I have consumed all of the laptop threads on archinect and researched notebook reviews and think I am ready to purchase a laptop... (around $2000; I use CAD, 3dsMAX, Adobe, et al.)
Are there any final words of persuasion or dissuasion toward any of the following:
- Toshiba tecra M2
- Toshiba satellite M30/35 (?)
- IBM tHinkpad R50/51
- IBM thinkpad t42
What ever laptop you buy, max out the graphics card to at least 128mb and max out Mermory to 1GB.
I just ordered the DEll 9200 for about $1800.00. Its a new model replacing the 9100, it now comes with a 17" screen and it went down in weight from 11lb to 8lb
Dell was running a 15% off sale, I think it is still going on
I second Blue-
My dell's have been rock solid and in price points they beat the IBM & Toshiba's hands down.
I don't think the brand matters all that much but what's under the hood is where you'll see the difference. Although I've never had issues with laptops, they do have a reputation for probs so an extra $100 for a 3 year warranty might be worth it. I once called Dell and said I though my LCD monitor was dimming. The next day some kid came to my house and put a new screen on free of charge. Make sure you get that kind of service - it's nice.
Yeah, we have a Toshiba that has had some kind of monitor defect since we got it. Had a warrenty and they "fixed" it but it still randomly turns off. Finally got something in the mail a week ago acknowledging a factory defect (3 years later), says we can send it to Toshiba to have it fixed... we only use it for word processing and internet though, so it's been ok.
when u buy, look up "dell coupon" on google. Sites will give you a code for percentage off, usually around 15-20 percent;sometimes more. (this is usually takes place of the special offers, but saves you more money... test and see which will save u the most)
Only problem with dell's is that they are butt-ugly. This cheap-looking blue and grey metallic on their inspirons is enough to make me not want to have one.
Their Latitude's are nice though. But also more expensive.
I would go for the IBM t42. Probably the best quality laptop you can buy. And it's thin and light as well.
I've got a Lattitude D800. It's been flawless, except for (very) occaisionally, I'll get booted to a different place in my text when I'm typing. It happens so infrequently, I doubt I could explain it to a tech rep.
Nice looking, too - widescreen.
f
The 9200 is pretty nice looking (considering it's a PC). It's a HUGE leap forwrad over the drab gray and blue of the other models.
The latest issue of PC Mag gives it their Editor's Choice. I am thinking of buying one because it's a screaming deal (2400 for the 2.1 P M, the fastest out there, 128 mb graphics, DVDRW and a 17" screen - not bad)
The code for the discount is: D81123z
Dell has a winner here (only thing that bothers me is that there is the 256 mb ATI card that the HP and Boxxtech have, but not a huge deal, 128 is pretty good).
Oh, stay away from the IBM R51 - it got the worst score of all the laptops (although they love the ultra portable IBMs, the rest are mediocre at best).
freq_arch: I'm willing to bet the unintentional relocations are when you're typing colons, semicolons, quotes, or fractions. I've had this happen in both Word and Autocad (mtext) and it can be maddening!
It doesn't seem to have to do with the model of laptop - I've had it happen on different brands - so I'm thinking it's a symptom of the Windows OS having gotten too 'smart' for its own good. Those symbols are some sort of trick code for 'jump up two lines and over 10 spaces'. Drives me crazy.
Make sure you consider 64 bit in any laptop if you intend to use for cad or 3d. Bluetooth would be good too if you want to keep it for a while.
Toshiba and Dell both make good laptops for the money. Emachines has two great 64 bit laptops on the market for a little less money. They have come a long way from their reputation as a throw away computer maker.
I agree with the others on this thread. Go for the power and make sure the graphics card is dedicated and fully openGL compatible (not a game card).
I've owned two dell laptops and both times I have experienced the best and worst of dell. In both cases the laptop has totally become fucked multiple times. I've had my 8600 for a little over a year and it is currently in the shop for the 3RD!!! time for the same exact problem : dim screen. Each time they say they are going to replace it and then I get it back and there's a note saying they just tightened a loose screw. That makes it work for a few weeks and then the screen goes dark again. On the plus end, they are cheap and when it has needed to be repaired, I've always gotten it back with 3 days (but that's probably because the don't really fix it). So, in summary, dells are cheap, powerful, break down, but the service is fast (but unreliable). The best and worst of it. Whatever you get, max out the graphics card and RAM.
They compare desktops and laptops at different prices. I'll suggest to everyone - get a subscription. I am not a computer geek, by any means, and have a hell of a time with the tech side, but these mags have so many great articles and suggestins, it's easily worht the $20 a year (I think they are like 5-6 bucks each).
Alpha - the only machines available with 64 bit are AMD machines, and I don't know of many high end machines that use AMD.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about 64 bit for a laptop. It'll be so outdated by the time Windows 64 comes out and Max is rewritten for 64 bits (they have not announced anything, so it's at least a year away).
