Yes, the basis of this whole thing was that someone was Advertising, and I do believe they mentioned "Design Talent" or something along those lines.
What that actually meant probably was 3D Modeller / CAD Monkey... with good ideas.
It also probably meant that, "You are going to have such a wonderful experience working for me because I'm so great that merely standing my presence is worth your time. It's like Gold. Did I mention how great I am and how lucky you are to be doing my work for me? Did I? Did I mention you're working for free? Sure I'm getting paid for your work. Hey, you're getting paid too. Stand right here. Feel That? That's Magic, baby. Magic. Soak it in."
If you need CAD Monkey - hire CAD Monkey (Hire with $$ in return). If you need Rhino Genius - Hire a Rhino Genius (Hire with $$). If you're older and have been running a business for years and understandably don't have your finger on the design pulse - Hire a recent grad. Respect their knowledge. Pay them, if that's what you need them for.
My favorite is the PM who gives the sketches to the monkey, the monkey draws per the PM's sketches. PM then Changes their mind multiple times (5+) - Monkey Redraws. 5 Times. Then the project goes over budget. Whose fault is it? Ahhh Monkey - you're so dumb. "Hey Boss," sez the PM, "See that Monkey over there - he cost you all of that money. Bad Monkey. Bad Monkey. Go back to graduate school. You and your worthless education."
After their successful hire of an unpaid intern last year Rux is at it again!
Design Intern
Rux Design
Long Island City, NY, US
Fri, Apr 13 '12
RUX is an award-winning multidisciplinary design studio. Current projects range from a house in Miami, to modular furniture and lighting systems, to bottles and magnetic toys.
Our summer interns must:
1) thrive in a fast-paced creative environment
2) take ownership over high-level design challenges
3) have strong graphic representation skills
4) think conceptually as well as technically
5) keep an open mind
6) prove all of the above through past experience
Please send CV and portfolio (no more than 2MB) along with a short paragraph describing your interest in RUX to [email protected]. Applications received before May 11th 2012 will be given first priority.
(This unpaid work opportunity is in full compliance with Fact Sheet #71 as promulgated by the Department of Labor.)
Hahahaha so RUX was the one we helpfully and politely contacted when this thread was started to inform them of the DoL requirements, and now they include those requirements in their ad. Good for them.
This is for a summer position. If they truly follow the DoL standards, then some up-and-comer will get good experience and exposure to the field in which s/he hopes to work. Not much more we can do but hope that they truly do meet those standards. This is where the argument shifts to the economic inequalities that lead to more opportunity existing for people who DON'T need to rely on an income from their work because they have parents etc. who can support them. Again, not much we can do about that.
I do think it's embarrassing for RUX to not be able to offer even a stipend. I mean, come on. They must do a poor job managing their business if they can't afford to pay SOMETHING. I for one could never not pay someone, for any experience, because it's embarrassing and difficult for me to ask for help. Then again, it's entirely possible, and let's hope, that they are offering this internship out of the goodness of their hearts, their love of our field, and their desire to give some lucky young kid a wonderful big break. It's like a Broadway musical!
Here is my solution to the issue.
Why don’t we use the work-study program to integrate into internship issue.
1. Firms have to register with the accredited program.
2. Students have to apply to get work-study aid from the Education Department.
3. Students will apply to the firm they would like to work.
4. Establish time tracking mechanism between school and the firm.
5. Students will get paid, schools can be integral part of education and practice, and firms will get new talents. WIN, WIN, WIN!
6. Students may even possible to reduce student loan because they are working for study income.
If Education Department is ok with giving student loan money to profit online universities, they should be able to my solution too. Is it a form of subsidizing to the fims? Yes it is also helping to those who are in need of level playing field. Majority of those who can’t work for free are likely to be eligible ones for work-study aids. If the government is subsiding framers annually, why can’t they support to students? That is not fucking rocket science!
Oh ! one more thing, a firm didn’t treat interns right. Blackball them in future! I’m sure some dip crap egos at the firms will learn how to nurture future architects.
my favorite part is the link to section 71 US Dept. of Labor;
apparently "take ownership over high-level design challenges" at RUX is synonymous with school studio work under the 'internship' labor sheet. This means that any work performed at RUX by the intern ought to be taken home. All finished popsicle stick and CNC models free for the smashing! since this internship benefits only the intern right? makes sense for the unpaid lackey to do whatever the fuck he wants with his completed works since he won't be paid for them.
Nice, midwaygrey. They *do* ask for experience, which pretty much means they *do not* want to have to teach anyone anything. So I'm guessing they aren't planning to actually follow the DoL standards, just reference them and wink while saying "Get back to work!".
glad people are talking about this unpaid rux internship listing. i too was annoyed and angry when i saw it.
as someone who is currently scoping out internship opportunities, is it just me or do there seem to be less internship postings this year (pre-summer) than last, even though the economy is supposed to be in a slight upswing?
what I usually do when I come across these shitty fucking job posts is send a bullshit email with my crazy neighbors name and phone number. You want to waste my time I'll waste your time.
