Hi all, I've recently relocated state and completed an unpaid internship this year. Why is it so difficult to land a paid job, or even just a job in general? When most firms are asking for minimum 2 years post industry experience how is it even possible to find something in this ever growing competitive nature of the industry?! Any feedback would do wonders as i don't know if anymore unpaid positions would be beneficial.
It's all a matter of supply and demand. Why would employers pay for something if they can get it for free? You gave your labor away. Now that you want a little green stuff, the prospective employer will simply find another chump to work for nothing. There seems to be an unlimited supply of them. I don't mean to blame the victims, but we are our own worst enemies.
your sketches and design work is pretty good. I really like your hand work.
However- your construction drawings really need work. You need more finesse- pay attention to line weights and other graphic elements.... It's a shame you don't carry the same level of graphic rigor present in your design work into your construction documents. And by rigor, I don't mean decorate your construction drawings with unnecessary shit.
Don't work for free -- you are essentially telling your employer (who isn't paying you) that you are not worth any compensation. Judging by your work, you certainly are.
Thanks for all your feedback - much appreciated! I know the documentation side of things is a little raw compared to other work, working full-time I feel could aid that area.
I guess I'm also a little curious as to why most positions ask for a minimum 2 years post grad experience. Is it possible to gain employment when you may be under that minimum mark? for instance can that rule be ignored when applying for work otherwise what is the alternative?
Also, what's everyones thoughts on going down the path of a sales rep to have a foot in the industry? Is that a wise alternative given the current state of the industries supply vs demand of new designers?
working for free is fine so long as you have literally nothing better to do, just dont worry about any sense of loyalty or responsibility towards those guys.
It seems most employers are realizing the 2 year minimum is unrealistic in this day and age when the majority of folks that would be at that mark had to migrate to other types of employment during this very extended recession. They want someone who doesn't have to have to be guided every step of the way, so if you're a quick study and can prove yourself (chicken or the egg here) firms seem willing to look past your experience. My firm is going through this right now, with positions open, but not much for experienced "grunts" out there, forcing them to look at new grads as an alternative (thankfully).
when i first graduated from school, i had the same issue. first off, there were very little jobs out there in 2009. every job that was out there required 3-5 years experience-NO EXCEPTIONS. i was repeatedly turned down for that reason --no experience . i finally landed an underpaid internship w/a mom and pop arch firm. the pay was terrible --when they did pay me. at the time, i thought this process was my right of passage into the arch industry.
within a year of graduation i landed another job that was still underpaid, but i at least received a check every two weeks. eventually i landed a great job that i am very happy to be at. --its a job that i did not realize would be a dream to work for-3-1/2 years post graduation.
now that i am at a stable job, i think back to that first underpaid intership and it quite frankly angers me. i think back to the fact that people actually take advantage of new grads like that. if i could go back, i wouldnt have done it--like a few other posts above, it demeans our entire industry. you should not work unpaid.......ever. you will regret it someday.
as far as landing a paid job ----dont quit. put resumes out --check the aia website (your specific city's website) for job postings. make a list of hundreds of firms and contact them every 3 months. -my job only hires people who "tail" the firm for sometimes up to two years. keep trying, dont stop looking. find something paid-even if it sucks--get your experience then move on. dont be afraid to move on when you feel you've outgrown the firm.
The recession is pretty much over, guys, or thats what they say...
Dec 5, 14 1:55 am ·
·
Not in the housing sector. In other fields more distant and less dependent on the housing sector... yes but we are not entirely out of the recession. We are climbing up from the recession's depth but it isn't entirely over. The effects will linger for years and there is long term changes that is hear to stay for a long while and that is the more tougher lending. Banks are going to be more difficult to lending than it was before the recession.
But only for a while. Memories will fade. Eventually another bubble will form and we will be off to the races. Then, the next big crash will happen, etc. The cycles will go on and on. Bankers are idiots who are closely supervised by bigger idiots (government and politicians). They either hand out money to any wino who wants it, or they won't give Warren Buffet a car loan. No happy mediums.
Bankers are idiots who are closely supervised by bigger idiots (government and politicians).
I think it might be the other way around, but in any case the result is the same. And every price how the races are shorter each time, with less money for finishing?
I need someone to work for me but recent grads need to be trains before they can start making me money. There seems to be a steady supply of people who are already trained to some minimum level - say 3-5 years - so I will hire them before I spend what little money I have hiring someone who I will need to spend time and money training. See?
I'm in a similar situation as Gruen. As I read through the posts above his I was prepared to post about how hard it is to justify hiring most new graduates because they just don't know enough to not cost more than they are worth. It is a real conundrum. I know everyone needs a start but when you run a business and aren't big enough to be able to absorb the expense of new graduates what can you do?
That's does make sense. But what little chance do recent graduates have in gaining employment, especially when universities are pumping more and more "qualified" architects and designers into the world without the necessary skills to jump straight into employment like other degrees.
What I'd like to know is how are all the already trained designers obtaining the minimum 3-5 years experience without working for free? What other avenues are there? Or are unpaid internships for the whole 3 years the only viable option? I know in Australia the government is cracking down on how long one is able to work for free as an intern - this makes the situation extremely difficult... The designers with real industry exposure are the ones able to easily jump from one firm to the next and I think that's where every graduate wants to be especially when there is a large uni debt is looming over our heads.
