They spend 20K per month on Floor Cleaning Supplies for that building - I'm friends with the supplier - the maintenance staff is going crazy trying to keep up with the place

jlxarchitect,
I have the same experience with Rem and his buildings...
in theory I love rem, but I cannot see a connection between theory and building. The builings are very strong from a marketing point of view and their interior experience is nice indeed, but practical they are not. Some students I know in Utrecht cannot stop complaining about the educatorium: During college u can't hear what they say and when taking an exam u hear everything and so on. But it is great for a once a year visit for an archi-freak like me, unless when you are on the second floor and try to find a toilet :(

But hey there is more than enough 'practical' achitecture and it's boring like hell, so I'm happy that in this world ruled by developpers and their horrible suit&tie 'architecture' there is still people like Rem building exciting, adventurous and imperfect architecture.

Don't say what you think you might spoil your face,
if you walk in the crowd you won't leave any trace
(Robert Smith/the Cure)

I'm happy Rem doesn't walk in the crowd, but I'm affraid for the blind Rem followers (sheep) that like the Corbu-sheep seem not to think themselves but blindly follow their interpretation of their god and build oma-style without the oma-genius touch. Most European crap buildings/urban plans are made in the name of Corbu, let's pray the Rem-sheep won't have this desastrous efect on our world...
as Karl Marx said: I'm definately not a marxist.

maybe vines will soon cover it up and gently hide it away, similar to the mies architecture building a few years back.

As a theorist, I love what Rem has to say, but his buildings are a mixed bag. I've toured five of his buildings, and they all feel "cheap", but he's managed to turn this into a selling point by extolling the "non-detail". A typical Rem detail is in the Congrexpo, where he has crudely cut acoustic tile running into the exterior glass curtain wall. So when you are standing outside, you can see a true section of a typical plenum assembly, with all its ugly inner workings.

It's also pretty evident by visiting any of his buildings that he doesn't put much stock in the exterior image of the building, in fact, sometimes he mocks the exterior by plastering it with really bad graphic images, like cow spots, or tiger stripes in the case of the IIT student center but he does create some pretty phenomenal interior spaces, at least for the architectural tourist. I'm not sure how well these spaces actually function, but the program always seems well thought out.

"It's also pretty evident by visiting any of his buildings that he doesn't put much stock in the exterior image of the building, in fact, sometimes he mocks the exterior by plastering it with really bad graphic images, like cow spots, or tiger stripes in the case of the IIT student center but he does create some pretty phenomenal interior spaces, at least for the architectural tourist. I'm not sure how well these spaces actually function, but the program always seems well thought out."

So glead KAKACABEZA points this out. Do you get this from a magazine or your own points of view?

Yeah right. I agree with "jlxarchitect." How can you say that "I'm not sure how well these spaces actually function, but the program always seems well thought out."?

Working out the program IS making the spaces function!

In support of the building I think the work done in collaboration with the graphics firm 2x4 is ground-breaking.

I'm a student at IIT, so I am in the building everyday, and you know what, it works perfectly. I don't know if you guys are doing oyur research, other than your magazines but let me clear up a few misconceptions.

First,
"...the reason to build a student center in IIT is not just provide a meeting place for IIT students, but also provide a new image for the downsizing school."

Well, in the past 5 years, the Arch department here has over doubled, we are now taking on another building opposite Crown Hall's south porch. Downsizing??

Second,
"The center's tube is so brutally connected with the rest of the building. They are almost totally seperated without any connection to each other."

You can physically see and touch the tube from inside the building, so how seperate can they be? Also, the tube avoids direct contact with the buildings supporting structure because otherwise vibrations from passing trains would shake the building and make for a very loud interior experiance. The tube serves a very clear purpose, to block the El sound from entering the building and it is successful. Sure if you really try, you can hear a train go by, but the student center has such a high traffic of students, (because it serves us well) that nobody even realizes that a train runs through the tube!

Thrird,
"They spend 20K per month on Floor Cleaning Supplies for that building"

This may be true, the aluminum flor is probably a pain to keep nice, (specially in the winter) but I would note that if the maintance crew is busy, the building must be getting used....alot....which says something for the building and it's pupose. An interesting note, REM actually wanted the entire building to be floored with this aluminum sheeting, in and out, that woulda been a mess!!! Try 100K a month for cleaning!!!

Fourth,
"The builings are very strong from a marketing point of view and their interior experience is nice indeed, but practical they are not."

I don't know that this comment applies directly to the IIT Campus Center or not, but it is for sure practical. THe building was designed around pathes that students naturally take through the space, so all the paths lie on a diagonal. This is awesome because people can walk straight through the building and across the street to their classes. They don't have to follow an annoying sidewalk around the building, or go up a bunch and steps and through a receptionist and out a back door. They simply walk straight through it, as if it wasn't even there. We students are lazy, we don't like to walk around stuff..haha...no seriously.

Fifth,
"tiger stripes in the case of the IIT student center"
It's actually wood wall paper, blown up and made into a stencil and it is aweful I admit. The paper sample was actually given to REM as a joke...and that's why we don't kid around with architect... The 2x4 work is awesome though, alot of fun to look at. If you look closely at the front window collage, you can see some people in quite interesting positions, we joke about it all the time. It's actually a pass time now, we call it, make fun of the collage window...I'll try and put some pics up later, it's finals week so we are really busy with "transitional spaces."