OpenGL - all new graphic cards should support it, including gaming cards. The Geforce series are essentail Quadros, and vice versa, with a few add ons (that the newer Geforce have, like supporting stereo projections - we have tried ALL the high end cards at work, from the top Quadros to the Geforces (there are about 30 Dell Dual 3.0+ with various cards, and we've done a lot of testing for real time big screen presentations), not much difference, at least not for arch viz).
To Andrew and anyone else looking: get a BUSINESS machine!! You can get the same computers (workstations are only sold on the business side), you only pay tax (not cheap), but you get the business tech support. I've got both, the business I get a knowledgeable American in less than 5-10 minutes that will walk me through anything, including my home Dell. The home side I get someone in India that keeps telling me I have to pay for info and NEVER is all that helpful. It's worth the money.
They also are there immediately. I had a graphic card go out in a workstation and a new one was at my door with a tech guy without 24 hours, and that was about 40 miles from any city. I was impressed.
i love love love my HP zd7000. it has a superwide 17" screen w/ bright view, great for dvds and acad. it is heavy, so it's more like a good desktop replacement than a light little carry everywhere laptop. i've had it 5 months and no problems yet.
Steven Ward:
Thanks for the insight. I don't recall that it happens when I use symbols like that, but my blind rage when it happens may be obscuring the facts a bit- I'll pay more attention.
You are right about the effect though - usually, I end up a couple of lines higher and somewhere in the middle of a word. Arrrgh!
I did suspect it might have to do with the keyboard type in my laptop.
Thanks again.
F
I just go my Dell 9200 about a week ago and I'm sad to say that it did not meet my high expectations. I ordered it with 1gig of Ram and the 128 video card so I thought I would have a pretty fast computer, especially since I'm coming from a 4 year old PIII desktop. Its faster then the desktop, but the 9200 feels slow when using Illustrator and Sketch-Up.
I think I should of ordered a laptop with the intel® Pentium® 4 chip and not Intel® Pentium® M Processor with centrino mobile technology.
What is the deal with Centrino anyway? I haven't been following. Looks like the chip speeds have dropped but the prices have gone up, presumably because it's "integrated wireless technology"? What does that mean?
I've used an AMD 2.4Ghz desktop machine for several years now and it's still pretty sweet. But when I go to school I'll need a laptop, so I'm trying to stay tuned here...
I have a Dell laptop which I am pretty happy with. My big problem with Dell is their customer support. Their customer service is all handled out of India. If you do have to call, be prepared to describe the problem 50 times, and be asked "how you are pleased with their performance" as many times.
Although not a Mac owner/lover my recent exp. with their tech. support when my iPod battery died, sure showed me what "real" customer service is!
I just got a dell 9200. Works well with 3d programs, haven't rendered anything big yet. cad and graphic programs do well on it too. The strange thing is that a lot of graphic images on web pages such as the one posted above, come out kinda blurry. otherwise, i highly recommend it. actually looks nice considering it's a pc laptop(unlike the xps,yikes). I think this and the xps were the only ones with compatible video cards for maya. checked out most of the machines on this discussion and thought this was a good compromise.
I'd be cautious about laptops for 3D. I know there are good ones, I was going to get one. But when I saw they were $3000, I went desktop. The school put together deals for IBM PM 1.8s with 1GB RAM and 128 MB FireGLs. They do most things ok, but when you get into even just slightly larger renders they chug. And that's just Rhino. From what I understand, only Fire GLs and Quadros are fully compatable with Maya. You risk crashes with anything else. Plus, who wants to work on an image file on a 15 inch screen. So while laptops have a lot of advantages, for the cost, I don't think they are the ideal answer for design. For the same cost as a workstation class laptop I got a dual Opteron, 2 GB RAM, 128 MB Quadro 1100, 240 GB HDD (160 and an 80 GB), DVD-R, with a 19 inch flat panel. The thing flies. Although recently I bought a cheap Gateway laptop to pick up the slack. I.e., like when I fired out my 10 hour render this weekend, I could still work. My laptop is an AMD 64 3000+, 768 MB RAM, ATI 9600 64 MB with 60 GB HDD, DVD/CD-R with 15.4 Widescreen. Handles most things well, like PS, Ill, InD, DOOM3 and Rhino (renders slow)
I heavily recommend the HP Pavillion 7000, of which I bought my own a few months ago. You can find them refurbished (still with HP guarantee) on e-bay and elsewhere. I bought my own for $1400, it's a 3.06 GHz processor, with only 512 MB DDR RAM, but that is easily upgradeable. Today you can find considerably better ones at bargain prizes.
Their great advantage is the 17 inch widescreen display and fullsize keyboard, without them I don't think I could have managed with a laptop, considering all the CAD, rendering and illustrator work I do. Also, I don't fint the weight to be a problem at all.
One thing to keep in mind, if you plan to do renderings, don't consider a non-multithreading processor. They are well worth the money, that extra bucket is priceless.
ill swear by my hp zt3000. its slightly different than the zd8000, smaller screen, lighter, thinner, and pentium M chip instead of 4. im loving every minute of using this computer...hasnt let me down yet (bought it in the summer). i just wish my graphics card was more than 64mb. anyway, i researched forever...comparing toshiba, sony, dell, hp, ibm etc etc. hp offered me the same configurations for less so i went with them. dells have always been trouble and the others are just a little to expensive for my liking. anyway, zd8000 looks good to me!
Mason,
I'm not an expert but I just returned my 9200 Dell laptop (with the Pent. M chip) after it had a hard time running SketchUp and Illustrator files. The bottom line was that the laptop felt slow. I ordered it with a 1gig or RAM and a 128 video card. It totally surprised me that it could not handle the programs I was using. I must say that the 17" screen was great and the sound from the speakers were pretty good. But, I need and want something that can handle 3D modelling programs. I felt it was my fault for ordering the 9200 with the Pent. M chip. I should of known better. But it looked great. I'm looking at the HP zd8000 now. If you compare prices its a better deal then Dell XPS with comparable components.
as far as architecture related stuff....mostly ive been running CAD 2005, photoshop, illustrator and sketch up.
i havent had any problems yet with my configuration when running these programs thus far...it gets a little slow sometimes, but then again what computer doesnt? im just glad i dont have to deal with the computers in the overcrowded PC lab @ school anymore.
heres what ive got:
intel pentium M 1.8GHz (you can get up to 2.10 now)
1 GB RAM
60 GB 5400 RPM hard drive (faster spinning=better)
DVD+RW/R & CD-RW combo drive
intel pro wireless 2200 802.11 b/g & bluetooth
15.4" screen (1680x1050)
64 MB ATI 9200 graphics card
so this difference between 4 and M...
pentium 4 is basically the next step in the regular old line of intel chips, predecesor being P3, which have always been used in desktops, but its just used in laptops too.
the pentium M is a chip designed specifically for laptops and mobility...it's more energy efficient (ie extended battery power), produces less heat, and works better with wireless.
so if you plan on using your laptop really as a laptop go with M. if its just gonna be sitting on your table taking the place of a desktop you might as well save money and get a pent4 chip.
a 'slower' pentium M chip is still comparable to the pent 4 with a 'higher' GHz from what i can gather.
blue - I think you may have been expecting too much. I have an old PIII 933 with 512 mb and it's a dog compared to my dual 2.2 and dual 3.0, but it still works. It'll still work with 1 gig PS files or 100mb Max files, it's just slower.
I believe a Centrino 1.4 equates to about a 2.7, or something close to that (in PCMag they compared the performance a while ago). So basically you are saying a P4 2.7 is too slow. That's high expectations!
One problem with the P4's is their heat. They aren't made for tight spots so they'll get much hotter, and then the machine will slow itself down to keep it cool, negating any performance gain. At least that's what I've read in the PCMag editorails.
Glad you returned it, though, as it will mean I can get a nice refurbished models for pennies of what you paid.
For those that don't know, ALWAYS go to http://www.techbargains.com . They have had $700+ off on 9200's. The one I spec'd out would have saved me over a grand!! Just add the configured laptop to your cart, go through till the end, and copy and paste the code from techbargains and hit 'apply'. Damn simple and Dell never advertises any of these discounts.
I've been researching laptops for over a year and the Dell get's the highest marks in the reviews and is the most affordable, not to mention the better tech support. Right now, I am just hoping a 256 mb graphics card will come out.
Oh, just keep an eye on the graphics cards with the HPs. PCMag gave them poor marks compared to the 9200 because their card was so inferior (even though it was a 256 vs. Dell's 128). I think it was the November issue that compared them - Dell beat all in the 17" segment.
My biggest reservation about the Dell 9200 (besides talking to probably the dumbest telelphone sales person I have ever spoken to) is this issue with the screen. Everyone talks about how images look blurry on screen with the Del 9200... That seems somewhat basic.
Here is the info I got from PCMag:
HP Pavilion zd8000
Price: $2,350 direct
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Media Center
Processor Class: Mobile Pentium 4
Processor Speed: 3.4 GHz
RAM: 1024 MB
Hard Drive Capacity: 80 GB
Hard Drive Speed: 5400 rpm
Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon X600
Graphics Memory: 256
Screen Size: 17 inches
System Weight: 9.5 lbs
Type: Desktop Replacement, Gaming, High-end Multimedia, Media Center, Multimedia
Multimedia: Music: 96 Photos: 95 Video: 75 Gaming: 80
BatteryMark: 1:45
Dell Inspiron 9200
Price: $2,400 direct
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Home
Processor Class: Pentium M
Processor Speed: 2.1 GHz
RAM: 1024 MB
Hard Drive Capacity: 80 GB
Hard Drive Speed: 5400 rpm
Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
Graphics Memory: 128
Screen Size: 17 inches
System Weight: 8 lbs
Type: Desktop Replacement, Gaming, High-end Multimedia, Multimedia
Multimedia: Music: 69 Photos: 85 Video: 54 Gaming: 64
BatteryMark: 4:59
... Aside from battery life, it seesm that zd8000 has 9200 beat?
