After a 3 solid years and a bachelors degree to boot, it's time to retire my trusty ol' laptop. A master's degree needs a masters grade computer.
I've been speaking to the IT tech at work, he believes it'd be better to buy a premade one from HP - Z230 Tower or Acer - Predator G and upgrading the components as necessary. This is based on the idea, that the components are all pre-made to 'talk' to each other better, and stuffing in an extra 8gb of ram is harmless. His logic is good, and has helped me exponentially.
However, I've been playing around looking at components for a build and have come up with the following:
Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($299.98 @ SuperBiiz) Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.99 @ Newegg) Corsair Vengeance 32GB (8 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($369.99 @ Amazon) Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($79.99 @ NCIX US) GeForce GTX 770 2GB Superclocked ACX Video Card ($319.99 @ Micro Center) Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg) Corsair Professional 750W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($149.95 @ Amazon) Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC) Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($141.26 @ OutletPC) Total: $1483.12
I know that I'll be using lots of 3d programs such as Max and Revit and will preferentially need a great CPU, lots of ram (thus 32gb) and only secondly need a 3d Graphics Card to move towards real-time rendering.
Thought this would be a good place for people with experience in our field to help point me in the right direction to either building, and furthermore critiquing/helping me trim the fat on my proposal or direct me to a pre-made computer and then the upgrades needed to achieve that.
You forgot the motherboard. Judging by the components, it'll add another $150 or $200. Could cheap out but it'll need some adjustments across the board if you decide to.
There's a Lenovo server with a Xeon quad-core (no different than your i7 except slightly slower) for like $350 if you catch the deal. Pop in a GPU and you get fine performance for around $500. Cannot overclock but it'll be stable and have enough room to upgrade. Dell Outlet has good deals, usually just requiring a memory boost.
The other thing to consider is a hex-core on the LGA2011 platform. Around the same mid/high-end price range but two added cores which should boost applications still hungry for CPU processing power. i7-5820K, $389 MSRP. You can drop down on the GPU and put it towards cores instead.
Skip the spinning hard drive and pay more to get a solid state drive. 256GB should hold enough for daily usage and you can always add a secondary spinner later. Don't gimp your machine. I'd just invest in a NAS or external backup storage (USB drives work) instead of putting everything into one big basket.
What you build yourself you service. The pros of a pre-made system is having someone else worry about fixing your downtime fast. The cons is paying for that service but it's a compromise and not necessarily a bad thing if downtime is intolerable.
I wasn't able to edit this in on time: the IT logic given is flawed. Self-builds "talk" just as well, the only difference is that you know where the main parts are from (brands) and you skip HP or Dell's restrictions and limitations on the motherboard. They talk better if you pre-configure once and let them guarantee that but future upgrades are not always compatible. With individual parts you can at least take the guesswork out of compatibility by looking it up online.
If I had a business, I'm certainly not going to build things myself and will just pay HP or someone for their products and services. As a student, you can afford the occasional downtime and the savings can buy another laptop or pay off some tuition costs.
You can buy the Crucial MX100 512GB for around the price of the 850 Pro or the same amount for half the price. Samsung does have great absolute performance but for daily use and since you're not a server or machine, it won't matter all that much. They are selling 10 years of endurance but you're likely to ditch this machine before any NAND made within last three years actually wears out completely.
The motherboard you listed has a M.2 and SATA Express slot. It'll cost more to jump onto this still emerging interface but you can get about twice the read performance. Does it matter? Not really since you can simply RAID two drives and get the same results. Tossing it out there.
Nvidia has better drivers and software but ATI has far more competitive workstation cards for the price. You can probably hold off and suffice with a 750TI that's around a hundred bucks and has enough CUDA cores if you ever need GPU acceleration.
Gauge if the price premium for the hex-cores is worth it (Anandtech review). I'm giddy over new parts as much as the next geek but bear in mind these processor increases are only like two or three seconds faster. Eternity for a machine, contemplation of bathroom break or yawn for humans.
Not a fan of my GeForce graphics (GTX 710ti w/ 2GB)
i much preferred the AMD cards for heavy CAD work that were in my previous work machine. Personal preference, though.
i have run FirePro's, AMD Gaming cards (HD7000 series), Quadros, and GeForce. as a whole i greatly prefer AMD's stability. the new FirePro's look amazing, but havent had a chance to work with one yet. a Radeon R9 or HD7000-8000 would be my choice.
I have an intel K-series processor and it has shown great stability in overclocking, but it does have a water-based cooling system. would highly recommend it if you plan on overclocking.
GT 710 is based on a really low-end chip. Did you mean to say the GTX 760 Ti?
Nvidia has the cash to really plow effort into their Quadro drivers; AMD seem be deriving their gaming drivers to suit specific pro apps. It all depends on the programs used and workflow (check this review). For a student, eh, buy the cheaper faster one.