That's All. Take care guys.
~MYC

UrbanDesign:

I don't know how to response that. Your points are well spoken, but I think you are misleading others if you an Architecture student.

My previous comments:
"The center's tube is so brutally connected with the rest of the building. They are almost totally seperated without any connection to each other."

And that is your response:
"You can physically see and touch the tube from inside the building, so how seperate can they be? Also, the tube avoids direct contact with the buildings supporting structure because otherwise vibrations from passing trains would shake the building and make for a very loud interior experiance. The tube serves a very clear purpose, to block the El sound from entering the building and it is successful. Sure if you really try, you can hear a train go by, but the student center has such a high traffic of students, (because it serves us well) that nobody even realizes that a train runs through the tube! "

The connection between The tube and the center is very loose. Rem actually try to connect the tube with the rest of building somehow besides expose exposing the bottom of the Tube inside the center. See the roof section for yourself.

The fact that Rem designed a tube doesn't mean this is the only good way to design IIT center. How about not to occupy the site that much and make building higher in West side of EL? If that is the chosen one, do we really need to spend that doubled budge for the Tube? And For IIT

UrbanDesign:

I don't know how to response that. Your points are well spoken, but I think you are misleading others if you are an Architecture student.

My previous comments:
"The center's tube is so brutally connected with the rest of the building. They are almost totally seperated without any connection to each other."

And that is your response:
"You can physically see and touch the tube from inside the building, so how seperate can they be? Also, the tube avoids direct contact with the buildings supporting structure because otherwise vibrations from passing trains would shake the building and make for a very loud interior experiance. The tube serves a very clear purpose, to block the El sound from entering the building and it is successful. Sure if you really try, you can hear a train go by, but the student center has such a high traffic of students, (because it serves us well) that nobody even realizes that a train runs through the tube! "

The connection between The tube and the center is very loose. Rem actually try to connect the tube with the rest of building somehow besides exposing the bottom of the Tube inside the center. See the roof section for yourself. I think the tube is too self centered.

The fact that Rem designed a tube doesn't mean this is the only good way to design IIT center. How about not to occupy the site that much and make building higher in West side of EL? If that is the chosen one, do we really need to spend that doubled budge for the Tube? And For IIT campus, I believe a higher student center building would be better.

I began to understand Rem is making Brutal building these days to express his feel for today's society--- quick and function. I hope he is right. Why? Because he pointed out a very easy way to DESIGN a building. He just use his imagination to design the spaces for each components of a building, then wrap them together. His early example would be Cardiff Basy opera House competition design. This illustrates he seems having a different view from the classical judgement when judging the beauty of a buidling. He don't use Proportion anymore. I don't know if this is right or not. But sure some of his buidling is ugly like IIT center.

If this center is successful, I believe Rem will publish it in many more magazines than just some like GA, Architectural Record. I know Rem, because I am his supporter but not for this building.

Yes Yes,
I see what you are saying about the tube, but I, personally don't think it hurts the building. I think the tube may be for more of a marketing stance rather than architectual. I have talked to people on the El who tell me that they have riden over an hour just to go through the tube, and these were just normal folk (as opposed to architects ;)). Also I think the fact that the build was rated as one of the top 5 projects in North America in the past 2 years has alot to do with te tube. I think the site for the building is part of what makes it so interesting. Sorry if I mislead anyone, I'll try to be more clear in my points!

That is an interesting point. I take it. One of my frined working as an IT guy in a finance firm told me that The tube is most interesting part for him too. I just love talk to the people not in our Arch. field.

"I think the fact that the build was rated as one of the top 5 projects in North America in the past 2 years has alot to do with te tube. " Who said that? I hope this is true since I am SMR( Did I told you my formal discussion name is SMR?). You can guess the meaning for M and R, can't you?

"To understand the building you need to understand the experience of existing in and moving around the IIT campus." That is the idea of the whole design. I have no doubt about it. My criticism is in other area!

The center should be partially higher, Rem intend to do it. Well, the main idea for the twiested roof is because they have diagonal passenger. So incorporate this into the whole building, he twisted the roof, it is a logical move. The same strategy as Eisenman did for the urban space when he designed the Nunonati Headquarter in japan.( just for an example). But why not move some roof higher to hide the
Tube in some degrees.


"and Rem very deliberately distributed the programmatic elements over the largest possible area in order to “re-urbanize” the void. This is why the building isn’t taller and more compact," Does Re-urbanise means we need to put all the buildings flat on the ground? There is a highrise building in the campus, now if somone need to know where is the IIT, everyone will point him to the highrise and say "IIT is located at that area, but a little north".

Actually Mies campus failure is not because of his building, but because of his rigid grid master plan. Don't you agree?

I guess Rem want to incorporate The Tube into the center to express an idea--- IIT have courage to face any challenge. I like it. But the whole building just looks like a project he didn't know how to finish it.

For those of you don't know this project, the following is a picture. Hope I did it right.

Try again: