Question: How important is work experience and construction type to a young architect's future desire to work at a firm with much more high profile / more 'involved' building types? Will a portfolio of low-rise, mainly stick-built projects look amateur to these offices?!
How much does working at the mediocrity level hold you back too? Do ex-SOM architects struggle going to boutiques or do boutique architects struggle going to SOM ?
Let's say for this case, boutique = mainly small scale stuff; multi-housing, clinics, condos, a couple schools here and there, mixed-use projects...nothing that innovative
If you want to move into high design and become primarily a designer and not a detailer or spec writer... what do you have to do? Jump ship? Spend 100k for an ivy degree and hope for hand-outs? Hold on for 20 years until you "deserve" it? become a lawyer?
A student from my college was offered 15k more out of school then the rest of us because he had won one or two of the school design competitions - at a corporate office, of course. But is this normal? How valuable are these young ambitious "high-designers" to offices?
What do you even consider design? Stuff you did at school did not go beyond schematic design.
You are more likely to be exposed to all aspects of architectural services in a small to medium office. You are more likely to end up being a specialist in a larger office (you need specialists in order to execute complex projects).
You will probably do more schematic design in a smaller office. Big projects that are sufficiently complex will require more billable hours just to coordinate plumbing drawings than will be allocated to the actual design. Typical SOM tower contains very little "design".
How hard is it to move between the two? It depends. Big offices do plenty of work that would not be considered 'involved' (whatever that means).
As a young designer, you'd be a fool to expect to do any significant design work for a while. Go watch 'Karate Kid'. You gotta learn how to sweep the floors properly before kicking anyone's ass. Your school only taught you how to assemble a broom. Little else.
Your friend got offered more money for his proven record of putting in the quality hours. He's much more likely to put up with 70 hour weeks than someone who didn't work on any competitions.
Also, a word of warning: "big" architecture the likes of SOM is a very, very, very corporate affair. The "architects" who work there resemble accountants and IRS auditors. Results are predictably boring.
Working for SOM (or whatever alike) and later moving to a "starchitect" is definitely possible. I know quite a few people who made that move (some of them working for SOM itself). Think about one second, starchitects are business after-all, and having more "results-orientated" profiles will not hurt them. Obviously getting that job, it also helps your background (school, portfolio, which kind of projects u made at SOM/whateveralike - some starchitects projects are not that different anyways -).
Working for starchitect and moving to SOM is also a possible move (I would say easier). They know you are used to work long-hours for peanuts and you have good-design skills, which are also important to SOM in order to differentiate themselves from whatever AECOM.
it's hard to make the switch from large office to small after you've been there for too long - but it's a little easier to go from small to large. they won't really care if you worked on stick-built vinyl gingerbread BS, just as long as you can use the tools - typically training is much better in larger offices - but you might have to start over from the bottom.
the upside and downside of working in small firms is that you get to do everything - which means you'll get really good at being mediocre at a lot of things (but at least you'll know how to do them), whereas in a large office you'll get really good at a couple things, but are completely useless at others.
also - if you want to be a design-only person and you weren't given any clues in school that you were amongst one of the chosen ones, you're going to have to really step up your game. didn't you get the speech that only maybe a couple people from your class would ever get to design professionally? well... people will usually pull you aside and let you know if they think you have a shot at this career path (and not even all these people they pull aside actually make it as designers) - they won't tell the rest of you schmucks because they don't want to hurt your feelings. not that you don't have a chance, it's just that if you really want to head down this path you're going to have to work much much harder to prove that you're capable.
"designer" is the most competitive and elite and unsecure of the specialties - and even more so at "high design" firms. other aspects of the profession can be creative, fun, and rewarding (especially if you work with the right people) - and we definitely need more talented detailers and spec writers and project managers. you're still young you don't really have to choose a path just yet, but IMO, keep an open mind about the other things and learn to enjoy them.
I don't completely agree. I think you need to decide more or less where and how you want to fit in within your first few years out of school. From that point on, you often get pigeonholed into the type of work you have experience in. Nobody in this field gives a hoot how smart you are, what kind of grades you got, etc. All they care about are the projects they see in your portfolio (which you may or may not even have much responsibility for!) As was said, you can move from a small, stick-building firm to a big, corporate firm. But without a connection, it is NOT easy, and you will likely start at the bottom once there. Mostly, you will not even be considered at all because with too many years of experience in your resume, nobody believes you are truly willing to start from the bottom anymore. This is exactly what was related to my old coworker when he tried to make the move to Perkins & Will.
