Here I am sitting down looking at another 10hr day of Revit thinking... maybe I should hire these guys to do some grunt work and I'll still make money.
Here is what all you graduates have to look forward to, days of CL postings to the services board. Could be making that much at Jimmy Johns if you didn't quit to go to architecture school.
And I thought you were a millionaire Non Sequitur, all those billion dollar projects you have going on. You surely should be able to afford them, right?
Maybe the problem is with CAD - now anybody can draw. Have any of you worked in offices’ where drawing projects got shipped to India? 2 of 3 sons jumped ship when it started happening at their jobs….sparked an idea in 1 son who now has all his renderings done in Vietnam at $100. a pop then re-sells X10. In the few instances I know it never seems to work with CD’s, they always come back with problems and need to be constantly reworked.
Seem to remember some legal problem with this and firms hiring Canadian pass-thru’s that then hired in India. I was approached with this and while I listened politely I didn’t bite, just not me.
Carrera, the problem is from a number of different factors. The colleges ramped up enrollment over the past few decades on top of the downturns, bim allows anyone and everyone to become an 'architect'. The general public does not need an architect like say a lawyer. You could literally list off hundreds of factors. Vacant cheap housing can be found through out the US, yet get your second DUI and you might need one of these. Can anyone guess what that would be? I wonder what the factor is that made you drink so much?
Architecture is simply dead as we'd like to think of it. Once the student loan bubble pops here is several years, anyone not at the top in the architectural field will 'literally' be toeing the trigger.
I worked at a firm that used this method of shipping the redlines overseas at the end of the day and they would be ready by morning (india or china) The problem was it took half a day to check them and the rest of the day to fix mistakes. To me as a CAD monkey back then I could have done them myself in the same amount of time with much less headache.
However, you would cost upwards of TEN times as much given that you can by a $10 item (in the U.S.) for $1 in China for the same thing given its made in China these days.... anyway. There is a serious currency exchange problem.
That's another topic, altogether.
When your competitors are laying off local staff to contract cheap foreign labor to do the work then it is obvious what it's about.... to squeeze out a profit with a dropping price ceiling.
Sep 17, 14 12:06 pm ·
·
However, the question I have on this case is... the advertiser on Craiglist is probably a student at the nearby college/university charging such low prices because their cost of living is low and it is largely subsidized by student loans and grants and scholarships so the person doesn't need to charge so much not to mention that the person is not operating a business legally... ie. no business license at a location where such use is either not zoned for it OR the building's occupancy classification is not classified for such use nor is such a use being authorized by owner of property.
It is unlikely that someone who owns the building it is located in would run their business as such low prices at a professional standard because they don't make enough money to cover the expenses of such a use.
I don't think I was clear, it took as long to check them and make corrections as it would have taken me to do the actual red lines myself. So what ever they were paying the guys overseas was pretty much throwing money away. You also loose the ability of the person fixing red lines to identify other issues and correct them.
bet these guys overseas are a lot more productive than many workers in the west ;)
Sep 17, 14 10:44 pm ·
·
Productive.... they maybe but they don't know jack sh-t about our local building codes and zoning regulations let alone understand it that a person that is trained and local here in the U.S. would already know and understand and do it right the first time with minimal errors.
There is one thing to be productive it is another thing to produce a bunch of junk that won't pass the local regulations. This is because foreign drafting services will often do not have familiarity with our codes nor looks at the codes as they are amended and adopted in the state having jurisdiction and the zoning regulations of the authorities having jurisdiction.
They just don't get the regulations because they don't live in the same regulatory environment. It's just plain different.
They misspelled nearly everything on their so-called wall assembly. Those drawings wouldn't even get you through a site plan application, let alone pass for CD. I pity the fool who hires these idiots.
do people use densglass for interior sheathing? i suppose dens glass should be one word, but it's separated with the capital letter in their logo. i would let that slide.
also, i suppose 3 layer plywood would be better stated as 3-ply, and even better stated with a thickness.