Thanks Bugsmetoo and Archanonymous thanks for all your help. I've decided to go with the Radeon HD 7950. Looks fairly good value for the price, and ultimately - my build will be primarily focused on CPU.
Speaking of which, still a little unsure whether I go for the HEX Core or build with the i7-4790k as a base. The added premium for the Hex seems to be worth it - but I'm a little antsy forking out huge amounts of money for DDR4 ram - as everything review I've read states, "As DDR4 matures...." which to me reads as 'the technology is still in it's teething phase'. Thoughts?
DDR4 isn't too bad since DDR3 started rising in price. The performance from the two cores gained is sometimes negated by the 4Ghz stock clock of the 4790K.
It's easy to buy into technological promises only to end up with buyer's remorse. If you want the hex-cores at a premium, it is a justified cost that probably won't destroy you later. But if you feel yourself making hypothetical situations trying to reason yourself into what-if cases, maybe just stick with the i7 and upgrade when mainstream hex-cores hit in a few years.
Bugs... Just checked. Yeah its an Evga GTX 760 to, over clocked a bit.
Regardless, I still prefer the AMD graphics.
Nick, will you be running alot of multi-core CPU based rendering programs?
For my particular workflow, I prefer to run a high-clock with less cores. Rhino, Grasshopper, many FE solvers, simulation programs, etc are only written to run on one core. For me, a higher clock is better, and the price is right on the current K-series chips.
I agree with your that about remorse, been there a few times. Ultimately it'll be a little bit of a gamble, but it's not going to break the bank. Ultimately it'll only be a ~$200/$300 difference between a HEX and 4790k build.
Archanonymous
I'll be using v-ray out of both Rhino + Max and would anticipate that tweaking the settings to take full advantage of cores would be the most efficient way to render. However, your statement about rhino + grasshopper now makes me question that.....Decisions, decisions.
I guess the one thing I've learnt from this - no one build works for everyone - which is quite representative of architecture as a whole. Nice little metaphor there.
Sep 8, 14 2:16 am ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
Masters computer
After a 3 solid years and a bachelors degree to boot, it's time to retire my trusty ol' laptop. A master's degree needs a masters grade computer.
I've been speaking to the IT tech at work, he believes it'd be better to buy a premade one from HP - Z230 Tower or Acer - Predator G and upgrading the components as necessary. This is based on the idea, that the components are all pre-made to 'talk' to each other better, and stuffing in an extra 8gb of ram is harmless. His logic is good, and has helped me exponentially.
However, I've been playing around looking at components for a build and have come up with the following:
Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($299.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Corsair Vengeance 32GB (8 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($369.99 @ Amazon)
Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($79.99 @ NCIX US)
GeForce GTX 770 2GB Superclocked ACX Video Card ($319.99 @ Micro Center)
Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Corsair Professional 750W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($149.95 @ Amazon)
Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC)
Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($141.26 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1483.12
I know that I'll be using lots of 3d programs such as Max and Revit and will preferentially need a great CPU, lots of ram (thus 32gb) and only secondly need a 3d Graphics Card to move towards real-time rendering.
Thought this would be a good place for people with experience in our field to help point me in the right direction to either building, and furthermore critiquing/helping me trim the fat on my proposal or direct me to a pre-made computer and then the upgrades needed to achieve that.
Thanks all.
You forgot the motherboard. Judging by the components, it'll add another $150 or $200. Could cheap out but it'll need some adjustments across the board if you decide to.
There's a Lenovo server with a Xeon quad-core (no different than your i7 except slightly slower) for like $350 if you catch the deal. Pop in a GPU and you get fine performance for around $500. Cannot overclock but it'll be stable and have enough room to upgrade. Dell Outlet has good deals, usually just requiring a memory boost.
The other thing to consider is a hex-core on the LGA2011 platform. Around the same mid/high-end price range but two added cores which should boost applications still hungry for CPU processing power. i7-5820K, $389 MSRP. You can drop down on the GPU and put it towards cores instead.
Skip the spinning hard drive and pay more to get a solid state drive. 256GB should hold enough for daily usage and you can always add a secondary spinner later. Don't gimp your machine. I'd just invest in a NAS or external backup storage (USB drives work) instead of putting everything into one big basket.
What you build yourself you service. The pros of a pre-made system is having someone else worry about fixing your downtime fast. The cons is paying for that service but it's a compromise and not necessarily a bad thing if downtime is intolerable.
I wasn't able to edit this in on time: the IT logic given is flawed. Self-builds "talk" just as well, the only difference is that you know where the main parts are from (brands) and you skip HP or Dell's restrictions and limitations on the motherboard. They talk better if you pre-configure once and let them guarantee that but future upgrades are not always compatible. With individual parts you can at least take the guesswork out of compatibility by looking it up online.