My first work experience was at SOM, and I spent more time designing there as an intern than I did as a an entry-level architect at a small firm in NYC.
I've since moved on to a larger firm, and once again, I am finding more of a creative outlet in that setting than in that other smaller firm I previously worked at.
Larger firms tend to distribute design on a skill-basis more than anything else. If you want to be heavily technical, there are generally enough projects to shuffle you around into that role if you so want it. Wanna be a viz expert? Spend a few hours teaching yourself, and they'll generally let you try out for the role. If you're the best at something, you'll be the one to handle it most cases (I was handling full Digital Project models in DC while at SOM. As an intern.).
Smaller firms are often ran in a near-tyrannical fashion when it comes to who decides who gets to do what, and who gets to engage in the heavily creative roles.
I had a really rough time working at that smaller firm; I learned a lot, but the training program seemed to be lacking. I'm glad to be working on a larger project once again.
Really - right after I graduated, I started at SOM-SF, and because I was one of the few who knew Revit at the time(2007), I got many opportunities in terms of design and production that I would never have had at a smaller firm or at SOM and other large firms, if I had only legacy skills. The bottom fell out in 11/08' and it's been a major struggle to get back in the game in 12/09' I am now at a small office, and only because of what I did at SOM, do I get to do production and some design again. That being said, I get to do a whole variety of things.
."Smaller firms are often ran in a near-tyrannical fashion when it comes to who decides who gets to do what, and who gets to engage in the heavily creative roles." The small office I interned at in Del Mar, Ca. was this way - after all, they had 5 vice presidents in a 35 person firm.
After 3 years of office experience all in BIM at small, med,large and XL offices, I need to decide what is a realistic career path.
Mar 26, 11 3:05 pm ·
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Work Experience hurdles
Question: How important is work experience and construction type to a young architect's future desire to work at a firm with much more high profile / more 'involved' building types? Will a portfolio of low-rise, mainly stick-built projects look amateur to these offices?!
How much does working at the mediocrity level hold you back too? Do ex-SOM architects struggle going to boutiques or do boutique architects struggle going to SOM ?
Let's say for this case, boutique = mainly small scale stuff; multi-housing, clinics, condos, a couple schools here and there, mixed-use projects...nothing that innovative
If you want to move into high design and become primarily a designer and not a detailer or spec writer... what do you have to do? Jump ship? Spend 100k for an ivy degree and hope for hand-outs? Hold on for 20 years until you "deserve" it? become a lawyer?
A student from my college was offered 15k more out of school then the rest of us because he had won one or two of the school design competitions - at a corporate office, of course. But is this normal? How valuable are these young ambitious "high-designers" to offices?
This one is loaded, I know.
Hey, what do you have against spec writers? hmph
What do you even consider design? Stuff you did at school did not go beyond schematic design.
You are more likely to be exposed to all aspects of architectural services in a small to medium office. You are more likely to end up being a specialist in a larger office (you need specialists in order to execute complex projects).
You will probably do more schematic design in a smaller office. Big projects that are sufficiently complex will require more billable hours just to coordinate plumbing drawings than will be allocated to the actual design. Typical SOM tower contains very little "design".
How hard is it to move between the two? It depends. Big offices do plenty of work that would not be considered 'involved' (whatever that means).
As a young designer, you'd be a fool to expect to do any significant design work for a while. Go watch 'Karate Kid'. You gotta learn how to sweep the floors properly before kicking anyone's ass. Your school only taught you how to assemble a broom. Little else.
Your friend got offered more money for his proven record of putting in the quality hours. He's much more likely to put up with 70 hour weeks than someone who didn't work on any competitions.
Also, a word of warning: "big" architecture the likes of SOM is a very, very, very corporate affair. The "architects" who work there resemble accountants and IRS auditors. Results are predictably boring.
Why do you want to work there again?
It depends.