"We were very impressed with the image quality on the Dell UltraSharp screen when we played a DVD. We also like the convenient DVD-play and volume-control buttons and the Dell Media Experience 2.1 Deluxe software package, which makes editing and archiving photos and organizing music a breeze."
"...the Dell Inspiron 9200 is a great multimedia buy at a deal of a price."http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1723549,00.asp
Where did you hear about blurry images? The graphic card on the Dell is a higher end model and should be better (the video ram will only be any issue with a lot of textures, not really important for 3d unless you are baking a lot of things with large maps).
The speeds should be about the same, although that's just a guess.
Which ever you go with, I'd get XP Pro for better stability.
Did you apply that coupon? You have to check techbargains daily, as most sales only last a few days at most.
As a note, I am obviously biased towards Dell. HP makes good laptops, but I just don't have faith in their company as a whole. I've had great luck with all of Dell's products. I recommend buying on their business side (you'll pay taxes, although I think you'll pay taxes on ALL hp's 'cause they are sold in Best Buy and other retail stores, for the superb tech support that is only available on the business side - meaning you'll talk to someone in the US that is knowledgable and you won't wait on hold for more than a few minutes).
Eitherway, I am sure they are both superb systems. I'd love to hear which one you get and what you think. If you are really unsure, they both should offer 30 day returns with no questions.
Or you could look at the refurbished ones (like blue sent in). Some incredible deals, although with the techbargains you may be able to get a new one for less if you keep an eye out.
Look abouut half way down the right hand side for a list of Dell deals.
read the reviews from user's from the CNET review for what I had heard about the screen problem... did you not have that problem? Even 'doobs' (above) says that was an issue.
Also, CNet gave the HP zd8000 a better review. But again, I could easily lean toward the dell 9200 as it is a more attractive machine, but it just seems that the HP gets more consistently better reviews across different sites (CNet, PCMag, and Notebook Review) ...
If you can settle this blurry screen issue, the 9200 is back on my list. thanks!
I don't have it yet and am holding off for at least a few more weeks.
That's odd about the screen, as PCMag loved it. I tend to listen to reputable magazines over individual reviews, unless I can see for myself, and even then I'd want to play around with settings before I was satisfied it was the machine and not the user.
If I did buy one and websites were blurry, I'd want that fixed (whether it be a faulty screen or graphic card).
Perhaps I just have faith in the competency of large corps. Meaning that I can't imagine Dell, after holding off on a 17" laptop for so long, would come to market with a faulty product. That could be naive, but in general that philosophy works (at least with the top 3 companies in any given market).
I was looking at the HP, but had my fingers crossed that Dell would have one. I'd like to learn more about the blurry issue, too.
Maybe call Dell? Although they would probably just say it wasn't a problem.
There are the forums on PCMag too.
FYI, IBM has just put the version of the Thinkpad T42p with the FireGL T2 graphics card on sale this week. It's $1000 off, making it $2300 instead of $3300. It's competitive with machines from others (Dell M60, Sony A270) in the $2800 range.
It's got a 1.7MHz M processor, 1GB RAM, 60 GB of disk, etc.
The screen is 15.4", and though it doesn't look as spectacularly sharp as the sony xbrite, it's v nice nonetheless. I was afraid that the 1600 x 1200 resolution would be too miniscule, but I played with one for a half-hour or so and found it to be v clear.
I've used thinkpads in past, for 4 years or so (standard issue at a previous job), and generally found them to be solid.
Laptop finale
I have consumed all of the laptop threads on archinect and researched notebook reviews and think I am ready to purchase a laptop... (around $2000; I use CAD, 3dsMAX, Adobe, et al.)
Are there any final words of persuasion or dissuasion toward any of the following:
- Toshiba tecra M2
- Toshiba satellite M30/35 (?)
- IBM tHinkpad R50/51
- IBM thinkpad t42
please, mighty laptop junkies, speak.
toshiba
I was considering a purchase also. I was leaning toward a Sony VGN-A270
toshiba
IBM thinkpad t42
Hi Mason,
What ever laptop you buy, max out the graphics card to at least 128mb and max out Mermory to 1GB.
I just ordered the DEll 9200 for about $1800.00. Its a new model replacing the 9100, it now comes with a 17" screen and it went down in weight from 11lb to 8lb
Dell was running a 15% off sale, I think it is still going on
I second Blue-
My dell's have been rock solid and in price points they beat the IBM & Toshiba's hands down.
I don't think the brand matters all that much but what's under the hood is where you'll see the difference. Although I've never had issues with laptops, they do have a reputation for probs so an extra $100 for a 3 year warranty might be worth it. I once called Dell and said I though my LCD monitor was dimming. The next day some kid came to my house and put a new screen on free of charge. Make sure you get that kind of service - it's nice.
very helpful. thanks everyone.
i admit to a slight dell aversion, but i will consider it.
