For what it is worth, here are my two cents.

It really depends on what you want out of life. Im in the same boat at the moment, minus the "dream school". After a lot of thought, I would say that you need to really sit down and think about it for a bit. There is no program in the world that is going to be able to teach you everything you need to know about architecture over the course of 3 years. Don't over burden yourself with huge amounts of debt because that can be a powerful limitation on your future endeavors. However, if [insert school name here] offers something vastly different and superior to what you can get at your local state school, then so be it. You are going to be a graduate student....and every graduate program tailors itself to a certain set of beliefs and education style. Pick the one that best suits you, but still within a reasonable price range. Hope this helps.

Your undergraduate is in economics...?

1. Can you feasibly afford University of Oregon without financial aid? (i.e., assume something like, $36k/year debt for the next 3.5 years or however much it costs, include interest and repayment plans on loan.)

If yes, pursue your dream.

If not feasible, but affordable with big loan, then 2. What are your career path goals, work ethic like and how badly do you want to go to University of Oregon? And the whole, like, is this program significantly better. Keep in mind - this means badly enough to go into significant debt without guarantee that you'll enjoy the work.

If badly enough, go pursue your dream.

If not, then why bother? In-state tuition is significantly cheaper & less risky. And this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think going into debilitating debt is a bad idea in general.

Run a risk-benefit analysis on your situation. Talk to your parents. See if they can get you a loan/help. Take an extra year, stay at home & save money. Obvs if you get scholarship/T.A. assistantship or a part time job or even a summer job, going to U of Oregon is more feasible. Do some budgeting.

Try to visit Oregon's open house, and talk to professors and students about Ta possibilities , and scholarships,   maybe they can alleviate some costs. I think that attending a different school for grad school is always the better option. New place, new culture, new weather, wet and rainy most of the time .  

This is all moot until you determine how much it will actually cost you. If your dreams are going to put you 100k in debt, then you're going to realize at some point they were not dreams...

If you go 45k into debt instead of 25k at the other school... eh, dealers choice.

You should follow your dreams, but with something like this it has got to be within reason.

natematt - so you think that it isn't even really worth thinking about until I know the cost of each one? I think that is a fair assessment.

I agree with all of you, which makes this hard. Bvega - you mentioned that an important factor to whether it is worth choosing the out of state school over Arizona State is if it stands out as having a substantially different program. So my question to all of you is this:

I don't know much about reputations of schools other than the Ivy's other than the limited information I can gather through the Design Intelligence rankings. Do Arizona State and University of Oregon have similar reputations, or does one hold a substantial advantage over the other?

** My father went to University of Oregon for landscape architecture, and I have visited the school many times. I've been a Duck fan forever and I loved the program when I toured the architecture department some years ago. That is why it is my dream school. **

I’m not saying it’s not worth thinking about, I am saying find some information!
 

10 min of googling and it looks like UoO would cost you around 20k/year ignoring cost of living, and AS would be 16k/year without living. Not really that big of a difference…  Of course that means you’ll probably pay another 12k/year on living expenses either way.

So my uneducated total cost estimate is around 84k and 96k for AS and UoO respectively. Not that big of a difference really, but neither are particularly affordable if you plan to pay off your own debts…  Do you have debt from undergrad?

On another note, based on almost as brief of research, UoO seems like a better program. Though to be clear, this means pretty much nothing from a money making standpoint, because you’ll make about the same as anyone coming out of any school with a similar skill level.

The cost of living in Oregon is cheap, like Nate said the tuition for out of state is around 24k , not too bad.  I have some friends there that got ta's there after their first year . Most people bike there , so no need to waste on gas. 

Well, I have 0 debt in undergrad. My parents could most likely help a little bit, but it would mostly be me covering it. Tuition at ASU is looking like about $11,000 while tuition at Oregon is about $25k. I live away from home at ASU, so I presume that costs would be similarish between here and there. The only thing is that I live with my brother at ASU so that keeps costs a bit lower. My brother would likely move up to Oregon with me in a year or so, but he has to finish his degree at ASU first.

