don't bring jimmy johns. thanks.

haha

Dude. Quit wasting people's time. If you have that rationale going out of architecture grad school, you sure had it going in (only a couple of years ago). You would have studied something else.

But even worse is getting in debt with student loans to sell architectural products. wtf. You didn't need a degree to do that - so sell s**t to pay a debt you didn't need and throw your career away? Go back to your desk and come up with something better if you want to do is provoke people with silly fabricated questions.

If the question is real then all one can say is - sorry.

Good eye....go for it man. You will be able to learn the industry, skip the cad monkey phase, and make more money while your at it. Most on this board are 100% design oriented where anything that's not pure architecture is not worthy but the sooner you realise (which it seems you do) that this is a business, the better off you will be. There will always be plenty of great designers but without any practical business experience nothing would ever be built..

Go for the money. Design is something that you can do as a hobby...business. not so much.

The question is real. I only started thinking about this a couple of weeks ago. I am keeping all of my options open - or is that stupid? The economy really started getting shitty when I got into grad school and I didn't have any feelings of regret about getting my masters (and I still don't). Within this past year the low pay started getting more and more real to me.

and from what I understand a degree in architecture is desired for this type of position.....AND I believe this a relevant subject since people are struggling to get jobs....dude

@cc14

Thanks for the positive feedback. I love design and if I don't end up becoming an architect, I still want to do some sort of design work on the side...(furniture for example).

I have the utmost respect for architects and I always will. I know the hard work thats put in and sometimes never getting recognized for it. I am just trying to weigh out the pros and cons for the different options I'm looking into. Thats why I'm asking this type of question on here. I still want to to have some sort of foot in the architecture realm.

GoodEye, the tricky part about that decision is that all arch graduates are facing a very bleak employment outlook and most of them will be forced to jump at any job opportunity that's even remotely related to design. Heck, even I tried to make a switch to a manufacturer's representative with no positive results. Competition is stiff.

Second problem is that architectural product manufacturers and suppliers aren't exactly shattering sales records either.

Good news is that these companies are trying to stay relevant by heavily promoting themselves through seminars and continuing education. They can always use help of a pink nosed graduate that has good people skills and willingness to learn (and willingness to start with a very low salary).

You can get a leg up by being very aggressive in your job search. There are thousands of companies of which each has its own website. You have to check each website's career section. Get to the posting before it reaches a wider audience. A site like 4specs.com has hundreds of manufacturers listed and would be a good place to start.

Good luck!

ps. once you become in charge of organizing office lunch-an-learns always order more veggie sammiches than what their HR person says. Some fat asshole inevitably eats half dozen of them in five minutes, leaving all the vegetarians in the office cranky for the rest of the day. This used to happen all the time. In multiple firms.

GoodEye, hey mate, there's definitely nothing wrong with this career path - studying architecture [and university in general] is more about learning how to learn, and how to research and innovate. In which ever career you undertake, these skills gained in university will inevitably become useful.

'Architectural sales representative' could you explain a little more about this role? Is it on par with selling 'products' in general e.g. electronics, shoes etc? I ask because if it is a straightforward "employer has a product, I promote this product, client buys it, I get paid" situation then why do they get paid more, and what kind of long term career development can this lead to?

as rs and own note, you better do some research as to the 'real' current state of affairs. These guys could be pure commission and with the way the economy has been, that's basically unemployed.

I really have no idea, but can't see how someone that sells to the construction industries can be doing anything right now (maybe things are changing....maybe)



Good luck, either way.

I kind of second bakema's point.

I think you are setting your sights pretty low. Architectural sales, i.e. sales repping building products to architects, needs only minimal application of the education you now have. I know of one case where an arch grad have gone on to now be a commercial director of a manufacturer.

If there is some grand plan in which sales is the first part, you might have an answer. Otherwise, it might just be a slightly easier and more comfortable cage to spend some time - you might regret it later.

diabase:"I think you are setting your sights pretty low. Architectural sales, i.e. sales repping building products to architects, needs only minimal application of the education you now have."

It depends. If you are sales rep for toilet partition company it may be so. If you are working for one of the major roofing and waterproofing manufacturers, your technical knowledge of building systems, testing methods, quality control, contracts, etc... will have to be superb. Sales rep from Tnemec saved my ass on couple of occasions for instance. I worked on large projects where a technical issue would just stump all of the architects involved. It's nice to throw that question at an industry professional that can show you a project where the same issue was successfully resolved.

I have nothing but tremendous respect for sales reps of all kinds. Each trade (say paint) contains so much technical information, it's nice to talk to an expert.

ps. As a spec writer I may be biased
pss Sales reps will openly lie about their competitor's products. Use critical thinking skills to proceed.

Yeah, but thats it really. Offering specialist advice is part of the job description. They might be butt savers, and in construction they will form a crucial part of the job, but thats the upper limit.

I am not anti this move, I am just suggesting that there might be a more creative solution than this.

fair enough diabase. but...

"I know of one case where an arch grad have gone on to now be a commercial director of a manufacturer."

that's not an opportunity given to you right out of school. To get to that level you may take a number of different paths. Going into sales is by no means a death sentence. All kinds of opportunities* will will present themselves to you if you are good at what you do.

*offer not valid in times of recession. Learn to hibernate.

The very few sales reps I have ever worked with that have design skill as well as technical know-how have been exceptionally helpful. If this is something you really want to go into, you could really be bringing a great asset to the field. At my old firm we routinely paid a bit more to buy light fixtures from a rep who was amazing at picking out fixtures & knew the biz & the technology literally backwards and forwards. Those kinds of people are RARE in the rep biz (in my experience) and extremely valuable! We also went to a particular paint rep over and over again because he had an insanely good eye for color. You cannot imagine the difference this kind of talent can make in the arch sales trade. So I would say, if you really think you'd enjoy it, by all means, go into the field! The key for me is that you say you are competitive & could enjoy a sales environment - I (and probably most architects I know) would hate that. It's a whole different ball-game than construction services - if you really think you'd enjoy it, great.