Yeah, we have a Toshiba that has had some kind of monitor defect since we got it. Had a warrenty and they "fixed" it but it still randomly turns off. Finally got something in the mail a week ago acknowledging a factory defect (3 years later), says we can send it to Toshiba to have it fixed... we only use it for word processing and internet though, so it's been ok.
for DELL buyers:
when u buy, look up "dell coupon" on google. Sites will give you a code for percentage off, usually around 15-20 percent;sometimes more. (this is usually takes place of the special offers, but saves you more money... test and see which will save u the most)
Only problem with dell's is that they are butt-ugly. This cheap-looking blue and grey metallic on their inspirons is enough to make me not want to have one.
Their Latitude's are nice though. But also more expensive.
I would go for the IBM t42. Probably the best quality laptop you can buy. And it's thin and light as well.
ap
I've got a Lattitude D800. It's been flawless, except for (very) occaisionally, I'll get booted to a different place in my text when I'm typing. It happens so infrequently, I doubt I could explain it to a tech rep.
Nice looking, too - widescreen.
f
The 9200 is pretty nice looking (considering it's a PC). It's a HUGE leap forwrad over the drab gray and blue of the other models.
The latest issue of PC Mag gives it their Editor's Choice. I am thinking of buying one because it's a screaming deal (2400 for the 2.1 P M, the fastest out there, 128 mb graphics, DVDRW and a 17" screen - not bad)
The code for the discount is: D81123z
Dell has a winner here (only thing that bothers me is that there is the 256 mb ATI card that the HP and Boxxtech have, but not a huge deal, 128 is pretty good).
Oh, stay away from the IBM R51 - it got the worst score of all the laptops (although they love the ultra portable IBMs, the rest are mediocre at best).
freq_arch: I'm willing to bet the unintentional relocations are when you're typing colons, semicolons, quotes, or fractions. I've had this happen in both Word and Autocad (mtext) and it can be maddening!
It doesn't seem to have to do with the model of laptop - I've had it happen on different brands - so I'm thinking it's a symptom of the Windows OS having gotten too 'smart' for its own good. Those symbols are some sort of trick code for 'jump up two lines and over 10 spaces'. Drives me crazy.
trace: which issue of PC Mag are you refering to. I would like to check that out...
(p.s. so you mean in the end .. it is really Dell that is the one to go with? Say it isnt so...)
Make sure you consider 64 bit in any laptop if you intend to use for cad or 3d. Bluetooth would be good too if you want to keep it for a while.
Toshiba and Dell both make good laptops for the money. Emachines has two great 64 bit laptops on the market for a little less money. They have come a long way from their reputation as a throw away computer maker.
I agree with the others on this thread. Go for the power and make sure the graphics card is dedicated and fully openGL compatible (not a game card).
Mason,
I've owned two dell laptops and both times I have experienced the best and worst of dell. In both cases the laptop has totally become fucked multiple times. I've had my 8600 for a little over a year and it is currently in the shop for the 3RD!!! time for the same exact problem : dim screen. Each time they say they are going to replace it and then I get it back and there's a note saying they just tightened a loose screw. That makes it work for a few weeks and then the screen goes dark again. On the plus end, they are cheap and when it has needed to be repaired, I've always gotten it back with 3 days (but that's probably because the don't really fix it). So, in summary, dells are cheap, powerful, break down, but the service is fast (but unreliable). The best and worst of it. Whatever you get, max out the graphics card and RAM.
Mason - it's PC Mag, Nov. 30th 2004
They compare desktops and laptops at different prices. I'll suggest to everyone - get a subscription. I am not a computer geek, by any means, and have a hell of a time with the tech side, but these mags have so many great articles and suggestins, it's easily worht the $20 a year (I think they are like 5-6 bucks each).
Alpha - the only machines available with 64 bit are AMD machines, and I don't know of many high end machines that use AMD.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about 64 bit for a laptop. It'll be so outdated by the time Windows 64 comes out and Max is rewritten for 64 bits (they have not announced anything, so it's at least a year away).
OpenGL - all new graphic cards should support it, including gaming cards. The Geforce series are essentail Quadros, and vice versa, with a few add ons (that the newer Geforce have, like supporting stereo projections - we have tried ALL the high end cards at work, from the top Quadros to the Geforces (there are about 30 Dell Dual 3.0+ with various cards, and we've done a lot of testing for real time big screen presentations), not much difference, at least not for arch viz).
To Andrew and anyone else looking: get a BUSINESS machine!! You can get the same computers (workstations are only sold on the business side), you only pay tax (not cheap), but you get the business tech support. I've got both, the business I get a knowledgeable American in less than 5-10 minutes that will walk me through anything, including my home Dell. The home side I get someone in India that keeps telling me I have to pay for info and NEVER is all that helpful. It's worth the money.
They also are there immediately. I had a graphic card go out in a workstation and a new one was at my door with a tech guy without 24 hours, and that was about 40 miles from any city. I was impressed.
