We need to do what it takes, not what is comfortable - The job of an architect, is to be good problem solver - complainers don't solve problems and therefore can't be architects because they capitulate to situations rather than solve them.

"there are no problems, only solutions" John Lennon

.

but we are proposing solutions...much of the advice given on these threads is supportive...encouraging people to get licensed, work independently, and change the top-down structures that don't let architects develop or advance properly. that's a simplification, but there's a lot good discussion going on on here...

i think it's helpful to expose the problems. a lot of people might think it's just them 'complaining', when really there are serious, structural flaws.

people obviously deal with things in different ways...some see benefits to focusing on immediate goals to get through a bad situation, others find benefits in open discussion of all kinds, from measured to emotional. since i'm (obviously) one of the latter, i have to admit that i am just as mystified and sometimes put off by those who can keep quiet and keep working given the current state of things as you are by those who complain about it.

'The reality that has passed and the reality that is now, we cannot escape'

i really don't agree with this. if this is what you believe, do you really think there are solutions (other than just forging ahead and sucking it up?)

i think it's much easier to escape any reality than most people think. there are so many realities. accepting things as they are is, in my opinion, part of the problem.

"We need to do what it takes, not what is comfortable - The job of an architect, is to be good problem solver - complainers don't solve problems and therefore can't be architects because they capitulate to situations rather than solve them."

LOL. a=b, b=c and therefore c=a.

but in the spirit of your proposal, some tips on how to change your situation, with the eventual goal of changing the larger situation:

-if you don't like what you're doing, DO SOMETHING ELSE. this may mean moving on to something more uncertain within architecture, or venturing outside of architecture for a while, even if you love it. you'll never have a reason (or the energy) to take a risk if you spend 10 hours a day in a cubicle. i've found that as a shy, reticent person, the best way to force myself to do something scary is to put myself in a position where i have no other choice but to sink or swim.

-realize that there are an infinite number of subcultures and sub-worlds in the world, and that it's a LARGE WORLD. if you work at SOM, they'll probably convince you that the SOM way is the only way. Same for almost every other firm. this may be useful within their office, but really it's just a lie. if you can't get work doing what you've been doing, try pairing your architectural skills with other skills. (then eventually you can create a world of your very own! :)

-cultivate other skills. we are always told as architects that we all need the same set of skills...CD and CA experience, detailing skills, project management skills, blah blah blah. so we all believed this and there are now thousands of us out there with nothing to do and the same set of skills to offer. so put together a set of skills all those others don't have, and pitch it to people.

-don't ever make professional decisions out of fear. fear of your boss, fear of losing your job, fear of not getting a good reference, fear of never getting work again. there's no permanent record, really nobody cares.

-don't be afraid to accept help from others while you're figuring things out. let your husband/wife pay bills for a while, eat ramen noodles, take that 'loan' from dad, even if you're 35. this doesn't make you a loser, as long as you're trying to come up with a workable plan.

-ask all your friends and all your wife's friends and all your parents' friends if they need architectural work done. someone probably will.

-there's no point trying to change your firm/your former firm/other firms. make your own way, and propose alternatives through your work and your mode of practice. fuck those other guys and stop giving them your ideas/efforts/labor/time.

just my two cents...everyone else is very free to argue/disagree.

Well that's easy to say Ichweib when you have a job....

ichweib - you are young, haven't been out there long, probably have minimal expenses, etc., etc. give it some time, you will be bitter too :-)

archinect changes a lot over the years, both with the times and the posters. when i first started contributing here regularly we were trying to save breuer's grosse pointe public library, talking theory, and trying to understand the relevence of bim (and of course deciding which grad school to attend). now we primarily talk about lay-offs, portfolios and professional practice (but are still asking ourselves which grad school to attend). many of the posters who contributed regularly when i first started are gone and a new crop has emerged. i do think the tone of the discussions has in general become more negative, but again, it's probably a sign of the times.

The principal of a 100-person, multi-office firm recently told me that this profession has seen a loss of 30% of its employment positions due to this recession and he, for one, thinks those positions will never come back.

