"in any other industry the company in question would find itself sued out of business so fast its stock wouldn't even have time to tank"
Fortunatelly, architecture firms don't manage to enter the stock exchange market, they don't have to be afraid of this kind of problems...
Fair maybe compared to ours, but it sounds like the average is 45K for the younger ones and they are working 7 days a week... Those of you who voted Republican this election (I know few on Archinect but still), this is the kind of system the party is pushing to allow across the boards (overhead exemption for almost everyone working in technology, professional fields, etc.). You can say "put your foot down or leave" all you want but it's not the reality. At the very least employers should be forced to state in writing the hours per week that will be expected of their employees before they hire them. It's just underhanded greedy business practices and it pisses me off.
I was recently at a conference where it was discussed how the number of people taking the ARE are declining at what some consider "a dangerous rate." Number one reason for people not going into traditional practice was cited as compensation.
If this is standard for the gaming industry then I'm sure they will lose people just as supposedly we are in architecture. Give it time.
What's ironic is that in this conference one of the places many arch grads were said to be going was the gaming industry. One hell of a catch 22 for us architecture degree types. I've also heard that starting salary is right around $60k or about 2x starting intern architect pay.
That is interesting to hear, although i don't know that it is really a problem if less people are taking the ARE. From my vantage point of having a young practice, there just isn't a very high demand for architectural services, on the residential end anyway.
As to the gamers salaries, I thought they were lot higher than ours as well but I spent quite a long time reading posts in response to ea_spouse and was surprised to find out it was lower than I thought. But really I think the important thing is that it should be standard practice for companies to explain to potential employees what they are signing up for. My personal belief is that people should be compensated for all the time they work, whether it be overtime pay, comp time, bonuses etc. And it should be clearly spelled out in advance. I think it makes people feel they are valued and want to do their work. If people are willing to work 80 hours a week, fine by me, but they should be paid fairly.
The problem is that a lot of companies, architecture firms included (including 2 of 3 firms I worked for), will list a salary and maybe potential bonuses but not be forthcoming in terms of what the expected work hours will be. They then set up a climate in which you are demoted, left off projects, made to feel like you aren't carrying your weight etc. if you refuse to work the extra hours. At both of the offices I worked in right out of school, I was offered an hourly rate, which they used to base my salary on (I thought I would be paid hourly but was not). I was then expected to work more than 40 hours per week not really realizing until it was too late what I had agreed to. Of course I could have just quit, but it's not that simple when you have bills to pay. At one place I did refuse to work week-ends even though they tried to guilt me into it all the time and also asked for a raise to compensate me for the extra hours worked, and I was eventually laid off.
I learned my lesson and at the next place I went made sure I was paid overtime and did my own research as to the work hours before I agreed to work there. If an entire industry operates the same way though it's hard to look elsewhere. My feeling is that the game developers will end up unionizing in the same way the special effects artists for the motion picture/television industry are. Gaming generates such huge profits that I don't think they will let people go - they will be forced to adapt, and it will only come about if the employees demand it.
rudolph, i agree with companies being upfront and honestly communicating what the employees are in for. while i was working at one unmentioned firm, the boss said he was putting his foot down on all of the overtime, and in particular, weekend time. one month later, our team was working 70-80 hour a week. we did this for 4 months straight. when we met our deadline, the boss had the project architect tell us what a great job we did and to take the next 2 days off. i was pissed. 2 days? and you couldn't even tell us yourself? while i had no expectation or desire for him to give us all of our time back, i was disappointed that he did nothing to stick by his word and even more so that he had the project architect tell us about our 2 days off.
i went to speak to him and express my displeasure in a calm, reasonable, and thoughtful manner. he asked, well what would you do if you were in my shoes? i said, well, i would give us our weekend time back since you went back on your word. he agreed, and we agreed to a schedule for the team to take the time off so that it would not compromise other projects. i thought that was an incredible thing that he did in the end.
Deadlines, Lowpay and Longhours = Architects
The 3D, and Gamers Make alot more money.
Its like playing Video games for Money.
Like everything else it is Supply and demand.
Alot of Vo Tech Schools are Teaching 3D
& are Flooding the Market.
Nov 18, 04 8:55 pm ·
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They have it worse than us...
"in any other industry the company in question would find itself sued out of business so fast its stock wouldn't even have time to tank"
Fortunatelly, architecture firms don't manage to enter the stock exchange market, they don't have to be afraid of this kind of problems...