I have an IBM and it is a beast. That thing takes a beating, getting lugged everywhere. Its thin, its light, and it is extreamly well made.
Im normally a sony person, but I love the Big Blue laptop I have.
i love love love my HP zd7000. it has a superwide 17" screen w/ bright view, great for dvds and acad. it is heavy, so it's more like a good desktop replacement than a light little carry everywhere laptop. i've had it 5 months and no problems yet.
Steven Ward:
Thanks for the insight. I don't recall that it happens when I use symbols like that, but my blind rage when it happens may be obscuring the facts a bit- I'll pay more attention.
You are right about the effect though - usually, I end up a couple of lines higher and somewhere in the middle of a word. Arrrgh!
I did suspect it might have to do with the keyboard type in my laptop.
Thanks again.
F
I just go my Dell 9200 about a week ago and I'm sad to say that it did not meet my high expectations. I ordered it with 1gig of Ram and the 128 video card so I thought I would have a pretty fast computer, especially since I'm coming from a 4 year old PIII desktop. Its faster then the desktop, but the 9200 feels slow when using Illustrator and Sketch-Up.
I think I should of ordered a laptop with the intel® Pentium® 4 chip and not Intel® Pentium® M Processor with centrino mobile technology.
Does anyone has any advice?
What is the deal with Centrino anyway? I haven't been following. Looks like the chip speeds have dropped but the prices have gone up, presumably because it's "integrated wireless technology"? What does that mean?
I've used an AMD 2.4Ghz desktop machine for several years now and it's still pretty sweet. But when I go to school I'll need a laptop, so I'm trying to stay tuned here...
Marc
YOU SHOULD BUY THIS:
OH MY WHAT NICE BABY YOU HAVE.
I have a Dell laptop which I am pretty happy with. My big problem with Dell is their customer support. Their customer service is all handled out of India. If you do have to call, be prepared to describe the problem 50 times, and be asked "how you are pleased with their performance" as many times.
Although not a Mac owner/lover my recent exp. with their tech. support when my iPod battery died, sure showed me what "real" customer service is!
I'm getting the Asus W1N in some config when I need to upgrade in the not so far future:
for those worried about the looks of dell, I'm sure there are mods you can get. Lets do a google search to see what we find...
I briefly considered Dell until, discovering that they make this monstrosity, reconfirmed my every prejudice against them:
The new Dell 9200 http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/inspn_9200?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
is not bad looking at all. Actually kind of nice.
You are right about that gaming machine, but all of their other ones are less obfensive.
although the Asus looks quite nice, i would hate to buy a computer on just looks ... and anyway i dont think the dell inspiron 9200 is too alarming.
has anyone worked with one of these things using 3d software, graphics, cad, etc.???
I just got a dell 9200. Works well with 3d programs, haven't rendered anything big yet. cad and graphic programs do well on it too. The strange thing is that a lot of graphic images on web pages such as the one posted above, come out kinda blurry. otherwise, i highly recommend it. actually looks nice considering it's a pc laptop(unlike the xps,yikes). I think this and the xps were the only ones with compatible video cards for maya. checked out most of the machines on this discussion and thought this was a good compromise.
doobs -
thanks. did you get the XGA or UXGA display?
mason
got the uxga display
its weird, that one costs $100 more but seems to be lower quality. what gives?
where is the perfect laptop/notebook when you need it, dammit?
I'd be cautious about laptops for 3D. I know there are good ones, I was going to get one. But when I saw they were $3000, I went desktop. The school put together deals for IBM PM 1.8s with 1GB RAM and 128 MB FireGLs. They do most things ok, but when you get into even just slightly larger renders they chug. And that's just Rhino. From what I understand, only Fire GLs and Quadros are fully compatable with Maya. You risk crashes with anything else. Plus, who wants to work on an image file on a 15 inch screen. So while laptops have a lot of advantages, for the cost, I don't think they are the ideal answer for design. For the same cost as a workstation class laptop I got a dual Opteron, 2 GB RAM, 128 MB Quadro 1100, 240 GB HDD (160 and an 80 GB), DVD-R, with a 19 inch flat panel. The thing flies. Although recently I bought a cheap Gateway laptop to pick up the slack. I.e., like when I fired out my 10 hour render this weekend, I could still work. My laptop is an AMD 64 3000+, 768 MB RAM, ATI 9600 64 MB with 60 GB HDD, DVD/CD-R with 15.4 Widescreen. Handles most things well, like PS, Ill, InD, DOOM3 and Rhino (renders slow)
nice this is a perfect thread to show to my parents...so they buy me a laptop for christmas. sweet!!!
I heavily recommend the HP Pavillion 7000, of which I bought my own a few months ago. You can find them refurbished (still with HP guarantee) on e-bay and elsewhere. I bought my own for $1400, it's a 3.06 GHz processor, with only 512 MB DDR RAM, but that is easily upgradeable. Today you can find considerably better ones at bargain prizes.