I agree with him, with the caveat that this prediction applies only to traditional practice jobs in firms. I think those 30% of people can and will and ARE finding non-traditional ways to practice that aren't so rigidly defined as "architecture = designing a building" but are more fluid with how design ideas can be applied. As my new Swedish architecture friends said, architecture can solve any physical problem - which might be a bike parking facility, or developing a weirdly-shaped piece of land, or the efficient organization of boxes in a warehouse, or a new deck for an in-law, or a T-shirt graphic.

I for one am pessimistic about the existing profession but very optimistic about the ways the profession is evolving away from being merely a "professional" endeavor.

Donna - literally was looking at a chart today on the US Bureau of Labor's architecture employment stats. If I can figure out the original source, I'll post it, but here are the highlights:

From Jan 05 to the peak employment (July 08), the number of employed architects went from 185k to 220k. As of Dec. 10, we're at 153k. So, we've lost 2x as many jobs as we added during one of the flushest times this profession has ever seen. Never mind how many new graduates and underemployed people there are who don't show.

Few of you know what my previous 'anonymous' moniker was on here, but I'm more excited about the possibilities going forward than I've ever been. Count me fully in the camp of stepping outside that traditional box. And, count me in the camp of saying good riddance to the firms that are, quite frankly, holding our entire profession back. I'm thrilled to see a new guard coming in (not just globally, but here in town) and to see the cream of the existing firms keep rising to the top.

It's an amazing time if you've got the stomach to just step off the cliff and seek to make things happen. I mean, we just landed 7 new jobs this month - we have enough backlog for the rest of the year already, just hired one person and will probably need to add another sometime soon. And this is for some crazy work far outside our normal boundaries (can anyone say 9 acre indoor parking facility?). My goal is to assemble even more amazing talent in the office and figure out how to reshape the region. Ego anyone?

If you just want someone to hand you a secure 9-5 job at great pay... it's going to be a rough few years. That world, for all service professionals, is slowly unwinding.

"I for one am pessimistic about the existing profession but very optimistic about the ways the profession is evolving away from being merely a "professional" endeavor." Amen sister...

IchweiBnichts: You just don't get it. A good therapist costs money, while archinect is only $2.99/year. Where am I supposed to vent? At least archinect understands the archi-speak. My therapist gets lost at first mention of tectonic assemblage.

You have a crappy job? Good on you! There are still 100's of crappy jobs out there with 1000's of candidates begging for them. If you have even a basic grasp of math, you would understand the problem.

Architecture jobs are like women. All the good ones are taken, and as soon as one becomes available, it gets snatched up by someone more willing and desperate than you. ha!

We just witnessed (in the last decade) the greatest money-shift pyramid-scheme America has ever seen. It goes far beyond the construction industry. Bitching ONLY about architecture seems silly now. But that's our only expertise. What's your point?

Archinect is doing nothing more than reflecting the state of the industry. Feel free to ignore 'all ze negativity'.

Dick.

I am very happy about negativity. Keep it coming.

amazingly enough, you have the option of not reading negative archinect threads.

I can't change the past-I do believe the future is now so I could have worded it differently. All I meant was that I cannot change the past, but I / we can work to create a better future (for the children and the Iraq and other countries such as...).

And yes-I know the discussion isn't just about an overhaul with our profession-I recognize there has been a fundamental shift in so many aspects of the "system."

oh to be young and a recent grad again... I'm very optimistic about the transformation that is happening in architecture. IchweiB, you have to take the good with the bad ignoring one or the other means you're not getting the whole picture.

Like trolling, calling someone is an act of trolling. Likewise, creating threads about how much a community sucks increases the suckitude of the community.

There have been plenty of good discussions in the past two weeks-- the education debate on Thread Central, the "why the window is cold thread," and several others. The muppet thread is looking pretty stellar, too.

But it all requires active participation for everyone who is a member.

Posting on the internet literally takes seconds. Some of us abuse this (looking around, looking at myself, looking around: J'accuse et Je m'accuse!) while others are more reserved. Some claim to not like to be involved while others claim they don't have the time.