Yep, 10.5" slab would be too thick and heavy for the support system which based on the connection detail would collapse. These boys don't even have a good sense of structural design & engineering.
Normally I would thought the support is stud based but WTF is going on in their heads that they would support a concrete slab as thick as a residential wall foundation. Wow.... the angle brackets connected to rigid foam.
Sorry, this is a death trap.
So many hopelessly stupid specifications that will never pass any building codes in the U.S.
Might pass the building codes of Haiti before that big earthquake some years ago. Oh, wait... they had virtually no building codes at all.
Check this out, just got this on my email…www.gravitasviz.com/…500 Bucks for a rendering and look at all that is included – and this guy is in Texas and his name - Marcus Moore doesn’t sound Indian to me. I see all this talk about rendering software and learning how to model/render and I don’t get it….why would you hire a guy in-house for $35k/yr to do this, that’s about 3 Grand a month which would be 5 renderings a month - who has that volume of work? I also don’t get computer rendering – trying to make a rendering look like a photograph – all of our renderings were water colors – where’s the music with these things?
carrera, people like to change things. when you do a water color rendering like that, it's pretty much done. that 35k a year (which is what fast food people make, not professionals) gives you someone that will keep changing the model as the design changes, and as the client asks for different options. with the computer, you don't have to start over every time. you just change the part that needs changing.
you can't outsource a rendering if you want to stand over someone's shoulder and constantly tweak it.
You never did renderings until you settle the design changes. The problem is constant changing and letting it happen instead of taking control of the situation.
You did one rendering at schematic and one at th ending phase of Design Development.
The construction documents won't have "renderings" in general. It will be orthographics.
You manage the project differently and you take more control of things and limit change orders. You let clients have time to decide... of course but you tell them you won't be taking anymore change orders by the client after a certain point in each phase. In other words, you need to manage the client a little bit and get them to settle and be decisive.
Curt, thought of some questions after I hung-up. So you are saying that you use the computer generated rendering as a design tool in the development of your SD’s? I’m not that far gone, retired in ’03, but a rendering was a deliverable listed as a line item in the contract as a deliverable - as a final representation of the completed SD’s. Sometimes we lead-in with them if we needed to convince a client to let us go in a direction but we charged separately for the former. Are you getting paid for all these changes or is it all lumped into the fee percentage of your total SD package? You must be designing in 3D and at any point you just push a button (figuratively) and Voila rendering for the client.
Everything about that detail wall assembly is just bad. The reason i had first started this thread is because i had got undercut by this fool. He is supposedly giving everything to these potential clients that had already paid me a retainer fee of $1000. The whole project, renderings, cd's, ca, was going to just be 5.5% of total cost on a home that was going to cost them around 450k They told me like this "Keep the retainer fee, we are going with this guy and he's only charging $800 dollars for my 3,000 square foot home and that I was robbing them of their money. That the other guy told them that I was a crook and that CD's, CA, Renderings shouldn't cost more than $800 dollars. What the m f i had NO words!!! Clients just said that, and they hung up on me without hesitation.
Carrera its fairly common to use 3d models in SD that get updated as the design changes and yes you can basically push a button and get a fairly decent rendering with very little effort. It seems like it pretty much expected as part of the package anymore. If someone wants something more than a basic rendering like a flyby or super photo realistic rendering in high def we typically change for these services. As far as I know only the big guys (Gensler types) keep someone on staff that all they do is rendering and it seems like these guys aren't architects/interns. Most offices its just part of the new guys responsibility when they aren't drafting. When I did a lot of the models/renderings I could generate a decent model and rendering of a fairly large project in a day or two.
You should be happy - you are lucky to get the boot now rather than after you've got months of work invested. Not only was it probably the easiest $1,000 you've ever made (retainers are non-refundable) - they are going to lose their ass when it comes time to build. The very first error will cost them more than they "saved".
This isn't the first time some potential client comes to me and wants design, finds some draftsmen and does it for them, come to think, the last 2 that had that done, have had so many problems with their home being constructed. One of them went over budget, and the construction is at a stand still, been so like that for over 6 months when they had 8 months to build it....
