Carerra, people work for their families. This is why they tolerate the stench of their bosses and put up with so much bs not because they like working for you. single people are harder to enslave. so, yeah in that regard families affect business
Lol... not that long ago, you didn't take your kid to the doctor unless that dirty dish towel couldn't stop the bleeding. Sports had parents as coaches and met at the local park; not 800 miles away in week long tournaments. Once upon a time normally one person was the bread winner and the other dealt with the kids or their part time job. Once upon a time, business's defined 'casual' a lot different; no jacket or tie. Once upon a time, 'team building' was done around the coffee pot while it brewed or with a drink at the pub on your way home. Once upon a time, your 'special needs' kid actually did have a severe handicap that really did need a lot of support from the parents (versus just emotional issues you have to run home to take care of because you bought the wrong kind of pop-tart and their world is ending). Once upon a time, there were no school 'late starts' or 'teacher planning days'. Once upon a time, the kids walked home from school and played in the neighborhood until the sun went down while the parents worked; unsupervised, and no f'n helmet. Once upon a time you got a tetanus shot because you did actually step on nails, cut yourself on barbed wire, and did stuff that was dangerous without your parents hovering making sure you are safe. Now it's all changed.
Not sure if that's good or bad, but it does change what a 'good parent' is, thus changes your work habits to avoid being a 'bad parent'. How dare that evil boss not understand you need a week to go with little Timmy to football camp and already used up all your vacation time already because Suzy got on the top soccer team and they went to regionals this year? How dare they not understand Billy has a art showing today and you have to be there instead of that meeting. Awful bosses and nothing to do with the times we live in at all....
well as a kid I used to play with a homemade pipe cannon in my yard and play in nyc drainage pipes....now dont even let my 11 year old play in the street...so I agree in theory but became one of those overprotective parents that I used to make fun of.
but....people work longer hours nowadays and 2 invomes is often required just to survive...
what does tetanus or soccer have to do with maternity leave? is this one of those false-equivalencies intended to change the mindset of your supposed audience, so they're thinking of people spoiling their children, rather than the actual topic of this post, which is taking off work when you're having a baby?
or did babies pop out in mid puberty, ready to get a job back in your day? you didn't need to go to the hospital to give birth back then, you just squatted in the kitchen (where women belonged)?
or did i just get lost in the thread and i can't tell which post you're replying to?
ahhhh rich people problems.... if you don't think your rich take a look around next time your on a job site or a fast food restaurant or anywhere else people are working for close to minimum wage. Those people are rich compared to much of the world.
Government should pay for time off after child birth just like unemployment (according to Donna's info they do it in china for F@#@s sake)
Of course government should take over medical care too, before we are all paying half of our wages for medical insurance. Problem is the places where all these services are common the tax rate is high and america would loose their minds if we raised the tax rate to support these services. Even if the reality was we were paying out the same rate in medical insurance anyway the masses would revolt.
what does tetanus or soccer have to do with maternity leave?
Nothing. The original poster asked about women firms, then stated a bunch of parent/family type things. I'd guess that would because she thinks more traditionally as though she, the woman, would need to handle the family and a career. But it's not just a female in the workplace issue anymore... that was so '90's 'super-mom' thinking. Now Dad's are integrated (or coerced depending on perspective) into that mix. So finding a firm that understands family dynamics is important.
And to give you an example, this week the kids have done 3 dentist appointments, one doctor visit (another being scheduled hopefully tomorrow), an audiologist tomorrow, a school meeting, going home at lunch to let out the dog and feed our sick child (who is now old enough to be home alone all day) and we have one child open enrolled so we need to drop off and pick up every single day. My wife and I juggle who's doing what and recruit the grandparents as a taxi service a couple times a week.