Whatever the case, there are plenty of threads that simply slip through the cracks that are actually worthy threads and that are actually relevant to architecture.

Portfolio threads fall into three categories-- the best, the above average and the ugly. Like any rhetoric on the internet, discussion gravitates towards extremes. So, many are quick to congratulate or piss on the very good or the very bad. However, many portfolios of above average quality rarely get anything because they don't really excite any emotion.

As far as tongue-in-cheek, snark and general mean-spiritedness (je m'accuse), it is sometimes warranted. Rather than take it personally, one should self-reflect about why that particular action was taken.

If someone shits on your thread, you should wonder 'why.' For instance, "20% of electrical thread' was a thread with merit but warranted snark. The obvious answer is "contact the appropriate authorities." However, the snark hints that there are more than one way of doing this.

As far as any thread of incendiary political discourse or emotional pleas regarding the status of the market-- these threads are highly irrational, illogical and sometimes ill-informed. If you accept that the thread is the equivalent of a bull with alligator clips on his nutsack in a china shop ... they're actually quite fun to poke and prod in.

Most of all, we also have a lot of people of varying intellectual, educational and professional capacities. So, naturally, some of us don't understand tone, frame of reference or bodies of work regarding these topics. A discussion on say educational may be read a surface level issue (staff compensation), a structural issue (what is a school and why is it good or bad?) or an institutional issue (how do schools spend money, how do we pay for schools).

I am usually not so blunt, but when you get to sit and cast dispersions from your paycheck providing job and ponder about helping "for the children and the Iraq and other countries such as..." I just want to say "Shut the fuck UP!" Please don't be-little us with some quote from an idiot Miss America contestant.

Sorry if the bitching and moaning is annoying you. Clue bus stop: Don't read em!

We didn't create this problem, but we sure are suffering for it. While Wall Street still is collecting yet again record paychecks and bonus, but reinvesting nothing in the future of this country, how should I presume it will get better. I may as well hike to tropical Mexico, build a wood hut on the beach and spend the rest of my life fishing for dinner.

"We didn't create this problem."

I bet you your stamp you, at least, helped.

ichweiB has a point. A lot of our venting on here really just diminishes our profession, for ourselves and anyone who just might misspell architect in their search engine. I don´t think bitterness is inevitable like some of you veterans might claim. I know a lot of people kicking ass as architects and are not bitter in the least. Unfortunately they probably have better things to do than hang out in the forum. My excuse.. I´m overseas and I like to read what people are talking about.

at Pencil Pusher, please do go to Mexico. That plan sounds amazing. Perhaps that was a Freudian slip. And speaking of the problems we are suffering from, this article really got me thinking last night. Everyone should read it.

http://www.archdaily.com/116844/the-indicator-the-next-architecture-part-1/

And then you go on to link to an article that reads as a communist manifesto. Nothing in that article is news to anyone who hasn't had their head in the sand for the last, well, forever. The article contains a laundry list of what people complain here about. Overworked, underpaid, exploited through registration process, etc...

What exactly is YOUR point? If lack of reading comprehension is it, then you've delivered it quite well.

Oh, did you miss MY point? Should I tell you about how I need a therapist?.. but can't afford one. Poor thing, having to rant on the internet to feel better.

Or should I go on to compare architecture jobs to women? Seriously rusty, it's not like what you contribute to these threads is a.. hmm, high demonstration of reading comprehension. But don't worry, none needed. After all, this is just your place to vent with your sophisticated archi-speak.

A good reminder that bitching solves nothing. Still there is much to bitch about.

Stepping back to take in the big picture it is worth thinking about the diminishing returns of technology. Have we reached that point? Both blue and white collar jobs are now being offshored. This enriches the top 1% while slitting everyone else's throat. Computers enable work to be done faster and faster using less man power at time when what we need are more jobs. I am not saying we should go back to the drafting board. What happens when the next generation of software comes out that makes designing a project 50% faster? Admittedly I have lots of questions and no answers. Another good question in regards to that Indian guy with the $60B skyscraper for a house: Is unlimited wealth sustainable on a finite planet? I don't think we should all have the same amount of wealth, but we are heading towards dangerous amounts of income disparity.

vatoloco, I was merely pointing out that what you said and what you linked to were in direct contradiction. Sorry you feel so butt-hurt over that.

