I'm choosing between the GSD and the Rice School of Architecture for a MArch degree. I have not received any financial aid from the GSD (annual rate of $59 k), but Rice has offered me a full scholarship. Also the GSD is a 3.5 year program and Rice is only 2.5 years. Any suggestions? THANKS!
You would come out of school with over $200K in debt at GSD? That's a bad deal mate... even if the economy bounced back to 2007 levels. Rice is a great school -- to me this would be a no-brainer.
Texas I think. I'm from Texas, that's why I am thinking Harvard would be good to gain some diversity. A Harvard degree also pulls more weight in Texas (I believe) as opposed to the East Coast that is saturated with Ivey league architects. Or is my thinking all wrong?
Not sure I'd agree that Harvard carries a lot of weight down there. Some folks in TX are pretty skeptical about the 'liberal northeastern establishment'.
Rather than guess, I suggest you do some research - ask around in Dallas, Houson and a few other of the larger cities. While it'd be great exposure to go to school in Boston, 'expensive' vs. 'free' would be hard to justify unless money's not an issue for you.
I agree - Rice is a very good school and I don't see a degree from there holding you back in Texas.
harvard seems the obvious choice. But Rice seems to have some very interesting faculty as of the last few years. Plus, it seems the city could be considered the contemporary American post-sprawl urbanity par excellence.
lol, I'm sure that a full ride to Tulane will get you in a better position in the long run than a 200k debt from Harvard. My goodness! It's a design degree, not an Medical degree. Why do these kids come on here asking these questions.
I love the GSD and am truly having the time of my life here (and learning a few things), but it is a shit-ton of money if they're not offering any aid. The GSD will open certain doors that Rice might not, but having less debt at Rice will give you more options when you graduate, so that opens doors in another way. It's a tough decision, and a very personal one. My advice is: deliberate, then decide based on your gut instinct, and don't look back.
no brainer - rice. great school, great faculty, full-ride. i'm surprised you are even debating this. i think the gsd grads posting on this thread are making the decision harder than it needs to be.
Why do these kids come on here asking these questions.
Because certain schools want to perpetuate the myth that they are worth going deep into six figure debt for. If you do choose Harvard put as much effort into networking as you do your studies because that is largely what you are paying for.
free degree vs decades of being owned by your school debt...tough choice
You're kidding, right? Unless you have multi-millionaire parents, it's an obvious choice. In 5 years GSD will just be a tiny little line on your resume...one that employers probably won't even look at. It's hardly worth $200K, especially considering architects don't make that much money.
Rice... I agree staying out of debt is more important...
Especially in this field...
If you really want Harvard on your resume.. after the 2.5 years at Rice, go back for a 1 year post prof degree... It will even be much much cheaper in the long run then going 3.5 years at harvard...
I turned down the Ivies to attend Rice with the full tuition waiver, and I would not change a thing about my decision. What amazes me is how stingy Harvard is with their money. In terms of endowment per student they're right behind Rice, and everyone I know that attended Harvard or Columbia comes out with a minimum $100k in debt. What are they doing with all that cash? Rice is very generous with tuition and travel grants.
My advice is do the math on how long it will take to pay that huge loan back. Do the math on how that payment will affect your standard of living over the next thirty years - especially during your early career when you might be starting a family, trying to buy a house, or trying to move abroad to work for one of those architects you met at Harvard - $500 to $600 per month is a big chunk of a young architect's take home salary. Then ask yourself if Harvard’s intangibles are worth it. Keep in mind Rice has them as well. Harvard might open more doors to the glamorous firms only because there is a higher concentration of Starchitects in the northeast, but Rice is highly respected by those same firms, and equally respected by deans and department heads in academia.
Congratulations on your acceptance to Rice. It’s excessively competitive – more so than the numbers that you’ll find online.
I'm having the same problem. Rice gives half tuition waiver and RA, and Harvard $10,000 so a lot of debt. But I'm leaning toward GSD, though. I might be stupid but :(
I think OP's question just outdid the Columbia vs Upenn thread on insanity :)
Not only should you take the full ride to Rice, which is just as a respectable degree outside of the Northeast and International crowd, you should write a letter to Harvard asking how many idiots they lure in every year that pays the full 59K, and ask them why they think their degree is worth full tuition more than one from Rice.