Yes yes.... I might sound horrible for this but it sure makes me feel good...
You get what you pay for...your ex-clients are going to have a ton of change orders/headache on the project having some draftsman try to coordinate a set of CDs.
You either pay for it now, or pay for it later.
Tell them to watch out for any 12"x24"x1/2" steel angle ledgers...that will surely put the project over budget.
to answer some of the above, yes models are used through the design process. it's not just as something to present to a client, but for the designers to help visualize and think through different options before it's presented to the client. also, a model can help bring out potential problems to think through before they become real problems. it's kind of like letting the computer do part of the thinking things through.
i suppose one should separate spinning around a sketch-up model (i don't do sketch-up because i suppose i'm too old...), rendering something quick so you have something to look at, and developing a presentation quality rendering. we have had clients in the conference room while there was a sketch-up model on the tv, though that actually happens without me, so i'm not really sure what they're doing.
back in the day, i did have clients looking over my shoulder on my computer screen while i screwed with a 3dmax model. it wasn't common. that's kind of disconcerting. some things are quick and easy, some are not, but it all looks easy if you're just watching.
In my office (75ish people) we have one dedicated visualization guy, but most of the models are created by "designers" who are typically the younger folks who don't know enough to be useful in CD's.
shuellmi, they haven't contacted me, they seem to have ventured with that guy. In other news, I just snagged a new potential client that had drawings made by some 20 year old draftsmen that said I wasn't a "Certified Draftsman" lol. I couldn't help but laugh that, the 20 year old draftsman that finished some community college drew up some shitty plans for them in about 3 pages of 11x17's. The kid charged them about 1100 dollars for those plans and they were really disappointed, I took a glance at their drawings, they want some changes here and there and want everything else that should be in a proper set of CD's and also requested a full service. I quoted them 8% total cost and they will be getting back to me today. Hopefully all works out.
Now keep in mind, i'm not a Architect just yet, I'm literally a test away from being so, I work along side a Architect in my firm, my father, grandfather, grandmother were all Architects and I learned alot since I was around 12 years old until now 33.
Kramit, Words like “We’ll get back to you” and “Thank you for your time” were always Death Knells in my experience. Don’t wait too long; follow-up and tease them with a little sketch/idea to show your excitement and keen interest.
Kramit, actually I wouldn’t wait at all, you shouldn’t have let them leave without closing the sale. “Get back to me?” Why? What do they need to think about? If it has to do with getting a duck-in- line like financing or a decision to even do the project that needs time, but in sales you need to draw-out any hesitation/objection before they leave and answer the problem with a solution – its called “Overcoming the Objection” in sales. Of course with couples they do always need to talk privately to make the decision but that can happen in minutes on their way to McDonalds after the meeting. I would follow up today and simply say that you’ve been sketching around and are anxious to meet again to show your ideas and simply say “How about tomorrow at 5PM?” You have to get them back in the showroom and sell them that car…if they won’t then they will probably tell you why and if it’s not something that needs to wait you need to respond with something to “overcome the objection” then ask them again to come back to the dealership. If you don’t do this or they still won’t come then they have plans to visit other showrooms before they buy – then I’d do some sketching and get them to them somehow then once you know they have them then that’s the next opportunity to call. You have to keep pounding at these things.
The idea of mailing-it-in and waiting doesn’t work. Ask yourself how many opportunities for projects you qualify for in your market. Then look at who you are competing with and divide by that number. That yields the number you should be getting then look at that and you’ll see that it isn’t that many so every chance you get you’ve got to grab it - even if it takes pounding.
Carrera, Took your advice, I did sketch something out to begin with and they were impressed, made a quick perspective of their home and quick sketch of a floor plan, I called them and they needed more $$$. They just dropped off the retainer fee. =D They told me that they would come back with 25% to start on Monday.
Like that movie my kids watch and drives me crazy goes, EVERYTHING IS AWESOME.
i don't think chinese people are dumber or less skilled in any way than everyone else. they just have a different economy and possibly pirated software.
