went well.
You'll probably be busy enough with this position that pursuing new fields of study can wait a bit. On-the-job experience is often much more valuable - and if nothing else it gives you some positive earning years and years of experience - while spending tuition and time generally has the opposite effect.
Mr. Balkins you seem to be a great fan of more study, more degrees, more certificates - but what has that taken from your experience base? In other threads you've mentioned many years of community college, associates degrees in multiple fields, etc. How many years of full time experience do you have in architecture? How many firms have you worked in? Your advice to job seekers is consistently off-kilter - I'm starting to wonder whether all of your experience is as a sole-practitioner and student?
I guess I've been right about a thing or two...
98-99% of the job positions in architecture field requires a degree or advance degrees and will continue to be that way. The suggestion is for long term value and ability to go from firm to firm. A job might be good but HR looks at education then experience. If they don't see the qualification on education then you're rejected. They typically look for education AND experience but education as pre-requisite that must be checklisted before looking at experience. Alot of HR folks are very drone-like and its competitive with an average of 200+ applicants for every single job position in this field. Lets remember, workplaces aren't training centers. Employers, in general, don't teach, they assign tasks because it is generally not profitable in our profession to do on the job training to any extensive level. Anything more than 4-8 hours for the first day is like going to be breaking the bank if they do that routinely.
I do not work as an employee because I have my building design/historic preservation consultant/etc. business and my software development business. Early on, I went into building design as a sole-proprietor because in my locality, there isn't many employers in architecture. They almost don't exist. Now, the only architecture firm that exists is Tolovana Architects (a small firm but nothing negative) in my area without going all the way to Portland, Oregon. I wouldn't want to be negative about them but pragmatic that it is not often that we see a lot of firms actively employing in the area. This is due to a small market and not many practitioners.
Can you provide a source for your assertion that there are 200+ applicants per job? This doesn't jive with the number of grads in the field vs. the number of existing jobs in firms and projected growth, per the Department of Labor. it also doesn't match the experience of any of the firms at which I've worked.
Again, the things you're saying don't seem to be based on real experience. Few architecture firms have HR people at all - whether drone-like or not. Almost no firms with fewer than 50 people have dedicated HR staff, and there are only a few hundred firms of that size nationwide. A typical architecture firm doesn't have a mindless HR person sorting through hundreds of resumes trashing those that don't meet a checklist. More typically it's an architect partner or manager selecting candidates to interview. If there is an earlier gate-keeper round of screening it's likely to be done by an office administrator or intern/designer who has been there a few years. A well-crafted cover letter can have as much to do with who gets through to the interview stage as anything in a resume.
You have your reasons for your career path, and I'm not judging. My issue is that you're giving a lot of advice about jobs with firms, when by your own admission you have little or no experience with jobs in firms. It's a similar situation with your advice about grad school admissions, schools you haven't attended, tests you haven't taken, and credentials you haven't earned. If somebody were to ask about being a "building designer" in a small market in Oregon then you'd be the expert. But for subjects in which you have no first-hand experience it would be better to refrain from contributing half-truths, assumptions, and third-hand information.
You heard of HR companies that does that for you.
None of the firms that would hire someone like the OP are going to be that small that they would not use an HR service company or have an HR staff because smaller architectural firms wouldn't hire someone who isn't in architecture track except a business administrator which would have a Business administration degree, or an office management degree or similar degree and maybe someone with marketing degree or digital graphics. Everyone else is contracted like the IT.
Firms with 25 EMPLOYEES or more will typically contract an HR service because they are cheap and a busy architect principal doesn't have the time to do the collecting applications and paring down and their interns are busy at the CAD station and it typically is cheap to have an HR company collect and run the pre-screen process which is mostly computer automated. Even if the firm collects it the resume, it is passed to the HR company to pre-screen to come back with the top 10-20 to review for interview.
After this recession, the vast majority of those that were unemployed is still unemployed in architecture plus you got the schools pumping out students at ever increasing volume. So, 200 people applying at every job being the norm is pretty standard and typical in an overly over supplied profession with so few projects and hence forth so few job positions.
People in pre-screening phase doesn't really look at cover letter. They skim the resume or have a computer scan the stuff.
You have to have a degree in the subject matter of the job position in most architectural employment. It is stated in the job posting and those in pre-screen only lets those whose application explicitly meets all the stated requirements in the job posting. It is because no one in that positions wants to explain why they let someone who didn't have all the requirements through.
It's basically the way this stuff is done and with the high over supply of applicants in architecture what is the incentive of considering someone without all the requirements for a position. The only time you see an architecture employer take an exception is if there is a lack of response for a job posting.
I highly doubt that is happening anytime soon.
Cover letters aren't even looked at until you get the number of applications to look at down to under 25. That way, you have 2 minutes to look at the applicants file because most employers that will be looking at who to interview will not spend more than an hour on this.