Rice on a full scholarship IMHO. Easy choice. Great school, local and nationally recognized. The IVY league name is only as good as the work that you produce while there... Come out of school without debt is invaluable once you start your career, and you can get the same job for the same pay upon graduation... In the beginning it is your portfolio that counts, so just do good work in school.
Rice is also a smaller program I believe so may mean more attention, and working closer with profs and peers.
Once you are out if school, teaching aside, it's more important where you have worked and what you have done than what school you studied at, I know of a guy who us a great architect, good designer who graduated from Rice and is doing good work in Seattle, but I haven't met a harvard graduate in Seattle...
I'm not sure th IVY league name carries as much weight on the west coast or other regions as on the East coast maybe... Not sure... Or maybe they just don't head out this way... Regional schools I think are stronger locally...
Rice on a full scholarship IMHO. Easy choice. Great school, local and nationally recognized. The IVY league name is only as good as the work that you produce while there... Come out of school without debt is invaluable once you start your career, and you can get the same job for the same pay upon graduation... In the beginning it is your portfolio that counts, so just do good work in school.
Rice is also a smaller program I believe so may mean more attention, and working closer with profs and peers.
Once you are out if school, teaching aside, it's more important where you have worked and what you have done than what school you studied at, I know of a guy who us a great architect, good designer who graduated from Rice and is doing good work in Seattle, but I haven't met a harvard graduate in Seattle...
I'm not sure th IVY league name carries as much weight on the west coast or other regions as on the East coast maybe... Not sure... Or maybe they just don't head out this way... Regional schools I think are stronger locally...
I agree, the Harvard line is one line on your resume upon graduation... And most employers will glaze over that and look to your work experience, skills, and work samples, portfolio, etc.
Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. I wonder what the feedback would have been like if I just asked for a comparison of the two schools, regardless of the financial limitations of either?
All else being equal, I'd still go to Rice, primarily because of the extra year penalty at the GSD.
IMO, an extra year in your 20s to crank out IDP/AREs is super critical. Most of my GSD friends weren't registered until their 30s, whereas my state school friends were registered in their mid to late 20s.
In your analysis, you should also add in the lost income of that extra year.
Rice:
-$0 (tuition) x 2.5 years + $50k (salary in year 3) = +$50k (net worth)
GSD:
-$38k (tuition) x 3.5 + $0 (salary in year 3) = -$-133k (net worth, not including interest on your massive student loans)
To put it bluntly, you will be at least $200k richer by going to Rice, and with no debt, you'll have much better post-grad professional flexibility.
Do you want to work for a starchitect? Do you want to start your own office? Do you want to invest in real estate? Do you want to take a random year off and sketch zumthor buildings? Those possibilities die when you have to write a $1000 check to Fannie Mae every month.
jesus fuming christ go to rice. i assume you don't have an undergraduate degree in architecture, so this will be your first light. take the ride. and the extra year you'll save by going to rice. when you graduate top of your class, THEN apply to harvard for another degree if you love it so much.
You're right Harvard has a much, much higher endowment, but also many more students, so endowment per student, (or available money to spend on students), is higher at other schools.
Does it matter? They have either almost as much as Rice or twice as much per student than Rice. Saying they have more money at Harvard only emphasizes my point. If a well known research school like Rice can afford to pay their students tuition, then why can't Harvard?
As previously discussed via text, go to Rice. The end.
As Josh told me "Whatever decision you make will be a good one. You're not deciding between terrible schools. When the decision is made you just need to jump in feet first and don't let the what-if's hold you back"
Rice may have free tuition, but you'll probably have to take out $17-20K per year for living expenses. The $59K stated for Harvard is a full cost of attendance (ie. including $20K in living expenses), so you should only really be comparing the $39K tuition for Harvard.
Also, I find it hard to believe that you received no financial aid from Harvard. If you did, then you're only really looking at the tuition differential between the two schools.