Unfortunately I'm not growing fast enough to hire yet - but my thought process is the same. Put it down here for prospective for the OP. I had the same problem when I was starting out. I found that the first tiny job was enough to open the second door & so on.
you can start out be doing something related and useful, working for a physical modelling company,a visualization firm, or working for a contractor (swinging hammers or office work) will all increase your skills and make you more marketable
Dec 8, 14 12:43 pm ·
·
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Landing a paid position. The best possible 'foot in the door'
Hi all, I've recently relocated state and completed an unpaid internship this year. Why is it so difficult to land a paid job, or even just a job in general? When most firms are asking for minimum 2 years post industry experience how is it even possible to find something in this ever growing competitive nature of the industry?! Any feedback would do wonders as i don't know if anymore unpaid positions would be beneficial.
Johnny
http://johnnydesign.com.au/
Also, i've heard becoming an architectural sales rep is a step in the right direction..
It's all a matter of supply and demand. Why would employers pay for something if they can get it for free? You gave your labor away. Now that you want a little green stuff, the prospective employer will simply find another chump to work for nothing. There seems to be an unlimited supply of them. I don't mean to blame the victims, but we are our own worst enemies.
Never work for free.
your sketches and design work is pretty good. I really like your hand work.
However- your construction drawings really need work. You need more finesse- pay attention to line weights and other graphic elements.... It's a shame you don't carry the same level of graphic rigor present in your design work into your construction documents. And by rigor, I don't mean decorate your construction drawings with unnecessary shit.
Your work is nice.
Don't work for free -- you are essentially telling your employer (who isn't paying you) that you are not worth any compensation. Judging by your work, you certainly are.
Good work. Never work for free. When you decide to finally quit that office, take a huge Upper-Decker in their restroom. Please.
Thanks for all your feedback - much appreciated! I know the documentation side of things is a little raw compared to other work, working full-time I feel could aid that area.
I guess I'm also a little curious as to why most positions ask for a minimum 2 years post grad experience. Is it possible to gain employment when you may be under that minimum mark? for instance can that rule be ignored when applying for work otherwise what is the alternative?
Also, what's everyones thoughts on going down the path of a sales rep to have a foot in the industry? Is that a wise alternative given the current state of the industries supply vs demand of new designers?
working for free is fine so long as you have literally nothing better to do, just dont worry about any sense of loyalty or responsibility towards those guys.
It seems most employers are realizing the 2 year minimum is unrealistic in this day and age when the majority of folks that would be at that mark had to migrate to other types of employment during this very extended recession. They want someone who doesn't have to have to be guided every step of the way, so if you're a quick study and can prove yourself (chicken or the egg here) firms seem willing to look past your experience. My firm is going through this right now, with positions open, but not much for experienced "grunts" out there, forcing them to look at new grads as an alternative (thankfully).
when i first graduated from school, i had the same issue. first off, there were very little jobs out there in 2009. every job that was out there required 3-5 years experience-NO EXCEPTIONS. i was repeatedly turned down for that reason --no experience . i finally landed an underpaid internship w/a mom and pop arch firm. the pay was terrible --when they did pay me. at the time, i thought this process was my right of passage into the arch industry.
within a year of graduation i landed another job that was still underpaid, but i at least received a check every two weeks. eventually i landed a great job that i am very happy to be at. --its a job that i did not realize would be a dream to work for-3-1/2 years post graduation.
now that i am at a stable job, i think back to that first underpaid intership and it quite frankly angers me. i think back to the fact that people actually take advantage of new grads like that. if i could go back, i wouldnt have done it--like a few other posts above, it demeans our entire industry. you should not work unpaid.......ever. you will regret it someday.
as far as landing a paid job ----dont quit. put resumes out --check the aia website (your specific city's website) for job postings. make a list of hundreds of firms and contact them every 3 months. -my job only hires people who "tail" the firm for sometimes up to two years. keep trying, dont stop looking. find something paid-even if it sucks--get your experience then move on. dont be afraid to move on when you feel you've outgrown the firm.
The recession is pretty much over, guys, or thats what they say...
Not in the housing sector. In other fields more distant and less dependent on the housing sector... yes but we are not entirely out of the recession. We are climbing up from the recession's depth but it isn't entirely over. The effects will linger for years and there is long term changes that is hear to stay for a long while and that is the more tougher lending. Banks are going to be more difficult to lending than it was before the recession.
The party ride is over for awhile.
The party ride is over for awhile
But only for a while. Memories will fade. Eventually another bubble will form and we will be off to the races. Then, the next big crash will happen, etc. The cycles will go on and on. Bankers are idiots who are closely supervised by bigger idiots (government and politicians). They either hand out money to any wino who wants it, or they won't give Warren Buffet a car loan. No happy mediums.
Bankers are idiots who are closely supervised by bigger idiots (government and politicians).
I think it might be the other way around, but in any case the result is the same. And every price how the races are shorter each time, with less money for finishing?
Sounds like your business is growing, Gruen -- must be doing something right -- nice!
I'm in a similar situation as Gruen. As I read through the posts above his I was prepared to post about how hard it is to justify hiring most new graduates because they just don't know enough to not cost more than they are worth. It is a real conundrum. I know everyone needs a start but when you run a business and aren't big enough to be able to absorb the expense of new graduates what can you do?
That's does make sense. But what little chance do recent graduates have in gaining employment, especially when universities are pumping more and more "qualified" architects and designers into the world without the necessary skills to jump straight into employment like other degrees.
What I'd like to know is how are all the already trained designers obtaining the minimum 3-5 years experience without working for free? What other avenues are there? Or are unpaid internships for the whole 3 years the only viable option? I know in Australia the government is cracking down on how long one is able to work for free as an intern - this makes the situation extremely difficult... The designers with real industry exposure are the ones able to easily jump from one firm to the next and I think that's where every graduate wants to be especially when there is a large uni debt is looming over our heads.
you can start out be doing something related and useful, working for a physical modelling company,a visualization firm, or working for a contractor (swinging hammers or office work) will all increase your skills and make you more marketable
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