My therapist says that your inability to recognize humor may be another tell-tale sign of low intelligence.

Now at the risk of exposing myself as a fool or a dreamer I will post some of my recent musings. They range from schemes and fantasies to more practical considerations. It will probably take me another 4 years to complete the B. Arch. A lot of my energy these days goes into figuring out how I will provide for myself and my family when my education is complete. I am not counting on a resurgent economy and fear Donna Sink may be right when she says those jobs are never coming back. If I graduated now my loan payment will be $300/month for 10 years. With the amount of coursework I have left that is going to grow substantially unless I am able to earn a good income while studying :( As a side note how many other students know what their loan repayment will be?

Can I just take 6 college credits for the rest of my life and never repay school loans?

Instead of pouring all my energy into learning about architecture should I be equally concerned with networking? Someone here mentioned that if you are the person who can bring a job into an office you will always have a paycheck. I wanted to give credit but can't find it in my notes right now (yes I have notes from archinect. It might be time for therapy)

Should I start drawing home plans now? I realize this market is in serious decline also.

Architect as developer/Jonathon Segal. Very interesting. A difficult path and another reeling from this economy.

Architect as builder/ Steve Badanes. I discovered I am not great at swinging the hammer, but think I could become sufficient given enough time and a patient teacher. I plan to do some more volunteering with Habitat this spring. Employment prospects in construction seem to be as bad as in architecture.

The "inshore" office - A license and in the US, a production office located someplace with a really low cost of living and decent quality of life. Does such a place exist? Instead of just offshoring to an Asian sweatshop you could work directly with the same production staff on all projects.

The collaborative - you keep the small projects coming in while teaming up with other solos to chase after larger and more lucrative projects.

i'd differentiate between bitching, which happens here, too, and mourning and grief, which i would say happens here most of the time. People are beside themselves at how an investment of so much time, money and personal sacrifice can turn into a large personal and professional loss so quickly, the burden of which may be carried for years to come and impacts not only the individuals ranting but their families as well. This is exacerbated by the knowledge that a good part of the problem is structural and endemic in the profession, the knowledge of which can elicit feelings of helplessness and resentment.

So go easy on people venting. Given the circumstances, it is entirely understandable and warranted.

But you are correct, at some point everyone has to move on to new topics and opportunities. Doing so offers the greatest chance of cultivating a better future.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that these threads are actually giving out a lot of insider information and experience. They will give a new person to the profession of Architecture a leg up on others. So, all the people that haven't yet worked out there or have yet to graduate from college should be very thankful to us for letting them in on this information which only comes to a person after grinding his or her teeth working out there for at least a few years. You're all welcome.

@ Rusty. My butt is in serious pain. You are so clever. But I Do recognize humor. I find your admitted frustrations with dating pretty funny. All the good ones taken huh? Damn. Well, there's always EHarmony or Match.com right? I'm sure the ladies will love your brave intellect. And since you're such a fan of forums, well, I can only imagine the hours you'll spend chatting them up. And then you won't have to bore your imaginary therapist with the things I write. Life will be much more interesting.

@ Jbushkey. If you have your ncarb file/ idp going before you volunteer with habitat, you can get hours credited (after graduation). But you have another 4 years to go? So I take it you just started. If you're already worrying about paying back student loans (smart) as well as the very low income that architects earn fresh out of school (and beyond), are you sure you want to keep going in this profession? It's not too late to change majors. Personally, considering all the negative aspects of this profession, I still love what I do and I have no regrets. But as you can see here, everyone has their own story.

In terms of networking, people might not take you too seriously at this point due to the fact that you're still at the beginning of your education as an architect. However, I'd keep up with all the relatives and friends that are well connected, who may need an architect in the future. In 4 years, the economy may be better, but if this recession has taught us anything, it's that the boom times don't last forever and you need to be prepared.