First year M.Arch students seem to not be able to get TA fellowships, so that might help me in my second year. I'm currently doing some searches for scholarship money and thinking about making a gofundme page. I have actually applied, gotten into, and didn't attend Oregon 3 times now. In undergrad I tried to transfer a few times but I just couldn't get the funds. But I figure graduate school is my last hoo-rah really. So I'm trying to do all I can to find ways to knock the cost down.

The Calculator on ASU's site indicates there is a pretty hefty program fee, hence the 16k I quoted.

Yeah I'm going to use the calculators then to see what I come up with. Hefty program fee doesn't sound too pleasant though. I go to ASU now so a change of scenery wouldn't be that terrible.

Okay, so what I came up with in the calculators is $25,635 for Oregon and $16,153 for ASU. That's less than a $10,000 difference per year. That really isn't that big I guess when you think about it. I am not counting on getting much aid from the schools though. I've heard that Arch students don't tend to get lots of grants and junk the way a Biology student might.

Not sure if it's mean mentioned as I didn't read all the comments, but have you considered the possibility of doing your M.Arch in-state and then doing an M.Arch II at Oregon? Makes more sense to go to your dream school and pay all that extra money to study on a course focused entirely on your own interests for a year after you've figured out those interests on the 3 year M.Arch...
 

I wasn't really planning on doing an M.Arch II, at least not for a considerable amount of time. I am already 24 and haven't started my M.Arch I so I feel like I'd want to try and start my career after I finish.

I don't mean to bump this, but I got my admission from Oregon and ASU now, and I imagine U of Arizona too (I'm from Tucson). From a career standpoint, I want to work on the west coast somewhere - whether it be in the valley in Phoenix or maybe up on the Oregon coast or Seattle or whatever. Which of these schools has the best reputation on the west coast?

I know that U of Arizona isn't held in high regards for graduate school, so I'm guessing it is either ASU or Oregon. ASU I would get instate tuition which comes out to like 16500/year and Oregon would be 25000/year. I'd most likely need some small loans to afford Oregon. I have a decent job up at ASU already, so if I went to Oregon I'd need to find something on the quick. But realistically, I want to be in the best program for me that also has the best reputation where I want to be - which is the west coast. Any thoughts?

Yeah that is kind of what I figured. ASU is definitely better than U of Arizona so I think UA is basically out of the question. Do you think that Oregon's reputation in the west is enough better than ASU to make it worth some small loans? Like probably less than 10,000/year in loans...

This choice between ASU and UOregon is super hard because Oregon is my dream school and a better program as far as I can tell. I like everything I hear and read about it. But my brother (that I live with) is at ASU which makes things easy, and my family is a lot closer to ASU than to Oregon. Not to mention the cost of ASU vs Oregon. I want to go to Oregon and find a way to afford it, but I just want to feel like the extra hassle of going there is worth the effort in the end. I don't want to run miles and miles just to end up on a hill with grass the same shade as the hill I just left.

You make very solid points. Thank you for your input. It's true - just imagining going to Oregon really excites me. I feel like that will give me so much more motivation to try and do my best. I used to go to UA for undergrad before I transferred up to ASU. And it was my last choice school out of high school and honestly, it was dismal. Just the fact that it wasn't the school I wanted to be at made it so hard to stay motivated. ASU was my second choice school (behind Oregon) and transferring up here made all the difference. I met new people, solidified a major/plan for the future, got an internship, and have gained some independence. So I can only imagine that going to Oregon would be like an even stronger version of that feeling.

Now, while I go to UOregon, I NEED to find a job to help pay for school. So I'm wondering if anyone here that has gone to Oregon knows if it's as terrible to find a job there as I keep hearing it is? I know Oregon's economy isn't in the best shape, but I'll have a bachelor's degree in economics so I hope that will help me find at least something there.

That doesn't sound so bad. I don't think first year M.Arch 3+ students can get much though. Not until we have the experience of all the first studio classes or whatever. But what about Eugene, OR in particular. It's a small place in a state with an economy that isn't exactly thriving. Is it super hard to find part time work there to help pay for school?