Their great advantage is the 17 inch widescreen display and fullsize keyboard, without them I don't think I could have managed with a laptop, considering all the CAD, rendering and illustrator work I do. Also, I don't fint the weight to be a problem at all.
One thing to keep in mind, if you plan to do renderings, don't consider a non-multithreading processor. They are well worth the money, that extra bucket is priceless.
all my research seems to be pointing to the new HP Pavilion z8000 as a mighty machine.
any owners that swear by it or swear at it?
mason-
ill swear by my hp zt3000. its slightly different than the zd8000, smaller screen, lighter, thinner, and pentium M chip instead of 4. im loving every minute of using this computer...hasnt let me down yet (bought it in the summer). i just wish my graphics card was more than 64mb. anyway, i researched forever...comparing toshiba, sony, dell, hp, ibm etc etc. hp offered me the same configurations for less so i went with them. dells have always been trouble and the others are just a little to expensive for my liking. anyway, zd8000 looks good to me!
hey justavisual.. what programs do u run on that computer and how well do they run?
good question. what programs, justavisual?
and can someone settle this pent.M vs. pent.4 thing for laptops... any experts?
Mason,
I'm not an expert but I just returned my 9200 Dell laptop (with the Pent. M chip) after it had a hard time running SketchUp and Illustrator files. The bottom line was that the laptop felt slow. I ordered it with a 1gig or RAM and a 128 video card. It totally surprised me that it could not handle the programs I was using. I must say that the 17" screen was great and the sound from the speakers were pretty good. But, I need and want something that can handle 3D modelling programs. I felt it was my fault for ordering the 9200 with the Pent. M chip. I should of known better. But it looked great. I'm looking at the HP zd8000 now. If you compare prices its a better deal then Dell XPS with comparable components.
as far as architecture related stuff....mostly ive been running CAD 2005, photoshop, illustrator and sketch up.
i havent had any problems yet with my configuration when running these programs thus far...it gets a little slow sometimes, but then again what computer doesnt? im just glad i dont have to deal with the computers in the overcrowded PC lab @ school anymore.
heres what ive got:
intel pentium M 1.8GHz (you can get up to 2.10 now)
1 GB RAM
60 GB 5400 RPM hard drive (faster spinning=better)
DVD+RW/R & CD-RW combo drive
intel pro wireless 2200 802.11 b/g & bluetooth
15.4" screen (1680x1050)
64 MB ATI 9200 graphics card
so this difference between 4 and M...
pentium 4 is basically the next step in the regular old line of intel chips, predecesor being P3, which have always been used in desktops, but its just used in laptops too.
the pentium M is a chip designed specifically for laptops and mobility...it's more energy efficient (ie extended battery power), produces less heat, and works better with wireless.
so if you plan on using your laptop really as a laptop go with M. if its just gonna be sitting on your table taking the place of a desktop you might as well save money and get a pent4 chip.
a 'slower' pentium M chip is still comparable to the pent 4 with a 'higher' GHz from what i can gather.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0%2Caid%2C117975%2C00.asp
http://www.iconusersgroup.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=93
http://news.com.com/Intel+wireless+plans+begin+with+new+chip/2100-1006_3-991566.html
blue - I think you may have been expecting too much. I have an old PIII 933 with 512 mb and it's a dog compared to my dual 2.2 and dual 3.0, but it still works. It'll still work with 1 gig PS files or 100mb Max files, it's just slower.
I believe a Centrino 1.4 equates to about a 2.7, or something close to that (in PCMag they compared the performance a while ago). So basically you are saying a P4 2.7 is too slow. That's high expectations!
One problem with the P4's is their heat. They aren't made for tight spots so they'll get much hotter, and then the machine will slow itself down to keep it cool, negating any performance gain. At least that's what I've read in the PCMag editorails.
Glad you returned it, though, as it will mean I can get a nice refurbished models for pennies of what you paid.
For those that don't know, ALWAYS go to http://www.techbargains.com . They have had $700+ off on 9200's. The one I spec'd out would have saved me over a grand!! Just add the configured laptop to your cart, go through till the end, and copy and paste the code from techbargains and hit 'apply'. Damn simple and Dell never advertises any of these discounts.
I've been researching laptops for over a year and the Dell get's the highest marks in the reviews and is the most affordable, not to mention the better tech support. Right now, I am just hoping a 256 mb graphics card will come out.
Oh, just keep an eye on the graphics cards with the HPs. PCMag gave them poor marks compared to the 9200 because their card was so inferior (even though it was a 256 vs. Dell's 128). I think it was the November issue that compared them - Dell beat all in the 17" segment.
this is very helpful, thanks everyone.
My biggest reservation about the Dell 9200 (besides talking to probably the dumbest telelphone sales person I have ever spoken to) is this issue with the screen. Everyone talks about how images look blurry on screen with the Del 9200... That seems somewhat basic.