I guess one advantage it brings to the workplace; Time management in a team environment. :P
Did a rundown on Donna’s graph based on personal tax rates:
Finland – 51%/54 Days
Portugal – 56.5%/20 Days
Spain – 52%/15 Days
Australia – 45%/2 Weeks
Denmark – 55.6%/2 Weeks
United Kingdom – 45%/2 Weeks
United States – 35%/0 Days
Almost proportional. The idea that these perceived benefits come from thin air is delusional. With 155,000,000 Americans working/paying taxes and 4,000,000 births per year that means that we are proposing that 50% of the population pay for something only 1% of the population need.
BTW Curt, I wasn’t “in a position to buy a school” I bought that school with nothing down and made payments from the profits of the school over 5 years (no bank). We found ways to have a family and make it work - on our own.
You forgot to include state and local taxes, FICA, property tax, sales tax, user fees, etc. Aside from that many of countries on your list provide a slew of public benefits not available here and higher quality of services.
Miles - You miss the point which is you can have it but you have to pay for it, somehow. We can’t afford to pay 51% in taxes regardless of services…we’ve screwed ourselves with lifestyle expectations. In Finland they pay 51% in personal tax and have a myriad of services, but the average new home in Finland is 880 SF. In the US the average is 2,204 SF. The services are needed but what Americans spend money on has left the gate.
More bullshit. They print money and hand it to the banks for them to play with while cutting social services. "Economics" is an artificial and thoroughly bogus construct used to enslave the masses and reward the few.
Miles, missed it again. What are the chances that expanded social service will be paid from the 1%? The answer is zero. What are the chances that expanded social services will be paid by redirecting defense or other wasteful spending? Answer is zero. The die is cast and nothing short of a revolution will turn it around. The 1% doesn’t need the masses anymore as witnesses by all the screw turning going on. If services are added for the masses the masses are going to pay for it – and they can’t.
Carrera, I didn't miss or imply anything. I simply stated that economics are used to enslave the masses.
FYI the 1% needs the masses for trickle up. Not the way economists have described it but as the reverse of trickle down: taking a little from everyone all the time.
Trickle down is of course the idea is that if you feed a pig enough, a few scraps will pass through undigested for the rats to eat.
The masses are enslaved through always-increasing taxation, resulting in more and more government dependency.
Lol... I see it in reverse. The masses demand stuff; potholes filled, roads widened so their commute is quicker, protections against scams or unsafe products that some 'expert' said is ok (Prescriptions, UL certified, licensed professionals, etc.), clean and safe water and power, standards, laws and enforcement, clean air, and all those other things you can't acquire on your own or lack the knowledge to judge or deem 'fit and safe' or really anyway to dictate like outlets using the same current and volts.
So the masses want to be protected and are untrusting without protections. So there are libraries of regulations insuring you those protections so you don't have to fear or worry about it. Whether that is depositing a paycheck and knowing it's yours, or hopping in a car and knowing how everyone else is going to be on the road so there's not chaos... You need a huge entity behind that with the power to enforce what people are afraid of and have the authority and power to make it happen.... Hence the government. More fear = more regulations and government growth. Fear is good for government stimulation and higher taxes.
^^ Speaking of LOL.... your's a weird sort of fence-straddling viewpoint. Unlike you, I definitely don't see taxation as the result of a benevolent government striving to accommodate the desires of the helpless masses. Yes, there is always some of what you describe, but your summation is well off of the fact of the matter.
Force and money are great tools for a government. Accommodation is PR.
I am a woman and I work in architecture. I have heard the horror stories but I've also worked for firms that supported women and men surrounding their parental leave after or before the birth of their child. People have kids, this is not an earth shattering new occurrence. My office is disproportionately male and many have young families. The parents in my office all deal with sick kid days, school delays/cancellations, doctors appointments etc regardless of their gender. But you know what - I, as a childless person, deal with getting sick, going to the doctor, having to wait for the plumber at home during work hours etc. If your boss or coworkers can't handle the fact that life happens it probably means you don't work in a very healthy environment. My sense is if you're looking for places that are supportive to women, you need to see if the firm is supportive of ALL it's employees regardless of gender, age, experience level etc. It's disappointing this thread has disintegrated to the state it is in right now. I for one would really like to know if people out there work in firms with policies that function well, treat people equitably, and generally make your working life better just like the original poster requested. In my opinion this whole thing should be filed under "This is Why We Can't Have Nice Things".
