Does anyone have any insight into when a client demands that you take down their project from your web site? What rights do they really have when there wasn't an NDA nor other privacy issues set into the contract?
Wonder about that. A client once made us agree never to even photograph the work but was agreed by contract at the start. Don’t think the photograph in question is protected if you make it an anonymous photograph. It’s a pissed off client thing, usually not worth it, you can always use it in proposals and RFP submission….can understand some not wanting things to be “public” these days.
If a client, who I respected, one with whom I wanted to maintain a good relationship, asked me to take their project off of my website, I would immediately take it down. With or without a confidentiality clause in the contract. No amount of marketing value from a single project on your site is worth the ill will that comes from souring a relationship with someone who could refer you to new clients.
Use the project in your live (non-digital) portfolio.
To re-iterate EKE'S point. My website has now been under construction for a few months as I do a new one. New work has been rolling in, a bit overwhelmed to be honest.....so personal and professional business relationships far out weigh eye candy on the web.
I think the last three posts are all right in terms of general good practice, but the OP seems to be asking about legalities. Depending on the contract used, the client may have zero legal recourse. I'd agree that it would make little common business sense to force the issue, but it's possible that the OP asks the question because he/she is already under threat of some kind of action.
Brings up a point -- there are many architects that never really have an initial sit-down with the client to go through the contract. A lot of this type of stuff can addressed up front in a meeting that wouldn't need to last forever, but would be very worthwhile. Wouldn't solve everything, but it'd sure be a step toward a better overall understanding.
I find it to be a bit of a catch 22--if you ask up front, most clients will say no. If you don't ask, you'll probably be fine, but that 1 in 10 or so clients is bound to make a fuss...
All great insight. @curtkram, we developed a private world class horse facility and residence on large acreage. We are trying to find out what prompted the demand, but are not getting anywhere. It seems like they just do not want us to prosper from the projects success.
@eke. We do not have a relationship with this client. Nothing in the contract covered this issue, and we portrayed the project on our web site for almost 7 years without a concern.
Unfortunately, I am not aware of any contract as the relationship was forged before I joined the firm. We cannot find any documentation in the archives. Which fast forward from then, I became president, then majority partner, and then bought out the other partner and became sole owner.
@tint. The relationship was in place before I joined the firm, but every site and building design was mine. The client built it exactly as we intended down to the paint colors. Project cost estimated at $20M. It is a very significant project for us.
@ jla-x,I would like nothing more than for them to waste their money, but with any legal action there is cost on your end. Lawyers are not cheap regardless of the minimal time they spend.
Not trying to nitpick, but first you said "Nothing in the contract covered this issue", and then it turns out you've not actually seen the contract since you now say you "cannot find any documentation". So, no leg to stand on.
I suppose you could still fight and win. Or lose. You'll have to determine how important the use of this seven-year-old image is to you.
Can you discuss this with the client, explain the significance to your marketing efforts, and possible come to a new agreement? Maybe a slightly less conspicuous usage of the imagery?
@johnsonwma, sounds like that project is a crown piece of the portfolio given your interest in keeping it? and it was yours to boot...so, a personal marketing feather in your cap
EKE's last sentence seems to ring truest for me. You satisfy their immediate need and continue to market with the project on a private, targeted basis.
big picture: keep an old client happy that potentially could return (esp one that built it out, down to a T)...surely the website is benefited by keeping it fresh with recent projects anyway?
There -- in a nutshell -- is the crux of your problem. You're focusing on the wrong issue -- if the client doesn't really know (and respect) you, the client's not likely to back away from this demand. And, given how you've described the project, I'm guessing the client has MUCH deeper pockets that do you.
Perhaps your former partner -- who presumably does have a relationship with this client -- could assist you by making introductions and trying to mediate a resolution.
The OP's original question was the legality. The problem is that he can prove nothing without a contract / documentation.
Your idea to try to now change the resulting "client relationship" situation is good -- and I must think so because I had already suggested it -- but it's an attempt to mitigate a solution to the problem: no contract / documentation. If the OP could produce the contract -- B101 covers this issue, for example, but could have been some other equal contact -- he'd have no legal problem.
Think I would use it as a marketing opportunity and ask for a visit. Ask them about their concerns and ask if it would be okay if you used the photo without any description, not even the location. If they remain firm tell them you will comply with their wishes immediately….then Segway into asking them how they are doing, how the design is performing and if there is anything else you can do to help, can’t hurt and it may lead somewhere.
^ Action taken is based on the results of the meeting with one of the options being do nothing. It's been up for seven years already. Three more and it would qualify for an easement.