I'm in a similar boat. I got full rides from Berkeley and UCLA, and a great scholarship from Penn, but though they have higher price tags, there are Yale and Harvard as well. I got $25K per year in financial aid from Harvard (possibly up to $30K), and Yale seems willing to match that offer. That means that, since I'll be taking out loans for living expenses at any of the schools, I'm really only looking at anywhere from $9-14K extra per year to go to one of these institutions, which to me sounds worth it.
Rice is a great school though, so you have a good choices regardless.
I was faced with the same choice a number of years ago (pre-2008 financial meltdown). I decided on the GSD thinking that it would ultimately pay off in the end, despite the mountain of money I had to borrow - it is an investment for future gains, right?
Sure, the GSD degree, along with my portfolio, got me into the office of my choice, but at what cost? More debt. Let's not kid ourselves here. It is common knowledge that most of the offices you may dream to work for pay pennies for 100+ hour work weeks.
After being out of work for over a year as a result of 2008, my financial situation is dire.
So, Rice or Harvard? Think long and hard before you mortgage your future away. I regret my decision daily...
Apr 12, 11 8:26 pm ·
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Harvard or Rice?
I'm choosing between the GSD and the Rice School of Architecture for a MArch degree. I have not received any financial aid from the GSD (annual rate of $59 k), but Rice has offered me a full scholarship. Also the GSD is a 3.5 year program and Rice is only 2.5 years. Any suggestions? THANKS!
Where do you want to practice after graduation?
You would come out of school with over $200K in debt at GSD? That's a bad deal mate... even if the economy bounced back to 2007 levels. Rice is a great school -- to me this would be a no-brainer.
Texas I think. I'm from Texas, that's why I am thinking Harvard would be good to gain some diversity. A Harvard degree also pulls more weight in Texas (I believe) as opposed to the East Coast that is saturated with Ivey league architects. Or is my thinking all wrong?
Not sure I'd agree that Harvard carries a lot of weight down there. Some folks in TX are pretty skeptical about the 'liberal northeastern establishment'.
Rather than guess, I suggest you do some research - ask around in Dallas, Houson and a few other of the larger cities. While it'd be great exposure to go to school in Boston, 'expensive' vs. 'free' would be hard to justify unless money's not an issue for you.
I agree - Rice is a very good school and I don't see a degree from there holding you back in Texas.
harvard seems the obvious choice. But Rice seems to have some very interesting faculty as of the last few years. Plus, it seems the city could be considered the contemporary American post-sprawl urbanity par excellence.
See "an excercise on $$$" thread. Unbelievable that you would turn down a full Rice scholarship to go to anywhere else.
Cool ... I was able to go back to my 10:17 post on April 6 above and fix a typo. (corrected on Monday, April 11)
lol, I'm sure that a full ride to Tulane will get you in a better position in the long run than a 200k debt from Harvard. My goodness! It's a design degree, not an Medical degree. Why do these kids come on here asking these questions.
I love the GSD and am truly having the time of my life here (and learning a few things), but it is a shit-ton of money if they're not offering any aid. The GSD will open certain doors that Rice might not, but having less debt at Rice will give you more options when you graduate, so that opens doors in another way. It's a tough decision, and a very personal one. My advice is: deliberate, then decide based on your gut instinct, and don't look back.
no brainer - rice. great school, great faculty, full-ride. i'm surprised you are even debating this. i think the gsd grads posting on this thread are making the decision harder than it needs to be.
Easy choice - Rice w/full scholarship
Five years after you graduate, you will realize the wisdom of this decision.
Because certain schools want to perpetuate the myth that they are worth going deep into six figure debt for. If you do choose Harvard put as much effort into networking as you do your studies because that is largely what you are paying for.
free degree vs decades of being owned by your school debt...tough choice
You're kidding, right? Unless you have multi-millionaire parents, it's an obvious choice. In 5 years GSD will just be a tiny little line on your resume...one that employers probably won't even look at. It's hardly worth $200K, especially considering architects don't make that much money.
Rice... I agree staying out of debt is more important...
Especially in this field...