Working for SOM (or whatever alike) and later moving to a "starchitect" is definitely possible. I know quite a few people who made that move (some of them working for SOM itself). Think about one second, starchitects are business after-all, and having more "results-orientated" profiles will not hurt them. Obviously getting that job, it also helps your background (school, portfolio, which kind of projects u made at SOM/whateveralike - some starchitects projects are not that different anyways -).
Working for starchitect and moving to SOM is also a possible move (I would say easier). They know you are used to work long-hours for peanuts and you have good-design skills, which are also important to SOM in order to differentiate themselves from whatever AECOM.
it's hard to make the switch from large office to small after you've been there for too long - but it's a little easier to go from small to large. they won't really care if you worked on stick-built vinyl gingerbread BS, just as long as you can use the tools - typically training is much better in larger offices - but you might have to start over from the bottom.
the upside and downside of working in small firms is that you get to do everything - which means you'll get really good at being mediocre at a lot of things (but at least you'll know how to do them), whereas in a large office you'll get really good at a couple things, but are completely useless at others.
also - if you want to be a design-only person and you weren't given any clues in school that you were amongst one of the chosen ones, you're going to have to really step up your game. didn't you get the speech that only maybe a couple people from your class would ever get to design professionally? well... people will usually pull you aside and let you know if they think you have a shot at this career path (and not even all these people they pull aside actually make it as designers) - they won't tell the rest of you schmucks because they don't want to hurt your feelings. not that you don't have a chance, it's just that if you really want to head down this path you're going to have to work much much harder to prove that you're capable.
"designer" is the most competitive and elite and unsecure of the specialties - and even more so at "high design" firms. other aspects of the profession can be creative, fun, and rewarding (especially if you work with the right people) - and we definitely need more talented detailers and spec writers and project managers. you're still young you don't really have to choose a path just yet, but IMO, keep an open mind about the other things and learn to enjoy them.
I don't completely agree. I think you need to decide more or less where and how you want to fit in within your first few years out of school. From that point on, you often get pigeonholed into the type of work you have experience in. Nobody in this field gives a hoot how smart you are, what kind of grades you got, etc. All they care about are the projects they see in your portfolio (which you may or may not even have much responsibility for!) As was said, you can move from a small, stick-building firm to a big, corporate firm. But without a connection, it is NOT easy, and you will likely start at the bottom once there. Mostly, you will not even be considered at all because with too many years of experience in your resume, nobody believes you are truly willing to start from the bottom anymore. This is exactly what was related to my old coworker when he tried to make the move to Perkins & Will.
My quick thoughts:
My first work experience was at SOM, and I spent more time designing there as an intern than I did as a an entry-level architect at a small firm in NYC.
I've since moved on to a larger firm, and once again, I am finding more of a creative outlet in that setting than in that other smaller firm I previously worked at.
Larger firms tend to distribute design on a skill-basis more than anything else. If you want to be heavily technical, there are generally enough projects to shuffle you around into that role if you so want it. Wanna be a viz expert? Spend a few hours teaching yourself, and they'll generally let you try out for the role. If you're the best at something, you'll be the one to handle it most cases (I was handling full Digital Project models in DC while at SOM. As an intern.).
Smaller firms are often ran in a near-tyrannical fashion when it comes to who decides who gets to do what, and who gets to engage in the heavily creative roles.
I had a really rough time working at that smaller firm; I learned a lot, but the training program seemed to be lacking. I'm glad to be working on a larger project once again.
Fluxbound
Really - right after I graduated, I started at SOM-SF, and because I was one of the few who knew Revit at the time(2007), I got many opportunities in terms of design and production that I would never have had at a smaller firm or at SOM and other large firms, if I had only legacy skills. The bottom fell out in 11/08' and it's been a major struggle to get back in the game in 12/09' I am now at a small office, and only because of what I did at SOM, do I get to do production and some design again. That being said, I get to do a whole variety of things.
."Smaller firms are often ran in a near-tyrannical fashion when it comes to who decides who gets to do what, and who gets to engage in the heavily creative roles." The small office I interned at in Del Mar, Ca. was this way - after all, they had 5 vice presidents in a 35 person firm.
After 3 years of office experience all in BIM at small, med,large and XL offices, I need to decide what is a realistic career path.
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