I suspect they want to claim the work for themselves for some yet to be known motive. Perhaps as you took over where you are at, someone else took over at that place............if Carrera's suggestion doesn't work, I would let them sue. If they are up to no good then they won't actually sue, they will mainly threaten...............as I learned on Archinect lawyer session I think you should register the copyright of the drawings and post the drawings maybe? My guess is once you take down the images, some person will claim the project as their own for some form of "getting work" and then you can sue because you own the copyrights of the drawings from which the project was built.
just guessing, but i bet they just simply don't want to give the public a free view into their space...why would they ever want to claim authorship?!? or be "up to no good"?!?
i've run into clients who request alternate naming for their projects simply for privacy and modesty reasons (no NDA's or non-publish requests yet, but i've run into them in my former job at a larger office as a PA & intern)
No new contact from client. They did launch a new web site that boasts the "world class" facility and really sell themselves from the view of their buildings. Our firm is not mentioned but the builder gets all the praise.
Now something doesn't smell right.... can't be privacy as I presumed if they have it on their own website and they credit the contractor and not the architect? Bet they have ideas of replicating to the horse community.
Had a dog kennel guy do that to me....I did a big kennel for him before CAD, years later he bought a cheap CAD program and a plotter and copied my drawings and got a copyright on it and went national with it. Had other fish to fry and let it go. If I were you OP I'd fire off a copyright application right away.
At this point I'd build a huge web site around the project as a portfolio with client name and location and lots of link backs with the idea being to get your page to come up first on a goggle search for them.
I believe architects drawings are copyright protected are by rights now...we don't have to register them w/ the patent office
proto, guess you were wrong?!?
ha, not the first time!
johnsonwma, i don't think you need to do anything except request a meeting. if you've done this, just wait it out. there's certainly no legal precedent that would force you to remove anything, and, perhaps by waiting, it will cause them to engage with you eventually to work out a reasonable resolution
Yes copyright is automatic but I always took that extra step if I suspected trouble ahead, way more effective in court and on the occasion you forgot to put a copyright notice on the drawings.
Copywrite is automatic, but I don't think you can sue for infringement if it isn't registered. But if the rights were negotiated away in the contract ... Too bad. You need to find the agreement. That will solve the questions.
The issues however are more personal than anything else. Meet with them. Talk it over calmly. Figure out a pathway forward, or some type of compromise. Record minutes for the meeting so it is on record.
Client Demand for Project Removal on Website
Hello,
Does anyone have any insight into when a client demands that you take down their project from your web site? What rights do they really have when there wasn't an NDA nor other privacy issues set into the contract?
Thanks
Wonder about that. A client once made us agree never to even photograph the work but was agreed by contract at the start. Don’t think the photograph in question is protected if you make it an anonymous photograph. It’s a pissed off client thing, usually not worth it, you can always use it in proposals and RFP submission….can understand some not wanting things to be “public” these days.
Wonder no more: B101, 10.7
Post it anonymously on robme.com complete with floor plans and security specs.
If a client, who I respected, one with whom I wanted to maintain a good relationship, asked me to take their project off of my website, I would immediately take it down. With or without a confidentiality clause in the contract. No amount of marketing value from a single project on your site is worth the ill will that comes from souring a relationship with someone who could refer you to new clients.
Use the project in your live (non-digital) portfolio.
EKE has it
To re-iterate EKE'S point. My website has now been under construction for a few months as I do a new one. New work has been rolling in, a bit overwhelmed to be honest.....so personal and professional business relationships far out weigh eye candy on the web.
I think the last three posts are all right in terms of general good practice, but the OP seems to be asking about legalities. Depending on the contract used, the client may have zero legal recourse. I'd agree that it would make little common business sense to force the issue, but it's possible that the OP asks the question because he/she is already under threat of some kind of action.
Brings up a point -- there are many architects that never really have an initial sit-down with the client to go through the contract. A lot of this type of stuff can addressed up front in a meeting that wouldn't need to last forever, but would be very worthwhile. Wouldn't solve everything, but it'd sure be a step toward a better overall understanding.
might be a good question for the archinect podcast lawyer!
there isn't much information provided here. OP, why does your client not want you posting their project? what sort of client or project is it?
I find it to be a bit of a catch 22--if you ask up front, most clients will say no. If you don't ask, you'll probably be fine, but that 1 in 10 or so clients is bound to make a fuss...
All great insight. @curtkram, we developed a private world class horse facility and residence on large acreage. We are trying to find out what prompted the demand, but are not getting anywhere. It seems like they just do not want us to prosper from the projects success.
@eke. We do not have a relationship with this client. Nothing in the contract covered this issue, and we portrayed the project on our web site for almost 7 years without a concern.
Eh. What contract did you use?
Unfortunately, I am not aware of any contract as the relationship was forged before I joined the firm. We cannot find any documentation in the archives. Which fast forward from then, I became president, then majority partner, and then bought out the other partner and became sole owner.
It isn't your work anyways then, take it down.
let them waste their money and sue.
@tint. The relationship was in place before I joined the firm, but every site and building design was mine. The client built it exactly as we intended down to the paint colors. Project cost estimated at $20M. It is a very significant project for us.
@ jla-x,I would like nothing more than for them to waste their money, but with any legal action there is cost on your end. Lawyers are not cheap regardless of the minimal time they spend.