Great post, lmnop! I've always said, workplace policies that benefit women also benefit families. They benefit *humans*, full stop.
Seriously, if anyone gets an interview, ask to take a walk past the conference room and into the drafting space to get a sense of the environment. Does everyone look hollow-eyed and stressed out, CADding with their headphones on and a look of exhaustion and fear? You don't want to work there!
I work for a huge firm, and there is not only maternity leave here, but also paternity leave. Although neither are paid by the firm, I'm fortunate enough to work in a state that has short-term disability that covers some of the time off.
Many of our most effective people are young-ish parents. One thing I've noticed is that it seems like the mom crowd skews heavily towards project management as opposed to design, but I'm unclear whether this is something they're pushed into or just a coincidence of choice. I do know several moms who work odd schedules—usually coming into the office very early and leaving early (often working from home for a few more hours after the kids are in bed), sometimes working from home a day a week—and I can't see that they're penalized for it. In fact, I like working with them because their insistence on humane working hours keeps things saner for the whole team. Many are appointed staff (associate, senior associate) and in various leadership positions in the firm, though we have very few female principals. I'm hopeful that's just a matter of legacy, and once people my age have enough experience to be qualified that will become more balanced.
I don't even know what to say about what this thread has degenerated into, except that some people are incredibly short-sighted.
@DeTwan: I have started this post and I am a proud South-American. So, before you speak of Uruguay, *please* go visit, or at least learn something about it. At the very least, for Eladio Dieste's sake. Your comments are ridiculous and offensive in many levels.
@DonnaSink: Thank you so much for your comments. I am an avid listener of Archinect Sessions and really appreciate having your opinion on this. I also appreciated Ken's comment on Sessions #16 - it IS a real issue, and it SHOULD be debated more often.
-I agree with the comment above with respect to focus on finding a firm that already has women in the top positions in the firm.
-I would look for companies that sponsor kids' sports teams and firms where the current mothers/fathers who work in the firm leave early to attend games/events. Those will likely all be family focused environments.
-Look at companies that hire on consultants because that way, you could easily become a consultant at that point in your life.
-The small company that you are in now likely doesn't treat you like a number. I would imagine that smaller companies like the one that you are currently working in will be more understanding when that period of your life comes.
Just remember, a firm is not stupid, they will pay attention to the new diamond ring and start counting the days until the wedding and after the wedding.... If you are lucky you will land in a firm that won't have a problem with it.
-I would honestly say that in about 3:10 of the interviews that I have had in the past few years, they have asked me if I was: married, if I planned to have kids and what I would do during that time. Illegal I know, but that's our industry!
-The sad thing is that you will never know how many jobs you might get passed on, who get a feel for your age based off when you graduated university on your resume and don't even invite you in for an interview because you are a pregnancy flight risk.
Best Firms for Women
I was fired only once in my life so far, for working from home on a Saturday afternoon.
I honestly think today that families affect business more than businesses affect families
BS
My kid in daycare was outside at Independence Hall Park 1-2 times a day, in decent weather, at least.
