Hi all, looking for some advice - may be copyright issues but unsure.
Basically, we're doing more work in Revit, and sharing our files w/ consultants and contractor via collaborative website. So far, no issues w/ that, but somebody in our office recently added a sub-consultant (supplier, actually) and now they have access to everybody's revit and CAD files, too. We have no specific immediate concerns but we recognize that this might open up a can of worms. Our electrical consultant 'dumbs down' their models before upload, which we think is a decent enough idea - but then what's the point of working on the same file(s) in the first place?
My understanding is that as designers and engineers, our printed drawings are our "product," ie what we're paid for. But these days, working collaboratively online, we're opening ourselves up to liability when we share our working models - what's to prevent a teammate sharing our unfinished work with somebody else down the line?
There are many ins and outs, but if anybody's had similar thoughts or experience, maybe we could all benefit from some discussion about copyright, unfinished work, and access to working files.
Bowling-Ball. Our office has had a similar issues regarding tenant teams (federal employees) asking for CAD files so they can "play around" with options. There is a real issue with having more than one official copy of working drawings and it's hard/impossible to control who works on what files.
I see sharing CAD files with contractors problematic because you expect them to produce shop-drawings based on site dimensions. Too often we get GC who try and cheat and simply scan our permit sets or an old sketch, put their name on top, and call them shops without ever working out the details themselves. I can only imagine the liability problems if they could just grab any CAD and use it... perhaps even use it for another project.
In the end, I don't trust anyone with my CAD, not even my P.eng consultants (but at least I know they never care to coordinate, because they're engineers).
We share our BIM files only with the consultants that are under contract with our firm with a disclaimer. Our consultants are prohibited from sharing our files and theirs with any other entity. We stipulate this in our contract with the consultants.
Everyone else gets 2d CAD backgrounds with a disclaimer. We stipulate this in our contract with the client.
If the client or the contractor wants a model, they will have to hire a 3rd party to create the model from scratch.
Most contractors don't want to resolve any potential problems prior to construction through clash detection. This could limit RFIs and Change Orders, which would essentially be taking money out of their pockets.
urbanity - I like that approach and is close to what I'm thinking of proposing. With the project that gave rise to these questions, both client and contractor do have access to the model. Saying that last part out loud, sounds scary. Ha.
We have a long-standing, very successful relationship with the contractor, and they'll be working toward a fixed price - they very much want to eliminate conflicts prior to construction, and for this reason they have access to our files. To what extent they're using the BIM vs CAD vs PDFs, I can't tell you.
I can appreciate the long standing relationship with the contractor, however relationships can change...rather quickly when money is involved, especially in higher risk project types.
This all came about because the public utilities office was starting their design work, and requested files from me. I had to tell him to go straight to the consultants, that I wouldn't distribute somebody else's working files. If they'd asked for pdfs, this wouldn't have come up. I'm just not sure there's a real difference at the end if the day, except to say that it doesn't 'feel right.'
For one off requests like these, draw up a cad release form with the required non-liability disclaimers, which they must sign and date and return to you before any file sharing.
I've heard Revit Design Review is a good option, allowing you to share the information you want your contractor to see without giving them full access.
Dec 1, 14 12:31 pm ·
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Sharing files w/ consultants
Hi all, looking for some advice - may be copyright issues but unsure.
Basically, we're doing more work in Revit, and sharing our files w/ consultants and contractor via collaborative website. So far, no issues w/ that, but somebody in our office recently added a sub-consultant (supplier, actually) and now they have access to everybody's revit and CAD files, too. We have no specific immediate concerns but we recognize that this might open up a can of worms. Our electrical consultant 'dumbs down' their models before upload, which we think is a decent enough idea - but then what's the point of working on the same file(s) in the first place?
My understanding is that as designers and engineers, our printed drawings are our "product," ie what we're paid for. But these days, working collaboratively online, we're opening ourselves up to liability when we share our working models - what's to prevent a teammate sharing our unfinished work with somebody else down the line?
There are many ins and outs, but if anybody's had similar thoughts or experience, maybe we could all benefit from some discussion about copyright, unfinished work, and access to working files.
Bowling-Ball. Our office has had a similar issues regarding tenant teams (federal employees) asking for CAD files so they can "play around" with options. There is a real issue with having more than one official copy of working drawings and it's hard/impossible to control who works on what files.
I see sharing CAD files with contractors problematic because you expect them to produce shop-drawings based on site dimensions. Too often we get GC who try and cheat and simply scan our permit sets or an old sketch, put their name on top, and call them shops without ever working out the details themselves. I can only imagine the liability problems if they could just grab any CAD and use it... perhaps even use it for another project.
In the end, I don't trust anyone with my CAD, not even my P.eng consultants (but at least I know they never care to coordinate, because they're engineers).
Paper rules.
^ but scissor cuts paper.
We share our BIM files only with the consultants that are under contract with our firm with a disclaimer. Our consultants are prohibited from sharing our files and theirs with any other entity. We stipulate this in our contract with the consultants.
Everyone else gets 2d CAD backgrounds with a disclaimer. We stipulate this in our contract with the client.
If the client or the contractor wants a model, they will have to hire a 3rd party to create the model from scratch.
Most contractors don't want to resolve any potential problems prior to construction through clash detection. This could limit RFIs and Change Orders, which would essentially be taking money out of their pockets.
Any BIM or CAD file will contain errors.
Our work is in the private sector.
urbanity - I like that approach and is close to what I'm thinking of proposing. With the project that gave rise to these questions, both client and contractor do have access to the model. Saying that last part out loud, sounds scary. Ha.
We have a long-standing, very successful relationship with the contractor, and they'll be working toward a fixed price - they very much want to eliminate conflicts prior to construction, and for this reason they have access to our files. To what extent they're using the BIM vs CAD vs PDFs, I can't tell you.
I can appreciate the long standing relationship with the contractor, however relationships can change...rather quickly when money is involved, especially in higher risk project types.
This all came about because the public utilities office was starting their design work, and requested files from me. I had to tell him to go straight to the consultants, that I wouldn't distribute somebody else's working files. If they'd asked for pdfs, this wouldn't have come up. I'm just not sure there's a real difference at the end if the day, except to say that it doesn't 'feel right.'
I've heard Revit Design Review is a good option, allowing you to share the information you want your contractor to see without giving them full access.
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