If you really want Harvard on your resume.. after the 2.5 years at Rice, go back for a 1 year post prof degree... It will even be much much cheaper in the long run then going 3.5 years at harvard...
I turned down the Ivies to attend Rice with the full tuition waiver, and I would not change a thing about my decision. What amazes me is how stingy Harvard is with their money. In terms of endowment per student they're right behind Rice, and everyone I know that attended Harvard or Columbia comes out with a minimum $100k in debt. What are they doing with all that cash? Rice is very generous with tuition and travel grants.
My advice is do the math on how long it will take to pay that huge loan back. Do the math on how that payment will affect your standard of living over the next thirty years - especially during your early career when you might be starting a family, trying to buy a house, or trying to move abroad to work for one of those architects you met at Harvard - $500 to $600 per month is a big chunk of a young architect's take home salary. Then ask yourself if Harvard’s intangibles are worth it. Keep in mind Rice has them as well. Harvard might open more doors to the glamorous firms only because there is a higher concentration of Starchitects in the northeast, but Rice is highly respected by those same firms, and equally respected by deans and department heads in academia.
Congratulations on your acceptance to Rice. It’s excessively competitive – more so than the numbers that you’ll find online.
I'm having the same problem. Rice gives half tuition waiver and RA, and Harvard $10,000 so a lot of debt. But I'm leaning toward GSD, though. I might be stupid but :(
I think OP's question just outdid the Columbia vs Upenn thread on insanity :)
Not only should you take the full ride to Rice, which is just as a respectable degree outside of the Northeast and International crowd, you should write a letter to Harvard asking how many idiots they lure in every year that pays the full 59K, and ask them why they think their degree is worth full tuition more than one from Rice.
"In terms of endowment per student they're right behind Rice"
Harvard: $1,297,041
Rice: $580,243
And that's down from $1,900,000 in 2008.
Rice on a full scholarship IMHO. Easy choice. Great school, local and nationally recognized. The IVY league name is only as good as the work that you produce while there... Come out of school without debt is invaluable once you start your career, and you can get the same job for the same pay upon graduation... In the beginning it is your portfolio that counts, so just do good work in school.
Rice is also a smaller program I believe so may mean more attention, and working closer with profs and peers.
Once you are out if school, teaching aside, it's more important where you have worked and what you have done than what school you studied at, I know of a guy who us a great architect, good designer who graduated from Rice and is doing good work in Seattle, but I haven't met a harvard graduate in Seattle...
I'm not sure th IVY league name carries as much weight on the west coast or other regions as on the East coast maybe... Not sure... Or maybe they just don't head out this way... Regional schools I think are stronger locally...
Rice on a full scholarship IMHO. Easy choice. Great school, local and nationally recognized. The IVY league name is only as good as the work that you produce while there... Come out of school without debt is invaluable once you start your career, and you can get the same job for the same pay upon graduation... In the beginning it is your portfolio that counts, so just do good work in school.
Rice is also a smaller program I believe so may mean more attention, and working closer with profs and peers.
Once you are out if school, teaching aside, it's more important where you have worked and what you have done than what school you studied at, I know of a guy who us a great architect, good designer who graduated from Rice and is doing good work in Seattle, but I haven't met a harvard graduate in Seattle...
I'm not sure th IVY league name carries as much weight on the west coast or other regions as on the East coast maybe... Not sure... Or maybe they just don't head out this way... Regional schools I think are stronger locally...
Sorry double post... IPhone acting up
You also have to consider extracurricular activities.
At Rice, you'll go cow-tipping actual cows.
At Harvard, you'll go cow-tipping red sox fans.
Red Sox cows bite back! Owchies.
I agree, the Harvard line is one line on your resume upon graduation... And most employers will glaze over that and look to your work experience, skills, and work samples, portfolio, etc.
Agreed!
Don't get bitten by a bean cow.
Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. I wonder what the feedback would have been like if I just asked for a comparison of the two schools, regardless of the financial limitations of either?
All else being equal, I'd still go to Rice, primarily because of the extra year penalty at the GSD.