Carerra, people work for their families. This is why they tolerate the stench of their bosses and put up with so much bs not because they like working for you. single people are harder to enslave. so, yeah in that regard families affect business
Lol... not that long ago, you didn't take your kid to the doctor unless that dirty dish towel couldn't stop the bleeding. Sports had parents as coaches and met at the local park; not 800 miles away in week long tournaments. Once upon a time normally one person was the bread winner and the other dealt with the kids or their part time job. Once upon a time, business's defined 'casual' a lot different; no jacket or tie. Once upon a time, 'team building' was done around the coffee pot while it brewed or with a drink at the pub on your way home. Once upon a time, your 'special needs' kid actually did have a severe handicap that really did need a lot of support from the parents (versus just emotional issues you have to run home to take care of because you bought the wrong kind of pop-tart and their world is ending). Once upon a time, there were no school 'late starts' or 'teacher planning days'. Once upon a time, the kids walked home from school and played in the neighborhood until the sun went down while the parents worked; unsupervised, and no f'n helmet. Once upon a time you got a tetanus shot because you did actually step on nails, cut yourself on barbed wire, and did stuff that was dangerous without your parents hovering making sure you are safe. Now it's all changed.
Not sure if that's good or bad, but it does change what a 'good parent' is, thus changes your work habits to avoid being a 'bad parent'. How dare that evil boss not understand you need a week to go with little Timmy to football camp and already used up all your vacation time already because Suzy got on the top soccer team and they went to regionals this year? How dare they not understand Billy has a art showing today and you have to be there instead of that meeting. Awful bosses and nothing to do with the times we live in at all....
for some of you, your generational drawers are showing, pull up your pants, or tighten those suspenders. yeezus.
well as a kid I used to play with a homemade pipe cannon in my yard and play in nyc drainage pipes....now dont even let my 11 year old play in the street...so I agree in theory but became one of those overprotective parents that I used to make fun of.
but....people work longer hours nowadays and 2 invomes is often required just to survive...
Mightyaa, that was really good.... with demands expanding on both fronts it seems to be an impossible combination.
instead of maternity or paternity leave how about parental leave? huge supporter, personally.
also, this "pull up your pants, or tighten those suspenders" heh.
what does tetanus or soccer have to do with maternity leave? is this one of those false-equivalencies intended to change the mindset of your supposed audience, so they're thinking of people spoiling their children, rather than the actual topic of this post, which is taking off work when you're having a baby?
or did babies pop out in mid puberty, ready to get a job back in your day? you didn't need to go to the hospital to give birth back then, you just squatted in the kitchen (where women belonged)?
or did i just get lost in the thread and i can't tell which post you're replying to?
ahhhh rich people problems.... if you don't think your rich take a look around next time your on a job site or a fast food restaurant or anywhere else people are working for close to minimum wage. Those people are rich compared to much of the world.
Government should pay for time off after child birth just like unemployment (according to Donna's info they do it in china for F@#@s sake)
Of course government should take over medical care too, before we are all paying half of our wages for medical insurance. Problem is the places where all these services are common the tax rate is high and america would loose their minds if we raised the tax rate to support these services. Even if the reality was we were paying out the same rate in medical insurance anyway the masses would revolt.
Kitchen
what does tetanus or soccer have to do with maternity leave?
Nothing. The original poster asked about women firms, then stated a bunch of parent/family type things. I'd guess that would because she thinks more traditionally as though she, the woman, would need to handle the family and a career. But it's not just a female in the workplace issue anymore... that was so '90's 'super-mom' thinking. Now Dad's are integrated (or coerced depending on perspective) into that mix. So finding a firm that understands family dynamics is important.
And to give you an example, this week the kids have done 3 dentist appointments, one doctor visit (another being scheduled hopefully tomorrow), an audiologist tomorrow, a school meeting, going home at lunch to let out the dog and feed our sick child (who is now old enough to be home alone all day) and we have one child open enrolled so we need to drop off and pick up every single day. My wife and I juggle who's doing what and recruit the grandparents as a taxi service a couple times a week.
I guess one advantage it brings to the workplace; Time management in a team environment. :P
Did a rundown on Donna’s graph based on personal tax rates:
Finland – 51%/54 Days
Portugal – 56.5%/20 Days
Spain – 52%/15 Days
Australia – 45%/2 Weeks
Denmark – 55.6%/2 Weeks
United Kingdom – 45%/2 Weeks
United States – 35%/0 Days
Almost proportional. The idea that these perceived benefits come from thin air is delusional. With 155,000,000 Americans working/paying taxes and 4,000,000 births per year that means that we are proposing that 50% of the population pay for something only 1% of the population need.