So the decision is being made harder as I was offered a small scholarship to ASU. But that only makes the cost differential between ASU and Oregon even higher. I don't know how long it is until school release information about scholarships, so I'm still holding out that maybe Oregon will still come through with something.

Okay, this is the final bump. Results are in from the schools I realistically would even choose to go to. They are as follows:

University of Oregon: In; no scholarships

Arizona State University: In; $2,000 scholarship (I don't know if it is per year or semester yet)

University of Arizona: In; $7,000/year scholarship

Now, there are some pros and cons of each of these schools too...

University of Oregon: Pros - best program of the ones I applied, dream school, I like the curriculum the most. Cons - most expensive (out of state) and far from my family, would need loans.

Arizona State University: Pros - middle program, easy transition since I already go there, I live cheaply with my brother, no loans. Cons - not oregon, might not look as good to have same grad and undergrad program.

University of Arizona: Pros - cheapest, most scholarship, could live at home. Cons - least favorite school, lowest quality program, kind of sick of Tucson.

My goal here is to be in the best program possible and be in a good position to be hired by firms on the west coast. I don't want to be in super debt unless it is absolutely worth it to do so (Oregon being that much better or worth my time than the other programs). Any thoughts? This is a super hard decision for me because it's hard to find a good measurement for how respected these schools are. DI 2014 rankings has ASU as #4 best in the west, but then in 2015 it isn't even ranked. I know these rankings aren't the greatest, but I'd like to know from professionals and other students who are further along whether it is worth the extra cost for Oregon or whether ASU is best for me.

**I kinda figure still that UA is probably last on the totem pole here.

Congrats on all of your acceptances! I don't know enough about the Arizona schools to offer any advice- I was just wondering when you received info from Oregon about funding? I haven't heard from them since their initial acceptance several weeks ago. Thanks!

Reezy - I haven't heard anything saying whether I received funding or not, but I did get the admissions packet which included nothing about any scholarships offered. The other programs included letters with their admissions information, so I just assumed I got nothing for Oregon.

Tell us how much debt you will have at the end of each program and we can make an informed opinion.

Oregon has a great program, and there are lots of opportunities to teach in the architecture department, or if you have an undergrad in something else, teach in another department, which would cover tuition + a stipend. I recommend sending an email to any professors you admire at the schools and see what kind of research they do more specifically and if they need help. Most professors have some amount of funding and love student help. 

Trail.runner - how exactly do you approach the professors about that? Would I just send emails now like "hey, I see that you are doing research in this and I'm interested in it... any opportunities?" This is all new to me.

Natematt - by debt do you mean total cost of the programs over the course of my time there, or do you mean how much money I will have taken out in loans over the course of the time there?

Well no matter, I'll include both.

Cost/Loan debt: Total cost to me over the course of 3 years in the program + living expenses / loans taken out.

Oregon - $135,000 / $30,000 loans (minimum)

ASU - $92,000 / no loans taken out

UA - $66,000 / no loans taken out

What I mean is debt. Which is money you owe someone, in this case it probably relates to loans.

So to be clear, where is the other 105k for Oregon coming from?  If you're spending your own money/family's money then that is a different judgment call that you have to make.

As for the debt. 30k isn't that bad, but 0k is great.  A rule of thumb a lot of people like to throw around is that you shouldn't accumulate more debt in school than your entry salary, which will probably be 35-45k depending on location. 

The difference is largely personal. If your objective is to get a job and a paycheck then they are all pretty much the same, but you're probably in the wrong profession. If you want to be a better designer, then go to the best one. Admittedly if you are a better designer you'll probably have a little more opportunity and possibly make a little more money, but the difference will be marginal.

me... I would do UoO.


 

Well, the remaining $100k of Oregon would be coming from me working and maybe a small contribution from my parents. My parents' contribution is going to be the same no matter which school I choose, so the rest will be made up by me working. At Oregon, I'll have to work more or less full time to make up for the different cost of attending. I also don't have a job there yet, while I do have one at ASU.