Sep 19, 14 9:32 pm ·
·
I don't think Chinese people are dumb but they won't detail according to our codes because they just don't know our codes.
The detail above is probably by some student or student-dropout or something not a Chinese firm. As for rendering, the art of rendering isn't about a race of photo realism. In fact, sometimes there is an ethos regarding rendering where you don't want to be too photorealistic because it is a claim you are making. Since the goal of any project is what is built is what you designed because that design is basically the promise you are making to the client that is what they are going to get. It's the premise of reasonably implied promise that is reasonably assumed to be expected when the implied claim of promise is made.
I usually don't do photorealistic rendering because that is not the degree of promise I want to make about the exact colors and its particular shade, the lighting conditions and how it would like everything is a sunny cloudless day. I don't like to give that.
I may use a SketchUp model with its quick rendering or I do a traditional rendering. In addition, in traditional hand drafted and traditional non-computer based designing, I would do this. With a good client, I will make a model to represent the environment. I really put a craft to my work that sometimes is not seen anymore.
Richard, Hand Sketches are priceless. A client is always Awed when you can quickly sketch a elevation or perspective right in front of their eyes. I always sketch a floorplan and elevation in front of them.
Craigslist WTF...
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/sks/4668043375.html
Here I am sitting down looking at another 10hr day of Revit thinking... maybe I should hire these guys to do some grunt work and I'll still make money.
not exactly sure how much revit costs, if its 5k it will take them 11 weeks to pay for the program
Here is what all you graduates have to look forward to, days of CL postings to the services board. Could be making that much at Jimmy Johns if you didn't quit to go to architecture school.
And I thought you were a millionaire Non Sequitur, all those billion dollar projects you have going on. You surely should be able to afford them, right?
millionaire? no, not even close but I'm not starving either. What's your point DeTwan?
Maybe the problem is with CAD - now anybody can draw. Have any of you worked in offices’ where drawing projects got shipped to India? 2 of 3 sons jumped ship when it started happening at their jobs….sparked an idea in 1 son who now has all his renderings done in Vietnam at $100. a pop then re-sells X10. In the few instances I know it never seems to work with CD’s, they always come back with problems and need to be constantly reworked.
Seem to remember some legal problem with this and firms hiring Canadian pass-thru’s that then hired in India. I was approached with this and while I listened politely I didn’t bite, just not me.
Carrera, the problem is from a number of different factors. The colleges ramped up enrollment over the past few decades on top of the downturns, bim allows anyone and everyone to become an 'architect'. The general public does not need an architect like say a lawyer. You could literally list off hundreds of factors. Vacant cheap housing can be found through out the US, yet get your second DUI and you might need one of these. Can anyone guess what that would be? I wonder what the factor is that made you drink so much?
Architecture is simply dead as we'd like to think of it. Once the student loan bubble pops here is several years, anyone not at the top in the architectural field will 'literally' be toeing the trigger.
I worked at a firm that used this method of shipping the redlines overseas at the end of the day and they would be ready by morning (india or china) The problem was it took half a day to check them and the rest of the day to fix mistakes. To me as a CAD monkey back then I could have done them myself in the same amount of time with much less headache.
In a race to the bottom, everyone loses.
robbmc,
However, you would cost upwards of TEN times as much given that you can by a $10 item (in the U.S.) for $1 in China for the same thing given its made in China these days.... anyway. There is a serious currency exchange problem.
That's another topic, altogether.
When your competitors are laying off local staff to contract cheap foreign labor to do the work then it is obvious what it's about.... to squeeze out a profit with a dropping price ceiling.
However, the question I have on this case is... the advertiser on Craiglist is probably a student at the nearby college/university charging such low prices because their cost of living is low and it is largely subsidized by student loans and grants and scholarships so the person doesn't need to charge so much not to mention that the person is not operating a business legally... ie. no business license at a location where such use is either not zoned for it OR the building's occupancy classification is not classified for such use nor is such a use being authorized by owner of property.