If your firm is so small and is almost a no name outside the local community, you probably aren't hiring and usually they look to contract employment. If they did employ, they would not have to pre-screen because their job postings are local and very limited attention hence small response of applicants. That is if they post job postings.
In which case, it is more about friendship and knowing a friend in the field that is unemployed and a phone call.
In 25+ years in architecture firms, ranging from 2 to 200 people, I've never once encountered an architecture firm that outsources to an HR company. Architecture firms don't tend to operate that way. They take a more personal, hand-picked approach to hiring. I would agree that cover letters are important. They're where we get a sense of who the person is and what they can do for us. If somebody comes across well in what they tell us about themselves, what they can do, and why they want to do it, it isn't essential that they meet every criterion in our ad. What I care about re education isn't so much the NAAB degree but evidence of a clear direction and follow through.
To the OP: congrats on getting a foot in the door. it sounds as though you've made a favorable impression.
Aluminate,
Okay. There is several firms out there so okay. Fair enough. Sure, some firms however outsource parts of the HR process because they can't spend the time to sift through personally over hundreds of apps for a single position they may have open. It is hand picking when they get the large list of people cut down to a smaller list. Some firms have a person who's role includes HR stuff.
I'm glad that you take a more personal approach to hiring. I don't disagree that cover letters are important. I'm glad the OP has gotten a foot in the door and made a favorable impression. My suggestion for him in the long term is further educational development which can increase likelihood for future job positions.
In my life it is a matter of survival and as for direction, I may be less concerned about specific directions as I need to adapt to changes. A question I have at times is why would I be that important to an established firm. What can I provide to a firm. As a sole-proprietor, I operate on my own accord so it can often be a challenge to sell what I can be of value to someone else.The fact I work to my own accord, I tend not to work as an employee to others. One of the things that make working as an intern in a typical manner seem like a royally big step back from being a sole-proprietorship and restrictive on creative freedom then again it might not always be that bad as clients can be just as bad or worse.
@Sponaneous
Can you provide a source for your assertion that there are 200+ applicants per job?
When I was looking for a job a year and a half ago many positions had 100-300 applicants. A number of places told me this, including the place I work for now. A lot of spots never get publicly opened though, so that is a different story.
The market is much better now though. I know our summer internship applications were a third of what they were last year.
@ Richard
smaller architectural firms wouldn't hire someone who isn't in architecture track except a business administrator
Most research centered firms are small, so I don’t think this is entirely true.
@Aluminate
I worked for a consulting firm that had an HR service, I also had two interviews (out of 12) the last time I was looking for a job that were with HR services. So it happens. It feels really strange though, because the interviews are completely different with them than with designers. People who work in HR at firms are typically much better.
nate, I think such firms are medium size. As in 25-50. Maybe not the 1000+ person firms but big enough to hire someone with a degree not in architecture or a closely related degree such as interior design or historic preservation. If the firm gets smaller than 25, the person needs to also have an architecture related education so they can be assigned them to do drafting and other work that needs to be done within architecture because that is what they'll be focusing us.
My firm employs many non-architects in marketing, business development, and ideation. If you want a job, start going to architecture events, join the AIA, Architecture for Humanity, or other public-interest design organizations. Go to lectures, talks, final reviews, meet people and learn about the industry and the professionals in your area. You will never do architectural design without a degree or many years of training into it, but you will have a chance to work with the built environment.
@richard
Most really intensive research firms are less than ten people, because the model doesn't support larger groups. It's true that a typical architecture firm under 25 people probably wouldn't hire the OP, but research based ones might. Of course most of the people who run these firms are in academia and thus hire people out of academia, so that would be a different hurdle getting into that circle.
Good point natematt.
archanonymous,
In my case, it might be a little different than the OP. Then my background inside and outside of the architecture field would be a tad different than the OP at the moment.
Hello all,
I am currently a Paralegal and I want to transition into the world of architecture. I however am deep with degrees and certifications that cater to the legal world. I have a BS in Justice Studies from Northeastern Illinois University and a Post Graduate Litigation Practice Certificate in Paralegal Studies from Loyola university Chicago. What positions can I attain with my degrees at an architectural firm while learning and growing and eventually going back to school for an architectural degree? Thanks for the help in advance,
thanks much.
-Tanya
What do any of those pieces of paper have that's related to construction? Only avenue I see is contract negotiation, but even there, hard to see anyone needing legal staff just for that.
Mother T was a great scam artist.
you'd have better luck in a law firm specializing in construction law. I know at least on architect turned lawyer. The only lawyer I know who wanted to become an architect gave up once he realized how time consuming the process is. - 5 to 6 years min.
The good news is that most of the country is hopping in right now and anyone should be able to get a job, even if that takes leaving astoria.
Thank you, I am very much aware of the time, however i would like to get my foot in the door somehow, and see where it takes me. I only referenced my history to see whether there are any options for transition. I will examine the construction law options we well,
thanks much
-Tanya
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