I understand architecture isn't for big salaries, but that's fine. I've just found through my current job that I love to design things and solve problems through the trial and error of design. I wish to go to school to be a better designer, with the intention of getting a more interesting job someplace on the west coast.

I have pretty much decided against UA since it is really not in the same league as the other two I don't think - and I can attend ASU while not accumulating any debt. So considering the difference in debt and the amount I'd have to work to attend Oregon, do you still think it is worth it?

$30,000 in loans isn't a lot. Yeah, the graduate interest rate is 6.9% and starts on day one but if you really want to study where you feel you want to be both physically and mentally, then just consider it a privilege tax (that should be deductible each year). Hard to endure but not the worst amount you can have.

A lot of people have debt. A lot of people have mortgages and live on credit month to month no matter their income bracket. They're mostly fine and although the majority are not financially safe in good investment opinions, they manage to get by. But you shouldn't expect to recoup $100,000 just by working through school. Perhaps that $30,000 can be cut in half but don't squander the whole education experience just to end up working full-time and then some elsewhere.

It is not wise to work full-time during your M.Arch. Architectural education requires a tremendous amount of time and effort to hone and improve your skills, especially without a design background. Your work will suffer if you're working 40 hours per week. In the end, whatever money you saved will not show up in your portfolio. 

I would go to ASU since it is much cheaper and getting a part-time gig is a possibility once you get your bearings. Summer internships would also help defray costs. The difference between the two schools in quality is negligible. I don't think you'll be penalized for going to the same school since you majored in a completely different subject for undergrad.

Follow the money.

I am pretty sceptical of someone working fulltime during their MArch, even if they have a background in architecture. 20hrs/week max, and your life will consist of nothing else. There is never enough time just for school, even if you don't work at all.

With no background, I don't see that happening. Not without  very poor academic performance.

This is my opinion for any school.

I change my vote to ASU, and I think you're going to need to take out a loan there too. Flatroof is right, the quality difference doesn't seem like that big of a thing, especially compared to the money.
 

I agree, I don't see how you'd be able to really work any significant amount of time during the school year.  

I did my undergrad at Oregon, and many of my friends were grad students that had GTF positions within the A&AA.  I'm not sure about other universities, but it's a great option at Oregon.  In fact, the GTF's were unionized, and had healthcare available.  I'm not sure if that's still the case or not though.  

Since debt seems to be your main hesitation, have you thought about moving to Oregon, live there for a year, and gain residency?  You're still young.  I doubt a year delay would be much of a setback.  It could save you around $30k over 3 years.  Just a thought.

Yeah I'm beginning to agree with you guys about ASU. I think working 40 hours a week is ridiculous and not possible without hurting my classes. But as for being young, I'm almost 25 so I don't really want to wait another year. Especially when the education will be almost the same as ASU anyways. I was considering moving up there and waiting a year, but I feel like I'd rather start grad school sooner than later.

The people at Oregon told me the GTF positions are pretty competitive. I am also not qualified for any of the architecture ones yet. I feel like as a whole, there are so many 'ifs' with Oregon. I could do it IF I can find a job, IF I can find a cheaper place to live than the average, IF they give me some kind of aid, IF I take out a loan, IF IF IF... I just worry that if none of those things pan out, I could be in a rough situation up there. Oregon is my dream school, but unless they offer me a heft financial aid package, I just can't see it happening. =/

I think there is a consensus though that U of A isn't the best option lol.

The reality of architecture school is that if you want to be successful, you simply won't have the time to work (full or part time).  You might be able to pull it off the first couple of terms, but after that, no way.  In my experience, outside of the GTF's (part time job), I knew of one person working part time at the bookstore.  But, that was it.  The rest of us, simply spent all of our time in studio, seminars, class, and class related labs.  It is an all consuming mistress, that becomes your life, and you'll love it and hate it all at the same time.  

In the end, if you don't go to the school that you really had your heart set on, you'd always regret it.  And, compared to Ivy League, and private schools, Oregon is cheap.  If it were me, and debt was my biggest concern, waiting a year wouldn't be a big deal.  It seems like you need to decide what sacrifice you're more willing to take.  The time, or the debt.  