It is unlikely that someone who owns the building it is located in would run their business as such low prices at a professional standard because they don't make enough money to cover the expenses of such a use.
It's probably what it is. Oh well....
I don't think I was clear, it took as long to check them and make corrections as it would have taken me to do the actual red lines myself. So what ever they were paying the guys overseas was pretty much throwing money away. You also loose the ability of the person fixing red lines to identify other issues and correct them.
Ok.
bet these guys overseas are a lot more productive than many workers in the west ;)
Productive.... they maybe but they don't know jack sh-t about our local building codes and zoning regulations let alone understand it that a person that is trained and local here in the U.S. would already know and understand and do it right the first time with minimal errors.
There is one thing to be productive it is another thing to produce a bunch of junk that won't pass the local regulations. This is because foreign drafting services will often do not have familiarity with our codes nor looks at the codes as they are amended and adopted in the state having jurisdiction and the zoning regulations of the authorities having jurisdiction.
They just don't get the regulations because they don't live in the same regulatory environment. It's just plain different.
The renderings in the CL link are not professional, and seem like student works.
They misspelled nearly everything on their so-called wall assembly. Those drawings wouldn't even get you through a site plan application, let alone pass for CD. I pity the fool who hires these idiots.
isn't paraput the only one they spelled wrong?
do people use densglass for interior sheathing? i suppose dens glass should be one word, but it's separated with the capital letter in their logo. i would let that slide.
also, i suppose 3 layer plywood would be better stated as 3-ply, and even better stated with a thickness.
10.5" slab seems a bit much too.
I like the 12" by 24" slab angle.
Yep, 10.5" slab would be too thick and heavy for the support system which based on the connection detail would collapse. These boys don't even have a good sense of structural design & engineering.
Normally I would thought the support is stud based but WTF is going on in their heads that they would support a concrete slab as thick as a residential wall foundation. Wow.... the angle brackets connected to rigid foam.
Sorry, this is a death trap.
So many hopelessly stupid specifications that will never pass any building codes in the U.S.
Might pass the building codes of Haiti before that big earthquake some years ago. Oh, wait... they had virtually no building codes at all.
Check this out, just got this on my email…www.gravitasviz.com/…500 Bucks for a rendering and look at all that is included – and this guy is in Texas and his name - Marcus Moore doesn’t sound Indian to me. I see all this talk about rendering software and learning how to model/render and I don’t get it….why would you hire a guy in-house for $35k/yr to do this, that’s about 3 Grand a month which would be 5 renderings a month - who has that volume of work? I also don’t get computer rendering – trying to make a rendering look like a photograph – all of our renderings were water colors – where’s the music with these things?
carrera, people like to change things. when you do a water color rendering like that, it's pretty much done. that 35k a year (which is what fast food people make, not professionals) gives you someone that will keep changing the model as the design changes, and as the client asks for different options. with the computer, you don't have to start over every time. you just change the part that needs changing.
you can't outsource a rendering if you want to stand over someone's shoulder and constantly tweak it.
Curt, Understand, thanks.
Curt,
You never did renderings until you settle the design changes. The problem is constant changing and letting it happen instead of taking control of the situation.
You did one rendering at schematic and one at th ending phase of Design Development.
The construction documents won't have "renderings" in general. It will be orthographics.
You manage the project differently and you take more control of things and limit change orders. You let clients have time to decide... of course but you tell them you won't be taking anymore change orders by the client after a certain point in each phase. In other words, you need to manage the client a little bit and get them to settle and be decisive.
Curt, thought of some questions after I hung-up. So you are saying that you use the computer generated rendering as a design tool in the development of your SD’s? I’m not that far gone, retired in ’03, but a rendering was a deliverable listed as a line item in the contract as a deliverable - as a final representation of the completed SD’s. Sometimes we lead-in with them if we needed to convince a client to let us go in a direction but we charged separately for the former. Are you getting paid for all these changes or is it all lumped into the fee percentage of your total SD package? You must be designing in 3D and at any point you just push a button (figuratively) and Voila rendering for the client.