However, I would warn - as others have - that as far as I know, most reps work on commission (or on a low flat salary + commission); and most reps I know don't rake in the cash, even when times are good. I'm not convinced that it will lead to either a more stable or a significantly more lucrative profession than architecture - although do your research, you may be right; I'm an arch not a sales rep so what do I know. I do know that at least one of the two aforementioned excellent reps I love is not doing so well business-wise nowadays.

One alternative thought: have you ever thought of doing in-house design sales for a manufacturor? For example: kitchen design for a large cabinet company, window design for Marvin, etc. These big companies hire designers too. Most kitchen companies will aggressively sell their "design" services to clients and lots of people buy them.

I took a job as an in-house design/sales consultant right after graduation because I needed a job and no firms were hiring. I did it for about 7-8 months until I got a job at an architecture firm. In my opinion, working in sales was kind of fun, and getting a base + commission was not all that bad. There's definitely an adrenaline rush to closing a big sale. I too am thinking of going back to sales in a couple years time because 1) I hate doing cad all day, 2) I know I will earn at least 20-30k more than what I am earning now. The downside is that you will be working with other architects/designers on a daily basis and you will miss being on the other end.

thank you all for the responses so far. I will use this information in evaluating my plans/goals and proceed.

@2scale

In a little more detail, what exactly does an in-house/sales consultant do? When did you graduate? While in grad school, I actually have a sales job right now at a middle-high end clothing store and I know it feels good to get a big sale. However, i don't even get commission :(. I can only imagine what its like in the architecture industry with commission...And yeah I can def. see the down side too

First thing to ask yourself, do you like sales??? Do you like hustling, people slamming the door in your face, traveling, filling out invoices, working trade show, etc? If so, then go into sales. If you are going to go into sales, become a pharmaceticual rep

The other thing you may think about doing is getting a job with a retailer that has an architecture/design department. Many of these jobs will provide you with better job security, benifits, stock, etc...that is what I have done

GoodEye :: you're not selling out, you're being realistic. Don't put yourself down for admitting your line of thinking. I think you're on the right track but may be limiting yourself to the possibilities.

You have an M.arch (or soon will), that means you have a Bachelors. In what? I would say that you need to expand your thinking and look at the possibilities that you have that are not limited to architecture at all. Don't get me wrong, if architectural product sales is your passion and what you really want to do then go for it. But it isn't a cakewalk either, sales never is.

Parlay your experience prior to your Masters to expand your options. People with non arch related Bachelors degrees have a leg up in that they offer a more diverse skillset and way of thinking. Now if you have a B.arch then I would suggest looking for positions with real estate developers who are always looking to fill their in house arch. teams. You'd be surprised at what kind of company's look for architects (hospitality, retail brands, etc.)

A lot of students fail to realize that our instructors more often than not did not face our situation when they graduated. They were not faced with exorbitant student loans; plain and simply our generation faces a different challenge in that we have more debt to pay off right out of school. This is a problem that the previous generation did not face. We cannot afford to slum around a few years until we establish our own practices like a lot of the older generation. We have student loans to pay NOW. This is by no means a complaint or gripe but is simply...

Our new reality, and if we want to survive to practice architecture in some capacity (albeit on a smaller scale or later on when we can afford to), that sometimes means that we have to take on jobs that aren't related. There's no shame in that.

Keep your head up and start thinking differently, we all have to.

Bakema, let us know when you are struggling to make the monthly rent check. Each person has his/her calling and, if one's is to get into architectural sales, so be it.

You gotta do what you gotta do - there's certainly no shame in that.

However, it's probably worth noting that the longer you stay in sales - and the longer you enjoy the financial fruits that provides - the more challenging it will be to enter private practice, should you change your mind down the road.

Over the years, I've witnessed a number of cases where talented designers took alternate paths for a whole for purely economic reasons. When they ultimately decided to return to the profession, the experience gap and economic penalty involved made that return quite painful.

I agree with everything manta said. A good, knowledgeable sales rep (and in my experience those people often have a design degree background) is enormously helpful to designers.

GoodEye, if you think you would enjoy the sales environment as you stated above, you should go for it. But devote yourself not just to making the commission but to learning the field (whichever area you choose: lighting, tile, waterproofing, skylights, etc). in a way that is helpful to the customers you're working with. Your architectural background will aid you in this.

The bonus to this is once you become truly knowledgeable of your own and your competitors' area, you become exceptionally valuable not only to your customers but to your company's competitors - and sideways movement in sales can be very fruitful!

@GoodEye

There are actually quite a few possibilities that you won't learn about in school.

For example, commercial kitchens are often designed by specialists. They may or may not represent equipment manufacturers, (i.e. sell broilers and ovens) but they have specialized knowledge of kitchen requirements. The architect allots the space and the kitchen designer actually designs the kitchen.

The same is true for a lot of other areas - laboratories, manufacturing facilities, medical speciality facilities, etc. And manufacturers often have to put together detailed shop drawings of how their doors, windows, escalators, etc. are going to work in a specific installation.

So ... beyond 'sales rep' is another category of designer who starts with the architect's drawings, coordinates their trade with others' and solves the problems that the architect has no idea how to solve.

It would seem to be a good sign that you are looking at the commercial options. Find a niche, specialize, and get to be the best in that speciality....