I wouldn't be too worried about the software. At the end of the day, you still need designers to make architecture happen. New tools will enable us to work faster. I see this as a positive thing. I think we'll see dramatic improvements in BIM, so keep up with those programs as best as you can.

Lastly, talk to young architects. Get their opinions. Find a type of mentor, maybe 5-10 years out of school, that doesn't mind shooting the breeze and giving you some pointers and sharing experiences. I wouldn't rely on this site as a go to for REAL advice.

Ok Rusty, let's see what you've got.

My imaginary internet gf says I lost this intense battle of wits. Well played vatoloco. You should post more informative links. Don't even bother reading them. Why start now?

the tension of this foreplay is palpable!

just #$@#$/ already

vat, are you saying we are not REAL or don't give REAL advice? Please.

The advice you find here is often times jaded and bitter, but more times it is blatantly honest, people can afford to tell the "truth" here. It is as REAL as you are going to get, from many people, from many places.

@ Trace. Just saying don't pass up the human element before hitting the forum, especially for someone with one year of school under their belt. Sure this website has a lot of informative posts. But it takes a lot of sifting through sarcastic bs before getting to anything worthwhile. More often than not, you get all the usual suspects cracking jokes before anyone offers up real advice. That's it. I know you all are real. So am I. So is Rusty.

Hey Rusty. I'll pick you up at 8. Wear something nice.

"I got out of graduate school right when the bottom fell out of our economic system. For myself, like many others, the circumstances have been incredibly challenging. Somehow, I managed to get get a job and keep it. I watched people get laid off. I sat through firm wide meetings and listened to our CEO be as encouraging as he could along with the partners as we all sat around wondering who would be next and how many it would be.

I have appreciated the discussions on Archinect for quite some time, but honestly, I am getting really sick of the ones that center around bitching about how bad it sucks out there. I am not trying to diminish the reality of things or pretend that everything is "ok" when in many ways, it is not. I also recognize that it is helpful for us to be able to express our frustrations. The truth is that it has been going on for quite some time and will continue to be difficult in the future. The reality that has passed and the reality that is now, we cannot escape; however, I do believe we can contribute to the future reality that is becoming (no I don't want to run for president).

Why not use the forum to discuss ways to make things change? There are so many issues that get brought up on this website about what we are so dissatisfied about-I suggest we begin the discussion as to how to combat those things we are so upset and or dissatisfied with."


Translation: I'm not trying to dimish the realities and pretend things are ok but I'll just do it anyway..

Fuck that - You try being on the wrong end of the chopping block when the axe falls and then come back here and preach your cute little idealistic rant.

ichweiss--for your first few years in this profession, you can effectively rationalize any experience you have by saying you are 'learning'. after you've done exactly the same things for a while without any appreciable benefit, you'll see what we're all bitching about. (not that i wish that on you...)

oh, also, the 'somehow' behind why you managed to get a job and keep it is because as a new graduate, you are CHEAPER and EASIER TO CONTROL than older, more experienced employees. no one wants to believe this, but it's true. and in a few years, there will be others who are cheaper and more manageable than you.

from RIBA in the News seems appropriate. Small, local, nimble design firms and huge international business-driven firms, that's the future.

Donna... that article sums up a lot of what I've been saying on the subject.

I'd also add "multilateral" approaches there too. I'd use interdisciplinary as a moniker but I feel it doesn't do the process justice as it suggests differing specialties working to solve a single problem.

Rather what I'm suggestion is multiple collaborative teams solving different problems that forms a comprehensive single solution.

I.e., the diversification of firms both small and big into similarly related endeavors (real estate development, marketing, product design, process design [industrial], technology development).

when a random job query search for architect returns countless IT jobs but no jobs for actual architects, and ARCHITECT magazine defends it, you know there is a serious flaw in the clout of our profession

knock,

your fault for not knowing java and pear programming.

Polish up on your python scripting and workstation admin, and you won't have to complain so much. Just get with the times already!