Everything about that detail wall assembly is just bad. The reason i had first started this thread is because i had got undercut by this fool. He is supposedly giving everything to these potential clients that had already paid me a retainer fee of $1000. The whole project, renderings, cd's, ca, was going to just be 5.5% of total cost on a home that was going to cost them around 450k They told me like this "Keep the retainer fee, we are going with this guy and he's only charging $800 dollars for my 3,000 square foot home and that I was robbing them of their money. That the other guy told them that I was a crook and that CD's, CA, Renderings shouldn't cost more than $800 dollars. What the m f i had NO words!!! Clients just said that, and they hung up on me without hesitation.
To say the least, I was infuriated.
Carrera its fairly common to use 3d models in SD that get updated as the design changes and yes you can basically push a button and get a fairly decent rendering with very little effort. It seems like it pretty much expected as part of the package anymore. If someone wants something more than a basic rendering like a flyby or super photo realistic rendering in high def we typically change for these services. As far as I know only the big guys (Gensler types) keep someone on staff that all they do is rendering and it seems like these guys aren't architects/interns. Most offices its just part of the new guys responsibility when they aren't drafting. When I did a lot of the models/renderings I could generate a decent model and rendering of a fairly large project in a day or two.
You should be happy - you are lucky to get the boot now rather than after you've got months of work invested. Not only was it probably the easiest $1,000 you've ever made (retainers are non-refundable) - they are going to lose their ass when it comes time to build. The very first error will cost them more than they "saved".
Kramit, Oh-boy, this is going to get all this house fee shit all started again. I here Richard entering the room.
Forgot to add, within that 5.5% it was this
10 Hard Copies of Renderings
1 Sketchup Walk through video
40+ pages of CD's
Cost Estimating
Bidding / Negotiation
Construction Administration
This isn't the first time some potential client comes to me and wants design, finds some draftsmen and does it for them, come to think, the last 2 that had that done, have had so many problems with their home being constructed. One of them went over budget, and the construction is at a stand still, been so like that for over 6 months when they had 8 months to build it....
Yes yes.... I might sound horrible for this but it sure makes me feel good...
Miles Jaffe, I was EXTREMELY happy. I had made 1000 bucks out of nothing. That was the best part of it all.
You get what you pay for...your ex-clients are going to have a ton of change orders/headache on the project having some draftsman try to coordinate a set of CDs.
You either pay for it now, or pay for it later.
Tell them to watch out for any 12"x24"x1/2" steel angle ledgers...that will surely put the project over budget.
Definitely get what u pay for.... someone once told me "garbage in, garbage out"....ya get what you give.....just sayin.
to answer some of the above, yes models are used through the design process. it's not just as something to present to a client, but for the designers to help visualize and think through different options before it's presented to the client. also, a model can help bring out potential problems to think through before they become real problems. it's kind of like letting the computer do part of the thinking things through.
i suppose one should separate spinning around a sketch-up model (i don't do sketch-up because i suppose i'm too old...), rendering something quick so you have something to look at, and developing a presentation quality rendering. we have had clients in the conference room while there was a sketch-up model on the tv, though that actually happens without me, so i'm not really sure what they're doing.
back in the day, i did have clients looking over my shoulder on my computer screen while i screwed with a 3dmax model. it wasn't common. that's kind of disconcerting. some things are quick and easy, some are not, but it all looks easy if you're just watching.
kramit,
Do those ex clients ever come back to you to finish the job or do they stick it out with the guy they know is incompetent?
In my office (75ish people) we have one dedicated visualization guy, but most of the models are created by "designers" who are typically the younger folks who don't know enough to be useful in CD's.
shuellmi, they haven't contacted me, they seem to have ventured with that guy. In other news, I just snagged a new potential client that had drawings made by some 20 year old draftsmen that said I wasn't a "Certified Draftsman" lol. I couldn't help but laugh that, the 20 year old draftsman that finished some community college drew up some shitty plans for them in about 3 pages of 11x17's. The kid charged them about 1100 dollars for those plans and they were really disappointed, I took a glance at their drawings, they want some changes here and there and want everything else that should be in a proper set of CD's and also requested a full service. I quoted them 8% total cost and they will be getting back to me today. Hopefully all works out.