BTW Curt, I wasn’t “in a position to buy a school” I bought that school with nothing down and made payments from the profits of the school over 5 years (no bank). We found ways to have a family and make it work - on our own.
Sorry, Carrera, but your numbers are bullshit.
You forgot to include state and local taxes, FICA, property tax, sales tax, user fees, etc. Aside from that many of countries on your list provide a slew of public benefits not available here and higher quality of services.
Miles - You miss the point which is you can have it but you have to pay for it, somehow. We can’t afford to pay 51% in taxes regardless of services…we’ve screwed ourselves with lifestyle expectations. In Finland they pay 51% in personal tax and have a myriad of services, but the average new home in Finland is 880 SF. In the US the average is 2,204 SF. The services are needed but what Americans spend money on has left the gate.
More bullshit. They print money and hand it to the banks for them to play with while cutting social services. "Economics" is an artificial and thoroughly bogus construct used to enslave the masses and reward the few.
Cutting social services? Yeah, that's been happening a lot.
Miles, missed it again. What are the chances that expanded social service will be paid from the 1%? The answer is zero. What are the chances that expanded social services will be paid by redirecting defense or other wasteful spending? Answer is zero. The die is cast and nothing short of a revolution will turn it around. The 1% doesn’t need the masses anymore as witnesses by all the screw turning going on. If services are added for the masses the masses are going to pay for it – and they can’t.
Carrera, I didn't miss or imply anything. I simply stated that economics are used to enslave the masses.
FYI the 1% needs the masses for trickle up. Not the way economists have described it but as the reverse of trickle down: taking a little from everyone all the time.
Trickle down is of course the idea is that if you feed a pig enough, a few scraps will pass through undigested for the rats to eat.
The masses are enslaved through always-increasing taxation, resulting in more and more government dependency.
The masses are enslaved through always-increasing taxation, resulting in more and more government dependency.
Lol... I see it in reverse. The masses demand stuff; potholes filled, roads widened so their commute is quicker, protections against scams or unsafe products that some 'expert' said is ok (Prescriptions, UL certified, licensed professionals, etc.), clean and safe water and power, standards, laws and enforcement, clean air, and all those other things you can't acquire on your own or lack the knowledge to judge or deem 'fit and safe' or really anyway to dictate like outlets using the same current and volts.
So the masses want to be protected and are untrusting without protections. So there are libraries of regulations insuring you those protections so you don't have to fear or worry about it. Whether that is depositing a paycheck and knowing it's yours, or hopping in a car and knowing how everyone else is going to be on the road so there's not chaos... You need a huge entity behind that with the power to enforce what people are afraid of and have the authority and power to make it happen.... Hence the government. More fear = more regulations and government growth. Fear is good for government stimulation and higher taxes.
Government dependency? LOL
What are you dependent on the government for?
^^ Speaking of LOL.... your's a weird sort of fence-straddling viewpoint. Unlike you, I definitely don't see taxation as the result of a benevolent government striving to accommodate the desires of the helpless masses. Yes, there is always some of what you describe, but your summation is well off of the fact of the matter.
Force and money are great tools for a government. Accommodation is PR.
What are you dependent on the government for?
clean water
food safety
measles vaccinations
sanitation infrastructure
the interstate highway system
the military
student loans
the internets and spectrum divisions that allow said internets to work on my phone and from my wifi
money
etc.