If I had a business, I'm certainly not going to build things myself and will just pay HP or someone for their products and services. As a student, you can afford the occasional downtime and the savings can buy another laptop or pay off some tuition costs.
Bugsmetoo,
Apologies for the lack of motherboard - was playing around and obviously deleted it.
I've had some feedback re the build and was interested on your opinion given their suggestion on the hex processor and storage suggestions.
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor ($389.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC14PE_BK 78.1 CFM CPU Cooler ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI X99S SLI Plus ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($228.79 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($202.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($198.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($79.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($97.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (32/64-bit) ($94.99 @ B&H)
Total: $1465.68
Ultimately I need to find a GPU which isn't completely dedicated to gaming - and more workstation inclined.
Thanks for your help
You can buy the Crucial MX100 512GB for around the price of the 850 Pro or the same amount for half the price. Samsung does have great absolute performance but for daily use and since you're not a server or machine, it won't matter all that much. They are selling 10 years of endurance but you're likely to ditch this machine before any NAND made within last three years actually wears out completely.
The motherboard you listed has a M.2 and SATA Express slot. It'll cost more to jump onto this still emerging interface but you can get about twice the read performance. Does it matter? Not really since you can simply RAID two drives and get the same results. Tossing it out there.
Nvidia has better drivers and software but ATI has far more competitive workstation cards for the price. You can probably hold off and suffice with a 750TI that's around a hundred bucks and has enough CUDA cores if you ever need GPU acceleration.
Gauge if the price premium for the hex-cores is worth it (Anandtech review). I'm giddy over new parts as much as the next geek but bear in mind these processor increases are only like two or three seconds faster. Eternity for a machine, contemplation of bathroom break or yawn for humans.
Not a fan of my GeForce graphics (GTX 710ti w/ 2GB) i much preferred the AMD cards for heavy CAD work that were in my previous work machine. Personal preference, though. i have run FirePro's, AMD Gaming cards (HD7000 series), Quadros, and GeForce. as a whole i greatly prefer AMD's stability. the new FirePro's look amazing, but havent had a chance to work with one yet. a Radeon R9 or HD7000-8000 would be my choice. I have an intel K-series processor and it has shown great stability in overclocking, but it does have a water-based cooling system. would highly recommend it if you plan on overclocking.
GT 710 is based on a really low-end chip. Did you mean to say the GTX 760 Ti?
Nvidia has the cash to really plow effort into their Quadro drivers; AMD seem be deriving their gaming drivers to suit specific pro apps. It all depends on the programs used and workflow (check this review). For a student, eh, buy the cheaper faster one.
Thanks Bugsmetoo and Archanonymous thanks for all your help. I've decided to go with the Radeon HD 7950. Looks fairly good value for the price, and ultimately - my build will be primarily focused on CPU.
Speaking of which, still a little unsure whether I go for the HEX Core or build with the i7-4790k as a base. The added premium for the Hex seems to be worth it - but I'm a little antsy forking out huge amounts of money for DDR4 ram - as everything review I've read states, "As DDR4 matures...." which to me reads as 'the technology is still in it's teething phase'. Thoughts?
DDR4 isn't too bad since DDR3 started rising in price. The performance from the two cores gained is sometimes negated by the 4Ghz stock clock of the 4790K.
It's easy to buy into technological promises only to end up with buyer's remorse. If you want the hex-cores at a premium, it is a justified cost that probably won't destroy you later. But if you feel yourself making hypothetical situations trying to reason yourself into what-if cases, maybe just stick with the i7 and upgrade when mainstream hex-cores hit in a few years.
Bugs... Just checked. Yeah its an Evga GTX 760 to, over clocked a bit.
Regardless, I still prefer the AMD graphics.
Nick, will you be running alot of multi-core CPU based rendering programs?
For my particular workflow, I prefer to run a high-clock with less cores. Rhino, Grasshopper, many FE solvers, simulation programs, etc are only written to run on one core. For me, a higher clock is better, and the price is right on the current K-series chips.
Bugsmetoo,
I agree with your that about remorse, been there a few times. Ultimately it'll be a little bit of a gamble, but it's not going to break the bank. Ultimately it'll only be a ~$200/$300 difference between a HEX and 4790k build.
Archanonymous
I'll be using v-ray out of both Rhino + Max and would anticipate that tweaking the settings to take full advantage of cores would be the most efficient way to render. However, your statement about rhino + grasshopper now makes me question that.....Decisions, decisions.
I guess the one thing I've learnt from this - no one build works for everyone - which is quite representative of architecture as a whole. Nice little metaphor there.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.