What sucks is that there will always be a talented young person who is in the first years of architecture school and has no other choice but to take this free internship in order to include some working experience in the resume. Employers these days want candidates that have experience right out of school. And even these candidates will work for less money then they are worth. The cruel concept of free market, damn Adam Smith.
I myself fell into this category. At a job interview I was offered $15/hour when I am worth at least $25. Sure I am young, but at 22 I wanna eat. By having self respect I decided to open my own rendering/drafting/design company. Its risky, I have to keep by bills to a minimum and I don't always have work but by working hard I make more in the time then if someone else were to pay me for the same job. Not everyone is in the same position as I was and has the time to invest in themselves but there is hope that in the future I will make right connections and be able to evolve it into something bigger.
"I current work outside of the profession and in the field I am in, fresh-out-of-school grads start around $105,000 for their work."
What field is this? That seems a lot better than 27,000 in NYC.
As a current undergrad with integrated work terms in my program, the fact of unpaid internships faces us every semester. I have had firms stop emailing me after I say that I am looking for a paid internship. Getting this experience is so competitive these days that its a shame that firms lower themselves to hire slave labour just because they can.
In Europe its a little different since their government pays students to do internships, so the firms usually end up not paying north american students or pay them a small stipend.
Understandable, what is not understandable is when american firms just refuse to pay interns, I have even had experience at large corporate firms who follow illegal pay practices, like not paying extra for overtime or anything at all for overtime work.
Also, our school now changed their rules so that you have to receive some sort of compensation to get a credit for your work term, kinda shitty for people wanting to go work for the fancy guys, but I guess they are trying to somewhat protect us...
4.The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;
They're not even claiming internship anymore. I don't know if it's cool that I post this here, but I was just perusing the archinect job board and came across this:
Junior designer positon, stipend for 3-4 months, and then they may offer you a position (and salary).
Unpaid work is a slippery slope. Intern in our profession doesn't mean the same as in others, and yet our own profession wants to pay us as 'interns' - ie nothing. Huh.
Unpaid Internship? Really?
Yes, the basis of this whole thing was that someone was Advertising, and I do believe they mentioned "Design Talent" or something along those lines.
What that actually meant probably was 3D Modeller / CAD Monkey... with good ideas.
It also probably meant that, "You are going to have such a wonderful experience working for me because I'm so great that merely standing my presence is worth your time. It's like Gold. Did I mention how great I am and how lucky you are to be doing my work for me? Did I? Did I mention you're working for free? Sure I'm getting paid for your work. Hey, you're getting paid too. Stand right here. Feel That? That's Magic, baby. Magic. Soak it in."
If you need CAD Monkey - hire CAD Monkey (Hire with $$ in return). If you need Rhino Genius - Hire a Rhino Genius (Hire with $$). If you're older and have been running a business for years and understandably don't have your finger on the design pulse - Hire a recent grad. Respect their knowledge. Pay them, if that's what you need them for.
My favorite is the PM who gives the sketches to the monkey, the monkey draws per the PM's sketches. PM then Changes their mind multiple times (5+) - Monkey Redraws. 5 Times. Then the project goes over budget. Whose fault is it? Ahhh Monkey - you're so dumb. "Hey Boss," sez the PM, "See that Monkey over there - he cost you all of that money. Bad Monkey. Bad Monkey. Go back to graduate school. You and your worthless education."
Yes. There it was at the top of the page, "Talented Designer".
If their "talent" merits their presence, then their presence merits wages.
After their successful hire of an unpaid intern last year Rux is at it again!
Design Intern
Rux Design
Long Island City, NY, US
Fri, Apr 13 '12
RUX is an award-winning multidisciplinary design studio. Current projects range from a house in Miami, to modular furniture and lighting systems, to bottles and magnetic toys.
Our summer interns must:
1) thrive in a fast-paced creative environment
2) take ownership over high-level design challenges
3) have strong graphic representation skills
4) think conceptually as well as technically
5) keep an open mind
6) prove all of the above through past experience
Please send CV and portfolio (no more than 2MB) along with a short paragraph describing your interest in RUX to [email protected]. Applications received before May 11th 2012 will be given first priority.
(This unpaid work opportunity is in full compliance with Fact Sheet #71 as promulgated by the Department of Labor.)
Hahahaha so RUX was the one we helpfully and politely contacted when this thread was started to inform them of the DoL requirements, and now they include those requirements in their ad. Good for them.
This is for a summer position. If they truly follow the DoL standards, then some up-and-comer will get good experience and exposure to the field in which s/he hopes to work. Not much more we can do but hope that they truly do meet those standards. This is where the argument shifts to the economic inequalities that lead to more opportunity existing for people who DON'T need to rely on an income from their work because they have parents etc. who can support them. Again, not much we can do about that.