Now keep in mind, i'm not a Architect just yet, I'm literally a test away from being so, I work along side a Architect in my firm, my father, grandfather, grandmother were all Architects and I learned alot since I was around 12 years old until now 33.
Kramit, Words like “We’ll get back to you” and “Thank you for your time” were always Death Knells in my experience. Don’t wait too long; follow-up and tease them with a little sketch/idea to show your excitement and keen interest.
Carrera, not a bad idea. What is your general wait time?
Kramit, actually I wouldn’t wait at all, you shouldn’t have let them leave without closing the sale. “Get back to me?” Why? What do they need to think about? If it has to do with getting a duck-in- line like financing or a decision to even do the project that needs time, but in sales you need to draw-out any hesitation/objection before they leave and answer the problem with a solution – its called “Overcoming the Objection” in sales. Of course with couples they do always need to talk privately to make the decision but that can happen in minutes on their way to McDonalds after the meeting. I would follow up today and simply say that you’ve been sketching around and are anxious to meet again to show your ideas and simply say “How about tomorrow at 5PM?” You have to get them back in the showroom and sell them that car…if they won’t then they will probably tell you why and if it’s not something that needs to wait you need to respond with something to “overcome the objection” then ask them again to come back to the dealership. If you don’t do this or they still won’t come then they have plans to visit other showrooms before they buy – then I’d do some sketching and get them to them somehow then once you know they have them then that’s the next opportunity to call. You have to keep pounding at these things.
The idea of mailing-it-in and waiting doesn’t work. Ask yourself how many opportunities for projects you qualify for in your market. Then look at who you are competing with and divide by that number. That yields the number you should be getting then look at that and you’ll see that it isn’t that many so every chance you get you’ve got to grab it - even if it takes pounding.
shuellmi - if you use revit...assuming you do or should in an office of 75 people...models are cd's
Carrera, Took your advice, I did sketch something out to begin with and they were impressed, made a quick perspective of their home and quick sketch of a floor plan, I called them and they needed more $$$. They just dropped off the retainer fee. =D They told me that they would come back with 25% to start on Monday.
Like that movie my kids watch and drives me crazy goes, EVERYTHING IS AWESOME.
(The Lego Movie)
Kramit, Great! Congratulations! Now reset the trap and snag another one….its a never-ending process
Yuck Carrera, there are chinese firms that do much better renders than the garbage you just showed us.
Sameolddoctor, I didn’t say it was World-Class – show me, show me some Chinese music and maybe I’ll sing.
i don't think chinese people are dumber or less skilled in any way than everyone else. they just have a different economy and possibly pirated software.
I don't think Chinese people are dumb but they won't detail according to our codes because they just don't know our codes.
The detail above is probably by some student or student-dropout or something not a Chinese firm. As for rendering, the art of rendering isn't about a race of photo realism. In fact, sometimes there is an ethos regarding rendering where you don't want to be too photorealistic because it is a claim you are making. Since the goal of any project is what is built is what you designed because that design is basically the promise you are making to the client that is what they are going to get. It's the premise of reasonably implied promise that is reasonably assumed to be expected when the implied claim of promise is made.
I usually don't do photorealistic rendering because that is not the degree of promise I want to make about the exact colors and its particular shade, the lighting conditions and how it would like everything is a sunny cloudless day. I don't like to give that.
I may use a SketchUp model with its quick rendering or I do a traditional rendering. In addition, in traditional hand drafted and traditional non-computer based designing, I would do this. With a good client, I will make a model to represent the environment. I really put a craft to my work that sometimes is not seen anymore.
Richard, Hand Sketches are priceless. A client is always Awed when you can quickly sketch a elevation or perspective right in front of their eyes. I always sketch a floorplan and elevation in front of them.
Carrera, Yes, thank you man. I got another call from a potential client today, I tend to get them daily now. Advertising works.
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