Social structures enforced and practiced through history. whaddya do? get a gov job.
EA I thought just laid of 600 or 6000 artists
These guys make fair Salary
Fair maybe compared to ours, but it sounds like the average is 45K for the younger ones and they are working 7 days a week... Those of you who voted Republican this election (I know few on Archinect but still), this is the kind of system the party is pushing to allow across the boards (overhead exemption for almost everyone working in technology, professional fields, etc.). You can say "put your foot down or leave" all you want but it's not the reality. At the very least employers should be forced to state in writing the hours per week that will be expected of their employees before they hire them. It's just underhanded greedy business practices and it pisses me off.
I was recently at a conference where it was discussed how the number of people taking the ARE are declining at what some consider "a dangerous rate." Number one reason for people not going into traditional practice was cited as compensation.
If this is standard for the gaming industry then I'm sure they will lose people just as supposedly we are in architecture. Give it time.
What's ironic is that in this conference one of the places many arch grads were said to be going was the gaming industry. One hell of a catch 22 for us architecture degree types. I've also heard that starting salary is right around $60k or about 2x starting intern architect pay.
That is interesting to hear, although i don't know that it is really a problem if less people are taking the ARE. From my vantage point of having a young practice, there just isn't a very high demand for architectural services, on the residential end anyway.
As to the gamers salaries, I thought they were lot higher than ours as well but I spent quite a long time reading posts in response to ea_spouse and was surprised to find out it was lower than I thought. But really I think the important thing is that it should be standard practice for companies to explain to potential employees what they are signing up for. My personal belief is that people should be compensated for all the time they work, whether it be overtime pay, comp time, bonuses etc. And it should be clearly spelled out in advance. I think it makes people feel they are valued and want to do their work. If people are willing to work 80 hours a week, fine by me, but they should be paid fairly.
The problem is that a lot of companies, architecture firms included (including 2 of 3 firms I worked for), will list a salary and maybe potential bonuses but not be forthcoming in terms of what the expected work hours will be. They then set up a climate in which you are demoted, left off projects, made to feel like you aren't carrying your weight etc. if you refuse to work the extra hours. At both of the offices I worked in right out of school, I was offered an hourly rate, which they used to base my salary on (I thought I would be paid hourly but was not). I was then expected to work more than 40 hours per week not really realizing until it was too late what I had agreed to. Of course I could have just quit, but it's not that simple when you have bills to pay. At one place I did refuse to work week-ends even though they tried to guilt me into it all the time and also asked for a raise to compensate me for the extra hours worked, and I was eventually laid off.
I learned my lesson and at the next place I went made sure I was paid overtime and did my own research as to the work hours before I agreed to work there. If an entire industry operates the same way though it's hard to look elsewhere. My feeling is that the game developers will end up unionizing in the same way the special effects artists for the motion picture/television industry are. Gaming generates such huge profits that I don't think they will let people go - they will be forced to adapt, and it will only come about if the employees demand it.
rudolph, i agree with companies being upfront and honestly communicating what the employees are in for. while i was working at one unmentioned firm, the boss said he was putting his foot down on all of the overtime, and in particular, weekend time. one month later, our team was working 70-80 hour a week. we did this for 4 months straight. when we met our deadline, the boss had the project architect tell us what a great job we did and to take the next 2 days off. i was pissed. 2 days? and you couldn't even tell us yourself? while i had no expectation or desire for him to give us all of our time back, i was disappointed that he did nothing to stick by his word and even more so that he had the project architect tell us about our 2 days off.
i went to speak to him and express my displeasure in a calm, reasonable, and thoughtful manner. he asked, well what would you do if you were in my shoes? i said, well, i would give us our weekend time back since you went back on your word. he agreed, and we agreed to a schedule for the team to take the time off so that it would not compromise other projects. i thought that was an incredible thing that he did in the end.
i've got a couple of friends who work for gaming companies.. the article seems to be a pretty consistant theme across the profession..
they work crazy hours when they are pushing to meet a deadline.. it's just expected..
the good and bad is they honestly believe in having a great final product so they put in the time without thought.
Deadlines, Lowpay and Longhours = Architects
The 3D, and Gamers Make alot more money.
Its like playing Video games for Money.
Like everything else it is Supply and demand.
Alot of Vo Tech Schools are Teaching 3D
& are Flooding the Market.
Block this user
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