I do think it's embarrassing for RUX to not be able to offer even a stipend. I mean, come on. They must do a poor job managing their business if they can't afford to pay SOMETHING. I for one could never not pay someone, for any experience, because it's embarrassing and difficult for me to ask for help. Then again, it's entirely possible, and let's hope, that they are offering this internship out of the goodness of their hearts, their love of our field, and their desire to give some lucky young kid a wonderful big break. It's like a Broadway musical!
Here is my solution to the issue.
Why don’t we use the work-study program to integrate into internship issue.
1. Firms have to register with the accredited program.
2. Students have to apply to get work-study aid from the Education Department.
3. Students will apply to the firm they would like to work.
4. Establish time tracking mechanism between school and the firm.
5. Students will get paid, schools can be integral part of education and practice, and firms will get new talents. WIN, WIN, WIN!
6. Students may even possible to reduce student loan because they are working for study income.
If Education Department is ok with giving student loan money to profit online universities, they should be able to my solution too. Is it a form of subsidizing to the fims? Yes it is also helping to those who are in need of level playing field. Majority of those who can’t work for free are likely to be eligible ones for work-study aids. If the government is subsiding framers annually, why can’t they support to students? That is not fucking rocket science!
Oh ! one more thing, a firm didn’t treat interns right. Blackball them in future! I’m sure some dip crap egos at the firms will learn how to nurture future architects.
They pay the janitor but not their interns...how's that for the value of education.
@LITS4FormZ
So true...
my favorite part is the link to section 71 US Dept. of Labor;
apparently "take ownership over high-level design challenges" at RUX is synonymous with school studio work under the 'internship' labor sheet. This means that any work performed at RUX by the intern ought to be taken home. All finished popsicle stick and CNC models free for the smashing! since this internship benefits only the intern right? makes sense for the unpaid lackey to do whatever the fuck he wants with his completed works since he won't be paid for them.
Nice, midwaygrey. They *do* ask for experience, which pretty much means they *do not* want to have to teach anyone anything. So I'm guessing they aren't planning to actually follow the DoL standards, just reference them and wink while saying "Get back to work!".
<sigh>
glad people are talking about this unpaid rux internship listing. i too was annoyed and angry when i saw it.
as someone who is currently scoping out internship opportunities, is it just me or do there seem to be less internship postings this year (pre-summer) than last, even though the economy is supposed to be in a slight upswing?
what I usually do when I come across these shitty fucking job posts is send a bullshit email with my crazy neighbors name and phone number. You want to waste my time I'll waste your time.
What sucks is that there will always be a talented young person who is in the first years of architecture school and has no other choice but to take this free internship in order to include some working experience in the resume. Employers these days want candidates that have experience right out of school. And even these candidates will work for less money then they are worth. The cruel concept of free market, damn Adam Smith.
I myself fell into this category. At a job interview I was offered $15/hour when I am worth at least $25. Sure I am young, but at 22 I wanna eat. By having self respect I decided to open my own rendering/drafting/design company. Its risky, I have to keep by bills to a minimum and I don't always have work but by working hard I make more in the time then if someone else were to pay me for the same job. Not everyone is in the same position as I was and has the time to invest in themselves but there is hope that in the future I will make right connections and be able to evolve it into something bigger.
"I current work outside of the profession and in the field I am in, fresh-out-of-school grads start around $105,000 for their work."
What field is this? That seems a lot better than 27,000 in NYC.
As a current undergrad with integrated work terms in my program, the fact of unpaid internships faces us every semester. I have had firms stop emailing me after I say that I am looking for a paid internship. Getting this experience is so competitive these days that its a shame that firms lower themselves to hire slave labour just because they can.
In Europe its a little different since their government pays students to do internships, so the firms usually end up not paying north american students or pay them a small stipend.
Understandable, what is not understandable is when american firms just refuse to pay interns, I have even had experience at large corporate firms who follow illegal pay practices, like not paying extra for overtime or anything at all for overtime work.
Also, our school now changed their rules so that you have to receive some sort of compensation to get a credit for your work term, kinda shitty for people wanting to go work for the fancy guys, but I guess they are trying to somewhat protect us...
4.The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;
riiiiight
2. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern
With what theyre asking for..yeah right.
Why can't archinect put their foot down on this.
I doubt unpaid internship postings are a major source of revenue.
They're not even claiming internship anymore. I don't know if it's cool that I post this here, but I was just perusing the archinect job board and came across this:
http://archinect.com/jobs/entry/43829436/junior-designer
Junior designer positon, stipend for 3-4 months, and then they may offer you a position (and salary).
Unpaid work is a slippery slope. Intern in our profession doesn't mean the same as in others, and yet our own profession wants to pay us as 'interns' - ie nothing. Huh.
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