IMO, an extra year in your 20s to crank out IDP/AREs is super critical. Most of my GSD friends weren't registered until their 30s, whereas my state school friends were registered in their mid to late 20s.
In your analysis, you should also add in the lost income of that extra year.
Rice:
-$0 (tuition) x 2.5 years + $50k (salary in year 3) = +$50k (net worth)
GSD:
-$38k (tuition) x 3.5 + $0 (salary in year 3) = -$-133k (net worth, not including interest on your massive student loans)
To put it bluntly, you will be at least $200k richer by going to Rice, and with no debt, you'll have much better post-grad professional flexibility.
Do you want to work for a starchitect? Do you want to start your own office? Do you want to invest in real estate? Do you want to take a random year off and sketch zumthor buildings? Those possibilities die when you have to write a $1000 check to Fannie Mae every month.
Rice.
You do not want 200k in debt on a shitty salary.
Also, if prestige matters to you, a "full-scholarship at Rice" sounds just as good, if not better than "GSD graduate" on your resume.
There are tons of GSD graduates out there; a student with a full ride at Rice sounds exceptional to me.
Unlees you're already independently wealthy, this would seem like a no brainer. Perhaps there are other factors you are not including/reporting here.
Rice
For as many opportunities as an Ivy degree gets you, there are just as many that it closes- employers tend to have a love/ hate relationship.
And no debt? Can you not think of anything to do with an extra $1000-$1300 a month?
If you are trust funded or independently wealthy, hell, do either.
jesus fuming christ go to rice. i assume you don't have an undergraduate degree in architecture, so this will be your first light. take the ride. and the extra year you'll save by going to rice. when you graduate top of your class, THEN apply to harvard for another degree if you love it so much.
to St. George:
The numbers I've read were different, but that only makes Harvard more greedy.
sour grapes stink.
to St. George:
The numbers I've read were different, but that only makes Harvard more greedy.
...
How were the numbers you read different? Harvard always has been the wealthiest school in the world for quite some time.
200k?
"Good lord, that's a lot of money. don't you like RICE?"
The numbers I saw were pre-recession.
You're right Harvard has a much, much higher endowment, but also many more students, so endowment per student, (or available money to spend on students), is higher at other schools.
Does it matter? They have either almost as much as Rice or twice as much per student than Rice. Saying they have more money at Harvard only emphasizes my point. If a well known research school like Rice can afford to pay their students tuition, then why can't Harvard?
Dear studio mate,
As previously discussed via text, go to Rice. The end.
As Josh told me "Whatever decision you make will be a good one. You're not deciding between terrible schools. When the decision is made you just need to jump in feet first and don't let the what-if's hold you back"
The math is a little shaky across the board.
Rice may have free tuition, but you'll probably have to take out $17-20K per year for living expenses. The $59K stated for Harvard is a full cost of attendance (ie. including $20K in living expenses), so you should only really be comparing the $39K tuition for Harvard.
Also, I find it hard to believe that you received no financial aid from Harvard. If you did, then you're only really looking at the tuition differential between the two schools.
I'm in a similar boat. I got full rides from Berkeley and UCLA, and a great scholarship from Penn, but though they have higher price tags, there are Yale and Harvard as well. I got $25K per year in financial aid from Harvard (possibly up to $30K), and Yale seems willing to match that offer. That means that, since I'll be taking out loans for living expenses at any of the schools, I'm really only looking at anywhere from $9-14K extra per year to go to one of these institutions, which to me sounds worth it.
Rice is a great school though, so you have a good choices regardless.
I was faced with the same choice a number of years ago (pre-2008 financial meltdown). I decided on the GSD thinking that it would ultimately pay off in the end, despite the mountain of money I had to borrow - it is an investment for future gains, right?
Sure, the GSD degree, along with my portfolio, got me into the office of my choice, but at what cost? More debt. Let's not kid ourselves here. It is common knowledge that most of the offices you may dream to work for pay pennies for 100+ hour work weeks.
After being out of work for over a year as a result of 2008, my financial situation is dire.
So, Rice or Harvard? Think long and hard before you mortgage your future away. I regret my decision daily...
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