You ought to take the project down.
Not trying to nitpick, but first you said "Nothing in the contract covered this issue", and then it turns out you've not actually seen the contract since you now say you "cannot find any documentation". So, no leg to stand on.
I suppose you could still fight and win. Or lose. You'll have to determine how important the use of this seven-year-old image is to you.
Can you discuss this with the client, explain the significance to your marketing efforts, and possible come to a new agreement? Maybe a slightly less conspicuous usage of the imagery?
@johnsonwma, sounds like that project is a crown piece of the portfolio given your interest in keeping it? and it was yours to boot...so, a personal marketing feather in your cap
EKE's last sentence seems to ring truest for me. You satisfy their immediate need and continue to market with the project on a private, targeted basis.
big picture: keep an old client happy that potentially could return (esp one that built it out, down to a T)...surely the website is benefited by keeping it fresh with recent projects anyway?
"We do not have a relationship with this client."
There -- in a nutshell -- is the crux of your problem. You're focusing on the wrong issue -- if the client doesn't really know (and respect) you, the client's not likely to back away from this demand. And, given how you've described the project, I'm guessing the client has MUCH deeper pockets that do you.
Perhaps your former partner -- who presumably does have a relationship with this client -- could assist you by making introductions and trying to mediate a resolution.
^ I'd disagree. The crux of the problem is no contract / documentation.
He can't change the "contract" situation -- he can change the "client relationship" situation.
The OP's original question was the legality. The problem is that he can prove nothing without a contract / documentation.
Your idea to try to now change the resulting "client relationship" situation is good -- and I must think so because I had already suggested it -- but it's an attempt to mitigate a solution to the problem: no contract / documentation. If the OP could produce the contract -- B101 covers this issue, for example, but could have been some other equal contact -- he'd have no legal problem.
Think I would use it as a marketing opportunity and ask for a visit. Ask them about their concerns and ask if it would be okay if you used the photo without any description, not even the location. If they remain firm tell them you will comply with their wishes immediately….then Segway into asking them how they are doing, how the design is performing and if there is anything else you can do to help, can’t hurt and it may lead somewhere.
^^^ this is how you do it
^ Action taken is based on the results of the meeting with one of the options being do nothing. It's been up for seven years already. Three more and it would qualify for an easement.
I suspect they want to claim the work for themselves for some yet to be known motive. Perhaps as you took over where you are at, someone else took over at that place............if Carrera's suggestion doesn't work, I would let them sue. If they are up to no good then they won't actually sue, they will mainly threaten...............as I learned on Archinect lawyer session I think you should register the copyright of the drawings and post the drawings maybe? My guess is once you take down the images, some person will claim the project as their own for some form of "getting work" and then you can sue because you own the copyrights of the drawings from which the project was built.
just guessing, but i bet they just simply don't want to give the public a free view into their space...why would they ever want to claim authorship?!? or be "up to no good"?!?
i've run into clients who request alternate naming for their projects simply for privacy and modesty reasons (no NDA's or non-publish requests yet, but i've run into them in my former job at a larger office as a PA & intern)
No new contact from client. They did launch a new web site that boasts the "world class" facility and really sell themselves from the view of their buildings. Our firm is not mentioned but the builder gets all the praise.
drawings copyrighted?
proto, guess you were wrong?!?
are they owners, and they want to claim it in their 'portfolio'?
Now something doesn't smell right.... can't be privacy as I presumed if they have it on their own website and they credit the contractor and not the architect? Bet they have ideas of replicating to the horse community.
Had a dog kennel guy do that to me....I did a big kennel for him before CAD, years later he bought a cheap CAD program and a plotter and copied my drawings and got a copyright on it and went national with it. Had other fish to fry and let it go. If I were you OP I'd fire off a copyright application right away.
At this point I'd build a huge web site around the project as a portfolio with client name and location and lots of link backs with the idea being to get your page to come up first on a goggle search for them.
drawings copyrighted?
I believe architects drawings are copyright protected are by rights now...we don't have to register them w/ the patent office
proto, guess you were wrong?!?
ha, not the first time!
johnsonwma, i don't think you need to do anything except request a meeting. if you've done this, just wait it out. there's certainly no legal precedent that would force you to remove anything, and, perhaps by waiting, it will cause them to engage with you eventually to work out a reasonable resolution
Yes copyright is automatic but I always took that extra step if I suspected trouble ahead, way more effective in court and on the occasion you forgot to put a copyright notice on the drawings.
Copywrite is automatic, but I don't think you can sue for infringement if it isn't registered. But if the rights were negotiated away in the contract ... Too bad. You need to find the agreement. That will solve the questions.
The issues however are more personal than anything else. Meet with them. Talk it over calmly. Figure out a pathway forward, or some type of compromise. Record minutes for the meeting so it is on record.
Pay for a Google ad campaign, every time someone googles that place your drawings show up with your name on it.
Copyright is auto matic, but it's your obligation to protect that right. Can't be selectively enforced
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