I feel like an Ivy or something would be worth the expense of loans and whatnot. Oregon is good and is my dream school, but I don't know if it is worth all the effort to sacrifice a year or to take out huge loans. I heard that Oregon allows you to take 8 credits per term while establishing a domicile - do you think I would be allowed to take a slow first year at Oregon while establishing a domicile?

Although I just thought about it now, but deferring enrollment a year and living there to get in state tuition might be kinda interesting because I can get my bearings and get used to the environment. But that would make my degree take 4 years essentially, which kind of deters me.

I was talking to a friend and she said that she has $14k a year in loans just for undergrad and that it's pretty normal and not a big thing. But at the same time, she is intending on going to med school, so she will easily cover all that assuming she gets in.

I feel like an Ivy or something would be worth the expense of loans and whatnot

I feel like this is a common sentiment, but the reality is that a grad from Harvard makes pretty much the same about of money as a grad from ASU when in the same context. 

Would you learn more? Probably, but for 66k a year it's not even remotely proportional or worth it to someone who will pay largely/entirely with loans.

No architecture education is worth 80k in debt, that alone 200k+.

I'm making my budget for Oregon and working on making it more detailed and whatnot. I'm including working for 25 hours a week at minimum wage. Therefore, if I get a slightly better job with higher wage, that is just gravy. I think I can handle 25 hours a week. I've worked basically full time my entire undergraduate career so it isn't like a huge change for me. It's still looking like 20,000 in loans will be necessary every school year. So 60,000 in total debt.

At this point, it'd really be your decision. If the debt is acceptable, then just go ahead and see what else you can budget and sacrifice. My concern is that you'd be working too much and not devoting enough time to actually learn anything. A lot of learning happens outside classes and your workload might cut into that. Such an experience wouldn't matter to say a 40-year-old but you sound young and it could result in a less than ideal social scene.

Everyone wonders if the rising cost of education is worth it in the return. In most cases, no. Even for med school, the changing profession will likely deter those solely out to earn money. unless they specialize and hedge rather expensive risks to be the elite few. Why do some people get paid a lot? Because they have a skill or quality that is worth it. It's not something you can teach or else we'd have $250,000 per year colleges and a long list of applicants trying to get that easy methodical money.

Student loan debt shouldn't be considered "normal". It's expected now due to the uncontrolled costs but the normal ought to be free or a paltry sum that someone can easily work off each year or through the summer. The loans set no minimum cost and I don't think all these young people sold the same naive dreams of riches beyond actually understand reality versus skewed expectations. I digress.

I guess what it comes down to is that I can find ways I think to somehow afford Oregon, but I look back at ASU and how it's better in almost every way in terms of affordability and stress and convenience. I mean, the road less travel by can be the best one, but I don't know if that is necessarily true in this situation. Tons of debt after graduating doesn't sound ideal to me, but being all set to work in the northwest might make it worth it, as I've grown up in the desert all my life and like the idea of a change.

I guess another issue I have is that I can find lots of information about Oregon and what makes its program good - and I like what I hear. They push hand drawing in the first year, they have strong sustainability focus, and their program is still fairly traditional in structure and the classes seem varied, with more history classes than ASU has in their plan. So I guess when I compare it to ASU, it looks much more appealing to me. I don't know what ASU's strengths are I guess - other than its affordability for me.

There's no reason you couldn't focus your graduate studies on sustainability at any school. Graduate school is more self-directed and even if the faculty is not the top-ranked, they can still help you out towards a goal. Just being in a good program means little if there is no drive to b more than another typical student only leveraging institutional prestige.

If you're going to worry about debt and work yourself to points of mental collapse, avoid that path. Put the time towards learning on your own instead of relying on a curriculum that sounds nice. Need history? Take some outside courses. Explore other disciplines. These two programs probably don't differ much on a whole and in the long run, it's how much effort you can put in that will be the deciding factor for success. Yeah, it sucks to be in one place forever but you do have the ability to move after school--a new start anywhere without debt to carry. Might not be as easy to land a gig but that's too far to say right now.