Here is the info I got from PCMag:
HP Pavilion zd8000
Price: $2,350 direct
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Media Center
Processor Class: Mobile Pentium 4
Processor Speed: 3.4 GHz
RAM: 1024 MB
Hard Drive Capacity: 80 GB
Hard Drive Speed: 5400 rpm
Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon X600
Graphics Memory: 256
Screen Size: 17 inches
System Weight: 9.5 lbs
Type: Desktop Replacement, Gaming, High-end Multimedia, Media Center, Multimedia
Multimedia: Music: 96 Photos: 95 Video: 75 Gaming: 80
BatteryMark: 1:45
Dell Inspiron 9200
Price: $2,400 direct
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Home
Processor Class: Pentium M
Processor Speed: 2.1 GHz
RAM: 1024 MB
Hard Drive Capacity: 80 GB
Hard Drive Speed: 5400 rpm
Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
Graphics Memory: 128
Screen Size: 17 inches
System Weight: 8 lbs
Type: Desktop Replacement, Gaming, High-end Multimedia, Multimedia
Multimedia: Music: 69 Photos: 85 Video: 54 Gaming: 64
BatteryMark: 4:59
... Aside from battery life, it seesm that zd8000 has 9200 beat?
"PCI Express graphics from the 256MB ATI Mobility Radeon X600 card. But its gaming test scores were average, because of its basic X600 GPU."
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1706542,00.asp
"We were very impressed with the image quality on the Dell UltraSharp screen when we played a DVD. We also like the convenient DVD-play and volume-control buttons and the Dell Media Experience 2.1 Deluxe software package, which makes editing and archiving photos and organizing music a breeze."
"...the Dell Inspiron 9200 is a great multimedia buy at a deal of a price."http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1723549,00.asp
Where did you hear about blurry images? The graphic card on the Dell is a higher end model and should be better (the video ram will only be any issue with a lot of textures, not really important for 3d unless you are baking a lot of things with large maps).
The speeds should be about the same, although that's just a guess.
Which ever you go with, I'd get XP Pro for better stability.
Did you apply that coupon? You have to check techbargains daily, as most sales only last a few days at most.
As a note, I am obviously biased towards Dell. HP makes good laptops, but I just don't have faith in their company as a whole. I've had great luck with all of Dell's products. I recommend buying on their business side (you'll pay taxes, although I think you'll pay taxes on ALL hp's 'cause they are sold in Best Buy and other retail stores, for the superb tech support that is only available on the business side - meaning you'll talk to someone in the US that is knowledgable and you won't wait on hold for more than a few minutes).
Eitherway, I am sure they are both superb systems. I'd love to hear which one you get and what you think. If you are really unsure, they both should offer 30 day returns with no questions.
Or you could look at the refurbished ones (like blue sent in). Some incredible deals, although with the techbargains you may be able to get a new one for less if you keep an eye out.
Look abouut half way down the right hand side for a list of Dell deals.
trace - thanks.
read the reviews from user's from the CNET review for what I had heard about the screen problem... did you not have that problem? Even 'doobs' (above) says that was an issue.
Also, CNet gave the HP zd8000 a better review. But again, I could easily lean toward the dell 9200 as it is a more attractive machine, but it just seems that the HP gets more consistently better reviews across different sites (CNet, PCMag, and Notebook Review) ...
If you can settle this blurry screen issue, the 9200 is back on my list. thanks!
(by "more consistely better" i meant "better reviews more consistently" ... english can be a struggle before coffee. let me remedy that...)
I don't have it yet and am holding off for at least a few more weeks.
That's odd about the screen, as PCMag loved it. I tend to listen to reputable magazines over individual reviews, unless I can see for myself, and even then I'd want to play around with settings before I was satisfied it was the machine and not the user.
If I did buy one and websites were blurry, I'd want that fixed (whether it be a faulty screen or graphic card).
Perhaps I just have faith in the competency of large corps. Meaning that I can't imagine Dell, after holding off on a 17" laptop for so long, would come to market with a faulty product. That could be naive, but in general that philosophy works (at least with the top 3 companies in any given market).
I was looking at the HP, but had my fingers crossed that Dell would have one. I'd like to learn more about the blurry issue, too.
Maybe call Dell? Although they would probably just say it wasn't a problem.
There are the forums on PCMag too.
FYI, IBM has just put the version of the Thinkpad T42p with the FireGL T2 graphics card on sale this week. It's $1000 off, making it $2300 instead of $3300. It's competitive with machines from others (Dell M60, Sony A270) in the $2800 range.
It's got a 1.7MHz M processor, 1GB RAM, 60 GB of disk, etc.
The screen is 15.4", and though it doesn't look as spectacularly sharp as the sony xbrite, it's v nice nonetheless. I was afraid that the 1600 x 1200 resolution would be too miniscule, but I played with one for a half-hour or so and found it to be v clear.
I've used thinkpads in past, for 4 years or so (standard issue at a previous job), and generally found them to be solid.
Looks like a good deal to me.
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