I am a woman and I work in architecture. I have heard the horror stories but I've also worked for firms that supported women and men surrounding their parental leave after or before the birth of their child. People have kids, this is not an earth shattering new occurrence. My office is disproportionately male and many have young families. The parents in my office all deal with sick kid days, school delays/cancellations, doctors appointments etc regardless of their gender. But you know what - I, as a childless person, deal with getting sick, going to the doctor, having to wait for the plumber at home during work hours etc. If your boss or coworkers can't handle the fact that life happens it probably means you don't work in a very healthy environment. My sense is if you're looking for places that are supportive to women, you need to see if the firm is supportive of ALL it's employees regardless of gender, age, experience level etc. It's disappointing this thread has disintegrated to the state it is in right now. I for one would really like to know if people out there work in firms with policies that function well, treat people equitably, and generally make your working life better just like the original poster requested. In my opinion this whole thing should be filed under "This is Why We Can't Have Nice Things".
Seriously, if anyone gets an interview, ask to take a walk past the conference room and into the drafting space to get a sense of the environment. Does everyone look hollow-eyed and stressed out, CADding with their headphones on and a look of exhaustion and fear? You don't want to work there!
it doesn't even make sense anymore. i'm going to stop....
I work for a huge firm, and there is not only maternity leave here, but also paternity leave. Although neither are paid by the firm, I'm fortunate enough to work in a state that has short-term disability that covers some of the time off.
Many of our most effective people are young-ish parents. One thing I've noticed is that it seems like the mom crowd skews heavily towards project management as opposed to design, but I'm unclear whether this is something they're pushed into or just a coincidence of choice. I do know several moms who work odd schedules—usually coming into the office very early and leaving early (often working from home for a few more hours after the kids are in bed), sometimes working from home a day a week—and I can't see that they're penalized for it. In fact, I like working with them because their insistence on humane working hours keeps things saner for the whole team. Many are appointed staff (associate, senior associate) and in various leadership positions in the firm, though we have very few female principals. I'm hopeful that's just a matter of legacy, and once people my age have enough experience to be qualified that will become more balanced.
I don't even know what to say about what this thread has degenerated into, except that some people are incredibly short-sighted.
Saint - exactly where did I say that government is benevolent? Not that they aren't, just that they are very selective about who benefits.
What are you dependent on the government for?
Miles, see my ^^ symbol -- I was responding to Mightyaa's post.
@DeTwan: I have started this post and I am a proud South-American. So, before you speak of Uruguay, *please* go visit, or at least learn something about it. At the very least, for Eladio Dieste's sake. Your comments are ridiculous and offensive in many levels.
@DonnaSink: Thank you so much for your comments. I am an avid listener of Archinect Sessions and really appreciate having your opinion on this. I also appreciated Ken's comment on Sessions #16 - it IS a real issue, and it SHOULD be debated more often.
Miles, see my ^^ symbol -- I was responding to Mightyaa's post.
My fence straddling perceptions are just part of my belief system. Yen/Yang; you can't have good without bad.
student loans privatized? the gov't nationalized graduate loans and doubled the percentage rate!
-I agree with the comment above with respect to focus on finding a firm that already has women in the top positions in the firm.
-I would look for companies that sponsor kids' sports teams and firms where the current mothers/fathers who work in the firm leave early to attend games/events. Those will likely all be family focused environments.
-Look at companies that hire on consultants because that way, you could easily become a consultant at that point in your life.
-The small company that you are in now likely doesn't treat you like a number. I would imagine that smaller companies like the one that you are currently working in will be more understanding when that period of your life comes.
Just remember, a firm is not stupid, they will pay attention to the new diamond ring and start counting the days until the wedding and after the wedding.... If you are lucky you will land in a firm that won't have a problem with it.
-I would honestly say that in about 3:10 of the interviews that I have had in the past few years, they have asked me if I was: married, if I planned to have kids and what I would do during that time. Illegal I know, but that's our industry!
-The sad thing is that you will never know how many jobs you might get passed on, who get a feel for your age based off when you graduated university on your resume and don't even invite you in for an interview because you are a pregnancy flight risk.
What are you dependent on the government for?
...and again, Miles for the win.
Gdub...you sound very naive btw
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